Black pine seeds in sand

kuromatsuFebruary 1, 2010

A recent trip to Matsushima Bay in Japan left me wondering if it is possible to grow a Black Pine entirely in sand?

I appreciate something more coarse and porous such as Akadama is more suitable although the Black Pine is well known for being costal and surviving on very little at all. I decided to set up an experiment, some seeds in soil, some in pure sand. Suprisingly ones in sand seem to be much healthier..

In theory sand is a much cleaner substance therefore more likely to be free from infection. I've been finding I have to water very regularly because of the extreme drainage however over watering does not seem to be a problem and I should'nt get root rot - I hope! Watch this space.

Has anybody tried this before?

Here is a link that might be useful: Black Pine seeds in sand

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larke

I would think fertilization is very important in that case, but actually think sand would only be good for germination, not ongoing growth. I hope your sand has zero traces of salt (or anything else) in it.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2010 at 6:23PM
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head_cutter

Growing in pure sand shouldn't be a problem, I live in Vietnam and that's all there is here as far as 'soil'. All of my trees are tropicals (like everyone elses). The only changes I've made are (I found a place to get a more course sand down the coast a little out of town which I've been using more and (I began mixing some Basalt chips, 1/8 to 1/4" road paving material, into the mix to keep it a little looser.

I haven't seen a problem with salt so far so either the trees are tolerant or ...

Feeding is a problem. With zero organics in the mix I find that I (to have any growth at all) must feed at least twice a month. This is very evident in the potted trees and nursery stock here - these people don't feed at all or very little. After a few years the trees get to looking pretty bad.

Bob

    Bookmark   February 2, 2010 at 7:13PM
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tchoco

Sand for seeds is good until one year but after your will have some problems with fertilizing because sand can't retain nutrients. You will have to feeding and watering your tree very regularly! If you make a mame or shohin you have to watering your tree twice a day or more!

tchoco

    Bookmark   February 10, 2010 at 3:46PM
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head_cutter

I will also amend my post by saying that; in most temerate areas growing trees in pure sand isn't a good idea.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2010 at 8:37PM
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ryan_tree(7aVA)

Quick question, but do Japanese Black Pine seeds need cold stratification? Thanks!

    Bookmark   February 11, 2010 at 12:56AM
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kuromatsu

Ryan - Black pine seeds aren't dormant - they may germinate faster if given a pre-moist chilling according to the books.

I find personally it doesn't help though and just soak mine for three days prior.

My seedling in sand is going well by the way - stronger than others still!

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 3:07PM
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ryan_tree(7aVA)

You soak yours 3 days prior to planting? Is that necessary? I want to plant my seeds, but I'm unsure how long to soak the seeds. I'm not very familiar with Black Pines. Thanks!

    Bookmark   March 1, 2010 at 9:15PM
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kuromatsu

Soak for three days at room temp. This gives the seeds a false 'rainy' season.

Then plant them up using a matchstick.

Try mixing 10 - 20% spagnum moss chopped up into the compost or medium. This aids root development ;-)

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 5:31PM
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ryan_tree(7aVA)

Okay thank you! 3 days of scarification. I red somewhere that you need to cold stratify them, but I'm not going to since I was told it doesn't matter. And I just may try some in sand. Thanks!

    Bookmark   March 3, 2010 at 6:12AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

How many seeds do you have, Ryan?
I might suggest that you experiment with a couple germination techniques.

And, of course, make sure to update!

Josh

    Bookmark   March 3, 2010 at 9:44AM
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ryan_tree(7aVA)

Ah, I've only got like 6 seeds :(

    Bookmark   March 3, 2010 at 7:52PM
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