5-1-1 with Foliage Pro (yellow tip leaves)

nirmalk_pJuly 9, 2013

Hi All,

I planted this jasmine plant last year into a 5-1-1 in container. It has osmocote and I feed it with Dyna gro foliage pro. The tip of leaves are starting to show yellow. After a google search it seem like potassium deficiency but all other plants (mostly pepper) also get the same feed and they all look good. is this something to worry about? overall the plant looks.

Thanks in advance,
Nirmal

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bitzppa(11)

try some PK only as in Canna PK 13.14 or similar or maybe some lime could be a Ph issue they are my gut feels.

BZ

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 7:27AM
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nirmalk_p

thank you BZ. After some more search, It could be due to over watering? there was rain continuously last week. Either way I am thinking of waiting for a couple weeks before applying the fix you suggested.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 11:45AM
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bitzppa(11)

yes seems lots of rain can suck the nutes out of the mix I had a foot of rain over 2 weeks and my beets leaves went purple, so have been adding some PK and they are turning around back to their right colour. after then a bit of cal mag then back to normal fertilizing well that's the plan anyway :) hope the plants understand that :)

I don't think the PK is a waste of money from what I am seeing once plants start to fruit a once a week or so hit of PK seems to make them blow up bigger and faster.

let us know how you get on ?

BZ

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 1:01PM
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prestons_garden(9B SZ 22 HZ 6 SoCal)

nirmalk_p,

Your plant has suffered from too many nutrients being released from the Osmocote. This will happen when temps rise, a lot of moisture, rain or humidity. Try using Dynamite next time as it doesn't have a tendency to dump all at once.

Ron

    Bookmark   July 14, 2013 at 3:27PM
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nirmalk_p

Thank you Ron, will keep that in mind.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2013 at 3:47PM
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shazaam(NC 7B)

I'd be interested in seeing any research that demonstrates Osmocote's tendency to "dump all at once." The long-term study to which I've linked demonstrates just the opposite -- the researchers concluded that "Osmocote tended to have a more stable release pattern than the other fertilizer type." The study also included Nutricote, a Florikan product. If I'm not mistaken, Dynamite is Florikan fertilizer rebranded for retail sale.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nutrient Release from Controlled-release Fertilizers...

This post was edited by shazaam on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 11:18

    Bookmark   July 18, 2013 at 11:17AM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Yes the study shows osmocote is probably the best CRF around, and notes other studies that show the same. Good catch of false info Shazaam! I myself think the 5-1-1 mix is overrated obviously you can overwater any mix, if you know what you're using, you can grow anything is just about anything. It's the gardener that makes the biggest difference in results.
Also you need to know your plants. Since your other plants are not showing overwatering damage, I doubt that is the problem here. Since Jasmine should never be allowed to dry out, it loves being moist! If anything it could be under watering. My concern is it could be a virus. it doesn't look like a typical conditional response (fertilizer burn, over or under watering, or other response to any other stimuli). But I'm not that familiar with jasmine. Look on the underside any aphids? I myself recently added a jasmine. I love the smell of it. I ran across it in Jamaica, and the scent now reminds me of Jamaica.Mine is still rather small.

    Bookmark   July 24, 2013 at 10:28AM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

I'm pretty sure the 5-1-1 mix is under-rated...
often by folks who haven't even used it...or haven't made it/used it properly.

Josh

    Bookmark   July 24, 2013 at 1:41PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I have used it and it works good! But nothing is perfect for everything. I would not use it for cacti, although I could make it work with cacti, again the gardener's knowledge of what he has to work with makes a difference. I would be worried about the shallow rooted large cacti being stable in the light weight mix. But I doubt I could make it work for orchids.
Well some I'm sure would be fine, so many ways to care for orchids, depending on cultivar. It's good for this Jasmine, well less perlite and more peat and bark would be better for a plant that you never want to dry out, such as Jasmine. My only point was that despite the perfect soil you have to know what you are doing. Having good soil is only one step, many others need to be taken for results. I guess my biggest beef as it seems people think it will solve all their problems, which just isn't so. Some plants no matter what mix will die if you use straight tap water long enough, such as blueberry. So I keep seeing subject after subject of 5-1-1 failures, and the excuse it wasn't made right or used at all. Even in this thread. It is becoming quite the bore.
We can agree to disagree, as IMHO it is exactly like almost all potting soils, it basically is the same as high end potting soils. Even Miracle Grow is bark, peat and perlite w/ lime. The wheel was already invented dude.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Thu, Jul 25, 13 at 8:21

    Bookmark   July 24, 2013 at 11:08PM
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

I've got to tell you, Drew, I don't mind if we disagree, but I don't care for the 'dude' thing. Still, I'll offer a polite and thorough response.

I'd say that Miracle Grow is peat, bark, perlite, in order of volume respectively, which is important when we're talking about amending X with Y and Z. That's also common practice when listing ingredients by volume, from potting mixes to shampoos.

Drew, perhaps you aren't aware how many times the mix is made improperly, and then wrongly blamed. That's something I try to suss out when people have questions: are we actually talking about 5-1-1 mix...or are we talking about a hodge-podge that kinda looks like 5-1-1 if you squint and shake your head real fast. If someone makes a batch of 5-1-1, but decides at the last minute to add some extra peat because the mix just seemed to drain so quickly, well it's important to know that to offer advice. It's important to know if Lime was added...and very often it's not. Folks say, Oh I'll add it if there's a problem - then magically they don't see the results that others are seeing. Same with fertilization and watering...coming from a pre-fertilized peaty mix, watering and fertilizing practices need to change to get the full potential of the 5-1-1.

5-1-1 won't work for everything, of course not.
It happens to be perfect for my Dragon Fruit cactus and my Christmas Cacti, which absolutely thrive in bark-based mixes. Folks who've switched their holiday cacti into bark-based mixes have come back to spread the word. But dry Cacti would not do as well in a 5-1-1 - I would recommend no more than 25% screened bark in a dry cacti mix.

I only grow a couple orchids, but both are in a variant of 5-1-1 (scoria, instead of peat). If the bark is screened properly, *most* orchids will thrive in bark-based mixes. I also grow all of my Hoyas in bark-based mixes.

Josh

    Bookmark   July 25, 2013 at 4:42PM
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nirmalk_p

Thanks Shazaam, very good information.

Drew, I am not sure of virus but no aphids. I don't think it's under watering because I had never seen the plant wilt. I still don't know what caused yellow leaves but I am starting to doubt a week of continuous rain in early July has some part to play. The new leaves that are coming now are looking good.

I am not an expert but based on my experience on 5-1-1 mix, personally I don't think it's overrated. It might not solve all the problems but if made with correct bark size and proportion it is a very good medium. I had a friend made a 5-1-1 after reading the same instruction and both of ours looks so different. Actually I think it would be very hard to find two personâÂÂs 5-1-1 looking similar.

For plants that never want to dry out, I would think it's better to water frequently (and mulch) in 5-1-1 than to use a medium that would encourage higher perched water level. The jasmine I have is on exact 5-1-1 recipe and except for the yellow tips (now I doubt on rain) I have no complaint. Also as the plant grows larger more the water it needs per day, so I simply increase the pot size or water frequently instead of adding more peat and that has worked for me. In the past I have used commercial mix and I would never go back.

    Bookmark   July 25, 2013 at 11:32PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

Josh said:
"Drew, perhaps you aren't aware how many times the mix is made improperly, and then wrongly blamed"

You have a good point there. I guess my wording was bad, over rated isn't the best word. I plan on making some myself for next spring. i have made it before, but my bark source ran dry. I found a new supply at a local shop.

So how is the Jasmine doing? I recenly bought a night blooming Jasmine (actually a Jessamine). I didn't have any 5-1-1 so i used Happy Frog. Pretty good stuff. I put it in a new pot, and it seems to have already out grown it! I will transplant again, soon. I have to bring it in for the winter.
I think this plant is the most fragrant in the world. The flowers do have a super heavy scent. When i bring it in at night, it fills the house with scent.
Sorry for the long delay in replies, i have been out of town most of the time.

    Bookmark   August 28, 2013 at 3:27PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

I think the concept behind 511 mix is very good. It address' water drainage, retention and aeration very effectively. But I think it should not be taken as " One Size Fits All". As a gardener you should be able to adjust it to your plant types and the growing conditions. There are plants that are just for one season(garden annuals) , some don't mind wet feet some do. Climate is important, temperatures, rainfall, humidity, hours of sun ..etc. Just as an example: My growing conditions are generally cool summers, more rain, more shade, . So then 511 can be a good choice here. But I THINK it might not be the same, for example, in Southern Texas or Georgia.

So I take the 511 principle as a guideline and then adjust it to fit my situation better. I even think that it has room to be applicable in raised beds, especially when it comes to the role of pine fine barks. Raised be is just a bigger container, after all. So here is another possibility.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 11:16PM
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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

I pretty much use a 5-1-1 in my raised beds for blueberries.
Well more like a 2-1-1 no time release, I use an acidic organic like Hollytone or cottonseed meal. And three times during the summer hit it with a low dose of ammonium sulfate. No gypsum or lime (of course). But elemental sulfur.

Concering the Jassmine I mentioned in August:
I had to bring my jasmine in a few weeks ago. Trying to get it through the winter. here is what it looks like now, about 3 months later. I need to trim it down before I put it back outside. Even though in a south window, it's hard to give it enough light. Now in a much larger pot with Fafard's 52 mix, and pine straw as mulch. I did add time release, but only a little till spring. The 52 mix has no nutrients, so used a little to maintain plant. I really want to slow growth till spring.It's still flowering and filling the house with fragrance.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 0:05

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 11:56PM
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