What in the world is going on here!!!!

jaleeisa(6b Oklahoma)February 21, 2009

WARNING- Twitching RANT ahead!!!

I'm seriously wondering. We have yet another member stating, boldly, that they are charging extra postage for them to keep to send seeds supposedly in a SABE/BEAP post! Another member has already called them on it and I posted as well. This is really getting to be a rash of scamming, even if you state you scam up front! I'm really becoming disheartened and appalled at how many people see this place as somewhere they can just rip people off!!!! This guy is stating that he not only wants an extra stamp for him to KEEP for himself to facilitate other trades, but the number of stamps he wants is very excessive! 6 stamps for 6 packets of seed! You can stuff a LARGE BE for that, or mail a small box! I think it is very "ballsy", pardon the language, and way out of order here!

Has our country become so greedy? I know finances are rough for many people, myself included, right now, but come on folks, STOP fleecing your fellows! Isn't part of our purpose in life to make things better and brighter for others as well as ourselves? It's still pretty much theft, even if you state it up front, in my mind. I find it really difficult to be polite when it comes to theft.


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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

Hi Kathy,

I saw the post and replies...good job of explaining things.

I really think that members are not bothering to read and familiarize themselves with The Special Instructions for Exchanges. About all we can do is note violations in the thread, and/or maybe also report them via the Contact Us link found at the bottom of any page.

If they are 'left' on the forum, they are a good learning experience for those who are still learning the ropes...a perfect example of what 'not' to do.

Quit twitchin now GF. You had your say, so try and not let it bother you...easier said than done I know though.

Happy Saturday!


    Bookmark   February 21, 2009 at 11:31AM
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jaleeisa(6b Oklahoma)

Hey Sue!

Well, it seems that the powers that be got the post remove reasonably quickly this time. Ya know, it really made me see red for them to not only boldly state it, but then be asking for excessive postage as well!

Thanks for the kind words :) They are appreciated! Gonna go calm my twitching by playing with seeds!

Kathy~ Imagining how many packets of seeds it takes to get to almost 11 ounces!

    Bookmark   February 21, 2009 at 11:37AM
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and they be old seeds at that

what a pirate!

    Bookmark   February 21, 2009 at 1:50PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

You're welcome. Hope you are better by now.

Now it seems that there are some who are new or newer to the Exchange who are replying to older seeds for postage offers that have been closed for a while...sigh.

Guess ole rbb Sue will just close 'em again in big red letters and hope they are seen. I imagine it's discouraging when newer posts get bumped off page one by obsolete offers being replied to and bumped up....sigh.


    Bookmark   February 21, 2009 at 1:52PM
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I recently sent a bubble envelope with postage inside for SASBE, what I got back were crushed seeds in a regular envelope sent with one stamp postage. All that trouble to rip me off for stamps and my bubble envelope, sad.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2009 at 2:01PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

what I got back were crushed seeds in a regular envelope sent with one stamp postage.
Would you consider doing a review on the member, just stating the facts?...pleeze?

Rate and review Forum The forum instructions are at the top of the page, but the search box to be used is found just below the list of threads on page 1.


    Bookmark   February 21, 2009 at 2:47PM
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littleonefb(zone 5, MA)

I missed this one. Been a busy day. But real good question, what is going on with this?

Ah yes, posts from closed threads, clearly marked closed. Got one this week myself.

Seems that more and more people are suffering from deficiencies in reading comprehension these days.

I too, am beginning to think that no one is reading the instructions either.

Keep seeing more and more posts wanting free seeds and nothing to trade, begging for free seeds and nothing to trade.

Rules are not to do that, but rather post to SASBE/BEAP offers only and there sure are plenty of them to post to.

Gunnysack, please do post rate and review for this member and just state the facts, and Please, Please, Please do it.

Only way any of us will know what is going on and who the member is.


    Bookmark   February 21, 2009 at 8:56PM
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gardenmom2(IN Zone 6)

Could one of you maybe post about this and link this thread on the thread to newby's about trading. I think the more you explain and point things out the better it will help us new folks out. I saw the post and almost replied to it just to state the same thing doris did. That I did not think we did that here. Then he made the comments that others are keeping stamps and just not stating it. That did concern me. I know that the people I have traded with so far are many of you main folks that everyone on here knows and trusts, which is why it made me feel ok to trade with, but I did wonder if there was a way to post and kinda start watching a little if peopleare doing it and warn new people to watch for it, too. That seems to be the target.

About the rash of people asking for free seeds, it is bad all of a sudden. I would never do such a thing. There are offers posted that yes, I have rece'd free seeds, but they were offered and not asked for. If the rules state that they are not to be asking for seeds for free, I as a new person, would like to see these deleted. I think the more we defend this wonerful trading and exchange site the more we can keep it the way it was meant to be. Otherwise, people come in and take advantage of others, and try to rip off people that may not know better. I don't know that other new folks know to check the cnversation thread, I only do b/c Sue was so nice to tell me about it. So thanks sue. Thanks everyone for all you do for this site. I want to help, too. I feel like we have to really defend the rules here.


    Bookmark   February 22, 2009 at 8:30AM
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"...... others are keeping stamps and just not stating it."

This is a lie. NOBODY asks for stamps to keep. If people werent using all the stamps they got, there would be many many many many complaints.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2009 at 10:47AM
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I missed this new one also. Was this a new member?

I too have noticed a whole lot of new people asking for free seeds. I don't get this either. It seems like every other thread is for people offering seeds for postage and a quarter of the threads are started asking for free seeds. That leaves a small percentage left for trades! What we are here to do in the first place!

It is almost as if someone is telling these people to come to this forum, tell them you are new and you will receive seeds for postage.


    Bookmark   February 22, 2009 at 5:41PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

It is almost as if someone is telling these people to come to this forum, tell them you are new and you will receive seeds for postage.
Yes Sharon, (LOL...notice I did not call you Scott this time?) it does seem like there are a lot recently, and like only about 1/4 of page one is getting trade space.

Last year about this time there was an article on Mother Earth News, and there was in influx of new members, a lot of whom missed seeing the forum instructions.
Mother Earth News blurb March of 2008.

I have an idea and would like everyone's opinion.

What does anyone think about a thread being put on the Exchange page, that we can try and keep bumped up, with some sort of a Heading like New to the Exchange here? Nothing to trade?

and then go on to explain how to look for and respond to the seeds for postage offers, yada, yada, yada, requirements, etc.
I could also include how to set up one's email link
How to list seeds either available, or just wanted on their Member Trade Page.

hmmm...I'm leaning more and more to wanting a Forum just for Seeds for Postage offers

What does anyone think of that?
Members could post what they have to offer and the requirements (newbie, or anyone).
Newbies or anyone could then reply to it.

Forum Instructions could include something like...This forum is for members to offer up their excess seeds to other members. Please read the requirements of the offer and the replies to see if you are eligible and that the offer is still available.
Please do not post that you are looking for seeds.
If you are looking for certain seed(s), and have seeds to trade, please see The Seed Exchange

What I often see too, is that a member will make a postage offer for say 3 newbies. Then after 3 members have posted, folks still keep replying to it. Often the person who made the original offer is not even getting the follow-up emails, so they are clueless that folks have continued to reply to it.
More and more folks reply to it.

After 3 members post to it, and then another comes along and revives the thread, I am tempted to use my big red letters and quote that the offer was for 3 members and the offer is 'now' closed. I have not done it yet, not wanting to be too pushy, but I have done it after a thread has been posted to that was closed...as in "I will take replies until Jan30th", or "This offer is now closed."
It seems like anything less than big red letters just is not noticed and read...sigh

Sue...rbb and loquacious as usual

How to make bold, italics and colors

    Bookmark   February 22, 2009 at 6:37PM
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gardenmom2(IN Zone 6)

Sue, I like both ideas. As a newby, I havebeen thinking about this all day. My idea in the shower this morning (call me crazy LOL) was that a thread should be made like you stated. Something else to include would be how to go about geting few seeds to start to trade. For example:
They can go to Walmart and buy packs for $1. Many of these hve many seeds so the person could keep half and offer half as 1 trade item. If they only purchased $5 which is not bad for starting out, they would then have about 5 trades, maybe more. Then if they trade, they are liable to end up with more. Between that and getting the Free seed offers they would be good to go in very short order. I would also love to see a thread of seed bargains. If a catalog or storefront is having a sale this week, like Fran had mentioned Kmart had Burpee and Martha Stewart seeds 40% off this last week, then we make mention of it. I realize money is tight,but some peope are being flat out rude. I love everyone here and have made many new friends, people are generous, but to EXPECT things for nothing, is just wrong. What a country we are becoming. OK anyway, I get fired up about things like this. I was thinking about this though. I know people are tight on funds right now. But I don't think it is too much to ask for them. I really like the idea for the freebie forum, too. Also, in your newby info post, you might warn them or guide them to trade with someone established first. I am really afraid of people who are new getting into a situaion and sending off seeds they need and or postage, who did not have the money to lose. I hate for people to get taken advantage of. I just think that if they can do a couple with those established "enablers" LOL that tey will learn the right way to do things and be able to spot some of the more shady goings on so they are not taken advantage of. I know for me it was that way. You helped me and so did several ohers so that I was able to spot a couple odd ball offers or requests and just ignored them.

Sorry this is so long. Just some of my random thoughts.
Thanks for looking out for us newby's.


    Bookmark   February 22, 2009 at 9:28PM
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Ah-ha! I KNEW I seen all this info somewhere! I made a thread about folks bringing up very old posts and knocking off all the current trade posts. I felt weird "bumping" my posts back up, but they were getting knocked off the front page with old posts very quickly.

Sue - I think your ideas are great. Having a forum just for SASBE's would be the perfect solution. Just my $0.02 :-)


    Bookmark   February 22, 2009 at 10:50PM
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littleonefb(zone 5, MA)

HMMM. forum for just SASBE seeds. I'm thinking about it BUT,

Not sure I'm fully on board with the idea.

Playing devil's advocate here and "some experience" in trading, been doing it since july 2003.

If we split the forums up into seed exchange only and SASBE/BEAP only, is see some problems or at least some potential problems.
Problems may not be the best word, but possibly more confusion than we already have; and, trying to be polite here, we have enough confusion already and don't need any more added to it.

What I see is this.

Most, if not all of us post a trade list and either mark our seeds with SASBE after the seed or separate lists my posting something like These seeds for trade only.

My trade list is clearly marked that way, but it never fails that when I post SASBE/BEAP offers or Trades or SASBE/BEAP and clearly state that I am really only looking for trades on my want list. Glad to look at your trade page though as there may be something on it that I forgot to put on my want list, I get members wanting my trade seeds only as well as SASBE seeds.

So if we where to split the forums, how would we list the seeds?

Don't know about others, but often I look at SASBE/BEAP offers to see if there is anything there that I want from my want list or the member has seeds on a trade list that I would want and I have something they want as well.

If we have 2 different forums, that would mean looking at 2 different forums to check on seeds.

That could make for even more confusion for both newbies and oldies as well.

I also think that people will ignore the SASBE/BEAP forum more often than not. Just may be the nature of people.

Back in the old days, when the infamous Spike owned GW, (no Sue don't pick on me about Spike, I agree people got very very dizzy on their travels to Disney, me included), there was one thing he did fairly well. He kept the rules of the forums links working well, deleted the begging posts, and sent GW e-mails to those that did about breaking the rules.

Now we have too many links that don't work and I wonder how many people, newbies, ignore the post we have going about the instructions about seed trading because they are posted by a member and not GW itself.

GW isn't monitoring the seed exchange very well, and most of those begging posts, want seeds for postage posts are not deleted.

We, as members, can post to them about the rules, but I don't know how many actually listen to what is posted. We also have far too many members both new and old that respond to them with offers of seeds.

As long as members just respond to the "beggars" it will continue. I've seen threads started with want seeds for postage, nothing to trade and members respond with seeds, then a member posts about the rules and that post is ignored.

I honestly think it would be far better to somehow get GW to respond to the beggar posts and delete them, than to add a forum just for SASBE/BEAP seeds.

It just seems to me that too many people are coming on as newbies and are not interested in reading any rules of the forum, no matter where they are posted, and I don't understand that.

Could it be that I'm "old"? Not in my 20's, 30's, 40's, but rather in my late 50's and I think of rules and finding out how the forum works before getting involvoed?

I remember when I first joined GW and was reading on the different garden forums. Before doing anything or posting, I read the rules of GW, the rules of each of the forums and carefully followed them and how things worked on the different forums.

If he case is that people just don't bother to read, or don't care to read, or just ignore the rules on the seed exchange because they are posted by a member, then I don't think it will matter if we have separate forums for trades and SASBE/BEAP seeds and plants.

I'm afraid that when you add the forum like this it will just create further confusion and Lord knows, we have enough of that.


    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 1:29AM
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What Fran Said.


    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 10:10AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

Whew...lots of food for thought above. I'll chew on all that and reply to a lot of it later...some great points as usual Fran!

I am composing a post that I spoke about...one that we can all try and keep bumped up on page one.

Subject line will be:
No Seeds to Trade? Starting out? Starting over? New?
I'll start a thread over here to discuss it prolly before posting it to the actual Trade (Discussion) side.

In the meantime, lets all try and keep the Special Instructions for the Exchange bumped up to the top 1/2 of page one so it will best be noticed. I don't think it is seen/noticed nearly as well if it is at the bottom of the page...and certainly not seen or noticed at all if it has dropped to page 2 or farther on back.

Bump, bump, bump...with every stop by the Seed Exchange.

Would it help if I redid the thread again, and instead just included the info links with minimal messages there, so the thread would load more quickly?


    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 11:17AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

I'll start twitchin!


    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 11:18AM
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SusanC(9b/10a Sunset 17)

I'm with Fran on this one. The begging posts really bother me, and I wouldn't want to encourage them. Also, like Fran, if someone offers an SASBE/BEAP offer on this forum, I often take a look at their trade list to see if we might make a trade. If there were a different forum for these offers, I wouldn't go there and so would miss seeing their list.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 12:46PM
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As Fran indicates, very often kind-hearted gardeners will respond to posts requesting seeds with offers to send some along. If you are reviewing the posts for examples of how to request seeds and solicitation is rewarded, it would be tempting to follow those examples. The rules may clearly state that you cannot do so, but we reward the proscribed behavior with free seeds. I have never been very good at deciphering mixed messages myself.
The conundrum I can't wrap my mind around is why every time I have offered seeds for postage to newbies, there are alway a few who never follow through. Apparently that is a common phenomena here. What's that about?

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 2:31PM
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gardenmom2(IN Zone 6)

I can't imagine being offered freebies and not taking advantage. Myself, I have accepted a few offers and mail it immediately. I want to do my own offer of freebies, but i only have so many extas and right now I am using them in my swaps. Eventualy I will have enough and can do an offer, but for now, I can't. I do know that I would state on the offer that if I don't receive the enve and stamps within 2 weeks that they go back up on the thread.

Just my two cents.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 3:59PM
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playintheyard(zn6 MA)

Hi all,
I'm new to seed collecting and trading. I think it's in bad taste to post for free seeds and not necessary as there are so many offers on the thread. I can understand being a little confused or even intimidated at first but the information or rules are stated here. Just reading thru the posts u should be able to get the idea.I don't think separate forums are necessary just some common sense.
As Nicole stated buying 1/2 price seeds at job lot or wherever is a good way to start. There are a couple of threads about seed sale here somewhere maybe on the ws thread. Think I'll start doing that. Build up a stash for trading.

As far as not following thru w/ a freebie offer I started writing everything down. It can get confusing and I would not want to appear ungrateful.
Well that being said I'd like to thank all for my SASE or BEAP offers and the RR I've joined. I have gotten tons of wonderful seeds from you guys to the point were I felt greedy and stopped responding to offers lol. My gardens are going to be gorgeous thanks to all of you!!


    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 12:23PM
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alwaysagarden(CA 9b)

Hi All,
Just did a SASBE or BEAP and helped quite a few newbies... now waiting to see who will follow through.
Feels great to be able to help out some newbies since I was one 5 months ago!
I agree with Fran as well. Several that emailed me weren't sure how to do an SASBE at all and I think another forum just as Fran said may just cause more confusion.
I had no qualms in putting up "this offer is now CLOSED" in red letters. I learned a few weeks ago how to change font size and colors from Sue. Thanks Sue! I got 2 more extra emails after that and nothing more since. I think red is the only way to go in closing an offer because I think many will just scroll quickly by everything typed in black, not reading it at all and thinking it is just another post.

Hoping Sue has stopped twitching.

Cindy : )

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 10:49AM
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I haven't seen the offending post. But I wouldn't give in to that even if he had every type of seed I was looking for specifically.

As it stands I have very limited indoor space for gardening and virtually none for outdoor. I also have a friend who is in a similar boat with space. He lives on the other side of town and isn't on the website (I did send him the link though). I suggested that we share the cost of postage and bubble envelopes and split the seeds that come in. Whatever neither of us can use we post for others.

It seemed like a good, fair, and easy way to reduce the cost for both of us who have such limited space. Especially since everything I've read indicates that I can anticipate receiving a larger quantity of seeds than what I will use.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.


    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 5:14PM
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