Att. SUE

wenders67(5)March 7, 2009

I'm getting soooo many envies with just a thank you-no idea of what they are asking for and alot of seeds who I have no idea of where they came from,I'm still going through emails-and have had 5or6 that weren't wrapped at all,just crushed and from the ones that I can figure out who they came from ,I still owe them,someone has to let people know about the fragility of seeds,I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one who has brought this to your att. If you want-I'll post it-the jon meier was one-only 1 stamp,but he's not the only one-Anyway-let me know what you think.Wend

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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

Hi Wenders67,

First off, I'm sure there are much better qualified folks to address your many problems than I am, so I hope others will share their input with what works best and what has not worked in doing a lot of trades and/or seeds for postage offers (BEAP) as you do.

Fran, Jim_b, Bakemom, other big time traders and/or big time offerers of seeds for postage...weigh in here please.

Here is my 2¢ though, for what it is worth. I have never been in your situation as I do just a few transactions at a time, as I easily get overwhelmed and could easily lose track, as you have....not a good feeling. Trading and/or sharing is supposed to be fun, and not a hassle or a nightmare.

1...I would remove my name and address from your Member Page and from your Trade Page. That 'might' stop part of the problems of folks mailing you without there having been any 'instructions' from you.
2...and have had 5or6 that weren't wrapped at all,just crushed
There has been a LOT of discussion over the years about alternative packing to avoid the use of a bubble envy and 83 cents postage. While you and I and other 'veterans' know that some very tiny seeds 'might' travel ok with alternative packing and still kept under 1/4" (thus 42 cent stamp), newbies (new to GW or just new to the Seed Ex) cannot know just what all seeds will travel ok that way. That is why I, and so many others, have demanded that bubble envelopes ONLY be used for trading seeds. It is just best (imho) and simplest to get newbies on board right off the bat by requiring that ALL seed transactions require the use of bubble envelopes.

3-I'm getting soooo many envies with just a thank you-no idea of what they are asking for
Well I see you had a recent offer of datura seeds for postage. That was all there was in the offer. Maybe just send them some datura seeds, and note that the seeds and all parts of the plant are poisonous. Tell them you were clueless as to who they were and what they wanted....or you could do #6 below.

4-If anyone only sent you one stamp, there is not much you can do, unless you send them a snail mail note in a regular envy...the note explaining things....maybe something like

I am Wenders67 from GW. I received this one stamp from you. I have no idea what your Garden Web name is or what the stamp is for. If you were responding to a seeds for postage offer, you will need to send me a bubble envelope for returning your seeds. It will cost 83 cents to mail the empty BUBBLE envelope to me, and at least that much, or more to return it to you with seeds in it. Whenever emailing or mailing anyone anything, always be sure to include your Garden Web name. When responding to a seeds for postage offer, Always include your Garden Web Name, and a short note of what seeds you are getting from me...or you could do #6 below.

5-If you do know the GW member's names that sent crushed seeds, I would email them, explaining that bubble envelopes are necessary for trading as the seeds they sent you were crushed. I would not worry about sending my end of the trade until they resent the seeds with proper packaging.
They will 'learn' by being required to do it right. They may have to go and buy a bubble envelope, but hey...that's a good and very necessary thing. If they do not resolve the issue, just leave a review for them at The Rate and Review Forum just stating the facts.

6...What I would do in your situation, with those that you are clueless about who they are, so you can't address the situation with them, is start a post over on the Conversation side with a subject line of Attn-my traders and those getting seeds for postage

I would then make a detailed list of each and every one there and what the situation was. I would include in the list, the first name only along with the city and state. Do not, I repeat, do not post both the first and last names. Providing too much information (tmi) often will result in the post getting pulled and your time spent posting it will then have been wasted.

Just state the details like...
1-Sue from CO-you sent me one stamp. What is that for? Seeds cannot be mailed for just one stamp, as they require a bubble envelope which requires extra postage. I sent you a letter (and used your stamp) explaining this. Please email me if you want to try again to be a part of my seeds for postage offer. Be sure to include your GW name in the email, and let me know what you are emailing me in response to
2-Sue from KY-I received seeds (name what they were here)from you and they had no padding and were crushed. Seeds MUST be mailed in Bubble Envelopes! Please email me. Be sure to include your GW name in the email, and let me know what you are emailing me in response to
3-Sue from NY-I received a bubble envy from you and a thank you note, but I do not know what it is for since there was no note, or garden web name. Please email me. Be sure to include your GW name in the email, and let me know what you are emailing me in response to

etc, etc, get the idea.

If anyone then emails you later asking about the seeds you were to have sent them, ask them to read the list on your thread to see if they can tell what the problem may have been.

I hate, hate, hate to see the use of sase, or sasbe. It is not a self addressed stamped envelope. It is not a self addressed stamped bubble envelope. No where is the member to be putting their own (self) address on an envelope, except in a few very very rare cases like Trudi's tomato seeds offer.

If more, or everyone would stop using the terms sase, or sasbe, and instead call them BEAP- ie Bubble envelope and postage offers or Seeds for postage offers, there would be a lot less confusion. I see that some (a very few) are now using the term BEAP as opposed to the more confusing terms. BEAP says it all...Bubble Envelope and postage!.

sase-sasbe is NOT a self addressed envelope-bubble or otherwise

There has been some great discussion lately over on the Conversation side discussing such things as you are experiencing and the ways that members have chosen to handle them. See thread with the title Frustrated!!!!.

I think there might be other threads too, about reading comprehension skills, and folks not being able to follow the simplest of instructions in order to take advantage of the generous seeds for postage offers they have responded to.

Don't make yourself nuts over this.

I'm going to ask that GW move this over to the Conversation side, since it is not a trade post. If left here, it might drop off page one in a day or less, where it will stick around a lot longer, and get more rants replies/discussion on the other side.

As George Carlin (RIP) said, "Don't pet the sweaty stuff."

I look forward to reading everyone's input.


Can anyone believe I wrote this on just one cup of day old coffee? Whoo-Hoo...the fresh pot just quit running through.

Anyone still awake?

Sue...loquacious (wordy) as usual

    Bookmark   March 7, 2009 at 7:02AM
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alwaysagarden(CA 9b)

Wow... you must be tired after all that!
You may be wordy, but you always get your point accross very clearly.

In doing my last BEAP offer I also recieved 2 white envelopes with postage inside. At least they sent the correct amount of postage but no bubble envy as I had requested. I of course used my own bubble envy's to return their seeds. I have a few extra. I do have to say 80% didn't have a list of what seeds I was to send them though so had to go through alot of emails in order to figure that one out. Seems common sense to send a list of what you have asked for.
I've had only one recent trade where a gal (who wasn't a newbie either), send her part of the trade in a plain white letter envelope (one .42 cent stamp on it) with no cushioning at all inside! The two packets of seeds were in a folded piece of paper. I was a little shocked. Well those seeds were pretty tough because they came through fine. I was lucky there. I've recieved several other seed trades in white letter envelopes with bubble envy cut up to cushion seeds and they came through great, never one problem.
I'm so sorry you've had such bad luck with those responding to your BEAP offer. I think some newbies are just so excited to get some seeds they don't take the time to read and follow through with directions. Some may just send what looks right to them.

I too would like to hear from bakemom, littleone, quiltingfox, did BEAPs with all of them. Wonderful ladies.

Cindy : )

    Bookmark   March 7, 2009 at 8:16AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

Thanks Cindy,

I do have to say 80% didn't have a list of what seeds I was to send them though so had to go through alot of emails in order to figure that one out.
Did you ask them to mail you a list? If not, I would not think, or assume that anyone would do anything that was not asked of them. Anyone who has not juggled more than just a couple (2-3) transactions at a time, just do not understand how important it is to enclose a note with their GW name, and a note listing what had been offered.
Now, if I had asked for a list, and they did not send one, I would not be nearly as nice as you. I would just send them some choice along with a note that you didn't know what they had wanted since they had not enclosed a list as agreed to. That'll learn 'em!

I've recieved several other seed trades in white letter envelopes with bubble envy cut up to cushion seeds and they came through great, never one problem.
I too have received a few and that is fine. I would never accept a part of a bubblie for a BEAP though, as it would not cushion very many packets of seeds. Sometimes too, people think if they use a part of a bubble in a plain white envy, that they are saving postage by just putting a 42 cent stamp on it. Well, putting a cut up bubblie in regular white envy cannot go for 42cents, as it is too thick (over 1/4") so must go for 83cents....if the PO is charging correctly....but we won't get into that this AM.

Sue...over and outta here.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2009 at 8:56AM
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jaleeisa(6b Oklahoma)

I have gotten into the habit of having them send me a list, if it's not a 'my choice' type BEAP. It's so much easier than having to dig back through several emails. I do the same when I respond to a BEAP offer... and any trade. A list of what I'm sending as well as a list of what I'm looking forward to receiving from them. At least in a trade, I take care of the recap and that list myself. When I'm offering a BEAP, I stress to them that if I have the list in front of me with their BE when it arrives, I can generally get their seeds packed up and back in the mail by the next day.

As much as I hate to say it, I have to use 'rules' when I make an offer:

1. Post here (so I can determine who was 1st, 2nd, etc)
2. Email me, including your GW ID in the email (so I know who I'm dealing with)
3. Use a Bubble Mailer (if it's just a BEAP offer where they can choose, depending on the number of choices they make, I may specify a BE size)


In the course of the emails with them, I may find other seed that is on their wants list that I don't have offered in the post, so I may offer it. Or they may have something I'm interested in and we'll turn it into a trade, even if it's an uneven one. As long as we're both happy, right? :)
If it's a seriously uneven trade, with the bulk going out on my side and I feel it may need some extra postage to mail to them (though I can sure stuff a lot of seeds in a BE for .84!) there have been a few where I'm sending them a lot of bulky veggie seed (from a BEAP offer)and asking for some marigolds that I don't have in return, so I'll ask them to include an extra stamp. And I'm more than happy to do the same if the trade is seriously uneven on their side too! That stamp is either used on their return package or it is returned to them in their BE.

Sorry, got a little off track.

The main thing is, I enjoy being generous, but this is suppose to be for my enjoyment as well as for theirs. If they don't use a BE, I will email them and make sure they understand that I'm not sending the seed, especially the larger, more bulky (any thus, more easily crushed) ones without padding. And if they come to me that way and are crushed, then I let them know and expect that they will make it right and use a BE this time.

Wendy, I agree about taking your name and address off of your trade page, hon. Because several of those that are mailing you have probably not done so from an actual offer you've made, but rather just "cold mailing" you. That makes it really difficult to keep up with things. And I'd set some rules for the exchange-whether it's from an offer you've made or a trade you're working. I understand some folks wanting to go more green- like Trudi. But Trudi is very experienced in making sure those seeds are well cushioned and will arrive in viable shape.

I've also received seeds from some of the more experienced traders in a plain envelope. And I do send some that way for the Birthday Card swap I'm in. However, I always literally wrap those seeds in bubble wrap and make sure they are secured to the middle card so that they can't shift. Though I do use a BE if they are the more bulky seed.

It's the time of year when we are getting an influx of newbies, and we have to teach them to be good traders. Sue's suggestion of listing their first name and state is a great idea. Hopefully you'll be able to get it sorted out, Wendy. If it becomes stressful, then something needs to change and change quickly. *BIG HUGS*

Hehe... how about this, Sue? And I haven't even had my first cup of coffee yet! Thought my son was gonna make it for me, but he's watching some movie :( So I've gotta go do it myself.


    Bookmark   March 7, 2009 at 9:57AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

How about this for a BEAP instruction.

When mailing me your bubble envelope and postage, please include your GW name, a mailing label, and a list of seeds I have agreed to send you.

Failure to send either your GW name OR the list, will result in me sending you one pack of seeds which will be my choice.

That oughtta fix 'em.

Great reply Kathy, especially considering you did it without even your first cup.

Sue....really outta here now.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2009 at 10:07AM
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bakemom_gw(z6 Central Ohio)

Pour yourself a drink. Bang your head on your desk. When you stop it feels good.

Here's what I do: I do use the term SASBE b/c I have been doing it for so long and for the most part, everyone seems to understand what to do. HOWEVER, there are people who do not. I am fortunate that I have donors who have sent me packs of bubble mailers and pages of stamps. How great is that? If a noob messes up, it's no big deal. In fact, I am offering just a label and four stamps mailer and I provide the bubble envie. Clear out my file cabinets.

I have ONE offer. It is my choice. They are pre-packaged. If someone specifically wants veggies, they must include a note, otherwise it's a crap shoot.

Doesn't matter who they are and what they want - they get what I send them. And, it's all good.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2009 at 1:34PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

I said in a post above to include in the instructions:
Failure to send either your GW name OR the list, will result in me sending you one pack of seeds which will be my choice.

Does anyone see anything wrong with that? Oftentimes folks respond to an seeds for postage offer and it is for just one particular variety of seeds. If you stated it up front with the instructions, there should be no problem, should there?

Bakemom...I understand that sase and sasbe has always worked for the most part before...I just don't understand why it now seems to confuse so many. There is frequently a post on Conversations, or here on Discussions, or someone emailing me with questions about what it means...sigh.

You seem to have it down pat with your offering...for the very least amount of headaches.


    Bookmark   March 7, 2009 at 2:19PM
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OK, year 6 for me and though I've been using SASBE for all this time, when I send out the info directly to a member

Please send me a, and I specify the bubble envelope size based on the number of seed packets that where requested,

a return address label with your name and address on it.

a list of the seeds I am sending you with your GW name and your real name on it.

The number of postage stamps required, I have a digital postal scale and weigh everything so I know the postage.

I will reuse the mailer to send your seeds in.

Then I add this.

Just address the bubble envelope to me, put everything inside that I asked for, tape it up and mail it to me. THERE IS NO NEED TO PUT THE BUBBLE ENVELOPE INSIDE ANOTHER ENVELOPE TO MAIL IT TO ME.

Sounds simple enough to understand, yet I have still gotten several mailers inside a second envelope.

I agree with Sue that BEAP is a far better term to use, but SASBE has been used now for so long now that I think using BEAP alone may be confusing.

I'm going to change my listings to start using it this way now BEAP/SASBE for the rest of this year. Next year it will be only BEAP.

I'm going to do some changes to the rules that I set up when I post for trades and I will post a thread with them.

The only problem with setting rules is this. There will always be some that will jut ignore them no matter what we do, and we have to stick to the rules that we set up and follow through with them.
That will be the only way to be sure that members begin to realize that the rules of the forum and what other members set up for their offers really mean something.

Oh, yes, get that address off your member page. not a good idea to have that kind of information open and available on any forum.


    Bookmark   March 7, 2009 at 2:39PM
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I agree with Sue. Check out the Frustrated thread. I let everyone know that I will not accept regular white envelopes.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2009 at 4:42PM
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Hi, wenders67... Our trade must have been forgotten in your confusion. =( (I'm not one of your freebie offers.)

I sent you Gold Crop Beans, in a bubble envelope. (No newbie mistakes here!)

You said you would send me; Wild Raspberries, Common Pink Honeysuckle, and Eggplant. You also offered Rhubarb. (Because you saw it on my want list.)

But you haven't sent your part of the trade. As I said, you must have forgotten.

It's been over a month now.

I sent you an e-mail a few days ago..

To which you still haven't responded.

Would you please let me know what's going on?

    Bookmark   March 14, 2009 at 12:48AM
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You might want to start a separate thread with your questions for wenders67.

You will have a better chance of her seeing the above post if it is a separate post.

Hope all is well with wenders67. Please let us know what you find out.


    Bookmark   March 14, 2009 at 6:02PM
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