vent: bubble envelopes are a must (for me)

ollieroseNovember 23, 2009

I'm pretty near the point where I don't want to trade with anyone unless I've traded with them before.

Before I get started, please donÂt highjack my thread to get into the whole cost of mailing bubble envelopes. There are enough threads like that out there and itÂs beside the point regarding my own post. I mail most all seeds in bubble envelopes with two stamps  even up to 20 packs sometimes. I mail directly from my home or office mailbox and have only had one issue where someone received seeds with postage due. This person took it up with their PO after I mentioned that one pack of seeds (zinnias I believe) should not take more than two stamps and if so, theyÂd be better off buying them at a retail store. I know that many GW members donÂt have a lot of money to spend, but that doesnÂt give anyone the right to send seeds to someone in a manner they donÂt want them mailed.

Now, back to the point of the matterÂ.

I've received seeds from recent trades lately in regular business envelopes and it burns me to no end! IÂm kind enough to always use a bubble envelope and do expect the same in return. I even have it posted at the top of my exchange page that I donÂt trade without bubble envelopes.

Now I know that some feel itÂs okay to send tiny, dusty seeds in a regular business envelope and that may very well be true. The point I take issue with is that I specifically state that I only use bubble envelopes and people are obviously overlooking that because they want whatever seeds I have and figure that by the time I get the envelope in the mail that it doesnÂt matter. Why do I (or anyone else that feels the same way I do) deserve to be disrespected in this way? If you donÂt want to use a bubble envelope, fine. I wonÂt force you, nor can I force you. However, I should have the option to not trade with you.

IÂm really tired of the old excuse  I was out of bubble envelopes and wanted to get the seeds out right away. If youÂre out of them, contact me (or whoever youÂre trading with) and give the option to have them now, wait until you do have a bubble envelope or even not trade with you. ItÂs quite obvious when I hear those words  itÂs just an excuse or way of smoothing things over because you know what you did was wrong!

Please donÂt even consider trading with me if you have no intention of using a bubble envelope!

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I received yet another regular envelope of seeds today. I guess I'll have to stop seed trading and think I will for at least a while. I'm pissed.

I will be completing any trades I'm in the middle of though.

Could some oldies please chime in and let me know if they are experiencing the same thing?

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 6:32PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

Hi Ollie,

I haven't been trading for some time, so I can't say I'm having problems. I will say though that your bubble envy info request could easily be overlooked on your Trade Page. Heck...I'm finding that a lot of folks cannot read simple instructions, or they don't understand, or a little of both, or they are just 'playing' stupid....I won't 'go there' though.

I just checked your Member Page. I see you know some HTML.
I would propose you ending any trade post you make by posting, "
I only trade using bubble envelopes, please don't proceed in a trade with me if you don't plan to do the same. NO EXCEPTIONS
As of November 24, 2009: I WILL post negatively to your R&R page if you don't use a bubble envelope.

There should then be no excuse for not seeing and following your instruction to mail in a bubblie.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 8:39PM
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Well I don't like to think of myself as an oldie but I am I guess. I've traded a lot and had many seed offers. In each I am very specific and detailed. The problem is people don't read. They see free seed and start emailing without reading your requirements. It happened to me the other day. The problem is you can't fix stupid! I've been collecting, packing and labeling seed for several months now and was going to have a free seed offer but I'm thinking twice about it. I've got 1200 packs of seed and was going to give 12 packs to 100 different people. Can you imagine all of the bs I'll have to deal with? Is it worth it?

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 8:53PM
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Hey Sue - I see the benefit of placing that in my posts, it's just still frustrating that I even have to do that. I guess I don't understand it. I lurked on GW for quite some time before I even did any trading, so I knew the from day one. Maybe I'm too anal and need to relax, huh!? LOL

Jim - You are so right. It would be nice to offer excess seeds to people that at least pretended they respected your time and effort.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that feels used.


    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 10:06PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

Hey Sue - I see the benefit of placing that in my posts, it's just still frustrating that I even have to do that. I guess I don't understand it.
It is just a fact of life that some people can follow instructions better than others. Some are more observant. Some 'care' more than others.

Over at the R and R, I try to get the multiple threads all directed toward the Original Review Thread, asking that future reviews be posted to the link to the Original Review Thread

Even putting it in big (+2) and in red, it is still missed by some and they continue to post to the 'wrong' thread.
I'd say we run about 35% to 50% of new members at Rate and Review getting it right the first time. The oversimplified instructions in the Forum Header don't help much at all, since there are 3 Search Boxes and only one will yield the results for that forum alone....sigh.

Sue...still packin.

Here is a link that might be useful: Not to highjack, but make Rate and Review your friend

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 11:22PM
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littleonefb(zone 5, MA)


I'll chime in as an "oldie". Been trading since 2003 and we've traded before several times.

I'm with you on the bubblie. When I do BEAP seeds I make it clear that I will only send seeds in a bubble envelope and if I don't receive one from you, I won't mail the seeds.

I've gotten too many crushed seeds as well and the excuses run the list a mile long. and of course there is no way to replace them, trader says they where the last of the seeds.

I was really reluctant to start adding rules to my trades and putting things in bold type and colors (thanks Sue for teaching me how to do it,),
In the beginning, back in the early days of trading, I didn't seem to have any problems, but in the past, I'd guess, 3 years, it's become a really huge problem and the rules have gone in.

I like Sue's' idea of stating right off the top that if the seeds arrive in a regular envie, I'll post negative RR.

It is discouraging to have to add these rules but it seems they are needed.

What really irks me though is, like Jim I have tons and tons of seeds and still packing them up for trades and BEAP offers, but the IRK comes from the ones that are set up for BEAP and then never send the bubblie and I'm holding these seeds.
I stopped that one with 2 weeks and if no bubblie, the seeds are gone.

Then there is the SUPER IRK, the bubblie arrives 2-3 months after the fact, and the seeds are gone, like I have no seeds. Let the member know and they get all pissed off.
Twice I've had them report me to GW and post a negative review, which I've countered with what happened and contacted tamara about the post.


one way to decrease the influx of bubblies for your offer is to limit it to 25 at a time. Once you have 25 people post to your offer and be sure to require everyone to post to the thread, you will not respond to cold e-mails. Then close the offer, get those taken care of and then start a new offer.


    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 12:16AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

I like Sue's' idea of stating right off the top that if the seeds arrive in a regular envie, I'll post negative RR.
Actually that is Ollie's wording that she has on her trade page. I just suggested it be put in the post
where one CANNOT miss it...evil laugh as medo always says.

Sue...still packin

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 12:38AM
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Ok, i'll chime in as an on the fence person, i was one of those who believed that you could do that in the regular envi's. but i tell you, i DO NOT SEND IN REGULAR ENVI!! IT IS AN AWEFUL IDEA!! i'm just to sorry to say that!! i have to agree with you 100% on that!! even with all that padding, you still get crushed seeds, i used to think "ohh well, i got 3 out of the 12 i'll still have some to plant" but now that i'm into this more and older with it, i expect more, and when i get crushed seeds, i get a distainful look and i'm like " ohhh don't tell me, they did not!!! these are old traders!!" some of these traders i have traded with several times!! and should know better!! my hubs even knows!! tabor is going to be a great trader when he gets started again, he knows, bubble only! and he's 13!! ummmm.....and a BOY!! **onery grin** LOL
yes!!! POST A NEGATIVE REVIEW!! i agree. if you have it on your page, then post that neg. review, you clearly have that marked! as Iris say's if you don't have the money to buy the bubbly, then wait for mine to show up and then send the seeds in my envi, so they have no excuse at all. heck, most people don't even send them out the time promised, it all boils down to money. IMHO believe me i know, i have to wait on a trade because i have to scrape up the change for that extra stamp!! ((Hmmm.....should start checking the couch LOL)) **grin** ~medo

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 2:43PM
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I did post a negative review for one and all I've gotten all day are defensive, crappy emails about it. First, no apology for the regular envelope; second, an insinuation that I wasn't mailing my end; third, an angry email because of the negative R&R; fourth, an insinuation that I had sent marigold seeds instead of zinnia; and fifth, no appreciation for the fact that I sent bonus packs. Grrrr! Some of these members around here are entirely too ungrateful and think we owe them more respect than they give us. I believe Kate has hit the nail on the head with her thread.

Diana.......fed up

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 4:10PM
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Hmmm.....marigold instead of zinnia?? ohhhh please!! there is a big difference if i can remember, but then again this is my first time trying to separate these. LOL
here's one, or you get regular envi with the same amount of postage that they'd pay, well more than if they'd send you a bubbly. that, i don't understand.

well, hows this for a rate, they sent their seeds on time, generous amount "if it was> it was out in a timely fashion "if it was> and she/he was a very nice person "if they were> the only problem that i had was that they didn't seem to read my very explicit instrucions in my trade page, IF YOU TRADE WITH ME how does that sound? it gives a good for what they did do, but the negative for what they also did bad. for the people who don't mind crushed seeds **big onery grin** ~medo
people only act like that (emails) when they know they are wrong!! take a deep breath and know that you are at a higher standard!! know that you are right!! and smile, because you know that you are a great person! they are just being very defensive for their wrongness, that was better for them than saying "i'm sorry" sometimes for some people that is the hardest thing to do!
i'm sorry that you have to feel that way and have to go thru that :'( ~medo

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 4:32PM
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The person I posted the negative R&R about just went to my R&R and posted a negative review. Was very dishonest in the post too.

Diana......beyond fed up

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 4:34PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

I saw that...not just once, but twice...the first review recommending you as a trader, and the second review seemed to be adding afterthoughts in his upset.

Just ask that GW pull the second review and I think they will with no problem. It doesn't make any sense that he changed his tune in a matter of just 19 minutes. There was no need for that second review.

Per the Forum Instructions:
Please be fair and consistent when rating another member's trade and do not engage in personal attacks.

That second review imho, does not meet those guidelines. It certainly sounded like a personal attack to me.

I emailed you with more thoughts on the matter. Try to not let it bother you...your wonderful reviews there certainly describe the kind of trader you are.

Sue's 2 cents

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 4:58PM
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On further thought, I think it's better to leave them both. It only damages that person more if they read that and then read that persons R&R. The only other thing that would be better is if they were both removed. No one else knows what transpired in the trade and the first R&R was not true either. I did not delay sending the seeds. It was four days from the time of the initial email that the seeds were sent. Either they both stay or the both go.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 6:05PM
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i would actually leave it, it shows that he is damaged goods. he already has a bad rep. i know for a fact that he is not good, i left that nicely in a post that was open in his. while people were attacking him. we had a trade open, it was all good, ready to go, he wanted a "few" great roses of mine, BUT when i mentioned that he had a very damaged R&R and if he sent his first i would then send my end and i would leave him a very nice R&R. that would then help him on his way to getting back on track. well that all sounded great, but then came the excuses. so IMHO he was a damamged trader, NO GOOD. i told him that i hoped everything was alright with his family. and left it at that.
it makes me sad. some people are ok for seeds but very bad for plants.
don't let these people upset you, you let them win! ~medo

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 6:30PM
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littleonefb(zone 5, MA)

I'm so itching and twitching to respond to this post on you RR thread Diana, but, I'm being a good girl since I haven't traded with the person

"Doing my best to do things right. Sorry that I have mailed some seeds not in a bubble envelope due to not having one available and wanting to get seed out at once so I would not get behind. Most seeds sent were flat so thought it would have been ok and when printed on envelope to "Hand stamp" what more can you do? Have learned my lesson, and with some people, learned that you just can't please them no matter what you do. Like I said, lesson learned."


this is just bull crap.

Flat seeds should be fine, my arse and marked hand stamp? Who is this character kidding.

I got one of those envies several years ago, flat seeds, marked hand stamp.

Whoopy. the seeds where flat to start with, that is true, money plant seeds are flat, but those crushers in the PO, don't care that the seeds are flat, fat, round or anything else.
When they are done with the envie, there is pulverized dust left, even with the flat money seeds.

Every seen what those crushers can do to marigold seeds? Yup, dust with them too.

What more can you do? How about a bubble envelope and do things right. forget about getting them out fast.

Just a stupid, stupid answer and nasty to boot.

No thanks, that one isn't gonna be on my trade or BEAP list. Seeds go out in bubblies only, trade or BEAP and they come in with a Bubblie or bad review is posted.

I'm with you Diana, and standing my ground as well.


    Bookmark   November 25, 2009 at 4:37PM
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Thanks so much for the vote of support Fran. I'll admit that I really freaked out at first. "OMG! No one will ever want to trade with me now!"

Then some really nice GW members talked me off the ledge so to speak. It really does benefit me if both posts stay. Who wants to trade with someone that thinks bubble envelopes are a "stupid envelope?"

I think he'll get what's coming to him in the end.

Thanks again Fran - you're a good GW friend!


    Bookmark   November 25, 2009 at 6:25PM
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lady_alicia Zone 5/6 PA(5)

I guess I'll chime in too. I've gotten several envelopes in the past with postage due on them. That has made me mad because I put enough postage on my bubble mailers to them. And then to boot, it's not in a bubble mailer. Ugh.

So what does everyone think about putting seeds in a regular envy with bubble wrap around the seeds? Any problems? I had two envelopes rip by the time I got it. The post office taped it one time and the other time it was like a slit/tear on the front. I was surprised my seeds were still in there! :) I ALWAYS send in bubble mailers and put that I expect the same. But like someone mentioned, people just don't read everything. They skim through your post and read what they want to read, I suppose. :(

I like the suggestion of having people tell you that they'll wait for your seeds and re-use your bubble mailer. That's a good idea for those that don't have any. Or is it that they're trying to save postage????

It does get frustrating at times. But I love trading with everyone, see some familiar people here, and I would hate to quit because of a few bad apples. We need to keep the GOOD traders trading. So all of you good traders, DON'T STOP TRADING!!! :)) My gardens get more beautiful each year because of all the seeds I receive from members. And at an affordable price!

Hang in there, Ollierose.....

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

    Bookmark   November 25, 2009 at 11:37PM
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i know what you are sayin Alicia! i have met some great people but very bad trading practices! and for me that kinda sucks. but what i will and would start doing is telling people when i make a trade, " i do leave a rate, so if you dont' send my seeds no matter WHAT kind they are in a bubbly envi, that is NOT one wrapped in bubble and then put in a regular envelope, but a regular bubble envelope, i will leave that in your R&R. i'm just letting you know that **smil** it will let others know that you are a trustworthy trader **big smile** ~medo
it softens the "blow" sortof or makes it not so defensive for them.
when people use the wraping in a regular envi sometimes they have spent just as much. just don't make any sense to me!! don't they know it makes a big difference??
Ollierose- i think that you dont' trust the good enough . they'll know that you are a great trader and expect more, they'll look at his one rude comment go to his R&R and look at his. then look at all yours and then say wait, we know by word of mouth that she is really a great person! trust a little more in yourself. :') Jerry will get what's coming to him, it usually does follow people like that in one way or another. i hope that you have a BLessed THanksgiving!! ~medo (who has to do nothing because tabor and hubs is doing all the cooking!!! **big smile**)

    Bookmark   November 26, 2009 at 1:44PM
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Hugs to all of're all very special people to me and I appreciate you so much. Off the check on my dinner....:)

    Bookmark   November 26, 2009 at 3:49PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana(zone 5/6)

I guess I'll chime in too. I've gotten several envelopes in the past with postage due on them. That has made me mad because I put enough postage on my bubble mailers to them. And then to boot, it's not in a bubble mailer. Ugh.

So what does everyone think about putting seeds in a regular envy with bubble wrap around the seeds? Any problems?
Yes, several problems. A piece of folded bubble wrap with even tiny seeds in it, in a regular envelope will exceed the 1/4" allowance for a regular envelope. It then must go as a large envelope rate which is 88 cents (if the PO doesn't overcharge and think of it as a padded envelope and say all bubble envelopes.padded mailers are parcels). That is why you had postage due when they arrived. I'm surprised it even arrived alive with padding in a regular envelope.

hmmm...a recent 'offer' says to send a sase with 1 stamp on it...don't send bubble envelope, and don't send foam. Doesn't say if they are including any padding...sad if the seeds get crushed due to improper packing...If they are adding padding for the seeds, in a 'regular' envy, I wonder if they will either get clogged (and torn/destroyed) in the sorting equipment due to being over 1/4" or if the receiving member will then have postage due.

Am I missing something? Why are the simple rules confusing me? Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee yet.


    Bookmark   December 4, 2009 at 10:36AM
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