Patio slab question

dinosaur1(5)September 4, 2010

I am the 2nd owner of our house which was built in 1997. Â The Patio Slab was not graded correctly causing pooling underneath the concrete slab plugging the drain tile. Â I get a small amount of water leaking where the basement wall meets the basement floor on medium to big rainstorms. Â We have lived there for 5 years but it been more consistent over the last 2 yrs. Â This is happening in 1 area only.

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lehua49

D,

What is your question? Describe why you believe the patio slab is involved or graded incorrectly? Does the patio slab slope toward the house? Describe what you mean by drain tile and its location in relation to the patio and house. Remember we haven't and probably won't visit your house for a quick look. Aloha

    Bookmark   September 5, 2010 at 1:51PM
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dinosaur1(5)

There is water pooling at the NE corner of the slab. The slab slopes slightly toward the NE corner. That is the only area aeiund the entire foundation where I see water after a big rainstorm.

    Bookmark   September 5, 2010 at 2:50PM
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dinosaur1(5)

Does anyone know if insurance woud cover something like this?

    Bookmark   September 5, 2010 at 3:04PM
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duluthinbloomz4

I'm a little confused. Aren't patio drains connected to something - like the storm water run off systems. Or a pipe directing water to a sump pump for removal away from the foundation. You must have a blockage or break somewhere along the system.

    Bookmark   September 5, 2010 at 3:20PM
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dinosaur1(5)

It's connected to my sump pump. So you also believe its a break or a block? Being that we have large rain storms once in a while should I be concerned or not really? It doesn't happen every single time it rains. Only during heavy rain.

    Bookmark   September 5, 2010 at 3:29PM
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lehua49

Dino,

Here is my recommendation. Have a plumber or landscape contractor over to look at the problem and ask for a quote to fix the it(have three independent businesses come and look). After that discussion, post here what was discussed and the costs on the recommended fixes. You will need that documentation in any case. Then we can help you. Aloha

    Bookmark   September 5, 2010 at 9:33PM
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laag(z6CapeCod)

Demo the slab. Regrade the area so that the subgrade pitches away from the house at 1/4" per foot. Pour a new slab (or other pavement surface) following the same slope.

Your drainage system sounds like it is just a tile system around the base of the foundation rather than "connected" to a surface drainage system.

The best thing you can do for drainage problems is to cutoff the source of water. Gutters with downspouts directing the water to a safe place is a huge benefit. A hardscpe directing water away from the house also helps.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2010 at 7:55AM
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missingtheobvious(Blue Ridge 7a)

laag's suggestion would also give you the opportunity to change the size, shape, location, etc. of the patio, which IIRC you had felt was too small. For instance, rather than have a rectangular patio, you could make the far edge parallel to the trees and widen the patio along the house so you'd have room for more than just the table.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2010 at 11:47AM
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dinosaur1(5)

Sure but how much $$$$

    Bookmark   September 6, 2010 at 11:54AM
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dinosaur1(5)

Sure but how much $$$

    Bookmark   September 6, 2010 at 11:56AM
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woodyoak zone 5 Canada(5b)

How much $$$ if you don't do anything and you end up with significant water problems in the basement? At our previous house there was a 20x30' concrete patio that was 30+ years old which had gradually settled, directing water against the foundation. We had it removed, the original tile drain against the house dug out and replaced (it had silted up over the years) and the patio repoured, ammending the shape slightly. Here, we also had a problem on one side of the patio. We had that side removed and replaced with 9"x12" paving stones, properly graded. We figure the paving stones also allow some of the water to drain away into the ground and, if we ever need to replace the tile drains along the house, it will be easier/cheaper to lift the patio stones, do the work, re-grade the base and relay the stones than it would be to take out the concrete again. If I was doing another concrete patio in the future, I'd use patio stones for the first 3-4' along the house and then use concrete for the rest. That would greatly simplify future maintenance for drains and make correcting grading from settling a lot easier.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2010 at 12:31PM
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lehua49

Dino,

All very good words of experience here. By having a contractor look at the problem, you will have an approximate cost to do a proper job. You will also find out what the proper fix would be. The split is usually 50% material and 50% labor. A contractor gets a better deal for materials than you would buying retail. But you can decide to do all the work yourself and save the labor costs. But do you? How much is your time worth and how good are your skills. My experience from doing some jobs myself and my wife saying I wish you would have let a professional do the work. That being said none of us can see your actual problem first hand and therefore can't give you an exact fix and cost as someone you invite over can. Are you looking to find fault with a previous owner for non-disclosure or some other third-party to pay for the repair? If so you would still go through these actions. Call your insurance agent to check on if it is covered under insurance. JMHO Aloha

    Bookmark   September 6, 2010 at 1:41PM
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dinosaur1(5)

Would the expanding slab and pitching it away from the house cause less water to travel through my underground drain tile system?

    Bookmark   September 6, 2010 at 1:47PM
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laag(z6CapeCod)

What are your choices?

You can leave it pitching water to the house - you know how that is working out.

You can tear it out and just re-grade and just re-seed.

You can tear it out and put in something else that is pitched right.

What you would like to do is keep what you have and make it work, but you really can not pick up a poured in place concrete slab and make it pitch in a different direction.

You could cut the slab four or five feet away from the foundation and install a trench drain. Few people use the part of a slab close to the house anyway. This would also give you a place to plant shrubs and make it a nicer space. The difficulty is that the area within about 8 feet of a foundation is backfill with an undisturbed sloped subgrade heading back to the footing. Water goes down into that fill rather easily, even thirteen years later. When it meets that undisturbed edge of that cellar hole it follows that slope back to the foundation. If you cut the slab, make sure that you use a good channel drain and not just let it infiltrate down into the ground. .... by the time that you do that, if you do it right, the cost of removing and replacing the slab might make it seem not so bad.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2010 at 1:51PM
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dinosaur1(5)

If I decide to approach my insurance company what do I ask them?

    Bookmark   September 6, 2010 at 11:15PM
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stormz4

Be carefull about approaching the insurance company before you have it looked at by a professional. You want to give the insurance company the right information and recomendations. If you don't have flood insurance the sumpump may be covered as it is part of the structure and if the pump is the issue. It costs the insurance company less and you also if dealt with in a proactive way. I think based on your posts that the patio has setteled the wrong way and in time will become a bigger probem. So do get a professional in to asess and recomend a solution. Make sure they are bonded and insured and then take those recomendations to the insurance company as you may have a claim. Also get more than one estiment. Good luck look forward to future posts.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2010 at 2:41AM
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dinosaur1(5)

We had a sump pump failure 2 yrs ago and the insurance covered everything 100% due to that but since then insurance guidelines changed and they don't cover anything due to sump pump failure period. I will speak to some pro's and see what they tell me. My thing is we don't get heavy rain here alot and that is when the water is visible between the wall and floor crack. The carpet is wet 4-6 out from the baseboard when this happens. But I would like to get it fixed obviously.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2010 at 8:54AM
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dinosaur1(5)

Houses the age of mine simply don't have drain-tile issues. Built in 1997.  There's too much gravel sitting under and around the drain-tile to ever "clog". What's going on with the house? If I remember, the last time we had huge rains, my sump pump really never stopped running... which isn't a sign of clogged drain-tile. Our whole subdivision was built on a higher ground-water area. My bet is, like many areas in these high rain periods, water came up, and like a boat, myhouse was floating, but couldn't. Water comes in during these periods around open areas, cracks, etc

    Bookmark   September 7, 2010 at 10:48PM
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dinosaur1(5)

By the way.... whats the best downspout extension that I can buy? Now I have the classic aluminum downspout around my home. And they sometimes get loose with the screw that holes them in.Â

    Bookmark   September 7, 2010 at 11:50PM
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stormz4

Ok, the way I see it from your post is to deffinatley get the expert opinon. It is not acceptable to have, and I'm assuming that you mean 4-6 inches of water and not 4-6 feet of water. Either way you lose when you have to replace carpet, drywall, trim etc... One other way is a beaver system. It is important to get moisture to run away from the main structure. This system was very popular in the 1970's. I have seen it first hand. But with that said, today it is not always the answear either. That is why you should get some more professional opinons.

Please do keep us posted when you do this as I and some others would really like to know how you want to go forward. By the way the only thing I do know about a beaver system is next to nothing. I do know it worked. Especialy when there were heavey rains in spring along with snow melt and refreezing. The list could go on and on. LOL!

    Bookmark   September 8, 2010 at 3:27AM
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laag(z6CapeCod)

If you have a situation of disrepair and you neglect to fix it, should it be your insurance company's responsibility to pay for the damages? If they know that you know of the problem, will they pay for it?

    Bookmark   September 8, 2010 at 7:04AM
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dinosaur1(5)

Would it be a good idea to break apart the patio slab and put Pavers instead?

    Bookmark   September 22, 2010 at 7:49PM
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