Animal Cruelty or not?

ccox(z8)October 27, 2005

Good morning all,

I know dog subjects are touchy, but I don't think this one will get us in trouble.

Here's the scenario:

Female dog, tied to rope/chain----not illegal.

Puppies, not tied and can sneak under "fence"---illegal.

Female----pregnant or pups ALL THE TIME---not illegal.

Dogs live on very heavily traveled road---pups near road constantly---illegal.

Vet care, vaccinations, doubtful----illegal.

The mother dog has had so many litters of pups in sucession that her poor teats are 6-8 inches long.

This owner has been in our small town since it really was a "small town". They own what used to be a car salvage place. They have a cadillac in the driveway and a nice pool.

I can't imagine that they make any money off selling these pups. The mom is a Pitt Bull, but the pups are all mutts. I believe she's fairly friendly, or at least not aggressive. I tried to catch her and a couple pups last spring when she was out on the road (dragging her rope). I never caught her, but she wasn't aggressive at all.

They are obviously well fed, and have water. I guess they have access to shelter because the mom's chain/rope must be over 100 ft. long and the folks have many out-buildings.

Here's my dilema----I have found several places in the County Code where the owners are out of bounds concerning these dogs. Since this is an "old family", do you think I have any chance of helping this poor dog? I just would like to see her fixed and have a collar instead of being tied around the neck with a rope and chain. That's all I want---heck, I'd even pay for it. Obviously, these folks could afford it if they wanted to (car and pool). Maybe I'm wrong.

Please give me your 2 cents worth on the matter. The animal control officer will be calling me back tomorrow.

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marquisella(z4 NY)

Unless you catch her loose, and you have a leash law, there is nothing illegal about the situation.

She has food, water & shelter.

You are in zone 8, so weather isn't that cold?

Sounds like its hopeless.


    Bookmark   October 27, 2005 at 12:35PM
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Maggie_J(z5 Ontario)

That's a tough one, Carla, and upsetting too. What are the people like? Have you spoken to them about this situation? (I'm not advocating a conversation, just wondering if they might simply be taking the line of least resistance and saying it is "natural" for her to have puppies all the time.) Perhaps animal control will at least go and talk to them... sometimes the visit itself from The Authorities is enough to make people rethink their actions.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2005 at 1:03PM
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I knocked on their door 2 different times this morning after trying to put the pups back in the yard. They were walking along a very busy roadway on my way to my son's school. When I pulled over they high-tailed it back to the house. I put them back in their yard, but they found a quick way out and beat me to the front yard.
My original reason for knocking on their door was to see if they belonged to the house. In going around back, I saw the mother. I'd tried to capture her and some pups last spring---running along the same stretch of road. Now I know where she belonged and wasn't hit by a car, but I feel bad I wasn't able to catch her last year. She just wasn't having it and I was afraid I'd chase her or her pups into traffic.
I've got the sections in the county ordinance that they are in violation of (proper fencing and restraint of animals) or maybe in violation of (rabies, registration, vet care). We'll see if Animal Control acts on it. Like I said, I don't want these folks in trouble---just caring for their poor dog.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2005 at 3:59PM
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velvet_sparrow(Zone 5b, Gardnerville, NV)

If animal control doesn't visit them, I'd get a nice, friendly card and write a polite note inside telling them that you have twice resuced their pups and you knew they'd be concerned, since they must love dogs so much. *ahem* Keep it warm and innocently friendly, that 'just trying to help my neighbor' tone. Nothing accusing or aggressive. Mention how beautiful the dogs are. Stick it on their door if they won't answer when you knock. Maybe that'll do the trick. Could it be that they really don't realize the pups are getting loose? Not too probable, I know.

Of course, if animal control DOES visit them, I'd lay low and NOT knock on their door. They might suspect you of causing trouble for them and that could get nasty.

Poor dogs. Wish I had better answers... :(

Velvet ~:>

    Bookmark   October 27, 2005 at 4:07PM
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gurley157fs(zone 7/8sc)

Sad situation. It sounds as if these people are providing the bare minimum of care (according to the law). Unfortuneatly there is probably not much you can do about it.

Our dog was a rescue from a situation somewhat similar. My DH simply told the man that owned the dog that he really liked his dog a lot and that if he ever needed to find a good home for him that we would take him.

A few months later the man offered us the dog. He is 13 and very happy now. I had really planned on buying a certain puppy but we decided to make him our one and only until his time is up.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2005 at 8:14PM
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erinluchsinger(z4 - Upstate NY)

I vote that it's not animal cruelty. Granted, i personally would never treat a dog that way, but as long as they're fed and have shelter and are in good condition, I'd say you don't have a hope of changing things. I feel terrible for dogs that are chained all their lives, but it's a fact of life I guess. I called the SPCA 2 years ago about a pure bred Rottweiler that is chained to a very heavy 8' logging chain. It was -20 degrees F when I drove by that night, and the dog was still out there. It has a dog house, and that SPCA said that it wouldn't touch the case b/c it had shelter. I can't imagine how it felt w/ it's feet standing in the snow in -20 degree weather (no joke on the temp either!). My heart broke for it. I drove by it every day that winter, and knew that the only way I could do anything was to un hook it's chain. But I didn't b/c that would be cruel in the end b/c it would probably die a miserable life out in the woods somewhere.
Back to your story... as I said earlier, I would never personally treat an animal that way (I would never own a dog or cat that isn't fixed, either), but if they're in good condition, then I think you're stuck.
Let us know what happens.
Oh, and money doesn't make you an smarter than the rest of the world. In fact, there are a lot of rich, ignorant people out there. Especially when it comes to their pets. I have a friend that is a very well respect Pediatrics ICU doctor, yet their family feeds their beloved black labs the cheapest, nastiest food out there, and let their old dog die on it's own, when it was clearly in pain and should have been put out of it's misery months earlier... if not an entire year earlier.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2005 at 9:26PM
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I have the exact same problem, except we are talking about a beautiful Border Collie mom and she has 2 litters a year, infact I was just informed by my son that the little girl from the same family told him she just had 8 pups. We found homes for almost all of her pups about a year ago. My husband has taken to putting them down because the older pups don't take long to learn to dig under my chicken yard fence. We have seen some of the pups taken by animal control from new owners after they got bigger because they bit a lady pushing a baby stroller. The folks around here just don't take "good" care of their dogs. Sometimes you just have to take matters in your own hands. Perhaps you should make good friends with the mama and take her yourself to be fixed. Just let her show up with the stitches and a note on her coller with instructions of when to get the stitches removed, and be sure to say "your welcome" on the note. I have been told several times by the owners of this dog that "this is her last litter, we are having her fixed." Yeah right. My fear now is that the papa of this litter is a large great dane. Papa is a horse! It is not taking good care of your dogs if you let them run the neighborhood streets. I think puppies after puppies is animal abuse. Senseless shame!!

    Bookmark   October 28, 2005 at 12:41AM
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undercover_owl(8 Pac.NW)

How sad.
The dog owners sound very irresponsible, and in my opinion, it is animal abuse. Lesli* has a good idea, if you think its worth it, maybe you and some neighbors could pitch in..? The legal ramifications might be an issue, though.

Also: Its' a Pit Bull, and that breed is often used for fighting, which is definitely illegal. Not saying your neighbors are guilty of dog-fighting, but it's possible.

Have you ever seen "Animal Cops Houston" on the Animal Planet channel? They do investigate these things (like pit bull fighting) in Houston, and I imagine Austin is similar...

    Bookmark   October 30, 2005 at 8:48PM
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I feel the back to back breeding ts abuse but unfortunately the government dont. I have a simular neighbor who has a male and female he breeds. tied to each other through a ring and then that is hooked to a dog run. the female is 1/3 the size of the male. The male drags her all over pregnant. She lays on her back and crys while he drags her. he has never wormed them ever or had any shots for them. he has been breeding her back to back for 3 years. he sells the puppies unregistered for 250$$. and claims he has no money to bring them to the vet. One morning I called there as I knew that mother was about to burst with her pups and it was -20 below and high winds. I knew he never brought her in.He sleeps till 1pm and is sooo lazy. I woke him and he said the mother was outside and he said I dont give a ---- . so I went there to find 7 frozen puppies stuck to the ground!!!!!
This guy has plenty of money to buy his daughter every dvd and video and toy but not a dollar to make a pen? he has lots of acres to work with.
He has got over 4 more puppies given to him this year, as his 5 year old daughter wants them. like duh who is the boss here. She is!! then he hooks them to that male on that line and he hangs them to death. I am not kidding he has killed over 4 puppies this past year. someone has called on him but all they could do is require the rabies n licenses. This person hates dogs and kicks them and abuses them. Those dogs are long haired breed covered in burdocks with sores from the burdocks and I looked in there ears and found burdocks way down there and infections in their ears. And the best part is he claims to be a man of God and everyone who dont go to church is a great sinner. Blah Blah Blah..I cant even tolerate the situation and had to turn my head. it makes me sick!! This couldnt go on if people would actually come see the parents of puppies they buy. instead he brings them places like the park or bars and people see just the puppies and buy them.

I see this with horse breeding folks too. One horse bred for 15 years with no breaks.

I just wonder where are these peoples minds at?

    Bookmark   October 31, 2005 at 11:08AM
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treasurificgal(z8A CA)

My advice is do what you can do, and you have already called animal control. It may not be worth it to push the point and have a bad relationship with a neighbor. It would not be right to fix the dog without permission, but if you caught it when it is loose, and took it to animal control, it would inconvenience the owner if they have to go bail their dog out of the shelter. If it stays in the shelter unclaimed it has a good chance of finding a loving home, and it will have to be spayed before it is adopted. I would go this route.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2013 at 11:21AM
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