How to catch GROUNDHOGS Woodchucks

koreykJune 24, 2007

This is going to be a serious discussion on catching groundhogs or woodchucks. they are the same. different name for same animal.

These guys are super destructive in the garden. We need to catch them.

OK I have 2 traps. One is a Havahart and the other is live trap by Safeguard. From what I can understand the Safeguard is a better trap than the Havahart.

The problem is finding a bait to get him to go into the trap.

I have at least 2 groundhogs in my garden probably more. I saw a big one and a little one. Looks like there has to be another big one that helped beget the little one. And they usually have more than one baby so I am in trouble.

So far NO LUCK catching them.

I have a neighbor about a mile away has a family in the garden. NO LUCK there for 3 weeks of trying to catch one. I saw the big boy waddling in the garden over there also. He is brazen. what a garden. he lives in heaven. The damage is extensive.

I have tried heads of lettuce. I have tried broccoli and apples still no luck. maybe my timing was off a bit.


By the way. I had them last year and no luck last year. Lots of damage last year.

Here is the trap that I have.

Here is a link that might be useful: My Groundhog trap

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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Do you absolutely feel that you must trap them alive? The best solution for them is to kill them. I also have had two, however I lack a proper weapon. I have only a pellet rifle. I also tilled a portion/plot behind the house and I have allow it to regrow with weeds whatever. They come into that and have left my lettuce and things alone. I have been able on two occasions to sneak up on them and have shot each in the head with the pellet rifle. First there were two out there and I shot the near one and it took off. Another time there was only one and I also was able to shoot it in the head. It also took off and I have seen neither since. I do not think that I killed them, only educated them where they should not be. If I had a .22 or better I would have no problem in whacking them both. Alass the guns went with the bankruptcy. My neighbor has also tried to trap them with a Havahart with no luck.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 6:18AM
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val_s(z5 central IL)

You might try the Integrated Pest Manangement forum; I found 12 matches for groundhog and 6 matches for woodchuck. Might be safer.


Here is a link that might be useful: Integrated Pest Management

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 6:51AM
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I tried practically all the GH baits recommended on the Have-a-hart site; broccoli was the only winner for me. I put a floret or 2 about a foot in front of the opening, then 1-2 more halfway in and then a couple after the trip plate. I also put a thin layer of dirt on the bottom and on the trip plate; some donÂt like the feeling of the cage under their feet. Make sure the dirt doesnÂt stop the door from closing/locking properly, happened to the 1st one I caught, he got right out but came back an hour later. They like the florets the best but some will eat the stalk. The heat really beats the heck out of the broccoli, lasts about a day or 2, try to shade it somewhat if possible. Also had good success with brussel sprout leaves. IÂve read stories of them turning on you when you release them, hasnÂt happened to me yet, be careful. BTW, they really stink. I also read that when expanding their territory they will dig a hole, not too deep, not connected to any other tunnel just in case they feel threatened during grazing. If you catch them in a new hole you can drown them by putting a hose in and stuffing a rolled carpet or similar in the hole, I got my 1st that way. Couple days later a caught another in a new hole. As I waited for the hole to fill with water I could swear I saw a plant next to the hole move a little. Am I seeing things? Couple seconds later he busted right out like a rocket. Got a hav-a-hart the next day. Caught 15 last year, 3 so far this year. HavenÂt seen one in 2 months.

Here is a link that might be useful: GH baits

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 7:27AM
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Bubble gum will kill them.
The brand to use is Bubblicious.
The flavor to use is Watermelon.

Place ample amounts where they will find it and keep replacing the bait until the problem is solved.

Sue Ellen

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 8:05AM
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Sue I suspect that bubble gum is an old wives tale. I tried some gum last year and no one touches it except ants. it sort of melts away in the heat.

kkfromnj is a genius. Incredible. You got 15 last year. almost unbelieveable. I just chopped down my broccoli plant last night and ate it. I believe you are correct. I will check the garden for floretes. might find a small one or two. I will try just as you suggested.

Somewhere I read on using apples so I purchased apples and put them out with no luck so far.

Do you microwave the broccoli to get the smell going better or just put it out there. I had tried some broccoli stem this year with no luck. I ate the flowers. I will have to sacrifice. haha.

Last year they kept tearing up the tomatoes. they would pick them a day or two before I was ready to pick. It was so frustrating. They also mowed down the lettuce last year.

This year they nibbled off the tender tips of some of my tomato plants. I am going out there now and try to set up something. see you later.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 1:14PM
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Not really a genius, just spent lots of time observing, trial and error. Luckily my computer chair sits directly next to a window that looks out over the garden. The whole thing is finding something that YOUR GH will eat. I got the idea to use broccoli after they wiped out my entire crop of brussels sprouts. Like I said I tried almost everything on the list, broccoli was the only thing they touched. I use it straight from the head, no cooking, nice and crunchy. I actually had it pretty easy. They would slip under the fence at the same corner of the yard EVERYTIME. I would simply push the dirt up at the corner and when I noticed it was moved IâÂÂd set the trap. Yeah, when I started trapping I thought I had a couple, they just kept on coming, the neighbors love me, besides getting rid of the groundhogs I also specialize in squirrels.

Are you sure the tomatoes were being bothered by groundhogs, did you actually see them?

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 1:35PM
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I just set up the trap again. It had been setup but I changed the bait again. I found some fresh broccoli in the garden and did like you said. One flower in front of the trap. one just inside and then the big one deep inside. I also found a few wild raspberries and I put those in the trap. I also took a small leaf off the broccoli plant and used that. I did not put dirt on the floor.

I am wondering if I make a plywood piece to fit inside the trap. maybe that would work nicely. The temperatures are going to shoot through the roof the next couple of days. expect 100 F in 2 or 3 days.

NO I never saw a groundhog eating the tomatoes. Do you think it could have been the chipmunks. I have tons of those.

Old Dawg

I do not mind shooting them except for a couple of problems. I do not have a gun and will not buy one. The police in town would have a head fit shooting a groundhog. the neighbors would die of shock.

But also whenever I have been lucky enough to see one they are usually running away. The chance of me having the gun handy is zero. Heck I have no trouble hitting him with an atomic bomb and blowing up the entire state just to get them buggers. haha.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 2:23PM
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gumby_ct(CT it says Z5)

I don't know how big the tomatoes were/are but just the tips sounds more like deer. GH's eat from the bottom up. You may have more than one problem. GH's don't come out at night either.

I never had any luck with the gum, sounds good & cheap too, but ants is all I got.

I tried broccoli in the traps, the GH's would never go in.

Best luck I had is using fox urine, gets the whole fam damily to move. Cheaper than the gas it takes to transport woodchucks too. Esp. if there are lots of them. But then you have to fill in the holes or they come back next year.

Fox urine is easier on the conscience too, if you can't bring yourself to hurt them. Just gets them to move. Isn't that all you really want? To eat somewhere else?

If you know where their holes are you can use those smoke bombs after sunset, when they are sure to be in there. Or use a lawnmower or something with a gas engine attached to a hose to put them to sleep.

Good Luck,
Gumby_CT - who thinks there is really only one woodchuck, who gets re-gifted to another neighbor by some do-gooder who just can't hurt animals. Like the fruitcake theory ;-)

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 2:49PM
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I grew several nice veggies and flowers in an unfenced garden within inches of a groundhog den at my last apartment complex. the big hogs would come right up to the garden and even in it to grab things the residents threw out for them.
They were darn fast in getting out though-in fact several residents complained after i moved in that the pigs weren't coming in and entertaining them for so long.
I had a dog who'd run them off when I'd open the door and even dive into the hole in pursuit. they really do hate being harassed. Their hole shouldn't be far or hard to find-usually tunneled into a small bluff or hill. Make it unpleasant for them to be seen and irritating to live there.
if you have a pooch, even a small one, (dachshunds and jacks are super good!) let 'em chase the things. Right into the hole if possible. Eventually, your giant garden rats will leave for easier pickings.
It's non-lethal, (unless you have a big tough terrier) fun for your dog, and saves the garden.
I have never had luck catching a groundhog in a live trap. they really either have to be run off or terminated, in my experience.
keep in mind, if you catch one and take it to the humane society, it's going to be euthanised. if you "release" it somewhere, other than a real wilderness environment, it's going to eat someone else's garden. Living in the country for many years, i can tell you, what many folks think is a nice "forest" or 'wild place" is quite often merely a rural community which may be even less welcoming to a garden predator...

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 4:03PM
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I have looked around but do not know where the hole happens to be. Nice insight on handling the situation. thanks. Unfortunately I can not get a dog to chase them off my property. that is a no no in this town. no dogs off the property.

Groundhogs can be real nasty. if cornered they will attack and bite. I consider them a bit dangerous on the loose if cornered.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 5:08PM
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You can getÂem in the trap. Did you cover the wire bottom with dirt? I watched them several times start to enter and once their feet felt cage out they went. I drop mine off in the Meadowlands at the water treatment plant (State property). Nothing but offices, warehouses, industrial buildings. At one time my friend would let his dog run wild down there, groundhog heaven. He got too many complaints about GH carcasses.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 5:15PM
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KK from new jersey-good job on the pig catchin'!

You can make a right fine stew with a nice fat groudhog and garden veggeies, btw...

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 5:29PM
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>>>You can make a right fine stew with a nice fat groudhog and garden veggeies,

I donÂt doubt they could be a tasty dish prepared the right way but after smelling them a couple feet away, flies hovering all around them, I donÂt think I could put it in my mouth. Now maybe, just maybe, if I didnÂt already know what I was about to eat.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 5:43PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

kkfromnj it's against the law to relocate wildlife in New Jersey, so if you release the woodchuck off your own property you are breaking the law.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 6:46PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

You can use a "magnum" style air rifle (pellet gun) to kill woodchucks. These are high powered spring operated airguns. A .22 pellet or a "heavy" .177 pellet will kill a woodchuck up to 35 yards away. A magnum shoots a .22 pellet at 750 feet per second (fps) or a heavy .177 at 900 fps

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 6:50PM
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I was told (3 years ago via email) by NJ fish and game commission that I can release problem animals from my property up to 5 miles away to private land (with permission) or to State property.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 6:55PM
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Discharge a gun in town? I think not. Seems a quick scan of the latest rules show a change. However it is still allowable, thank goodness squirrels arenâÂÂt a rabies vector species,
Page 4 of 5
Rabies Vector Species
Nuisance bats are protected under the Endangered and Nongame Species Conservation Act and therefore may not be controlled by lethal means. Evictions and exclusions of bats should only be conducted prior to mid-May and after mid-September to prevent injury and death to young bats. Raccoons, skunks, fox and woodchucks are currently classified as rabies vector species for the raccoon rabies strain currently endemic in New Jersey. Due to the rare occurrence of rabies in opossums, this species is no longer classified as a rabies vector species. As mentioned above, release locations for foxes must be approved by the Division. If release at the site of capture for the rehabilitated and nuisance raccoons, skunks and woodchucks is impossible the following restrictions apply.

Rehabilitated Juvenile Rabies Vector Species
All young of the year must be released within the county of origin in suitable habitat and with
permission of the landowner. No releases are allowed on federal, state, county or municipal land.
If no private land is available for release, the Division may approve a release on the closest state
Wildlife Management Area on a case by case basis. Juveniles may not be translocated to a
township that is currently involved in a rabies prevention program using the oral rabies vaccine.

Adult Rabies Vector Species
Releases of adult rabies vector species must take place within the township of origin in suitable
habitat and with permission from the landowner. No releases within the township may be greater
than a 10-mile distance from the capture site for raccoons and 5 miles for skunks and
woodchucks. No releases are allowed on federal, state, county or municipal land. If no private
land is available for release, the Division may approve a release on the closest state Wildlife
Management Area on a case by case basis. Persons wishing to release a nuisance or rehabilitated
adult rabies vector species must first contact the Office of Permit Management.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 7:19PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

It would appear that you folks up north give your ground hogs more rights than some people have. Here, if it is on your land and is creating a problem and that includes free running dogs, you can whack it. Not that I would kill a dog for any reason other than attack. Ground hogs, whack them. I just re-sighted the pellet gun today and will try for a ear/eye shot if they come again. They haven't been back since I popped them in the head.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 9:23PM
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You got that right dawg

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 9:50PM
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gumby_ct(CT it says Z5)

Got me wonderin where "here" is?

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 10:38PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

Here in New Hampshire you can whack woodchucks freely and the pellet gun is a good way to do it. ole_dawg some of the newer Chinese made high powered guns are only $75 new and they will easily take down a woodchuck. Even a cheap Chinese .22 air rifle that you can get for $20 will kill one at close range.

NJ law says : "If release or relocation of a nuisance animal will only transfer the problem elsewhere, euthanasia of the problem animals should be considered. Property owners and occupants of dwellings, or their agents in writing, may control property damage by lawful means when suffering such damage from squirrel, raccoon, opossum, skunk, weasel and woodchucks (N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.21)."

By the way the law you quoted specifically says you cannot relocate a woodchuck to state land, only to private property with the owner's permission.

However, if you live in New Jersey, you are not allowed to buy an airgun through the mail. Thank your state legislature for that.

By the way a pellet gun is not a firearm. The .22 are subsonic and they make hardly any noise.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 10:47PM
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they make pellet guns that shoot at 1200 ft per second. a bit expensive.

Where can you get a chinese gun for $75 and $20 as quoted. that is a reasonable price to fix my problem. the high speed 1200 ft / sec run around $400 if I remember correctly.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 11:51PM
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gumby_ct(CT it says Z5)

Keep in mind: In order to shoot them, you have to see them. If you haven't/don't see them, well get the point.

Plus they spook real easy. Be prepared to spend a whole lot of time if you plan to shoot one. Then ya gotta wonder, just how many there are? And just how much time do you have?

If you have seen em, their hole won't be to far away. Spook em and watch where they run to.

Oh yea, they are viscious too. A small dog could get hurt messing with one.

Whatever you decide - we are rootin for ya.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 12:49AM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

Here is the $75 Chinese airgun that shoots at 900 fps it is the QB-362

Here is a link that might be useful: QB-362

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 1:08AM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

Here's a 1,000 fps airgun for $82

Here is a link that might be useful: AF1000MAGAS airgun 1000 fps

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 1:12AM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

Here is the cheap but popular B3-1 airgun for $20 ok for real close range only, like the coup de grace when the animal is in a live trap.

Note like I said before this company says they cannot ship to NJ but your can probably find it locally or from another supplier.

Dauvens also has this .22 B4-2 very similar to the other but .22 for $25

Both Dauvens and South Summit have very reasonable prices.

Also check out believe it or not they sell quite a few air rifles. Note they all have the disclaimer that all of these are for people 18 and over, and you have to follow your local & state laws before purchasing etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chinese B3-1 airgun $20

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 1:25AM
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maineman(z5a ME)


"They make pellet guns that shoot at 1200 ft per second. A bit expensive."

The new RWS 460 Magnum shoots .177 at 1350 fps and .22 at 1150 fps. It is a fixed barrel for more accuracy and cocks with an underlever cocking mechanism.

I have an older Gamo .22 break barrel air rifle (I paid about $125 for it) and the break barrel design hurts the accuracy some. And Gamo air rifles aren't known for great accuracy, either. I have shot squirrels out of trees with my Gamo, but I consider those to be "lucky shots". My Gamo shoots .22 pellets at about 900 fps, so it is fairly fast. The same gun in .177 shot about 1100 fps.

However, it really doesn't matter how fast the pellet is going, or what its caliber is, if you miss. I plan to purchase a more accurate air rifle in the future. One gun I have been considering is the Diana RWS 54. I am kind of waiting to see if they are going to come out with a version of the RWS 460 Magnum with a recoilless floating action like the RWS 54 has. Such a gun would be even more interesting if it were also available in .25 caliber. Although right now, based on RWS Model 54 Air King pellet performance tests, apparently the most accurate pellets are the Crosman Premier .22 calibers, so that would be a reason for sticking with .22 caliber versus .25 caliber. At this time I don't think Crosman makes their accurate Premier pellets in .25 caliber.

Like you said, the better air rifles are considerably expensive. I'll stick with my el cheapo Gamo for awhile.


    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 3:04AM
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korney19(z6a Buffalo, NY)

What about the Norinco KL-3B Side Cocking Air Rifle .177 Cal., 850fps for $34.95?

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 3:59AM
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>>>By the way the law you quoted specifically says you cannot relocate a woodchuck to state land, only to private property with the owner's permission.

Like I said things have changed. I was specifically told State Land was OK, that was 3 years ago. Like I said you are allowed to relocate wildlife, just some of the parameters have changed.

>>>By the way a pellet gun is not a firearm.


"Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, assault firearm, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid projectile, ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas, or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 6:31AM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)


HERE is upcountry South Carolina, Pickens County, about 25 miles WNW of Greenville at about 1000 feet ASL.

HERE in the county or country you can fire ANYTHING as long as you are on your own property. My neighbor shot a nice deer from his front porch this past year. Deer season runs from mid August until the first of mid January.
In other words this is GOD's country and guns are TOOLS

I have a .177 semi-auto CO2 12 shot pellet gun and it launches them at about 750 or so fps. I use a hollow-point pellet that weights about 7.9 grains. I have re-sighted it in to allow me to put them in a 1/2 dollar circle at about 10 to 15 yards.

The RWS is a far better weapon than a Gamo

IMHO a .25 would be better than a .22 due to the heavier weight pellet. I am of the old school: big heavy bullets kill.

Remember that if it goes faster than the speed of sound you will have a report.

SEEING THEM: Right, you have got to see them, but I just look out the window and if they are there and the wind is from them to me I just slip out the front door and ease around the side of the house and pop them. After the first shot they run, but with the semi-auto I just keep shooting. Ideally I would have a .22 rim fire and it would then be over, but shot of funds since the bankruptcy. prior to that I had every thing from a .458 win mag down and over 60 shotguns. The court loved me for that. I was not able to hide many as I had most of them listed on my insurance policy. This was a good thing when Hurricane Andrew came thru in 1992 and I lived in South Florida. I had 5 of my best shotguns out in hard cases and they got wet. A matched pair of Belgium 12 gauge Superposed Brownings, a matched pair of Winchester model 101's three barrel sets and a Krieghoff drilling. All fitted to me the old LEFT HANDED SHOOTER. It cost the Insurance company $13,500 to restock and reblue those 5 weapons. They were really nice guns. All the others were in steel safes and since Andrew was a relatively dry storm they were all fine, however the insurance paid to have EVERYONE OF THEM cleaned. I had a really good policy so it would seem. Replacement value on the house and ITS CONTAINS. "Get Met, It Pays"

I can not see myself living in a state with restrictive gun laws and the last place I would live would be NYC.

HOW New Hampshire is different "Live free or Die" That I can ID with.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 7:28AM
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i have heard of several unconventional methods for curing this problem,one is to put spearmint chewing gum in their hole, they will swallow it and it will clog them up and kill them, also put hot peppers in their hole and they will move somewhere "cooler" i have even heard of one crazy person that put gasoline down their hole and lit it on fire... he must have really been fed up!!! i wouldn't recommend the last one. i use a product called Shotgun Liquid-Repellent made by bonide. it keeps away deer, skunks, cats, birds, groundhogs and many other pesty things. it lasts up to 2 months. it is all natural and neither harms the animal or the plants, its smell slightly burns the nasal passages (and mouth if they bite it) making it unpleasent and they don't come back. this is my second season using it and i no longer have deer that come to my yard and skunks that dig it up looking for grubs. i think it smells like a spicy slim jim, but it works. good luck. sarah

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 9:01AM
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Managing Woodchuck Problems

Robert A. Pierce II
Department of Fisheries and Wildlife Sciences
Ron McNeely
Missouri Department of Conservation

The woodchuck (Marmota monax) is one of Missouri's most abundant mammals. Often called a groundhog or whistle-pig, the woodchuck can be found in open pastures, woodlots, cultivated and fallow fields, and along railroad embankments, ditch banks, roadsides, fence rows and levees.
Woodchucks are known for building extensive underground burrow systems. This activity often provides refuge for other game and fur bearing animals, such as rabbits, raccoons, skunks and foxes.
However, when woodchucks move from abandoned pastures and woodlots into cropland, gardens and orchards, the burrowing activity and feeding behavior can damage crops, interfere with farm operations and cause damage to equipment as well as pose hazards to livestock.

Figure 1

Woodchuck burrows typically have two or more entrances.

Biology and behavior
Woodchucks are members of the squirrel family. When these heavy-bodied rodents are surprised, they typically emit a loud, shrill whistle and dive into a burrow; hence the name whistle-pig. Adult woodchucks are stocky animals weighing between five and ten pounds. They have short, powerful legs, small ears, and a short, bushy tail. The body fur is long, coarse, and grizzled grayish brown in color. There are four clawed toes on each front foot and five toes on each hind foot. Like other rodents, they have a pair of large, chisel-like front teeth.
Good woodchuck habitat can be found throughout Missouri. Woodchucks prefer a mixture of open farmland, woods, fence rows and roadsides. They live in burrows usually located in fields, along roadsides, at the base of trees and around building foundations. Main entrances to burrows are easily identified by mounds of excavated dirt adjacent to a 10- to 12-inch-diameter hole. Burrow systems are extensive and each system has at least two entrances. Some secondary entrances are difficult to find because they are dug from below ground and do not have the mounds of dirt beside them (Figure 1). These entrances often serve as escape routes. Burrow systems may be five feet deep and 25 to 30 feet in total length.

Woodchucks use burrows for mating, hiding from predators and hibernating. One branch of the burrow system leads to a nest chamber containing dried grass. This dead-end nest chamber is sealed with soil during the winter and serves as a hibernation chamber.

Woodchucks are most active during early morning and late afternoon when they are feeding. They are vegetarians and eat a variety of grasses and broad-leafed weeds, including dandelions and plantains. They are particularly fond of legumes, including clover, alfalfa, vetch, peas and beans. Adults typically consume between...

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 10:34AM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

>> What about the Norinco KL-3B Side Cocking Air Rifle .177 Cal., 850fps for $34.95?

I just ordered one today I will let you know how it shoots.

The Chinese airguns vary all over the place in quality but the better ones are very, very accurate and the quality of construction is surpisingly good. Often they are a copy or a clone of an RWS or some other European air rifle. The TechForce Chinese pellet guns are way overpriced in my opinion, you can get the exact same air rifle for much less from South Summit or Dauvens.

By the way kkfromnj, I see your point: the NJ "legislature" in their wisdom may pass a law that an air gun is a firearm in the state of New Jersey. But that does not make it an actual firearm. If an airgun were a firearm, a person would not be able to order one from another state and have them ship it to your house by UPS, unless you happen to have a Federal Firearms License. Be that at it may, if you live in New Jersey you can't get one anyway thank your state legislature for that. So your options are limited.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 2:03PM
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The one comment I ran into. It said that if the pellet goes faster than the speed of sound then it loses accuracy. this speed is about 1100 fps. so I can guess that there is an advantage to staying below the speed of sound and moving into the bigger calibers.

Also Energy is half mass times velocity squared. So the smaller pellet of higher speed should have more energy. But the information says for hunting you want the bigger one because the smaller one just goes through without damage and the animal walks off and dies weeks later. The bigger one should stop the animal in his tracks so he does not run off.

I guess the top guns are running $500 and $600 for an air gun. Amazing. I am sure you could get a 22 rim fire for low cost.

I have pretty much decided that kkfromnj is right. I need to make a dirt patch inside the trap for his feet to feel good as he walk in. So off I go.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 4:00PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

At sea level and at 70 degrees F the speed of sound is 1128 feet per second. I still believe that large diameter and heavy projectels kill better than the little high velocity ones. Go on Korey, spring for a pellet gun. They are plenty powerful. I know, I still have a .177 pellet in my calf right down next to the bone. The doctors opped to leave it in as it wasn't bothering anything. In fact, it hardly bleed at all and only hurt when I filled the hole with alcohol LOL

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 4:31PM
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OK Ole Dawg

What is the best bet. the article says 22 cal is the best for hunting. but I dont want to go to $600 that is simply too much.

How about a good one for under $200. I would think we could get something effective at that price. I dont need fancy just useful. I have a job to do and that is all.


I went out and put dirt on the floor of the trap. WOW it really looks 100 times better. It was easy to do and it definitely looks super good. I think this is the key. I also put in some lettuce and a whole apple not cut up.

Today was only 88 and the next few days will be 95 to 100. real hot and the bait just does not last well in the heat. I want to change the bait again early in the morning. right now it is 4:45 and late enough to wait for more fresh bait tomorrow.

When I was a kid back in the 1950's we had a 22 pellet rifle and shot the squirrels. never hurt them at all. although we shot one out of a tree but he simply ran off. The dumb pump gun had no power back then. Also it would work fairly well for a week or so and then really lost power. I think we had 3 of them. all went bad quickly.

So these are the reasons I have never bought one again. I dont need a super $$ gun that lasts a week and then can not hold the air pressure.

but I found it effective to trap out the squirrels. low cost and easy. they could not resist peanuts in a shell.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 4:56PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Go to the sites shown by Maine Man. I bought mine at Kmart several years ago. It uses CO2 cartridges and I have used the hell out of it shooting squirrels and pigeons with it. One cartridge is good for 40 or 50 shots and it holds the pressure pretty well. I keep it loaded with a new cartridge, but unpierced so that when I see something to shoot I just screw down the cap and I have full power and a clip with 12 pellets in it. 12 shots as fast as you can pull the trigger. Works for me even though I have yet to kill a hog with it. I am hitting them, but not killing them YET.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 6:30PM
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I just trapped a ground hog this afternoon. My bait was a quater cut of green cabage and some pineapple peels from the kitchen, nothing fancy. It took 5 days for this hog to return, and my bait was not so fresh anymore. At first I thought he was scared by my trap which I laid at the spot where a few days ago he dug a hole to get in and devastated my soybean plants. But I finally got him, what a relief! I must say, I have to struggle with ground hogs almost every year, but I never fail to catch them by Hav-a-hart trap.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 7:23PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)


Here is a .22 airgun for $82 that shoots a 14.5 grain pellet at 750 fps.

Here is a link that might be useful: Air Gun Inc Chinese Air Rifle .22cal Light Cocking w/Wood Stock (750FPS) AF1000MAGBS

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 8:46PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Go to and search their site for "air Rifles" I just looked and they have a number of good combos of rifles and scopes that are quite good and reasonablly priced. I good air rifle will last for years and you will find your second childhood with one. They are just fun to shoot and the lack of noise is a very good point.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2007 at 10:19PM
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Lots of good info in that post for newbie hog trappers. One of the reasons IÂve had success is the hogs are "funneled" to the trap. My yard is fenced with chain link. IÂve only witnessed 1 climb the fence (also saw one 7 foot up a tree munching on leaves) They enter the same corner all the time. Of course the trap is about a foot away, they canÂt miss it. I even tied the bottom of the fence up a little so the big ones could fit. Once I see activity (the pushed up dirt is moved) I hang a stalk or 2 of broccoli above the entrance on the outside of the fence as added incentive. Over the last 2 ½ years I saw lots of groundhog behavior (way too much time on my hands). Saw the majority trip the trap. Once a gh adds my yard to his daily menu they seem to come back about the same time everyday. Sometimes it takes several visits before he comes in the yard and then several more before its comfortable with the trap, sometimes they go right in and trip the trap and sometimes they eat right up to the trip plate then come back tomorrow. If I see one come in the yard, eat some of the bait then move away towards my garden, I scare him away and add some more bait. Many times he comes back within 15-20 minutes.

If you use the "lightly cover the bottom with dirt" trick keep in mind they can carry rabies. Once trapped they often "GO", which IÂm sure contains all kinds of nasty stuff. The dirt must become contaminated, change the dirt, move the trap, wear some gloves or wash your hands pretty quick and really good.

If you transport them, keep in mind they always seem to pick that time to relieve themselves, maybe the ride in the trunk scares the crap out of them. Take appropriate precautions.

For me catching them is as easy as 1,2,3.

1. Find out what they are eating
2. Get them to the front door
3. Invite them in

    Bookmark   June 26, 2007 at 6:56AM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Well my two have not been back in a week so maybe the head shots with the pellet gun gave them "Headaches" LOL. I also spread some bubble gum just in case that old wives tale was in fact true. Since I have hollow point pellets I have been giving some thought to the possibility of adding some kind of poison to the "hollow" part but I don't know what I might have that would work.
Darn it is a shame that I didn't bring back a couple of poison arrow frogs from when I worked in the Amazon in 1998

    Bookmark   June 26, 2007 at 7:10AM
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FIRST I have to say Congratulations to annie-lee. Nice job. Glad you got the bugger.

Ole Dawg. I dont want a gun that bounces off him. I want him to explode and lay down dead. Maybe I can get an old used anti tank rocket launcher to blow them up. haha.

I am buying some small heads of cabbage for bait next time at the store. Peaches also. I will use with my bag of apples. Oh Yes some Broccoli.

I have to get over to Wal Mart. they do sell air guns. I never looked at them. But now I know a bit more about what to look for. Wal Mart should have some reasonable prices and save on shipping etc. But they might not have a good one. They might have only cheap ones.

From reading the CO2 seem to give multiple shots. But you are now saying they are not high enough energy output.

Yes the bigger pellet has better killing power because it produces a shock on impact. the small ones simply go right through and dont do any damage unless they hit a vital spot.

I still need a little research on this. I still hope to trap them out and not spend money on a airgun.

I like the idea of Poison Arrow Frogs. Off to the Amazon. Amazing all this to get a darn ground pig. haha.

There is a chance that the pellet went into the woodchuck and it dies weeks later. Not a very good way to die.

I think as long as you stay below the speed of sound the noise from firing the gun is low. It must be the shock wave from breaking the speed of sound that makes the big noise. I just went and checked the trap. Nothing. But mice or chipmunks seem to be eating the bait. they took most of the apple. 4:30 PM. and super hot today. 95 F.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Hunter's Choice

    Bookmark   June 26, 2007 at 4:26PM
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This gun will shoot a 200 grain 50 caliber bullet. I suspect it might kill a deer. That is kind of a deer bullet.

The gun is pumped up to 3000 pounds per square inch with an electric compressor.

This gun will blow your groundhogs away Ole Dawg.

Here is a link that might be useful: Big Hunter Air Gun

    Bookmark   June 26, 2007 at 4:39PM
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This is probably the ultimate way to get rid of woodchucks. However for some reason it is not recommended for woodchucks.

Watch the action packed video of the end of gophers and try not to laugh too hard. this is really funny.

They claim this is a 2007 Small Business Award winner.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hit them hard and fast

    Bookmark   June 26, 2007 at 4:42PM
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Here is a You Tube Groundhog

this is very short.

Here is a link that might be useful: Groundhog on You Tube

    Bookmark   June 26, 2007 at 4:52PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Kmart and Sports Authority are good also. Go with a .22 if you can find one. Look for the heaviest pellet they have and practice a little.
You may be right, I probably put a serious dent in their heads and they might have gone off and died. The should have thought about death before they came into my lettuce garden.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2007 at 5:52PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

I just ordered that AR1000 Magnum air rifle in .22 caliber for $82 (that I mentioned above) that is 750 fps in .22 cal. I will let you guys know when I get a chance to test.

For .22 pellets the heaviest that I know of is the Eu Jin which is 28.4 grains or double the weight of a regular .22 pellet. In case you want to go moose hunting with the pellet gun.

Their .177 pellets are 16.1 grain which is a bit heavier than a regular .22 pellet. I am going to try these with a .177 airgun. It "should" be able to shoot these no problem.

Also the there is the Beeman Kodiak which is 21 grains or about 50% heavier than a normal .22 pellet.

By the way guys I did a little research and the AR1000 Magnum air rifle is the SAME RIFLE as the Beeman GS1000 that sells for $275, except the AR1000 stock is not as fancy, it does not have the checkering on the stock. Same rifle, from the same factory in China.

Here is the $82 AR1000 Magnum

Here is the $275 Beeman GS1000 (same rifle, fancier stock)

[It is also a clone of the RWS 94 that also sells for $250 with the plain looking stock]

So the big names are selling this same rifle for 3 times the price.

Here is a link that might be useful: AR1000 Magnum

    Bookmark   June 27, 2007 at 12:34PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

K from NH,
That is very interesting. Is it a break barrel or lever cock? It looks real nice for that price. Hell I might even be interested on one so let us know how it goes.
1eyedJack and the Dawg

    Bookmark   June 27, 2007 at 5:23PM
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One Chinese rifle that does make the list is the AR1000 Magnum. I have tested it, and it's a world-beater. Fully the equal of the Beeman R1, this Chinese breakbarrel has good looks, power and accuracy going for it. The powerplant is smooth and free of most vibration. For the power, this is also one of the easiest rifles to cock.

    Bookmark   June 27, 2007 at 9:26PM
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I just saw a flat light coloured stocky animal duck through a burrowed hole under my fence--it had a short ringed tail but was definitely not a raccoon. Do Groundhogs have rings on their tails??



    Bookmark   June 27, 2007 at 11:19PM
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It might help to know where you live. But I will assume that Groundhogs are plentiful in your area.

I think the far west and california might have some other animals that might qualify.

However, set up your trap by the hole and you will catch him and get a good look.

If it happened around here in New England I would say it has to be a Woodchuck. They are the worst thing to get into your garden except maybe a racoon in a sweet corn area. But then racoons are super easy to trap. Woodchucks are super hard to catch. Racoons will also decimate your chickens if they have the opportunity.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2007 at 12:04AM
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I went and purchased a small head of cabbage. cut a geneous chunk off and with a whole apple baited the trap again. So far still nothing. The dirt is still on the lead into the trap but not on the trip plate. I removed the growing lettuce from the trap.

The last time I baited the trap I Put in a growing lettuce in a small pot into the trap for bait. It did not work. it was a Nevada lettuce. looked real good to me.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2007 at 12:45PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

If I was a groundhog I would have eaten it. Delisious (SP)
Face the fact Korey, You are going have to become a hunter. If you can not do it, send me a ticket and I will do it for you. I don't eat much. Salads will do fine for me. I am good at shooting. In one day in Argentina, using a pair of 28 gauge over and unders I killed 1002 doves. GOD I love it! Two day total 1745 with 3525 shotshells.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2007 at 2:34PM
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Second the Bublicious gum as the best death plug for the GHs. Never heard of spearmint gum-it usually does not have the 'elastics' of bubblegum.

Another killer is bacon fat soaked small pieces of sponge. I buy the packet of sponges from dollar tree and cut them in 1"x 1/2" x 1/2" and soak them with salty bacon fat. GHs LOVE salt. They eat the sponge pieces which lead to their demise. I only put out 3-4 sponge or bubblicious pieces near their holes (if I can find them) or along their trails. Trails usually indicated by matted grasses.

Also noticed an absence of GHs after spilling salty potato chips in their trails.

Extra bacon fat soaked sponges can go into the freezer for the next invasion.

These worked for me whereas, the Havahart is still without success.
cella jane

    Bookmark   June 28, 2007 at 10:50PM
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Good News Bad News All the Same News

Well a growing cabbage was eaten in the garden. I looked around and found a huge hole in the ground not too far away. The hole is big enough for an elephant so it is a big one. It left a trail of dry soil a good over 3 feet long from the hole. This guy was digging like a champ. I want to get an in the hole bomb to smoke him.


You have some most interesting comments. I thought that groundhogs were pure vegetarians. I do have a new puppy dog that runs around the yard. I must be very careful with anything that might hurt my puppy. So I do not feel free to use poisons. My puppy would certainly go for the fat.

It seems to me that if bacon fat soaked sponges would be eaten then they would take peanut butter. My impression is they will not eat peanut butter.

when you say salty bacon grease. do you add extra salt to the fat. I do not eat bacon so I would have to purchase some to cook. maybe a different fat would work.

With the bublicious do you chew it first a bit or just use it new. I tried some sticks of gum last year and only got lots of ants on the gum.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2007 at 7:07AM
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I have no worries about relocating rodents to state forest and/or conservation lands, both of which are in abundance hereabouts. I've released about eight rats in the past couple months. They will learn to eat what a rat eats without help from humans or starve - it's no longer my business.

Simple snap-traps surely work well for rats. The other day I'd simply had enough of the fifty or so rats around my compost pile so I put out two snaps with peanut butter. Got two within a minute. Reset them and got TWO rats in each trap in less than five minutes. I havn't hardly seen one since so I guess six is enough for now. Before they were gamboling about the yard in mid-day like housepets.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2007 at 7:57AM
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>>>>Well a growing cabbage was eaten in the garden

ThatÂs good now you know its eating cabbage, use it as bait. Move the trap close to the hole with a trail of cabbage; put most in the trap a little leading to the trap. I havenÂt seen a new hole for 2 years but would always fill it back in, figured it would keep him busy, less time to eat stuff, its probably a new den, not very big (volume), if you catch him in it you can drown/smoke him. Chances are if you see him heÂll go right in the new hole if you approach.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2007 at 8:00AM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

korney19: My Norinco KL-3B .177 air rifle arrived yesterday. Here is my first impression (so far, so good).

I did a quick cleaning of the barrel this morning. The inside and outside of the gun including the stock is packed in greasy brown oil when you get it. I cleaned the barrel with cloth patches soaked with Goo Gone and followed up with dry patches until it is clean.

The breech has a lot of the grease in it when you open the breech. I turned the rifle upside down and sprayed WD-40 to wash away the extra grease, then sprayed Blaster GDL (Garage Door Lube) which is a silicone dry lubricant. There is still some grease but not as much. The trick is to not get the WD-40 in the internal workings.

The rifle comes with a users guide: it is written by a Chinese person and some of the English a bit quaint, but you can figure it out. There are a lot of diagrams.

The KL-3B is very heavy I estimate 7 pounds and feels very substantial and heavy duty. It is built like a tank. Everything is all metal and wood even the trigger and trigger guard. The only plastic part is the butt pad which is hard plastic. The metal parts are fitted very well but not finely burnished, it is a bit rough around the edges. The bluing looks cheap. I am going to put some 3-in-1 oil on it to protect it. The finish on the stock is glossy and a little rough on it but looks nice and is fine for a field gun. The iron sights are very good and have windage and elevation adjustments with click stops, and the front site is enclosed in a ring. There is a trigger safety on the side. When you charge the rifle the side lever locks in the open position with the breech open so you can load the pellet. Last night I bought a cheap tin of Crossman Hunting pellets in .177. These are not the Crossman Premiers, they are just cheap garden variety pellets with a pointy nose.

The rifle looks like this:

I shot this "free squirrel target" from 40 feet away using the iron sights, about 10 pellets this morning just to sight it in. From 40 feet away with iron sights I can get the shots into the outer 2 rings of this squirrel target with a group the size of a quarter. [When you print the target the outermost black ring is 1-3/4" across]. I got a cheap scope with it for $12 but I haven't mounted it yet. Maybe do not even need the scope. These rifles you need to shoot maybe 500 pellets through them to full break in the metal parts and they get smoother and more accurate. The trigger pull is stiff that will need to wear in too.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2007 at 12:04PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

WHAT!? No ground hog target? Send it back

    Bookmark   June 29, 2007 at 3:20PM
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Here is a link that might be useful: Another Victim

    Bookmark   June 29, 2007 at 5:09PM
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I sent you an email. I hope you can respond.



    Bookmark   June 29, 2007 at 8:50PM
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koreyk, and others...sorry to not be detailed.

Groundhogs love salt-but it is like a poison to them. They also love bacon fat. I never buy pork bacon exscept to get the fat for the fat soaked sponges. I sometimes add more kosher salt or sea salt to the sponges. They are always gone by the next day.

The bubblicious gum is simply separated from the 5 piece pack. Individual pieces are NOT unwrapped. Just drop them where you note the 'trails' or holes. I do know that squirrels and chipmunks also eat the bubblicious and die from their well as any other rodents.

Very seldom have I been able to locate two holes for a GH den. There are always 2 or more. Trails have always been easily found in areas I have lived. When I lived in MD, the foxes shared dens with the GHs. 50 years ago, ecologists said the fox and GH were enemies and never shared spaces.

Really appreciate the details on shooting the GHs. Had a neighbor once who sat on her deck and fired at the GHs in the pastures. If GHs show up at this new place, will use all the info to 'get armed.' Around here, coyotes are all about. Heard from someone that I should have a radio going full time to protect poultry from those critters.

No eden or nirvana, for farmers!
cella jane

    Bookmark   June 29, 2007 at 9:43PM
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I have been trapping and executing groundhogs for years. The bait is peaches. Nice, ripe peaches. Forget bubblegum and all the rest, if you bait with peaches you will have a groundhog in 24 hours. You still need a pellet gun for the coup de grace.

Do not try to pick up the trap when the hog is in there. He will come blasting out the door. Fire into the trap.

Try it, and let us know how it works.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

    Bookmark   June 29, 2007 at 10:28PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

Hi koreyk sorry I do not read or respond to emails sent through Gardenweb nothing personal it is just one of those profile settings I set up about 5 years ago.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2007 at 10:48PM
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Please send me an email and we can then talk. I just now set it up so you can email to me.

Jelly Man

You may be right. Peaches are the secret. I was at the store to try some peaches and the nice ones were $3 a pound. I lost 3 apples in the last 3 days. I have to fix that problem. But I will get back to the store and get some peaches.

Good News Bad News Same News.

Yep you guessed it. I found a 2nd big hole and hide away in the yard in a difficult to find place. It looks like my yard is Woodchuck Motel.

Well it is good to find out they are there. It is bad to have them there. But now at least I can work on the problem. So far there are at least 2 dens in my yard. I suspect there are more off the property. The entire town is infested with them.

Does anyone know where I can get a million billion volts and stick it down the hole and when he trys to come up. ZAPPO one instant barbequed wood chuck.


when I get to the store I have to try some bubble gum and bacon and sponge with salt added. I tried some regular doublemint gum last year but I unwrapped the gum and put it on the ground and the ants ate it. it got soft and mushy. I gave up on the gum. none of it was ever eaten. But next visit to the store and I will get some bubblegum. And I will try to not unwrap it.

Bye the way. I have 2 traps. I have a Havahart that I modified and the one I mentioned at the top of this thread. I brought out the Havahart today. kind of an old mess, but I have to work on getting it working. That should double my chances. I really like the other one much better than the Havahart.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2007 at 12:29AM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

koreyk my meaning is, my communication with other Gardenweb members is pretty much limited to what I post here on the public forums. I don't like emails much, except with family members. Anyway if you had some more questions just ask it here I can try to answer it or maybe somebody else will.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2007 at 1:25AM
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that is fine. I respect your privacy. So lets just see how it works out.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2007 at 4:47PM
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I set up the Havahart trap by the first hole. I baited it with a whole apple and a broccoli plant in a pot. probably 10 to 12 inches tall. I layed it down inside and it looks good. extends a little onto the trip plate.

Bye the way I saw him near this hole at 6 am this morning he was in the pepper patch.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2007 at 4:54PM
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Happy Hunting/Trapping

    Bookmark   June 30, 2007 at 5:04PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

Hey guys: Check out this target I shot today when I mounted the scope on the new Chinese KL-3B .177 pellet gun that I just got. Six shots free hand at 50 foot range, in a 1" group. Not too shabby for a $35 Chinese air rifle that's fresh out of the box don't you think?

This air rifle can hit the target and at 850 fps, it should be more than adequate for weeding out the squirrels and the chipmunks. The trigger is very stiff with a real heavy trigger pull it is brand new I hope it will break in and quit giving me blisters LOL.

The .22 AR1000 Magnum that I ordered from Dauven's Fishin' Hole for $82 is still on order. Can't wait for that to arrive, they have an adjustable 2-stage trigger with about a 2 pound break.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2007 at 9:27PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Triggers are a huge part in the accuracy equation. My favorite deer rifle was a Rem 700 Classic in .250 Savage. I had that fitted with an adjustable Shilen trigger and I had it set to break about just a little over 2 lbs. Off the bench with my handloads I could get 5 shots strings you could cover with a nickel on a good day and a quarter the rest of the time. I hunted from tree stands or free standing stands and I always tried for a head shot when the opportunity presented itself. ie. the deer standing still and within a 100 yards or less. I never crippled a deer shot that way and they always dropped right there on the spot AND YES, I was using a rest or I would not try the shot.
NH man, that is excellent shooting with an El Cheapo. Take the trigger apart and try and stone the shear or even apply some valve grinding compound to the surfaces. It will do wonders to work in a stiff break

    Bookmark   June 30, 2007 at 10:22PM
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korney19(z6a Buffalo, NY)

Will the KL-3B .177 take out a big 'hog at say... 30-40 feet?

    Bookmark   June 30, 2007 at 10:38PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

Personally, I would not rely on a .177 to shoot an animal the size of a woodchuck beyond close range (unless it was a magnum .177 air rifle shooting those really heavy pellets -- but the KL-3B is not a magnum). For chipmunks and squirrels however, sure the KL-3B is fine. A .22 pellet gun would be the better choice for woodchucks.

If you caught one in a trap and are using a pellet gun to dispatch it the KL-3B would be fine but now we are talking point blank range.

Now the AR1000 Magnum airun in .22 on the other hand, that is a completely different story. I would have confidence shooting at woodchucks around the yard with one of those.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2007 at 4:54AM
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I have been doing some searching and reading on the air guns. I suspect that Kubota is correct. I think he paid about $35 for the KL-3B and the AR1000 is $82. or about $50 more but why buy both. may as well get the right one the first time. $82 is not going to break the bank and there will never be a real need to buy the KL-3B.

There are some inherent problems with hunting and basically the solutions revolve around more speed and larger bullet. The AR1000 delivers both.

Here is one way to get an idea. You want to deliver energy with the bullet. The more energy the better. But the gun has to deliver the energy to the bullet therefore it has to be built better to deliver more energy.

Energy is half the mass times the velocity squared. Therefore to double the velocity from 500 ft per second to 1000 ft per second one has to find a way to deliver 4 times the energy to the bullet. That is not easy to do. 4 times more energy from pumped up air.

The basic idea is to deliver the maximum energy when hunting. From everything I have read recently, I have to agree with Kubota. The AR1000 is the choice for woodchucks in the yard. You also want to pick the special pellet correctly. You want a heavy pellet for hunting. I guess the heavier the better. Then I would want to mount a scope to increase accuracy. Next do some practice target shooting and get the scope all lined up and off you go into the yard and hope you get a good shot at the woodchuck.

Apparently we could purchase 5 of them from the factory. Hopefully at a much lower price. then share the cost. Ole Dawg do you want to be the interface on that. I will take one for sure if you do. I suspect you will want one. I am sure the other 3 will go fast.

I believe it is legal to buy these and sell them. If not legal then we should not do it. Also if you have all 5 already spoken for before ordering then you are not really selling them. You are forming a group to purchase and the group purchases together to save money and no sales occur. Make sure everyone is at least 18. no kids on this one.

one last thing. if the gun shoots at 1000 ft per second and we double the weight of the bullet then the velocity will drop to one over the square root of 2 or .707 of the velocity or 707 ft per second.

if the original velocity of the 22 was 750 ft per second and the weight of the bullet doubles then it will drop to .707 times 750 or 530 ft per second. So if you are going to shoot big heavy bullets you want to start with a Magnum. the AR1000 is a Magnum.

One can purchase guns that deliver more than the AR1000 Magnum. The problem is that the price goes up very fast. Therefore the AR1000 seems to be the best choice on a price basis for what you get.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2007 at 9:04AM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

I will email you privately on this one.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2007 at 9:08PM
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A month ago I caught the groundhog, who had leaved in my backyard for at least three years, with a HAVEAHART trap. I baited it with a honeydew and Granny Smith apples. It took about a week for the groundhog to get caught. I had to change the bait several times. But I have to tell you this -- it ended up being a cruel and unusual way to kill that darn animal. It must have got caught early in the morning and by the time we got home the poor thing was baked in the sun to death. So if you won't to get rid of them in humane way, please keep my experience in mind. Though, people who advice us on relocating the neusance wildlife said that groundhogs are very territorial, and after relocation their chance for survival are poor.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2007 at 9:10PM
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I am home all day and in the garden all the time. That would never happen to me. I just need to catch them.

I should update. by the hole one of the Santa Sweet grape tomato plants was half eaten. he hit it hard. it is very close to the cabbage that he ate a couple of days previous. It was about 5 feet from where I saw him at 6 am the other day.

The apples keep disappearing. I am frustrated over that. something now seems to walk off with the entire apple. lost one from both traps the last 2 days.

I would keep the trap baited or your eyes open. There might have been more than one in that hole he was living in.

Maybe tomorrow is the day.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2007 at 11:49PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

had no luck ordering the AR1000 Magnum air rifle from Dauven's Fishin' Hole. After holding onto my order for a week and holding my funds in limbo they cancelled the order saying it was out of stock. I re-ordered from a different dealer who shall remain nameless until they deliver the goods.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 3:52AM
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>>>Though, people who advice us on relocating the neusance wildlife said that groundhogs are very territorial, and after relocation their chance for survival are poor.

I have a different take on that. I live in one of the most densely populated areas of the US. Lots are typically 50Â by 100Â. When groundhogs are way less than a year old, they set out on their own or are kicked out to find their own territory. Finding their own territory is just another why to describe relocation. They relocate themselves instead of me relocating them and they survive just fine, in fact they are thriving. Last year I caught 15 groundhogs in such a densely populated area. When they move on do you think they find areas where groundhogs donÂt live? They seem to relocate just fine especially when you consider the thousands of undeveloped areas in the NJ Meadowlands. Now if somebody can quote mortality rates for relocated groundhogs I may alter my views. Instead of just killing them which so many people seem to condone, I say survival of the fittest. Oh, one more thing concerning the 50Â by 100Â plots. Could you imagine towns in my area allowing people to discharge firearms on their property where if a bullet travels 1000Â it could cross 20 other peopleÂs property?

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 8:12AM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

No I can not imagine people discharging firearms within a town and no one that has posted here has done so. The talk has been of using pellet rifles if one lives within an established neighborhood. Pellets do not travel 1000'feet and even if they did the terminal velocity/energy would harm no one. HOWEVER at closer range they should be treated just like a normal rifle. THey are powerful and they will wound you. I know as I have a .177 pellet right down close to the bone in my right calf. That is over 2 1/2 inches and closer to 3" so yes they do need to be treated carefully. Used responsibally they are quite safe to shot in a city and I imagine that it is done so without many people's knowledgee because they are quiet. As far as killing them goes that is a personal matter. If you don't want to kill them don't. However if you do than that is your business and no ones elses. To each his own.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 8:44AM
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Well, IÂm not going to waste my time going through the previous posts but there were posts concerning "what the NJ rulers have decreed" and "Gods country" and "I could never live there". I got news for you or anybody else, this is Gods country too, even without guns. Let me check the Bible about Jesus weapons. And as far as "to each his own", "what the NJ rulers have decreed" and "Gods country" speaks for itself concerning "to each his own". Where were your comments then? Too busy polishing your gun drooling over the next blood kill? I never said anything and never will about gun owners. Simple its inappropriate for this area. Even with a pellet gun, if I discharge it in the middle of my property, 25 from my 2 neighbors, I live on the corner, how much damage do you think it could do to the child next door? Just an eyeball? ThatÂs not to bad is it DOG?

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 9:26AM
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Hmm, glad I grew up in the country, I really think shotguns are probably the best solution. (As far as the person who wants to see their woodchuck utterly destroyed, I recommend the 12 gage deer slug, the trick is hitting them with it...(My father grabbed the wrong ammunition and did a remarkable job of shooting, small game shot is much better for the job.))However, if these aren't viable options than I would suggest gas or water. The first secret to using water or "woodchuck bombs" (no idea what brand name they are sold under these days) is to find all the entrances to their tunnels, there will always be at least two, and finding the hidden back door is often difficult.

To bomb effectively you need to plug all the "back doors" and then drop the "bomb" down the main door and cover that. The best effect we ever achieved was with water, but we are not talking about small amounts, but a lot of water poured in quickly. We found the back doors, plugged them carefully, and then poured water into the highest hole, as recommended by a magazine we had read at the time. We had a 30 gallon garbage can filled and a hose. I believe that the idea was to achieve not merely the drowning of the critters, but also to cause collapse and massive damage in the tunnels. The woodchucks usually do a good job of placing their holes away from the path of natural flooding, so apparently artificial flooding can do a lot of damage. It rid us of a large family of the critters. (A couple of days later we were doing some repairs and had leftover cement, we plugged the main hole with that, and between the cement and the destruction those tunnels were not used again.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 3:51PM
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I agree with most you say, I drown 1 and flooded the other until he busted out right next to the plugged hole. Depends on how much water your ground holds and the size of the hole. For those who donÂt know, groundhogs have several entrances/exits that are pretty visible, I.E. mounds of dirt. Like you said, one exit is hidden, NO MOUNDS OF DIRT VISIBLE, pretty sneaky critters. Another thing I read was that its very had to drown them in the DEN (as opposed to a hole they dig for protection in NEW territory) because the "bedroom" it raised above the level water rises. Like when overturn and submerge a glass of water in pot, no matter how deep you sink the overturned glass it canÂt fill up cause of the air at the top of the glass. Pretty sneaky critters.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 4:39PM
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My problem is catching one. This is the second summer with no success. my patience is worn thin. I am frustrated and get more willing to at least discuss and investigate different methods of solution.

So let us turn our attention to water down the hole.

One worry I have always had to try that was what to do if the woodchuck suddenly walked out of the hole right at me. Might be scary.

How much of the water did it take to fill the hole. How did you do it. did you run the hose and then pour in the water at the same time. did you pour from say 5 gallon buckets. how much water was used before it seemed to be filled up. etc.

I could run a garden hose to the hole. fill up a 30 gal barrel and give it a try. the hole diameter is very large and I wonder if 30 gal would even come close to filling it. what did the article you read say about this technique.

well I just found this with google.

This includes Oriental Wood Chuck and Gourmet Creamed Woodchuck.

Woodhucks, groundhogs, whistle pigs, pasture pigs, whatever you call them, have dark meat with a mild flavor and adapt readily to any squirrel or rabbit recipe. The fat is unobjectionable, but generally removed anyway. The 'chuck has scent glands high on the inside of the forelegs and in the small of the back, which must be removed. Generally only the older animals are parboiled or soaked before cooking, although some cooks soak woodchucks as a matter of course in cold salted water for 6 to 12 hours. Older 'chucks (worn teeth and claws are a good indication of age) benefit from parboiling in water to which 1/2 teaspoon or more of baking soda has been added. An adult will weigh 6 to 8 pounds.
Jacqueline E. Knight


Oriental Groundhog

Recipe By: Hunters Information Service

Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
1 Ground hog
2 quarts Water
1/4 cup Salt
1/2 cup Soy sauce
2 cloves Garlic whole
3 Hot chili peppers whole
1/4 Onion
1/4 teaspoon Paprika
1/4 bunch Parsley whole
4 Beef bouillon cubes
1/4 teaspoon Freshly-ground white pepper
1 cup Beef or chicken broth
Teriyaki glaze

Preheat oven to 325 degrees.

Cut meat into serving pieces and soak in 1 quart water and salt
for 3 hours. Transfer meat to 1 quart clear water and soak 4
hours. Drain and dry meat. Place meat in a baking pan with beef
broth, soy sauce, garlic cloves, chili pepper, onion, paprika,
parsley, bouillon cubes and white pepper. Cover and bake at 350
degrees for 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Baste frequently. Brush with
teriyaki glaze while cooking.


Waco Groundhog in Sour Cream

Recipe By: "Indian Cookin'", compiled by Herb Walker, 1977

Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
1 Groundhog, skinned & cleaned
1/2 cup Vinegar
1 tablespoon Salt
2 quarts Water
2 teaspoons Soda
1/2 cup Flour
1 teaspoon Salt

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 4:45PM
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This looks like a great solution. Very interesting idea.

I think snares require special wire and special technique. I have not read the article just yet. But it is interesting idea. One might set it up over the hole.

Here is a link that might be useful: Groundhog Snare

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 5:01PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Madam or Sir, I don't know which. It would seem that I have offended you. I am sorry that you took my comments personally. It was not my intent to offend anyone. My comments were of course IMHO as I have often stated in previous post. If you are femine please accept my most humble apology. If you are male learn to live with it. Only kidding :~)LOL
In all seriousness I will not respond even though I take except with some of your comments. It would serve no useful purpose so I will remain the gentleman that I am and let it die. Have a nice 4th of July and remember that the very first sessionest (SP?) were from New England. OH one final thought: Don't forget that it was Cain, the farmer, that rose up and slew his brother Abel, THE HUNTER,
because God prefered his offerings over Cain's. God loves us blood stained hunters BEST.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 6:58PM
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I do not understand a snare at all but this is much better but still not what I need to know what is going on here.

Ole Dawg well said. Best to not defend and just let it go. Anyway do you understand a snare. Maybe that is a cheap way to go.

Right now I am set up on 2 holes or a double hole. I have one trap all set so it can not leave without getting into the trap.

the other hole has to be open to allow him into the hole at night. But I have a 5 gal bucket of water that plugs the hole when set down nicely. So I intend to put the 5 gal bucket over the one hole after dark. then hope in the morning a woodchuck tries to exit out into the trap. The trap has a full apple for bait.

Fingers Crossed Hoping

I was wondering if I can go to an auto supply shop and buy a hose for the exhaust on the car and pump gas down the hole. it just might work.


Here is a link that might be useful: pictures of making snare

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 8:03PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

You don't need a special hose, just take the largest diameter garden hose you have and stick one end in the tail pipe and warp it with good Duct Tape. Do this while the engine is cold. Drop the other end into the hole and start your engine. When you first start up the engine emits more of the good nasty stuff.
NOW let's all put our thinking caps on and dream tonight of a way to ELECTRICUTE THEM!

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 9:00PM
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Thanks for the laugh Ole Dawg.

I thought the exhaust gets real real hot and would burn a normal hose. I have a piece of black sump pump hose. bigger diameter. I was going to throw it out at the dump. I will try that. might be fun. I like your idea of letting it get good and cool and the Duct Tape idea. Never would have thought of that.

On electricution it seems we need 2 wires down there separated. Now the normal electric fence gives a jolt of high voltage and hopefully low current so it does not kill. I dont know what it might take to kill the bugger. But sticking the wires down the hole seems a good idea.

Sort of the same idea as the snare loop at the hole. the hog has to go through the loop to exit the hole. so we want him to have to touch the two wires.

I can only guess we would want a capacitor to save up electricity for a big discharge. The fur on the animal does provide good insulation from the electric shock. So I think you have to have an electronic circuit to turn up the juices.

The "Power Supplies" for the electric fence come in different strengths. You would want one designed to electricute 25 miles of fence and then use only 6 inches of wire. hahaha.

I suspect that some of the electric fences could do a pretty good job of at least keeping him away.

Maybe have him walk on a metal plate and brush his head on a metal plate at the same time.

I like the idea of a switch to turn on the juice when he is wedged in there good and solid instead of just barely touching the wires.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 10:57PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

Happy Independence Day everyone. Here is today's Bible study on what Jesus teaches us about owning weapons, catching animals, cooking and eating them

Jesus told the disciples in Luke 23 that whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. The disciples were armed with swords. The disciples said "Lord, we have two swords" and Jesus said "That is enough".

We also learn from the same chapter that Jesus was a meat-eater not a vegan from this passage from Luke 22:7-8

7. Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed.
8. And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover for us, so that we may eat it."

Jesus also knew the best fishing spots because when Peter had bad luck fishing (in John chapter 21), Jesus said "Children, you do not have any fish, do you?" and told him where to cast their nets, and Peter came back with 153 fish. When the disciples returned from fishing Jesus was already there on the beach cooking some fish and bread over a charcoal fire. Jesus told Peter to bring some of the fish they caught and told them "Come and have breakfast."

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 8:40AM
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Before I used bubblicious and salty bacon fat sponges, I once used fermenting watery "would be" compost. At the time, I collected the daily scraps in five gallon buckets set at the edge of the garden. Really rank/malordorous stuff!

Discovered we had a human sized hole the GH had dug under our 26' camper (not used for two years). Tried smoke bombs and trapping without success. Also tried dumping a 30 gallon barrel of water into the success. Next, spilled the contents of three five gallon buckets of 'wanna-be compost' into this doorway. The hole was never reopened again.

A few months later, while pruning lower dead branches from a pine tree, I noted a GH hole..that appeared unused. Took more stinky compost and poured it in for insurance.

Did find one trying to make a den near some 200# landscape rocks-the bubble gum closed down that site.

Not sure if anyone mentioned. cayenne pepper sprinkled about the holes is another deterrent...nasty to the sniffer!
cella jane

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 10:05AM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Boy I'm glad I am not a ground hog.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 10:19AM
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well I do not want to move them around my property by chasing them out of holes. I want to move them a minimum of 10 miles away and across a major river. There is a huge wildlife place where they will be very happy.

It is not that I care about them living a good life. It is that I want them the H3LL out of here. And to be honest I would not mind if one of your guys wanted to come and pick it up and stir fry it oriental style. I know the Chinese love wild animal as food. Just ask next time you are at a Chinese Restaurant if they would like you to bring a live Woodchuck raccoon or some such and they will be all smiles.

Well so far still no luck. Both holes are plugged. One with a 5 gal bucket of water sitting in the hole so he can not push his way out. the other hole has the trap set so he would have to go through the hole and through the trap to exit his den. Maybe he has a 3rd hole. or is right now busy digging a new hole.

These buggers are not easy to catch.

I hope someone can post a picture. I dont know how to do it. But there is a funny picture I saw on the internet. let me see if I can find it.

That is the picture image. maybe someone can post it.

Actually the same picture is here and looking much better here.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 11:17AM
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Oh yes I forgot to say and I just remembered. Some one had another interesting solution. He said to get a lot of kitten litter. You can get 25 pound bag for about a dollar at wal mart and soak a big bottle of ammonia in the kitten litter. then put it down the hole. the idea of the kitten litter is to keep the smell for a much longer time. No self respecting groundhog wants to live in a hole of ammonia. do not use the entire bag of kitten litter. and you do not want just a surface wetness you want the ammonia to soak in deep so it lasts a long time.

This is not to kill him but to get him to go away.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 11:22AM
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This is posting # 96

Last year they only allowed 100 posts and then locked up the thread. So you would have to go to thread #2. So when this fills up I will immeditely start up a new thread #2. However, I saw one thread go to 150 to fill up. So I do not know what the present rules are on the number of posts. Anyway just look around if this fills up. Let me start up the new thread and I will reference back to this thread in the first posting.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 11:26AM
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this one is from another web site. I found it funny. especially the last sentence. Does anyone know the velocity on the Beeman R 9 air gun in 177. I found it. 930 fps in .177 but cost is from $350/$400 to $550 depending on scope etc. I guess. Heck the $82 dollar one is 1000 fps in .177 the Beeman uses a spring piston whatever that means.

woodchucks aren't that leery of people.

being somewhat dumb and slow, they are fairly easy prey to stalk with a .177 cal airgun. aim right for the ribs.

i can't tell you how many i've dispatched in the last few years with a scoped Beeman R-9 pellet gun.

I'm thinking of taking a few with a bow just for the challenge now.

they are most active during the day, and if you want to bait them leave them a little pile of clover to munch on while you dial in your cross hairs.
Preserve wildlife. Use freezer bags.

Here is a link that might be useful: Beeman R9 information

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 11:54AM
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Have to hand it to you Kubotabx you are consistent, consistently WRONG. First, in response to my post to Korey explaining how I catch groundhogs you jumped in with a bogus claim that I was breaking the law. I quoted NJ Fish and Game commission showing you clearly didnÂt know what you were talking about, you were just plain WRONG! Strike ONE.

Then, you said, "Pellet guns are not firearms" more bull, I quoted NJ statue showing pellets guns are Firearms. Strike TWO.

Just when I thought you couldnÂt tell a bigger whopper, you top yourself yet again. You are consistent, consistently WRONG. Strike THREE.

from The Gospel of the Perfect Life
Humata Verlag, Bad Homburg
And "The Gospel of Jesus," Verlag DAS WORT,
Rottweil 1968
(These texts are taken from "This Is My Word" Verlag DAS WORT)

Woe to the Hunters!

From Chap. 14

6. As Jesus went with some of His disciples, He met a man who trained dogs to hunt other animals. And He said to the man, "Why do you do this?" And the man answered, "Because I live from this. What sort of use have these animals? These animals are weak, but the dogs are strong." And Jesus said to him, "You lack wisdom and love. Behold, every creature that God has created has its meaning and purpose. And who can say what good there is in it or what use it is to you or to mankind?

7. And for your living, behold the fields, how they grow and are fertile, and the fruit-bearing trees and the herbs. What more do you want than what the honest work of your hands will give you? Woe to the strong who misuse their strength. Woe to the crafty who hurt the creatures of God! Woe to the hunters! For they themselves shall be hunted."

8. And the man was very astonished and stopped training the dogs to hunt; and he taught them to save life, not to destroy it. And he embraced the teachings of Jesus and became His disciple.

From Chap. 33

8. But I say to you: Shed no innocent blood and eat no flesh. Be upright, love mercy and do right, and your days will endure in the land for a long time. (Chap. 33)


So what does the Scripture say about hunters? There is no verse that says, "Thou shall not hunt," but there are, however, four hunters mentioned in the Bible.
The first is Nimrod (Is that your middle name Kubotabx). His occupation is stated in Genesis 10:9: "He was a mighty hunter." Nimrod is the son of Cush and founder of the Babylonian Empire, the empire that opposes God throughout the Scripture and is destroyed in the book of Revelation. In Micah 5:6, God's enemies are said to dwell in the land of Nimrod. Scholars such as Barnhouse, Pink, and Scofield regard Nimrod as a prototype of the anti-Christ.
The second hunter is Ishmael, Abraham's "son of the flesh" by handmaid, Hagar. Genesis 21:20 says "he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer." He is portrayed negatively by Paul in Galatians 4:30: "Cast out the bondwoman and...

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 12:47PM
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[img] flag.jpg[/img]

I am trying to post a picture. it does not seem to work in the preview. this is a 4th of july picture of a flag. I am only using it for learning.

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 1:05PM
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Let us please not post personal messages to another person in public on this thread.

please let us drop any and all discussion of religion.

Let us try to agree to allow each person to decide for himself any belief or ideas on religion.

This thread is about catching groundhogs. It is also not about what to do with them after catching them. although a little fun and jokes are encouraged and welcome as long as they are not personal about any person.

This thread is also not about what is legal and illegal. The laws are different in different states. This is not a legal discussion. It is a practical discussion and we can have fun like posting Bill Murry in Caddy Shack pictures chasing a groundhog. We can laugh about electrocuting them. This is all meant to be fun guys. So please laugh and be friends.

I will offer a public apology for KK from NJ on his final statements in the above posting oon flatulence and substance. We do not want those kind of statements.

I will offer a public apology for Kubota from NH. he did not want to offend anyone. He promises to drop the topic and not bring up religion in this thread any more.

OK guys remember this.


The first step in ending a war is to come to realize that THE OTHER PERSON DID NOT DO WHAT IT IS I THINK HE DID. This first step then becomes a prelude to love. This first step is also the definition of Forgiveness, a prelude to being open and able to love each other. The simple statement that he did it but I will forgive him is not true forgiveness and does little good.

The only thing acceptable on this thread is love between all of us posting here.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 1:28PM
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DonÂt assume to apologize for me, Korey. I appreciate your attempts to reconcile. If attacked I WILL DEFEND. The best defense is a robust OFFENSE. I was simply offering my groundhog catching experience to you and anybody else that cared. What did I get? I was accused of breaking the law on a public forum. If attacked I WILL DEFEND to the end. I dropped it till Kub attempted to teach me Religion 101 this morning. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If he wishes to play, Batter UP. If attacked I WILL DEFEND to the end. The only difference is I donÂt make things up.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 1:43PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

My comments were a joke between me and ole_dawg and nobody else. I am not here to be insulted by any other Gardenweb member. I am not here to bicker with anyone and I am not interested in personal squabbling either. There have been personal insults directed at several Gardenweb members by a certain person in this thread. This needs to stop, and it will stop.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 3:49PM
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> * Posted by kubotabx2200 Zone 5b NH (My Page) on
> Sun, Jun 24, 07 at 18:46

>kkfromnj it's against the law to relocate wildlife in New >Jersey, so if you release the woodchuck off your own property >you are breaking the law.

This is your complete post, show me where its directed to anybody but me.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 4:14PM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

I was referring to the biblical quotes, and I have nothing further to say to you on this, or any other topic.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 4:21PM
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Hello koreyk,

I am an Electrical Engineer who has been recently plagued by these pesky varmints. I am sitting at my computer thinking of an Electrocutioner for these pest while I type.
I will post my progress and test results in the near future.

BTW, I will design it to only zap critters coming out of the hole and it will require the GH to struggle before zapping. I would not like to see a wayward bunny or pooch get zapped.

The Rodentator is cool, it would not work near homes or buildings though.

Beware the vengeful Engineers ;-)
Bill Murry rules !

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 4:34PM
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Next time, before you accuse somebody of breaking the law on a public forum, search able by law enforcement, prospective employers, ex-wifes, girlfriends or just somebody looking to make trouble know what you're talking about.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 4:40PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

It would appear that you won't have to worry about anyone else causing you trouble. You seem quite able of doing a really super job yourself.
I also have nothing futher to say to you other than I suggest that when you get stressed why don't you try going out into your garden and work awhile. It always makes me feel better.

I await with baitted (SP) breath your first report. It is truely wonderful to see a great twisted mind at work. Remember that the Idea was first presented here by myself.

THE BIG ONE IS BACK. Some much for my head shot. I took a nap and awoke about 6:10pm and went to the little boys room and as per my usual habit I glanced out the window at the overgrown tilled plot behind and lo and behold there he was, the BIG ONE just munching away. I went into the trans, my eyes glazed over, my nose twitched and the blood started to drip from between my quavering lips. I WAS IN SUPER HUNTER MODE. I went for the Pellet rifle and screwed down the retainer on a fresh CO2 cartridge and went back to the window just to check his position and saw him waddling off into the blackberry patch. As he departed I was able to note a large green bubble protruding from his anus which could have been none other a portion of watermelon flavored BOUBLIOUS GUM. It would have been a difficult stalk as the wind was blowing this way and that and he probably would have caught my odor before I got into position.
Sooo I am back amongst the would be killer of the dreaded Ground Hog from Hell
Ole_dawg and the little dawg

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 6:45PM
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I think I have the design, I am still working on a solution for the various sizes of these PITAs. I have babies the size of a Guinea Pig to huge waddling bahemuths the size of a partially flattened basketball, I almost got him/her with my tractor and field mower last month ( If I was only a little faster shifting gears ), it made it to the road and under the gaurd rail before I could reach it.

So far they have avoided my garden since there is enough clover around for them, I really wouldn't mind them if they stayed away from my house and buildings.

Once I get this working my winter project will be a little Robotic Woodchuck Chucker". Go after the little buggers where they live.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 7:37PM
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OhMiGawd we have an Electrical Engineer bent on Wood Chuck destruction at his home. We are saved the Messiah has arrived. :)

Someone told me how to post a picture. lets see if it works. she said to copy the 3rd down at Photobucket.

WOW that works on the preview. cool. haha. Good old Bill Murray knew how to attack those Wood Chucks.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 8:45PM
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The movie was made in 1980 and they did not have the graphics they have today for movies. That was an obvious hand puppet. Someone must have been just off the side of the movie in a big hole in the ground with his hand sticking up with a puppet on the hand. And everyone laughs. I still laugh today.

There is another picture on the internet where the puppet is much too high into the air and it looks too much like a puppet.

Now here is a budding Electrical Engineer chasing groundhogs across the South 40 acres bent on getting that bugger.

and Ole Dawg your big one blowing watermelon bubbles. You should try square watermelons. I hear square watermelons plug up the bubbler. haha.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 9:02PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Great Korey,
I love it when us ole guys decover something new on the net. I'll try now.

That is Dawg, the three legged cat. The surpreme hunter even without the leg. She would tackle the hog if she had the other leg. She still catches chipmunks and mice and brings them inside to play with.
GET 'UM Dawg

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 9:54PM
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What a pretty cat, Dawg. Shame about the leg. How did she lose it?

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 10:57PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

She is a torty and a very loving animal. I never was a cat person during my early life. Dogs were the thing for me. However some years ago during a cold rainy day I went out to get my newspaper and there was this cat, all wet, on the porch. When I came back I picked her up and took her in and dried her off, got a cardboard box and put a dry towel in it and put her back out on the porch with a bowl of milk which the only cat food I had in house. Later in the day when I opened the door in she came and remained. I had always allow her to come and go. I built a cat door in the window by the front door and she would jump up and go out. She disappeared on Sat. and did not return. I drove around and look, but no cat. One week later to the day I went out at dusk and she was on the porch. I could smell the leg from there. She allow me to pick her up and it was appearant that she had been snared and had finally pulled herself free. One trip to the emergency vet and $452.00 later she came out with three legs. If you want to hear more PM me.
ole_dawg and the little dawg

    Bookmark   July 4, 2007 at 11:30PM
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Now who would be setting a snare. sounds terrible.

What a good loving cat. She really loves you to go to so much trouble to return home. Glad to see you love her also and were willing to fix her up. Love always is the best choice in life.

I knew you were a good guy Old Dawg because I can feel the love flow through me when I read what you have to say. That is a good sign. It shows that you are on the right path in life.

I too am a dog person. Never really had a cat. I love each one of the dogs I have ever owned. They were each the best one.

My Roxie was a bit of a pain when young. too much energy. But now she is a sweetheart and so intelligent. She is all calmed down and a wonderful dog. I think raising puppies teaches us a lot about raising kids. Give them a lot of love and they grow up to be wonderful.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2007 at 1:42AM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Someone trying to catch ground hogs? LOL No ground hogs where this happened. I said snare, but I don't really know. It could have been a leg hold trap, but it didn't break the leg, just cut off the flow of blood and the foot died. She knows that I am not well and comes and sleeps on my leg to guard me. Always facing out to watch for the enemy. My last dog was a German Shepard and a super dog.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2007 at 8:06AM
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No action here on the ground hogs. I still have both holes plugged and nothing is happening. No one goes into the trap and no one trys to get around the bucket of water.

We had a little rain about 1/3 inch over night. the plants love it.

What about ferrets. They go down holes after things. will they take on a nasty groundhog. I kind of doubt it.

Thinking about it. a snare is designed to catch the body not the foot. I would think it much more likely it was a foot trap she stepped on. Maybe the person who set the trap saw the cat in the trap and set it free thinking it would be ok. we people are sometimes not too bright.

This is one big reason to use a live trap like havahart which does not injure the cat if caught. I can not remember seeing a cat around my place in many years. everyone up and down the street has dogs.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2007 at 1:06PM
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yardenman(z7 MD)

I've had good luck getting groundhogs in Have-A-Hart traps with apple slices, broken celery, and bruised lettuce. A "V" path of 2x12" boards herds them to the trap nicely.

I've driven miles to release some, but quite frankly a dip in the pond in the trap and it is all over in a minute.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2007 at 9:39PM
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It took me two summers to finally figure out what bait would work for my ground hogs. They demolished my garden last year. Well, let me correct that. They demolished my first planting of sweet corn. I put an electric fence around my second planting, and that at least gave me enough for fresh eating and the freezer. I should have made the fence higher and I might have kept the deer out too. I find that the dog learned pretty quick to stay away from the fence (she doesn't like clicking noises so she shied away from it. Your dog might not have such issues.)

Anyway, early this spring (before the garden went in) I put out the trap again. I figured my chances of catching the happy little family was better when food was more scarce. I put the trap near the entrance to their happy little home. I didn't set it at first. I just left it sitting there so they would get used to seeing it. The I put some bait out again. Nope didn't work. I thought I was of at least average IQ so I don't know why it took me so long to figure out that my frozen sweet corn in the freezer was the ticket. Yup! It was bam, bam, bam. The last one of the five was in the trap before I walked from one end of the house to the other. My dog polished off one of them too. Boy, was she proud of herself. That earned her a cookie to boot! Then she sat at the window and watched for them. I'd rent her out to some of you all, but boy I sure would miss her. Sweet corn works for me.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2007 at 11:48PM
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    Bookmark   July 6, 2007 at 6:39AM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

The last word in GroundHog removal

Yes that is a whole deer and that is a very large gator.
I believe that they are illegal in NJ

    Bookmark   July 6, 2007 at 7:02AM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

I am still having a bit of trouble locating the AR1000 Magnum air rifle in .22 cal. I had 2 dealers cancel orders on me recently because they are temporarily out of stock. I don't have a groundhog right now problem so this is not in a hurry but if anyone is looking for one there may be a bit of a wait.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2007 at 7:18AM
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I want to post this short news here because many times the newspaper article disappears after a few days.

Reward offered in groundhog hanging

Thursday, July 5, 2007

SPARTA -- The Humane Society is offering a $2,500 reward in the case of a groundhog who was found hanging from a tree.

Spokeswoman Samantha Mullen told the New Jersey Herald of Newton the killing appears to be part of "a hideous, malicious prank."

The animal's body was discovered last month by a homeowner who emerged to find it about 12 feet off the ground with a wire around its neck. The other end was attached to a wooden stake in a higher branch.

The society is offering an identical reward for a similar case involving a cat that was found hanging from a fence in Parsippany three days later.

In that instance, police found a cat hanging with a rope tied around its midsection. It was cut down and taken to an animal emergency shelter, where it later died.

If convicted of intentional animal cruelty, the culprits could be sentenced to 18 months in prison and fined up to $10,000.


Information from: The New Jersey Herald,

    Bookmark   July 6, 2007 at 12:25PM
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Ole Dawg has the answer. I ordered a pair of 10 foot long crocodiles for my yard. I am getting a kiddy pool for them to swim in. Watch out WoodChucks, I put down I wanted HUNGRY crocs on my order.

No more Mr Nice Guy to those Woody Chuckers.

I plan on getting to the bait shop. Oops I meant food store and get my woodchuck supplies for this weekend.

Square Watermelons might not find these
frozen corn off the cob
bacon and kosher salt
CD or VHS of Caddy Shack movie
Home Made Rodenator to include a tank of oxygen and a tank of propane and a very long match about 50 ft long.

Magnum of Champaign to celebrate.

My memory is going. My daughter says I do not have all zimers but that I have half zimers. She thinks she is so funny.

I am considering a motion detector to mount by the hole and an air raid siren to let me know he is there.

moth balls
kitty litter
sulfur flares used in automotive supplies

Electrucution equipment and a tractor to chase them all over the yard.

That should do it for today. The Crocodiles are on the way now. See you later alligator.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2007 at 12:42PM
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Ole Dawg

Here is a friendly little cat that should take care of any ground hog problems. just tie him to a leash by the groundhog hole and wait.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2007 at 5:45PM
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    Bookmark   July 6, 2007 at 7:59PM
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    Bookmark   July 7, 2007 at 7:37AM
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another take on trapping

Here is a link that might be useful: Trapping in NJ

    Bookmark   July 7, 2007 at 12:38PM
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Groundhogs are a large squirrel. Now here is a 1 minute movie that shows how these guys will get to your garden. Nothing stops them.

Here is a link that might be useful: movie

    Bookmark   July 7, 2007 at 4:45PM
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Well I have been trapping out a family of groundhogs that live behind my house in a den near a creek and the last biggest one was the hardest to get. The others went for apples but this one was trap savvy and would have no part of the apples. I place the trap right where the trail comes under my fence. So today when I was buying the nice sweet corn (grown in Jersey I was assured) too I bought an extra ear for my favorite groundhog and I just went out and found out it did indeed tempt him and he is now in the trap!!!! Hooray!!! I will release him/her at the nice creek where I released the rest of them which is far away and not near any civilization. I go through this every year and if I didn't get rid of these animals like this I would have no garden! I too live in the suburbs where shooting is forbidden and other means of killing is just too awful to contemplate so this is how I solved the problem.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2007 at 5:51PM
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Nice going Ghoghunter. I always thought that the racoons wanted the corn and not the groundhogs. But I now open to new ideas.

I just got back from the store. Bought some nice sweet peaches. tried on in the car on the way home. haha. tasted too good for the groundhog. Yep over the last 4 or 5 hours on this dumb computer I nibbled on all the peaches. Well back to the store.

I did get a lot of apples and I skipped on the bacon for now. I looked for the bubblegum and found only 2 kinds. not bubblelicious. I forget the names now. I looked at the ingredients and there was nothing in there but normal candy ingredients. so I skipped on them also. remember I had bad luck with regular gum before.

I also decided that the chipmunks must be taking my apples so I am going after the chipmunks first. I have an old havahart trap for squirrels and chipmunks. So I bought a big bag of sunflower seeds in the hulls. hope those work. we shall see.

After coming home from the store I set out some peanut butter on a small dish and some sunflower seeds. That should tempt them.

I really think I have a serious chipmunk problem. they are everywhere all day long. I see them all over the place every day all day long. here there and everywhere.

My friend in town with the groundhog problem has been catching chipmunks in the havahart. plenty of them. so it should work. Although my friends trap is new. mine is a little rusty and I might have to do a little work on it to make it more sensative. but for now I am just using it.

The big traps are still by the chuck holes and I have to move them away. no action on that deal.

I do not want to shoot them either.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2007 at 6:31PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

Come Korey, I thought you had gotten beyond that. You got to shoot 'um. It is the only real solution. Everything else is a stop gap. You were talking about drowning 'um. Now I think that is sick. Drowning is not nice, I drown when I was a kid and lost consinceness (SP), the whole route. Not good. My older sister saved me. The same older sister that shot me in the leg with an arrow the previous year. My parents believe in letting kids be kids. That is SOUTHER KIDS. I don't know how NORTHERN KIDS are allowed to grow up. I had access to my first rifle at age 8 with my grandfathers supervision. Is that allow in places like NY and NJ? I understand that PA is very understanding in matter like that.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2007 at 6:55PM
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    Bookmark   July 7, 2007 at 8:13PM
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This one was a little much for me. Do NOT watch this short movie unless you have a strong stomach. This Jack Russel dog tangles with a groundhog. Amazing. You have to watch the entire movie to get the full impact.

I do not want to hear any complaints. If you dont want to see this movie then do not watch it.;type=search&plindex=0

Here is a link that might be useful: dog battles a groundhog video

    Bookmark   July 7, 2007 at 11:43PM
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something went wrong and the wrong movie came up. I lost the movie. haha.

The name of the movie is

Jack and the Groundhog.

I think I have it now. Remember this is a Jack Russel dog tangling with a groundhog. dont watch if you dont want to see it. If it does not work then type in the name Jack and the groundhog and the movie should show up.

Here is a link that might be useful: Jack and the Groundhog

    Bookmark   July 7, 2007 at 11:48PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

You have too much free time on your hands. You should get a hobby. How about gardening? I hear that is very relaxing, unless of course you have groundhogs!
1eyedJack and the little Dawg

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 4:32AM
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I do have too much time on my hands and I get into trouble gardening on the internet.

Ole Dawg how is that greenhouse sunshade coming. I have to look at that thread. keeps you out of mischief.

I was shocked in the movie. I thought that dog would lose to the woodchuck. Only thing I can figure is that the dog was so fast and maybe he wore out the groundhog. I would not want my dog to tangle with a woodchuck. Some dogs lose those battles.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 8:03AM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

What a cute little dog.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 9:46AM
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CUTE ?????

I thought he was full of energy. At the end he sort of smiled and stuck his chest out he looked so proud of himself as if he knew exactly what he did. No way was that his first woodchuck. I bet he has many notches on his collar from his triumphs.

If that was happening to me I would be taking my dog inside the house afraid he might get hurt tangling with the chuck. But the owner seemed to know his dog would win. He just taped the fight and waited for the outcome. It seemed a bit dangerous for the dog to go in under that sort of pile of shelter whatever it can be called. Junk pile sounds right.

I have to find your greenhouse thread Ole Dawg. see you over there.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 10:22AM
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Regarding salt being lethal to the GHs. What if you just poured some salt into the hole?

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 11:10AM
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I think a lot of these are experimental ideas. You have to try it out. Personally I am not convinced that the salt does it. It could be the fat in the bacon grease. And it is more probable that he will not eat it anyway.

However, that being said, Animales do need salt. they do go to salt licks. not sure about groundhogs but they probably need salt.

Basically the Woodchucks are so difficult to catch and trap that it is hard to say much. However, I would go through and look at the successful people at traping and try to do the same.

Broccoli, apples, peaches, are probably as good as anything. to this we can try some corn if available etc.

It is probably just as important or more important that the floor of the trap be covered with dirt or soil. I like this idea.

Last thing is to keep the bait fresh. This is why I have been trying whole apples. they seem to last a while.

I also am of the opinion that if you use things like leaves or broccoli flowerettes then it might be good to stand them up in a little water to keep them fresh longer.

Some years ago I had some luck with trapping them. I warmed up some broccoli in the microwave and put it out frest by the hole a couple of times a day. it seemed to work around mid day for me.

I drove those guys over 10 miles and across a big river. no coming back for those guys.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2007 at 1:31PM
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I don't mind shooting them, but the one that is there now, I've only seen once. But his hole is fresh and my dog goes to it everytime I take him for a walk. If I could just shoot the rodent, it'd be over. I set traps and catch rabbits instead (not such a bad thing!). Maybe the trap needs to be bigger, but I have trapped some in other years.
Although most things need some salt, it is definitely something that if taken in quantity might make them very, very sick, so from the earlier post I was hoping they might have a real salt-tooth. But I guess no one has tried it before, or else they aren't posting. Maybe I'll have to try it myself. If so, and get any positive results, I'll report back.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 8:10AM
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trant(z6 NY)

I always considered myself real lucky that I never had to deal with these bastards in my garden. My uncle had a problem with them so he fortified his garden real good and now they really cannot get in anymore. It developed over time and was upgraded to counter new tactics by the groundhog to get in. First was the standard 4 foot chainlink fence. But the ground dug underneath it. so he buried 2-3 foot of fence underground. So then the GH was just climbing over the chain link fence. In response my uncle put an additional 2 foot of fence but this was a soft fence and it was only held upright by wire-thin posts. the GH would try to climb up, get to the soft part of the fence which would not support it's weight and he would fall backwards.

But I may have to deal with this problem myself soon. My brother spotted a GH in my yard the other day. The first time a GH has ever been seen in our yard. I live in a pretty tight suburban area so I really cannot make use of my firearms... my .22 hornet would be perfect. So instead I will have to try traps. I really hope this GH was just a lost one passing by... I am on GH watch now so far no damage to garden.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 9:11AM
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>>>My brother spotted a GH in my yard the other day

MY Condolences.....

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 10:30AM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

Best thing to do with a live-trapped woodchuck is a) shoot it, or b) sell it to a Chinese restaurant. Take your pick.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 6:07PM
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ole_dawg(7 UpCountry SC)

B. gets my vote. I don't eat Chinese food anymore. Let's see. GH fried rice. MuGu groundhog.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 7:08PM
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NO self respecting chinese would never sell a live wild animal or newly killed one. they prefer alive of course. they will eat it. they feed the junk food to americans. They laugh at what we eat. It is very rare for them to get the opportunity to eat a wild animal so that they would never pass up the opportunity.

They also love eggs with a good sized living embryo. I guess that gives them a tiny living healthy animal to eat. They might be able to find the eggs in some chinese stores. not sure on that one. They want them with exactly a certain number of days of incubation. no more and no less. well maybe a little more but not less. If I remember correctly they wanted 14 days on a chicken egg.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 8:01PM
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moosemac(Z5 NH / Z3-4 ME)

After many years fighting woodchuck, my solution is a 4 foot picket fence lined with 4 feet of rabbit fence with 3Â of rabbit fence buried in the ground ANDÂ a 4-10 shotgun. NO PROBLEM!

Yes I live in NH and my closest neighbor is 1500+ ft away. I am blessed!

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 8:11PM
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Yes you are blessed.

bye the way, what is rabbit fencing. what are the size of the holes. I know chicken wire is usually one inch holes. and rabbit hutches use like 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch wire mesh. but wire mesh is expensive for fencing.

I have to be honest I have not seen new evidence of the groundhog these past couple of days. But with holes in the yard they can not be far off. I did see at least 2 different ones in the garden previous. a big one and a little one. so they are around. just not chomping hard on the garden.

to annie on the salt. I would think it better to bind up the salt into a brick or solid. Now farm stores sell salt blocks. getting some bacon fat and adding salt would bind it into a fat blob and at least hold the salt together. or soaking into a sponge. Kosher salt would have a few big chunks and you might filter out a few big chunks. a tiny moisture might help them bind together. but I would not just pour small granule table salt down a hole. it seems to me it will disappate some. besides you really dont want to add salt to your soil. salt is not good for ground water. If you have a chunk of salt and it does not get eaten then you can remove the salt from your soil.

Some years ago I seem to remember reading that a woodchuck can have several dens and he will visit them in order as he goes around the territory. so maybe he is out on visit but will be back to check when the good stuff is ready in my garden.

Also next year I have to start trapping earlier when there is little food available.

Today I harvested some nice broccoli for me. nice tender side shoots. the head I took a week or so ago. I like this Thompson Broccoli from Fedco seeds. it is going to be one of my favorite veggies.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2007 at 12:28AM
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kubotabx2200(Zone 5b NH)

Here in New Hampshire you are free to shoot a shotgun pretty much anywhere except within the "compact part of a town or city", within 15 feet of a road, or within 300 feet from a permanently occupied dwelling (unless you have the owner's permission and then it becomes fair game).

Local town ordnances on firearms have no legal authority in the state of New Hampshire, all authority on firearms use is governed at the state level.

The only place you can't carry a gun in NH is in a courthouse or a courtroom.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2007 at 1:51AM
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wow that sounds very liberal.

Maine seems very liberal on guns also. Everyone seems to hunt in Maine.

New York and Massachusetts are the 2 worst states on guns. At least I seem to remember reading that.

I can imagine that a 410 pistol would be good for groundhogs. You could wear the pistol on your belt and have it ready in case one showed up. But of course there is no such thing as a 410 pistol. might break a wrist shooting it. who knows. might have too much recoil.

I can not see the garden from inside the house. the garage is in the way of the view. so I have to accidently spot one. that is a very rare siting for me. less than once a year. so a gun is really not practical for me anyway.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2007 at 8:10AM
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