How do you deal with neighbors' dogs?

cranberry15(Zone 5 WI)June 2, 2008

One of the neighbors' dogs killed my only 2 chickens Saturday morning. I don't know which one it was, so I'm talking to each neighbor and laying down the law - from now on, no roaming into our yard, etc. I called the county sherrif just to find out what the law is. There is a leash law here and they could be cited if I call in the future.

How have you handled this type of situation? I know it's a familiar old story for chicken owners, but these were my first girls and I'm very sad. I'd like to hear how others have dealt with this. Most of the property is fenced, but not all. I will be getting more chickens shortly (no WAY I'm buying grocery store eggs).

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johanna_h(Z5 SW MI)


So sorry for your loss. The safest thing you can do is provide your chickens with a well-fenced run. Ideally it should have some sort of top (chicken wire, netting, etc.) to keep hawks away, as well as being able to withstand a dog or raccoon's weight. The fence should have a direct access into their coop so they have somewhere to run if they feel threatened.

You can allow them to free-range when you're able to supervise, but if your neighbor's dogs are accustomed to running through your yard that might not even be safe. A dog can grab a hen very quickly. My own dog has gotten two, and now she is not allowed to run loose when the hens are out and vice versa.

I'm afraid that no matter how diplomatically you approach your neighbors, you will never be 100 percent certain that their dogs aren't on the way over to your yard. So you have to build your own fortress.



    Bookmark   June 2, 2008 at 4:42PM
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I dont screw around anymore. I got sick of being nice to fools who just dont care. I give the roaming cats and dogs a lead pill. There have not been too many problems since MOST people are responsible and others got the hint when their mutts(usually what they are) didnt come home. I will not stand for any more of my animals being sacrificed to bad neighbors and their animals.

    Bookmark   June 2, 2008 at 9:27PM
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I put up a hot wire and my neighbors dog hit it one time yelped like I never heard before and never went near the fence again. LOL
Problem Solved!

Here is a link that might be useful: ITS A FELONY!!!

    Bookmark   June 3, 2008 at 12:08AM
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allowing dogs and cats to roam is illegal, protecting ones property is a right. It is irresponsible to NOT take action to protect the lives of ones animals.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2008 at 10:08AM
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Spray them with a hose...thats is IF you can catch them on your mom always put out a piece of raw(or cooked) meat soaked in red dye...when the dog went home with red stain all over it's muzzle and paws it freaked them out and usually did't let them roam anymore! Give THAT a try! but leave the meat away from where you don't want them...put it at the end of your driveway.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2008 at 12:30PM
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presmudjo(z9 Osceola FL)

A story on local news from Orlando. A man, with permission from land owner and cattle owner, shot 2 dogs in a field where cattle were surrounding a calf against the dogs. He must not have had a large cal. gun because he shot many times. Not a good shot either I guess. Seems the dogs lived, one will lose an eye. Anyway, seems a bunch of people were outside the fence videotaping and it was their dogs in the field. Now they want this man hung out to dry and pay for his crime! The dogs would never harm a thing! Last I knew, this man had every right to shoot these dogs. It really p's me off that city folk move in next to farms and think they have rights above the land owner!

I like the red dye story. I may try that myself as a cat or raccoon has been getting into garbage on back porch. I think it is a cat, but maybe racoons are back. We don't usually leave trash out.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2008 at 1:44PM
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Yes, it makes me very angry when people move to the country so 'their dogs can run free'. We had neighbors like that and over a 3 month period, they lost all their dogs - either by farmers shooting them or being hit by cars on our dirt road.

They were in my goat pasture chasing goats one day and I shot at them. I marched over to tell the new neighbors and they told me that they would not fence in or tie their dogs up. They loved their dogs and that they had every right to be 'free'.

Well, they were free for sure... for a while... then they were dead.

It is not illegal to shoot dogs or cats that are chasing and killing your livestock. But its best to do it discretely and bury the body, as the neighbors will never understand why you killed their 'pet'.

But I loose money everytime they kill my chickens or get one or two of my goats. I can't afford that, especially now with the price of everything so high. And I do like my animals and hate it when a dog gets one of them.

My own dogs are kept in a fenced in backyard except when they are with me in the bardyard.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2008 at 5:14PM
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mrstor you hit the nail on the head!

If you have value on your animals you should not let them roam around FREE. Buck shot will take care of Free thing!

    Bookmark   June 3, 2008 at 10:32PM
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Well I was just letting you know the law. there is also animal protection rights for livestock. I was told the fine in NC is pretty heavy against pet owners who attack livestock. When I was in FL there was a lady who had about 40 cats in her house. I was walking my dog ON A LEASH and her cat hissed at my dog. Before I knew what was happening he broke loose and killed the cat. The lady reported me to animal control and they harrassed the heck out of me until they realized that one my dog was a leash, two the woman had all those cats in her house and would let them run free to eat other peoples garbage. I was so mad. I asked AC if they could do anything about the cats and they said no. I made the comment that maybe I will poison them and they told me about it being a felony to kill cats and dogs. I asked them to trap the cats and they would not do it either. That was in the city limits though so maybe it is different.

I would hate to loose a pet (goat or chicken) to a dog or cat but I wouldbe scared to kill it cause I am not going to jail. LOL

Also I heard of a dog that got in a goat pen and ate the face and ear off a goat. It was mauled so bad it had to be put down. the dog got put down too but did that make the goat owner feel better? NO!

Well I am not sure what you are going to do but whatever good luck. I know fences make for good neighbors.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2008 at 11:17PM
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Oh no... you can't just go over and kill your neighbors dogs or cats. If my neighbors dog barked all night long, I could not march over to their property and kill the dog.

If my neighbors dog stood in the road and barked all night, I can't shoot him.

But here in Missouri (I have checked, believe me) you have every right to eliminte a dog or cat that is harassing or killing your livestock. My neighbor to the south of me shot three dogs that were running his horses, running one through a fence and causing a major injury that will keep the horse out of the show ring and competition. His wife video taped the whole thing, even him shooting the dogs.

He shot the first one, and the others kept on with the chase until he finally shot all three.

Then he took the people who owned the dogs to court and won his case. They paid damages... to his fence and paying of all vet bills pertaining to the injured colt (over $1,000)

He could not sue for loss of income as that was speculation that the colt would have been good enough to win and demand a large stud fee or future sale price. He ended up gelding the colt and giving him away to be used as a backyard horse as he would be forever slightly lame on that hing leg due to the injury.

Now who knows, this colt could have gone on and won and he may have been sold for a lot of money. His full brother sold for $8,000 as a 3 year old as he was doing well in the show ring.

So no, you can't just shoot animals. They have to be on YOUR property and causing danger to you or your livestock.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2008 at 11:02AM
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In Pa, if a dog or cat is on your property, you can shoot it.

I don't do that, but you can. Our neighbors let their animals roam around but usually they stay off our property since we've been putting fences up.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2008 at 3:55PM
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people make me mad when they let their animals roam..I have a neighbor with a pug that they let go wherever the hell it wants..I've seen it almost get killed by a car twice so far in 1 year. They also let their potbelly pigs roam around like it's ok.Yes,we're in the country,and I adore all living things,,and enjoy seeing them,but it's up to the owner of the animal to provide it a safe and confined living area bottom line. noone wants their gardens half eaten by other peoples pets...these people say "if they get killed it's because it was meant to be"..can you believe the idiocy?

    Bookmark   June 4, 2008 at 3:59PM
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cranberry15(Zone 5 WI)

Thanks for the comments. The gun option was mentioned immediately, of course, but I'd rather not go down that road with my neighbors (at least not yet). There's really no recovering a relationship after that, is there?
Interesting comment about the city people moving to the country and thinking they can do whatever they want. That describes one of the families EXACTLY. They're morons. The other family is a grown child of a local farmer. Grew up in the area. He should know better. I spoke with both neighbors and told them basically what I stated in the original post. Both got real quiet when I mentioned calling the police. We'll see what happens. Another intersting note: I'm the wife, and both return calls came from the wives, not the husbands. My husband was PI$$ED when this happened. I just wonder how differently the conversations would have turned out if the men had been the ones doing the talking. HaHa.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2008 at 5:35PM
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presmudjo-"I like the red dye story. I may try that myself as a cat or raccoon has been getting into garbage on back porch. I think it is a cat, but maybe racoons are back. We don't usually leave trash out."

I read in another forum about a woman who was having problems with her neighbors cats going in her garden, etc. She didn't want to kill them so she got a live trap. When she found one in the trap, she could tell by the way the animal reacted if it was feral or a pet.

The feral cats were taken to the APL.

The pet cats got a thorough soaking with the hose before they were released. If they returned, they were taken to the APL as well. In another county.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2008 at 1:53PM
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One thing to remember that in the country "pets" are not what city folks see as pets. Most (not all) of the time a dog or cats running around the property are just that. They get thrown table scraps, run where they like, often mangey looking, and learn the hard way to get out of the way of the machinery. I think someone mentioned if they are harming livestock or even on the property they can be handled. Of course all of this is a state by state basis. I know many states will allow you to take care of the animal if it is chasing or harrassing wildlife as well. Some states I think let you go for it, while others, if no response from the owner will send out a conservation officer to do it as well. With anything use discretion, the sharp looking black lab with collars is probably lost, the mangey mutt with burs all over it might be another story. If you know who the owner is you can probably judge what needs to be done by the person that owns them, some people just dont care.... Sorry, I might have got a bit off topic....

    Bookmark   June 6, 2008 at 4:48AM
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One more thing, If you need proof to have the dogs taken away or whatever, those motion sensor cameras that hunters set out in the woods can do wonders. Some even take video. Might help narrow down which dog, or if it is a dog at all.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2008 at 4:52AM
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goodhors(z5 MI)

If you can get friendly with the dog, catch him up and call Animal Control for pickup of a stray. Remove the problem. This can work if you try. Then having to bail them out of "doggy jail" might help prevent wandering your way again.
Sometimes I can catch one, get rid of him that way.

Husband found a small Boston Terrier a couple weeks ago, wandering down the road. After watching it get ALMOST hit a couple times, he stopped and picked it up. Husband has a soft spot for small animals, baby animals. Dog sure knew nothing of roads!! Being a Friday night, AC was closed, so we put dog in barn stall. Sure was a howler, noisy dog. Gave him a bucket of water, some food, left word at local police and Vet offices. His owners called on Sat. morning and came to get him. Evidently he slipped thru a hole in fenced yard, didn't have his tags because his collar broke. Gone before they got the new one on him. Were very glad to have him back, we were glad to see him go! For a little dog he had traveled a long way, over 5 miles from home.

Our neighbor finally got rid of his wandering dog, said he wasn't paying again. The dog was a beagle cross, had a regular daily visiting route of several miles, so one of his other "friends" bailed him out and kept him. They evidently had a fenced yard, since he never came by again! Too bad it didn't happen 6 years earlier. He was a garbage can, trash dog. Knocked them over, spread it around.

So catch the dog if possible, send him off with AC. Perhaps he won't be back. Even if he comes, you can snag him again, make owners pay for returns. File a damages report at the same time if he has hurt anything on the farm. Can't collect without a report.

Cameras sound like a good idea too. Visual evidence is very good proof.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2008 at 12:40PM
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Another thing I've read about is shooting them with a paintball gun. The pain will usually run them off, and there's a nice little 'reminder' to the owners that Poochie went somewhere he wasn't wanted. If I were losing livestock, I'd SSS- Shoot, Shovel, and Shut-up.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2008 at 4:35PM
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I was going to suggest using a pellet gun... won't kill them (well, highly unlikely, anyway) but should be enough of a "ding" to send them running.

It's my understanding that, if a dog is on your property harassing/endangering your livestock, you have every right to shoot/kill it, or at least here in PA that is the case.

I don't care where you live, suburbs or city or country-- you have an obligation to control your pets one way or another from roaming onto property you do not own. This goes for dogs, cats, livestock, whatever... it really infuriates me when people don't seem to think it's a problem that their animals go trespassing at leisure. It's like, would they think it's okay if THEY THEMSELVES wandered around their neighbors' backyards uninvited??? Probably not-- so then why is it OK for their pets to do so?!?!

    Bookmark   June 9, 2008 at 12:35PM
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I just got back to the forum. very interesting responses. Like I said my neighbors dog got stung by the hotwire and never came back but she was an old dog and probably not as persistant as a younger dog. I like the paintball ideas and the trap and send to another county ideas. LOL.
I would not shoot a dog because then what? I have to pick it up and bury it? ewwwwl!

    Bookmark   June 15, 2008 at 12:03PM
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I wouldnt suggest using a pellet gun. killing is one thing but only wounding is uncalled for. many pellet guns produce enough pressure to kill a small animal including dogs. One of mine has 1200fps. They should not be considered for a deterent weapon.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2008 at 8:24PM
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brendan_of_bonsai(4b AK)

At a low velocity you wont wound a dog, a bird yes but not a dog.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2008 at 8:38PM
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I was the proverbial city boy moving to the country and I found the worst people about controlling their pets were the long term country-livers. I understood the problem clearly the first time I came home to a masacre in the henhouse. The dogs owners acted like it was a normal occurance, something that just happens out in the country and there was nothing they could do about it.

I think a lot of rural living people get pets dumped on them without their blessing by city living relatives or friends. A "you live in the country, what's one more dog gonna do?" kind of situation. I also think that people with a dog problem look for back road neighborhoods to dump dogs onto - a city person is not going to drive much further than the city limits to dump a dog.

I think a lot of dogs are perfectly behaved at home, but once the owner goes to work all hell breaks loose. I've known dogs that wouldn't harm a chicken at home but routinely snuck down the street to someone else's flock to do damage.

I think people are funny about animals. I had a neighbor with some nice horses that he planned on breeding for money. Down the street another horse person discovered a group of large dogs attacking his horses. These two guys were at the scene at the same time, they got their rifles and started shooting. The dogs had killed a foal and were in the process of trying to bring down the mare!!! They killed all of them except one gorgeous full blood Rottwieler. This dog was 'rescued' by my neighbor who planned on taking it home to start a breeding program with. All I could think of of way, huh?? you already know it wants to kill horses, you plan on breeding horses,, and you want to keep it at the same place,, like I said, some people are stupid about animals. Now I believe you can catch a missbehaving dog and clean it up and work with it to keep it from being a problem animal but I wouldn't have wasted my time with this dog...

If chickens are a new thing for you, you must know that everything on this planet that eats meat wants to eat chicken. And everything that eats chicken has all the time in the world to find a way into your yard to eat. You have to build an absolute fortress and be willing to bash a predator in the head in order to defend your flock.

1 Like    Bookmark   June 16, 2008 at 1:46PM
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Happy2BeeME(4a NH)

out here in the country there is a leash law and a law that says it's ok to shoot dogs that are a threat to livestock/farm animals. Also it's ok to shoot dogs if you see them running deer....

Heck the police made the guys down the street stop shooting off fireworks because it was scaring the local cows, including my own horses and dog. I'm not the one who called but glad it happened.

Can you say buck shot!

I AM an animal lover but a bad dog is unforgiving and unchangable! Kill once they WILL kill again.


1 Like    Bookmark   June 16, 2008 at 3:46PM
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johanna_h(Z5 SW MI)

I thought I would post the positive of this story, just to add to the mix. People who farm big own the property across the street from me. No one lives in the house any more, but they keep equipment there, have storage silos, and cows.

During the past couple of months I've noticed a pair of dogs running loose more than once down the street. Then one morning, right after I let my chickens out for the day, I saw the dogs as I was driving out. I stopped and talked to them (the dogs), they were very friendly. But I was worried about my chickens.

So I went over to the farm. No one was there, but a number of pick-ups were there and I spotted the one that belongs to the patriarch. I put a very rational note on his car asking if those dogs were theirs, and were they "hen-broke" because my chickens are outside during the day and the fence wouldn't hold against a lab puppy.

When I got home there was a message on my machine from him saying yes, they are their dogs, and no, they won't be running free around here any more. No arguments, no hard feelings, just "thanks for bringing this to our attention."

I just wanted to add a positive story in here. I agree that it's the life-long country people who are more likely to have free-range dogs, but at least some of those people are responsive when there's a problem.


1 Like    Bookmark   June 16, 2008 at 7:56PM
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I am soooo glad I am not in this situation. well I have not let my chickens out yet and quite frankly scared to do so. My co-worker says soon as I put the chickens outside I will know everything on the property because like it was mentioned everything tries to kill chickens. I guess they are easy prey. I will be HOT if anything kills my chickens!! or my goats!!! or the wild rabbits running around. now the moles... that's another story!

    Bookmark   June 16, 2008 at 11:29PM
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We havd a chicken fortress, the goats have 3 strands of hot wire.
When I lived in the city some dogs killed my chickens and were chaseing one of our colts at night. Everyone I talked to said their dogs were asleep all night. I got a can of yellow spray paint and sprayed the dogs. I went around and asked the people with yellow dogs where their dogs had been.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2008 at 1:02PM
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The New Jersey statute illustrates a typical law.
. . . A person may humanely destroy a dog in self defense, or which is found chasing, worrying, wounding or destroying any sheep, lamb, poultry or domestic animal.
NJ 4:19-9.
In Wyoming, the ones for destruction is placed on the person or entity owning the dog.
Every person, firm, copartnership, corporation or company owning any dog, which to his knowledge has killed sheep or other livestock, shall exterminate and destroy the dog.
WY ST § 11-31-106.
The statute fails to explain the penalty for failure to comply with the statute.

Dogs injuring stock may be killed.
It shall be lawful for any person who shall see any dog or dogs chasing, biting, injuring or killing any sheep, swine or other domestic animal, including poultry, belonging to such person, on any real property owned or leased by, or under the control of, such person, or on any public highway, to kill such dog or dogs, and it shall be the duty of the owner or keeper of any dog or dogs so found chasing, biting or injuring any domestic animal, including poultry, upon being notified of that fact by the owner of such domestic animals or poultry, to thereafter keep such dog or dogs in leash or confined upon the premises of the owner or keeper thereof, and in case any such owner or keeper of a dog or dogs shall fail or neglect to comply with the provisions of this section, it shall be lawful for the owner of such domestic animals or poultry to kill such dog or dogs found running at large.

[1929 c 198 § 6; RRS § 3107. Prior: 1919 c 6 § 6; 1917 c 161 § 6; RCS § 3107.]

RCW 16.08.030
Marauding dog -- Duty of owner to kill.
It shall be the duty of any person owning or keeping any dog or dogs which shall be found killing any domestic animal to kill such dog or dogs within forty-eight hours after being notified of that fact, and any person failing or neglecting to comply with the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and it shall be the duty of the sheriff or any deputy sheriff to kill any dog found running at large (after the first day of August of any year and before the first day of March in the following year) without a metal identification tag.

[1929 c 198 § 7; RRS § 3108. Prior: 1919 c 6 § 7; 1917 c 161 § 7; RCS § 3108.]


767.02 Sheep-killing dogs not to roam about.
It is unlawful for any dog known to have killed sheep to roam about over the country unattended by a keeper. Any such dog found roaming over the country unattended shall be deemed a run-about dog, and it is lawful to kill such dog.

History.--s. 1, ch. 4185, 1893; GS 3143; RGS 4958; CGL 7045.

767.03 Good defense for killing dog.
In any action for damages or of a criminal prosecution against any person for killing or injuring a dog, satisfactory proof that said dog had been or was killing any animal included in the definitions of "domestic animal" and "livestock" as provided by s. 585.01 shall constitute a good defense to either of such actions.

A dog that chases, worries, injures, or kills a person, sheep, lamb, goat, kid, domestic fowl, or domestic animal except a cat or another dog can be killed at any time or place. If, in attempting to kill such dog running at large, a person wounds it, he is not liable to prosecution under the penal laws which punish cruelty to animals.
§ 955.28
If a dog chases a person, Oregon law permits an animal control officer to impound the dog, bring the dogÂs owner to court, or both. If the dog is impounded, the owner can redeem the dog by simply paying certain impound fees. Even if the dog has injured or killed a person, the dog need not be killed . . . In contrast, if a dog chases, injures or kills livestock, Oregon law requires that the dog be impounded and killed.

(1) In a county with a dog control program, upon finding a dog engaged in killing, wounding, injuring or chasing livestock or upon receipt from a complainant of evidence that a dog has been so engaged, the dog control officer or other law enforcement officer shall impound the dog.
§ 609.155
In Texas, offending dogs share the same status as coyotes that destroy livestock.
(a) A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:
(1) any person witnessing the attack; or
(2) the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.
(b) A person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog or coyote.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2008 at 9:47AM
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After having hens/chickens free range for over one year, have found one dead, piles of feathers and one missing. Went out to give evening treat and shut all in at 6 PM yesterday and noted a beagle-type dog near the one dead hen. Do not carry a gun when doing chores. In my state, I am allowed to kill anything threatening my animals.

Like the idea of the paint-ball gun-will check out its range. Also plan to get some red dye-and some ground beef to decorate. How will a meat ball with a tablespoon of cayenne pepper affect a dog?

Seems like more folks are dropping pets in the countryside-as owners can no longer afford their upkeep. We are not long time residents here, but plan to go down the road and ask who might own the dog I saw. We do not have a dog yet-but are thinking that might be a help. It would NOT be allowed to run free.

I have heard about barred rock taking down a fox? Your experiences?

    Bookmark   October 1, 2008 at 1:21PM
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My chickens are free range during the day along WITH my 2 dogs. When I first got my chickens, one dog (the female)ended up killing two over a period of weeks. Once when one of the chickens stuck their head through the chicken wire pen and my dog decided to see if she pulled hard enough on the chicken's head, whether the rest of the body would follow (NOT). Later on, the chickens got out and we actually caught her with one, not dead yet but on its way, and yelled at her and smacked her. Normally, I never hit my dogs so that made an impression on her and she has shown absolutely no interest in my 7 chicken flock since then. In fact, the chickens seem, at least to me, to be kind of aggressive towards the dogs. The dogs, however, did wander off our property until we put electric collars on them. We tried running a couple of hot wires around the property (cattle fencing type), but if any weeds grow up and touched the wire, it reduced the shock and, anyway, even when the wire was fully charged, the dogs would just take the shock to get out. Some dogs are stubborn that way. My neighbor complained, politely, to me about the dogs running with his cows, so we got the electric collars, which have worked well for the most part. The female, although smaller than the male, has the heavy duty collar since she is the worst at trying to get out. Many people in our area of central Texas don't fence their dogs, but many do. It depends on the dog and how well trained it is to stay on the homestead. Some dogs are born wanderers no matter what training they get. I do find that the worst offenses happen when dogs form a pack of two or more. In Texas, there is generally a shoot first ask questions later policy when it comes to dogs harassing livestock.

    Bookmark   October 2, 2008 at 2:45PM
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We have neighbors (2 neighbors actually)that let their dogs run free. The one time the dog was chasing my birds, and my husband ran out and kicked the dog in the butt! The damn mutt still tried to chase down the chicken, so when the chicken and dog ran past him again, he kicked him Really Hard and booted him down the hill. He didn't have a gun with him. That dog didn't come back, but he was still around our property. We have really irresponsible neighbors.

Also our irresponsible neighbors called the cops because another neighbor of ours got sick of their dogs coming on his property and shot at them (the dogs, not the neighbors..unfortunately he didn't shoot at the latter). So these dinks called the cops, and the neighbor tells the cops he knows his rights and he CAN shoot at the dogs if they're on his property. So nothing was done. Except I think they got cited for having their dogs run loose.

We kept giving our neighbors all these chances and didn't call the dog warden on them, but the next time we see their dogs trying to kill our birds, it'll be a different story. The dog warden will fine people for having their dogs run loose, even out here in the sticks. We have a dog that can't be trusted to be loose, and we have to keep him fenced in. He just does not listen.

As for cats, a bunch of neighbors have tons of feral cats running around, not fixed and reproducing like crazy. It's becoming an epidemic in our county...go drive around the roads at night, you will see as many cats run in front of you as raccoons. And they do NOT control the mice here, they go after birds.

If my dog got loose and killed someones chickens, I'd reimburse them for the loss. It is really rude of people to have their animals kill livestock and not offer to reimburse for the loss.

    Bookmark   October 2, 2008 at 9:07PM
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How can you reimburse someone for the lost pet that was like a child to them? How do you measure the loss of time and money when the killed animal was a key breeder in a breeding program that took many generation of line breeding to produce? Dogs just don't run the milk cows and goats-they stress them-causing lower production. I did some quick calculations on the cost of each seramas currently in our color breeding program that took 9 generations to produce-$857 each for feed/supplements(this doesn't include the costs of lab equipment or individual cages/equipment or costs of keeping breeding records or the labor to care for and maintain everything relating to this program). We currently have produced over 6600 birds to get our current 200 breeder pairs. To lose one breeder (that can not be duplicated because many past generations do not exist) would be a big setback. All in all-these loses are totally preventable. You don't have a dog (or what ever) you have a responsibility.

    Bookmark   October 2, 2008 at 10:46PM
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We have all of the above. Dogs, cats, and chickens. My dogs are house dogs and we are with them at all times when they are out. Our older dog doesn't go far even on our own property but we keep a strict eye on the younger one. My birds are fenced during the day in a large run and cooped at night. Even my older dog shows a keen interest in the birds, I guess by his very nature of being a lab.
I've had numerous difficulties with neighbor dogs prior to moving here. The neighborhood we lived in in KY became one where the owners took pride in having scary pitbulls. Not family-raised, well mannered dogs, but meant to be scary types. I did not tolerate one of these at large AT ALL. I would kill one in a heartbeat to protect my family or pets. That being said...
Here it hasn't been an issue. All neighbors have various types of dogs and on occasion one will come up on the property. The neighbors generally do things the way we do and are conscious for the most part of where their animals are. I wouldn't have a problem going to them if a dog became a nuisance here. I think you've handled it well by speaking to them and Johanna gives you excellent advice. I love the thought of totally free range chickens but you will suffer losses that way if not to dogs then to other critters that enjoy chicken dinners. I feel that my run is large enough to allow the chickens to do chicken things and forage, etc. I know I could still lose a bird because there isn't a top on the fence but for now that is what I have. Lori

    Bookmark   October 6, 2008 at 11:30PM
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I used to live in Texas about 30 minutes from Austin on 2.5 acres(God, I wish I was back there now), and our neighbor across the street had between 5-12K birds on his land, everything from peacocks to chickens to swans. He fenced his yard well, and still dogs got in.

When we first met him, he asked if we owned a black dog (we did) and if the dog running on his property was ours (it wasn't), he shot and killed the dog in our presence. We got the message loud and clear. He had too many birds to allow free roaming dogs to kill his livestock (and livelihood).

Every once in a while, we would hear a gunshot and knew what was happening. We fenced our dogs in for their safety. The neighbor was a nice gentleman, who got sick of stray/roaming dogs. He would shoot, and burn them in his compost fire hole. I understood. One dog got in and ate the bunnies feet that were sticking out below the cage, 30 bunnies died. He has come upon over 40 birds killed by a dog. His own dogs were in kennels during the day, and supervised (in home) at night, they also never left the property, or bugged the birds.

Our other neighbor, who was straight from Mexico, had a different outlook on keeping dogs, and I believe quite a few of their dogs ended in the compost hole. Different attitude from a different country.

I breed dogs, and they are rare breed. If I fence my dogs in, and use the best fencing, and your dog breeds my dog, how much loss am I going to have when I have a litter of mutts? That is the one thing that bugs me. You have to fence in your property to keep other people's pets (or wildlife) out.

That being said, if your dog is on my property and I find it in with my dog when she is in heat, I will take whomever to court for loss of a litter, and at $1,500 a piece, it will be expensive for you, because you "decided" to let your dog roam free.

While I believe in giving dogs a chance to roam on land, that land needs to be fenced in. Period.

    Bookmark   October 7, 2008 at 10:22AM
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We are outside of the city limits and there is no leash law here.

Sheriffs dept advised me to upgrade to a 12ga shotgun from a 22 rifle and call them after I kill one of our neighbors dogs that bark and growl at me on my own property.

It depends on the type dog to some extent as to whether or not I would kill it. These were large rottweiler and pit bull mix dogs that appear and disappear at various intervals. Got tired of shoes getting chewed up and left at the neighbors front door and them refusing to pay for it.

Did upgrade to 12 ga and now for an unknown reason the pit bulls are gone. Without firing a shot.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2008 at 9:32AM
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We had a problem neighbor that had rototillers that they let run loose. They terrorized the neighborhood. They would chase my wife and would not let her out of her car and sometimes would not let her out of the cat kennels out back. We called the animal control and they said they would give them a court summons and they would get a fine. They never went to court and nothing change.

After consulting an attorney we began videoing and take plenty of pictures and after the 16th incident file a multi-million $$$ law suite against them and the county. It turns out that the owners of the dogs worked for the county in some capacity and that is why nothing happened when we complained to the authorities. Well all said and done we settled for a healthy sum from the offenders and dropped our claim against the county. They also lost their jobs with the county and the dogs were taken from them. Their insurance refused to pay on their behalf because they were (in Michigan) keeping known dangerous breed of dog and thereby the Insurance Co. was exempted from any liability. We took their home-retirement funds-savings and insurance equity.

Sometimes you have to do nasty things to get DUMB peoples attention!

    Bookmark   November 25, 2008 at 11:26AM
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You know once I got the best advice here on this forum. So here it is... The three S'S of living in the country. Shoot, Shovel & Shut-up. Words to live by!!

    Bookmark   December 23, 2008 at 3:55PM
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brendan_of_bonsai(4b AK)

SERAMAS oh that story made my day! If I may I would like to copy it to other forums as a cautionary tale, I really hope that stories like yours get spread around and put fear and responsibility in to the folks who keep big dogs.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2008 at 6:18PM
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I have never had to shoot a neighbor's dog YET.
We did have a neighbor though with a semi feral cat that over two years put 25 or so feral cats into the neighborhood.
They were into everything.
Chained up neighborhood dogs were barking all night.
I shot 12 or 15 of them and a neighbor to my NE got the rest.
There is a good reason why I had put 50 rounds through my model 510 Remington 22 rifle during the Summer of 1977 while I was building this house.

I did come close to shooting a Doberman that came onto my property and attacked my chained up Collie/Irish setter halfbreed.
There was blood flying everywhere.
I stepped onto the porch with my 22 and I heard a gasp out by the road.
The owner was a neighbor teen and she was on her horse.
I still would have shot the dog but she had her sister's baby in front of her on the saddle.
A picture of a rearing horse and a trampled baby flashed in my head so I told her she better call her dog and get him off my property.
What was left of the dog was happy to leave.
That Doberman was all chewed up.
I think my dog ate one ear.
I didn't find it anywhere anyway.
I checked my dog who was normally a very sweet dog and all the blood on him was from the Doberman.
There wasn't a single mark or sore spot on him.

    Bookmark   December 25, 2008 at 11:43PM
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I think that if you are going to have animals on your property you will have to come up with a plan on how you will handle certain things that are all part of the picture. It doesn't matter if it is a wild animal, your neighbor's pet, a feral pet or your own pet doing something bad or dangerous. It doesn't do much good to think about what your limits are before you are faced with the problem - you just need to understand that mild-mannered gentle people can do some pretty brutal things when their property is threatened. A lot of people stand by in shock and do very little but a lot of the people that wish to live out in the country "doin their own thing" are often not that mild tempered. They can kill things when they need to. They can kill the neighbors pet and never admit it or they can even brag about it. If you want to live around other humans you need to understand that your neighbors may not see things the same way you see them.

At one point in my life I worked as a zookeeper, which is a job that many people have warm-fuzzy feelings about but there are many aspects of that job that are not appealing to most people. Somebody has to kill the bunny to feed the hawk. Zoos are overrun with feral and wild animals that sneak in at night to eat food scraps. Trapping and destroying wild animals or stray dogs and cats is a daily experience. Large zoos have specialists that handle the problem but smaller zoos leave that job to the line personnel (like me). I started that job all wide eyed and in love with every type of animal on the planet. 18 years later I knew that I had within myself the skills to solve a problem with brutal force if need be - that nature isn't always pretty.

Years later while living on the edge of the city I had a large collection of exotic animals. When neighbors met me or heard about me they would often come down for a tour (sometimes bringing their dogs with them!). While walking them around the cages they would sometimes notice the large powerful sticks that I had propped up against the gates or the large trash barrels I had filled with water at various points. They assumed the sticks were to move animals away from the gates and that the water was there to help me refill water bowls. Once I explained that I don't believe in guns and that the clubs are used to bash in the heads of any problem animals I could get close enough to hit (this could be stray animals, wild animals or even some of my unruly pets) they started to look at me differently. When I showed them that the water barrels were used to drown vermin I caught nightly in havahart traps (a painless death) they backed away and gathered up their puppy. Their dog was never allowed down to my end of the road.

I know it sound harsh and a bit psycho - but I was living out there alone on a dirt road that the sherrif nor an ambulance would travel down. If a problem was gonna get solved I was gonna have to solve it alone. Some of my animals had no problem hurting a person (I eventually gave up trying to 'reprogram' them). The last thing I needed was someone's dog hanging around causing problems or hurting something. In the twelve years I lived there I lost animals to bobcats, coyotes, snakes, opposums and raccoons but the number one predator was stray dogs.

    Bookmark   December 29, 2008 at 10:05AM
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brendan_of_bonsai(4b AK)

Drowning is humane, but its not painless, it hurts.

    Bookmark   December 29, 2008 at 4:15PM
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doggonegardener(Wyoming, Zone 4)

Legality is a matter that varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In our city you cannot shoot a dog or cat as it's cruelty to animals. In our county cats (by state statute) are considered predators and can be shot at will. Dogs can be shot by livestock owners, law enforcement and wildlife officials if they are menacing livestock or wildlife. They won't even hesitate.

Hot wires on fences also may or may not be legal depending on local ordinances or statutes.

Discharging a projectile (meaning a firearm or pellet gun) inside most municipal city limits is usually strictly forbidden. Counties are traditionally different. Check local ordinances and know your jurisdictional boundaries.

Drowning is MOST DEFINITELY inhumane as defined by most animal welfare agencies and associations (American Veterinary Medical Association, National Animal Control Association etc) and is likely illegal as a method of animal elimination in most jurisdictions. Acutally, the accepted methods for humane elimination of an animal continue to be evaluated and reevaluated regularly as methods evolve and society changes. Now there are very limited methods approved and defined as HUMANE in the eyes of knowledgeable experts, veterinarians and law enforcement.

I know all this because I am an Animal Control Officer... this is my area of expertise. Check your local laws and act accordingly to avoid prosecution and civil lawsuit. Be careful.

I know Wyoming is a "fence out" state. Meaning that if I want to keep others' animals off my property it is my responsibility to fence my property in such a way to keep them out. This probably varies from state to state as well. However, if my property is fenced and someone else's animal destroys a section of my fence to come in the animal owner is responsible, legally, for the damages.

Like most post, it's the responsibility of the fowl owner to properly secure their property. I know it's terrible that others are not responsible for their dogs but do be careful how you respond as it'd be awful to land yourself in jail on a felony animal cruelty charge.

Good luck with your poultry!

    Bookmark   January 24, 2009 at 12:00AM
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8 years ago I put (replaced all the fencing) around my property. One neighbor's pitbulls ate through my fence. Last summer I had a chain link put in front of my wood fence. It came down to protecting my family and my dog. The neighhor was apologetic about the dogs, but then were obviously not going to do anything about it. Told me they were paying for damages to some other person's pet and telegraphed they couldn't afford that.

The money for the fence is worth the peace of mind. I don't like the looks of it, I'm planting more shrubs to hide it. I'm not stressing about the dogs anymore.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2009 at 2:03PM
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donm(z6 South Ohio)


I have lived in six states, MI, NE, MN, IL, KY and OH and in all of those states it is legal to shoot a dog that is attacking your livestock. I am a fur trapper and it is not illegal to shoot or trap a ferrel animal in any of the those six states. Ferrel animals are not considered game animals. They are not endangered, threatend or protected species. They are ferrel and they don't belong in the wild. They kill many protected and endangered species. Ferrel animals are pests and it is legal and right kill them if necessary to protect both livestock on farms and indigenous wild species.

AC told you it was a felony to poison your nieghbors pets because it is a felony to set poison bait out for predators and raptors. But it is not ilegal to shoot or trap by legal means any ferrel species that is attacking your livestock. That is just the law despite whatever AC tells you. Check it out for yourself instead of just believing whatever someone in an office tells you.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2009 at 9:10PM
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I have 40 acres,leave my chickens free range 2 times a neighbors dog came in killed most of my chickens,the second time I followed them it was 2 dogs.I called police the state police came. Im in Pa.I toldthem 2 times now a third Ill killthem she said no not allowed so
I threatened.
i said watch me.It worked havent seen them in about 2 years now.killed about 12 chickens,didnt eat any just hunted down,chased,killed.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2009 at 10:55PM
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donm if you read all my responses I think you will see I also posted exerpts of laws which state it is legal to kill animals when they are threatening livestock. Read before you critisize

    Bookmark   February 28, 2009 at 12:38AM
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brendan_of_bonsai(4b AK)

Reading before criticizing is very important. I don't think donm was criticizing you but rather encouraging you to do more research, which you had obviously already done. By the time donm's post was up there was nothing about the laws in the states of the US that you would be inclined to disagree with to my knowledge.

I still fully sympathize with the anger generated by someone making a post about what you have written with out reading what it was.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2009 at 1:20AM
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cranberry15(Zone 5 WI)

Wow. I started this string back in June of 08 and it's amazing to see how many folks wanted to chime in. I haven't had any problems since the incident last May. I thought I saw some dog tracks in the snow this winter, but haven't seen any dogs in person so far. Just to reiterate, here in Racine County, WI, there is a leash law AND I am within my rights to shoot an animal that is threatening my livestock.
Thanks for all your great responses. Interesting reading! Maybe I'll print out 2 copies and post them on the neighbors's doors. HeeHee.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2009 at 5:00PM
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Thanks to my neighbors dogs ALL my chickens and Guineas were killed. They kept coming back till they got them all. Over time it equated to about 13 chickens and the smae amount of Guineas. I gave up

    Bookmark   June 12, 2011 at 12:42PM
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msjay2u: really sorry about your chickens and guineas. :(

i'm a city person and it REALLY bugs me when people allow their pet cats/dogs roam. cats are allowed to roam but dogs must be leashed here.

i can count on all my fingers how many times i've seen neighbors' dogs almost get hit by cars or almost cause accidents and had to lure a dog back to their house (with my own dog in toll). even got yelled at once because the driver thought it was my dog.

i'm not a big animal-lover but hate hearing (let alone seeing) them hurt. i was horrified to read that anyone would harm or try to kill one. but i also understand you do what you have to do to protect.

i never allow my dog to go outdoors without a leash. even in my own backyard i have to supervise her because the coyotes. they'd probably snatch her up in a heart-beat. i was thinking of getting a BB gun in case we ever do come across one but again, too scared to hurt it.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2011 at 4:27PM
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I gues nobody on this sight ever lost a dog. Nobody ever had a cat shot by a neigbor for just being a cat. When does it stop? I do not agree with the neibors dog being in the road all the time and its like the lotto sooner or latter some texting person will run him over. When I was a kid the our neibers great dane was shot by a bb gun while in his own yard. the dog later died because the bb went into the blood and lodged in the heart and killed him. Escalation of force everybody has a reason to be mad at the neibors be it dogs , music , late night workers pic one its one thing or another. Stop and become friends it does not hurt to know these people. Then the dog protects your chickens , your kids your way of life. Look back to history know if when it comes time you can say. Yes sir my neiber my friends would never do such a thing. Or say hell yes that bastards guilty and toss that key away. Nothing is cut and dry and when you go off just shooting somebody elses scared lost dog or pet. you sooner or later have somebody shoot your cows after a storm knocks down the fence and he gets out in their yard or your heard dogs get out and scar the niebers. Working with others is not hard. Team work starts with the team and the work is the easy part. These problems we are dealing with are simple problems but get through these and you can deal with the bigger ones. If these stop you then let bigger people handle those larger issues. Stick with poison pellets for a lost dog or looking kewl in court because you want your 20 bucks to replace the fence post damn that Neibor that cost you make him pay. Bigger things in life. My friends son whom had a tumor and needed the neibors to pray so he could make it through the operation. larger issues like the stranger in the neiborhood and knowing it because you know your Neibers.
Then again stay small , look to the simple things Like a bush you planted that one day your kids will not give a crap about when they toss you in the old folks home and chop it down and sell your house.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2012 at 2:49PM
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I gues the bottom line is nothing last forever. Your land , their land , land in general. all just a land you stay for a bit then sooner or later it goes back to the wild. What you do with it for the short time you spend on it defines who you are. Its just a place to rest your head at the end of the day of trying to make a difference in the world around you. Nothing more nothing less. The waiting room of your life.
I cannot get anybody to do anything that is outside the realm of whats possible for the mind they have. Problem solving may not be some peoples strong points. It however may be some peoples strong points. In the end the world is better or worse after you are gone. Lets hope for better.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2012 at 3:06PM
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What is wrong with American Dogs? I lived in central and south America for over 20 years in rural areas where everyone, including myself, had free roaming dogs and free range chickens. Most of the dogs were scrawny mutts that look starved to death and yet I can't remember a single time in 20 years of having lost a single chicken to a neighbors dog. Of course all of those people in those countries understood the far greater importance of livestock that produced food, over dogs which are just pets for enjoyment. They would immediately kill their own dog if they saw it chase their chickens. That is just the Law of Country living.

But ever since I moved out to rural Texas and started raising free range chickens, I have noticed how American dogs have an almost uncontrollable desire to chase chickens. It is very confusing to me because, of the many dogs I owned in South America that ran free along side my huge flock of over 100 chickens, I never saw them ever show a desire to chase chickens, even though my dogs were hunting dogs. But every dog that I have owned in the US has chased my chickens and killed them forcing me to get rid of them. I just don't understand it. What is wrong with American dogs? Are they just dumber then the mutts in south america or something? My wife loves dogs and is always getting new ones, even though she knows that I have a rock solid law about dogs that kill chickens, and I am going to get rid of them if they do. So to save my marriage, I built a pen to keep the dogs in. Personally, I feel it is a form of abuse to sentence a dog to a life of confinement and would rather not have a dog at all if I have to keep it in prison all it's life. But my wife has to have her dogs, so what can I do? It's either keep them penned up or shoot them.

I am glad the laws here in Texas still protect farmers right to defend their livestock. What I don't understand is neighbors that get upset when you shoot their dog for running your livestock. I mean, you are doing them a favor. What if you did not shoot it and it killed a prize animal worth thousands of dollars and they had to pay for it, or injured a person and they got put in jail? I bet that they would have be very glad if you would have shot their dog to stop that from happening. Some American people's mentality confuses me more then stupid American dogs that won't stop chasing chickens.

Even in the Bible the law was that if your animal caused damage to someone else property or live stock, you had compensate the owner. If you did not confine the animal and it did it again, the penalty was very high, even in some case the death penalty if the injury was to a human.

The bottom line is that owning animals, like dogs, that have the capacity to cause injury, damage or death, to other peoples property, livestock or life, is a HUGE responsibility and Americans need to be taught to value their neighbor's property, livestock and life over their pets.

Here is a good example of how a good neighbor should react when their pet kills their neighbors animals. A few years ago, my brother had a chocolate lab and a sharpie. One day when he opened the gate to his backyard they both rushed passed him, ran out and killed his neighbors cat right in front of her. My brother immediately put the dogs in the car,took them to pound and had them put down and took the death certificates and handed them to the neighbor within the hour. That is the right way to handle the situation when you value your relationship with your neighbor more then your stupid pets.

It's not about what you should do if your neighbors dogs kill your chickens; it's about what your neighbor should do.

    Bookmark   November 9, 2012 at 9:15AM
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I've had to deal with the neighbors dog for months now. Can't do anything about it. Mine are confined in a kennel when going potty, her dog comes over here. Being a rural area nothing can be done by county, lawyers...and she knows it. The dog is NOT attacking my livestock so far, but she shot at my dogs for getting lose one day and she doesn't even have livestock over there. She didn't hit any of the dogs, but she was in violation of the law, as they didn't cause a threat to human or livestock.
Some people just have no respect for others!

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 10:51AM
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I had to practice the 3 Ss a few months ago. And am thinking of doing it again. The first dog was attacking my dog which was on its chain on my property. Now, my neighbor has three cats and a dog that he allows to roam free to use my planted areas and lawn as a toilet, eat my dogs food, and tear up my trash.
For a person to exhibit that their pet's feelings are more important to them than the feelings and wellbeing of another human is a particular neurosis in this country. Its a pretty big insult. It's saying something like "You are worth walking in my pet's $h!t, having to pick up thier messes, and you should pay to feed my animal after it does all that."
I keep my dog confined to my land, and would be mortified if it caused inconvenience for anyone. I'd be there with a shovel in a heartbeat to pick up any mess it made, and would buy them a new bag of pet food if mine got into theirs. Some people don't have any concern for their fellow man, though. Their pet is more important to them than a person. But not important enough to keep it safe at home. That's crazy, and I'm not obligated to be an enabler to that kind of thinking.

    Bookmark   April 9, 2013 at 2:49PM
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if that dog threatens my chickens it is dead. I will kill that thing in a second. In Texas we are well within our rights to kill a dog threatening our livestock.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2013 at 11:52AM
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Some people have working animals. For instance, we have dogs that protect our livestock. There are cougar, bobcat, fox, coyote, raccoon as well as stray dogs. Our neighbor does not like our dogs able to be free to do their work. Yet the neighbor let's his animals run free. His boxer turned up pregnant, and had a litter, he is mad at us. The pups are black our dogs are white or light brown. His boxer is brown..( never seen black pups as a result of multi generation white or light brown.). He leaves his boxer ouside, some times free some times tied.
Just a word to the wise, if there is a dog in heat, a 6 ft fence will not stop a male dog..... They can smell a female for sometimes miles. Coyotes will also pickup on the scent, as well as fox. We do not have full blood wolf in the area but have heard there are some wolf / dogs...

What is hood for the goose it us also good for the gander.... We have working dogs, not pets... They have been known to run coyotes for over a mile away before breaking off, or catching the to them. They wait until the coyote are on the property. Even the neighbor benefits from them.

If a dog is a pest, or hazard to livestock, they need to take care of the situation ......then again, if you went mine contained, yours need to be Also

    Bookmark   April 23, 2014 at 3:09AM
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It costs thousands of dollars when dogs kill calves. Each dead calf costs over a thousand dollars. Their are repercussions other than just one young calf. The mother cow may become fatty uttered. The cow will give little or no milk. Wild cattle are dangerous to people. They can destroy facilities and fences. The cost of maintenance can be great for cattle running from dogs. Dogs owners want to be paid for their pets. But, they are not willing to pay for dead cattle and damages. It is expensive to deal with dogs. Kill them quickly and protect ones property.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2014 at 2:43PM
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I found this after getting really angry after reading some article about a man getting arrested for shooting his neighbors dogs that kept wandering onto his property. After reading miscellaneous ordinances for several hours, I can say with about 95% certainty that it is legal to use a live trap to catch the animal and take it to the pound pretty much anywhere. They then have to go pay a fine to bail it out. If they still won't contain the dog, bonus points for dropping the animal off at some facility 100 miles away where the owners will likely never find it and it will almost certainly be euthanized.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2015 at 1:58PM
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If you have the resources and time and land, you can get a llama. I have heard they are VERY protective of the property, I saw on TV when the bounty hunters went to catch their guy, it the junkyard had some guard llamas on them. I don't know what the llamas do to animals they feel a threat (stomp on them?) but it must work, some of them are pretty big!

One of our neighbors kept getting dogs (I swear) just to release them, the one was very vicious and kept staying with our other dog. We had to get rid of it without being bitten. If the dog bites you, then what? Or worse, if it attacks your kids or animals, then you have to try and get some sort of legal settlement, if you even can. They can always claim that it's 'not their dog'. And the way the law is where we are, the cops couldn't care less.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2015 at 11:42AM
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Here are my thoughts on the issue.

The question is not what you should do if your neighbor’s dog attacks your livestock (chickens). The real question is, what should your neighbor do?

This question of what should a person do if their animal damages another person's property or person is not a new question. It is an age old question that has existed since people started raising animals. For thousands of years people have raised animals in agrarian cultures and societies around the world. In the US, back when the US was mostly an agrarian culture, there were cultural rules that existed for dealing with these kinds of problems. These rules where founded and based upon the ancient Israeli constitution, back when the Nation of Israel was primarily an agrarian culture. I could quote all the laws from that constitution but it would make this post very long and boring. The basic idea of these laws, was that the owner of the offending animal bore the responsibility of taking action to make amends for their animal’s actions. It also stated that if an owner did not take appropriate measures to prevent their animal from causing destruction to another person’s property, the owner would face severe criminal and civil penalties that could be as sever as the death penalty if their animal killed another person. These laws placed all the burden of control and responsibility of an animal's actions on the owner.

In the US, back when we were an agrarian culture, everyone understood these laws and lived by them, even though they were not actually part of US laws. They simply followed them because they realized that they made perfect sense. Bottom line, they had respect for one another and realized that they were responsible for their animals actions. Unfortunately, the industrial culture that the US has become now is one in which people show no respect for their neighbor and have no understanding and respect for the value livestock. Many modern industrial American dog owners are conceded, prideful, self centered and selfish, with no regard for anyone else or their property. They have no idea of the natural agrarian laws (country law) that governed the US for 200 years. They consider themselves and their selfish desires to be the only thing of importance in the world. They also consider their pets (dogs) to have almost human qualities and view them more as children then they do an animal that they own for their entertainment and pleasure. This is why we have such problems when it comes to these situations where some modern industrial Americans pet kills an agrarian American's livestock. The agrarian American naturally expects the modern industrial American to live by the law of the country and show them proper respect by do the right thing and taking responsibility for their animals action. The modern industrial American on the other hand could careless about his neighbor or his property and only has respect for himself and his property.

So, how should a person handle a situation where their dog attacks someone else animals. Let me give you an example from personal experience about how to handle a situation where your dog causes problems with your neighbors. This is the proper way to handle respond to this situation.

I owned two hunting dogs, a Golden Retriever and an Irish Setter. My wife and children loved these dogs as pets. Next to my farm there is a stretch of pasture that cattle are put on to graze a couple times a year. I keep my dogs are penned, but my wife likes to let them out to run with her when she goes walking, even though I told here repeatedly not to let them out, for fear they might run the neighbors cows. One day she let them out not knowing they had put cows on the land next door and they took off after the cows. She came in all worried about what the owner of the cows would do if he saw them chasing the cows. My response was, “He will shoots them both dead and I will support him. And if I they killed one of his cows, I will shoot them myself and pay him for the cow”. My wife was like, “You are horrible!”. “No I am not, I responded. I told you not to let those hunting dogs out of their pen. But you keep doing it because you want to walk with them. If they die, it will be your fault. Do you remember when those neighbors dog (different neighbor) came on our land and killed 13 of our chickens and you were spitting mad and ordered me to tell the neighbor to keep their dogs penned or tied up or we would shoot them the next time we saw them our land, and our neighbors got all defensive and mad at us and refused to control their dogs because they “Did not like keeping their dogs tied up”. Now the table is reversed and you are acting the same way those neighbors acted when I went to talk to them. I am only treating our neighbor they way you wanted our other neighbors to treat us when their dogs attacked our livestock. You thought they were horrible for not taking responsibility for what their dogs did, and now you are not wanting to take responsibility for what our dogs are doing because you let them out of their pen.”

You see this whole thing is about following the golden rule of treating other people the way we would want to be treated. It is not always easy, but it is the right things to do. I wish to goodness that this modern industrial American society would gain some common sense and would follow the golden rule and respect their neighbor and their property more they love their stupid pets. Sadly, I doubt that will ever happen, and since most laws are made by these same people with warped values, I expect civil laws to become increasingly less favorable to agrarian culture. Unfortunately, we do not live in a culture that respects the Golden Rule anymore. And since the law has become so convoluted and disassociated with these basic and sensable rules of agrarian culture, now we have to resort to taking matters into our own hands.

That leaves us with the 3S rule to defend our livestock. As the founders so aptly put it, we are endowed with certain inalienable right. I believe defense of one's livestock is also an inalienable right against which no laws can justifiably be made. All agrarian cultures that have ever existed agree on this point. The 3S rule is the most effective. If you don’t know what the 3S rules is, I will spell it out for you. SHOOT, SHOVEL & SHUTUP. I am not saying that this a solution for every situation. But, if a dog attacks your chickens and it turns out that the dogs owner is one of these modern industrial Americans that are arrogant, disrespectful and self centered that refuses to follow the Golden Rule, you have no choice but to just shoot the dog quietly and dispose of it and never talk about it with anyone.

P.S. The Benjamin Marauder PCP Air Rifle in the 22 caliber will kill almost any dog and makes no more noise then a spit wad. You could shoot it outside all day with your neighbors in their back yard and they would never know it. Just saying.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2015 at 2:09PM
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I have had an issue similar to many others on this forum and here is my way of dealing with it. Our next door neighbors had a large black lab that was very friendly and never barked, but the owners just let the dog out 3-4 times a day and it just roamed the neighborhood. It had a routine going from one neighbors house to another to see if any left trash for it to shred all over the place. When I took my trash out to the road once a week, it would regularly get into it and shred it all over the place and on several occasions, nearly got hit by cars. I made the owners come over and clean it up late at night on two occasions. It also would come into our yard and pee all over my plants so my dog (who always went out on a leash) could smell it.

On one holiday, their older son was visiting and brought his dog with them for the week. Every time me or my family would go outside, the dog would come running at us and would act like he was going to attack us. I kept a golf club close by and swung at it a couple of times (with the owners watching) with no intent to hit it, just scare it off. After a week of this, the son went back to his home, but for some reason left the dog. I told the neighbor that I was getting tired of this, but they didn't seem to care. I called the animal control and after a couple of visits to the owner, they finally sent the dog back with the son.

But even then, the lab was still a problem getting into our trash. I finally came up with a solution. I had made some homemade barbecue one evening and had leftovers. I went to the grocery and got a block (24 doses) of chocolate Exlax. I shredded the whole block of Exlax on top of the barbecue and set it out back. A few hours later, the barbecue had disappeared. I didn't see the dog for nearly a month and I wondered whether I had overdosed the dog on Exlax. Two days after the dog ate the tainted barbecue, there was a carpet installation van sitting in my neighbors driveway! In conclusion, after a month, I did start seeing the dog around again, but didn't have near as many problems.

1 Like    Bookmark   last Thursday at 6:18AM
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Down the hill from me is a small old house trailer that a family of five lived in.

They had an untrained wild acting German Shepard. That dog was a threat to nobody unless it jumped on you and knocked you down. For one summer the kids kept letting it loose then it would play with them for a few minutes then head up here. I would chase it back down there but I got tired of doing that so that evening when I knew they all would be inside I called and talked to the dad. I told him I was tired of having that dog in my yard getting my dogs riled up and he had the nerve to lie to me. He said," Our dog is never loose. That is a different dog and we don't know where it lives." I said, " Oh, Thank you for telling me this. It must be a stray and the next time it shows up here I will just shoot it and bury it." I heard some kind of quick words from the family in the background and he couldn't get off the phone fast enough. 8>))

That next summer that same dog was in my yard dragging his chain and the phone rang. Of course it was them begging me to not shoot their dog. I already had the dog tied up to my jeep bumper on an old 1965 CJ-5 that even now I still have. I just told them to come get their dog this time.

I like that Exlax trick but I am sure now it would either be our own dog or one of our cats that got into it.

    Bookmark   last Thursday at 9:45AM
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Livestock Guardian Dogs, i.e. Great Pyranees, work well with fences to protect the livestock they live with. They will defend "their" flocks, herds, whatever and kill predators like dogs and coyotes, etc. I have read that donkeys and llamas do too.

    Bookmark   last Thursday at 5:15PM
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