Have you read the new 'Terms of Service'?

pennsylvania_pete(1)January 12, 2006

Whatever one posts on GW now belongs to them too. Sure, you can still use it, but if they want to sell your photos...You are basically handing over copyright to them. Just thought everybody ought to read the new terms of service. Personally, another reason to opt out of everything here.

This is what one paragraph says:

" By submitting content, which shall include your member name, to any "public area" of the GardenWeb Network, including, but not limited to, the forums and your personal website, exchange page and journal, you grant iVillage a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right (including any moral rights) and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, sublicense, assign, derive revenue or other remuneration from, communicate to the public, perform and display the content (in whole or in part) worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for the full term of any Rights that may exist in such content."

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pirate_girl(Zone7 NYC)

Well Pete,

Thx for posting this, I hadn't yet read the terms (hope to tomorrow, slow day at work).

Just when I'm abt to learn how to post pix too (& of my original quilts no less).

You are wonderful to post this just in time for me to protect my original works of art. You can be sure they won't be appearing here.

A MIGHTY thank you (w/ curtsey (sp?)) to you Sir!!! I owe ya.

Guessing they'll be lots less pix in the future, ;(PG) Karen

    Bookmark   January 12, 2006 at 10:11PM
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Mentha(9 CA)

Here is another gem:

iVillage reserves the right to terminate free access to the GardenWeb Network including any or all content, services, products, features or tools, with or without notice to you. iVillage reserves the right (at iVillage.s sole discretion) to provide you with notice of such change by prominently posting a notice on the GardenWeb Network and/or sending written notice to you at any e-mail and/or post office address you have provided to iVillage. Once free access is terminated iVillage may charge each visitor or member any applicable fee, surcharge and/or membership fee for access to the GardenWeb Network and/or any for-pay content, services, products, features or tools.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2006 at 10:52PM
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If I post any pictures in the future, it will be via a link, and not by loading them onto GW!
I started reading all the terms and conditions, and quit half-way through.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2006 at 11:18PM
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I have read all I care to. I have already removed the link to my album just incase the village decided to mess things up so we couldn't edit our member page later. They went to far in the questions they insist you answer in order to edit your page. Like hell I'm going to tell them my full name, full date of birth, gender, zip code etc... This stuff is none of their business. Next thing you know they will want my social security number! So let me introduce myself...my name is Idont Thinkso, my zipcode is 21111, I was born on Jan 1st 1903. If they want to terminate my free access to the GardenWeb then they will never hear from me again. There is a nice free site to talk about house plants on. I think I may go there.

BTW thanks Pete for the reminder.


    Bookmark   January 12, 2006 at 11:52PM
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fishies(Ottawa z4a or 5)

Foxy - I've been wanting to change my member page since this whole nut-fest started - not because I have valuable photos or anything on that page, but because I identify myself as a religious studies student. If iVillage starts selling personal info to their sponsors, as they claim they now have the right to, I *really* don't want my mailbox crammed with anything their sponsors might want to sell me about religion. The chances are slim that the sponsors or site admin would bother to research member pages for that type of info, but I would rather not take that chance. But there doesn't seem to be an "edit" link anymore... if you find one, let me know.


    Bookmark   January 13, 2006 at 12:29AM
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Mentha(9 CA)

What I don't understand is the the forums and your personal website part. Does that mean a personal website on GW or say a personal website you've linked to? What do they mean by personal website?

    Bookmark   January 13, 2006 at 12:30AM
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Shelly, to edit your member page you can go to the top of this screen and click on "your profile". They will have you go through the logging in process again. Then they will ask you all kinds of personal information. If you don't answer all of their questions they will not let you proceed. Once you have given them all the info they want (personaly I lied, lol) they will give you the page to edit your member page. Since I lied to them they now have the right to cancel my membership according to their terms of service. If you don't see me posting anymore you know big brother has caught me.lol

Mentha, I read somewhere in all their legaleeze that they have the right to anything personal you link to. I have never put the pictures I sell in my album, but I don't want them to have the right to even my crappy pictures. Good, bad or indifferent I took them so they are mine.


    Bookmark   January 13, 2006 at 12:43AM
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Cena(S CA 10A)


Pete, I'm so glad you got back in here. How long you gonna stay? Rhetorical question, really. But thanks anyway. Seems I didn't even get any fish.............

    Bookmark   January 13, 2006 at 5:32AM
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fishies(Ottawa z4a or 5)

Thanks for the tip, Foxy. There was no "profile" link at the top of the page, but I clicked on "members pages" down at the bottom of my personal member page, and everything flowed from there just as you said it would.

I now live in zip code 90210. Do you think Tori Spelling will be my friend?

Anyway, this statement was at the bottom of the personal info page:

"These fields set various preferences affecting GardenWeb features. None of this information, or any information you provide at this site, will be shared with third parties."

Sets my mind a bit at ease, since I don't have photos I'm worried about being stolen. I just don't want spam.


    Bookmark   January 13, 2006 at 10:03AM
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Mentha(9 CA)

Looks like everyone should open a new account wherever they store images, and use it for only posting here. Then when the post has dropped to the second page or so, delete the photo shown. That way when IV comes and takes a look they don't have anything to take. Make sure everything has a (C) on the photo also right where it can't easily be removed. You can do this in your paint program, you don't need anything fancy to do it.
From now on put your copyright on your photos!

    Bookmark   January 13, 2006 at 10:08AM
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They shouldn't be able to take over pictures to which you link, unless there's something that makes it obvious that you're the owner of the album where they're stored...like a link on your member page that says, "visit my album @..." (Mentha, it'd be my guess that's what they mean-- any personal website page you've linked from your member page and claimed as your own. ...just a guess.) I could link anyone's pictures, and that wouldn't give iVil. the right to use them as they pleased, so they'd have to know they were MINE, a GW users, before they grabbed them...theoretically, anyway.
Although it sounds sort of creepy that they can "modify" and "adapt" our contributions (if you "modify" what I say, don't attribute it to me!) I guess I'll take a wait and see attitude. I might go check out who's at the alternative hangouts. ...or maybe I'll just spend less time at the computer. Darn-- I really did like the format here...& the people are the greatest.

    Bookmark   January 13, 2006 at 11:11AM
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The way I look at it, anything anyone posts on the internet has the chance of people using it for their own purposes. I don't really understand technology that much, but I am sure my son could take almost any picture and pull it onto one of his pages and change it or do whatever he wants to it. This seems to be a very public place and anything you choose to share on it will become a public thing.

Those words on the terms of agreement seemed to wordy for me. I have not been able to get thru them so far. I really am not worried that iVillage police will come after me. I don't think I should worry that they will take something from me. Something might make my computer crash and that would make me very sad and angry and cause me not to come back. I would have alot more spare time if that happened and I think I would feel lonely.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2006 at 12:37AM
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Simply put if someone takes one of your photos (even ones stored on the net) and uses it to make money you can persue them legaly. The new users agreement takes away your right to persue "the Village" if they decide to use your photo in a magazine or other publication. Dispite what some people are saying this agreement IS different from the one we all have been use to and it IS different from other sites. I personaly don't want them helping themselves to my pictures without even asking. I don't want to stumble across a picture of one of my cats in an advertisement. I don't want to open up a quilting magazine and see one of my quilts pictured. This may not be likely to happen, but I'm going to do what I can to prevent it just the same.

I have a feeling, in the future, we will be seeing a lot of posts like this:
* Posted by: fran1523 (My Page) on Sat, Jan 14, 06 at 0:14

Ii have pictures of a single iRISH CHAIN AND a double Irish chain that I have made on photobucket. If you want to see them, send me an email and I'll send you the link.



    Bookmark   January 14, 2006 at 2:56AM
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That sounds like the best way to handle it...it's what I planned to do if I ever get pictures of the house into an album.

The photo rights issue was brought up on the C&S forum, and some people suggested that pictures loaded onto GW are too small to be useful. At "If our pictures are of no value to iV, why on earth would they make a point of claiming rights to use them at their discretion? Even if there's no plan to publish a book full of 61K shots, I'd guess our pictures have potential value somewhere, somehow, if only web advertising.
There's no point in getting paranoid, but there's no point in burying your head in the sand, either."

Just imagine if our shots were catalogued (as in Hortiplex) and leased to ebay sellers! They could charge a pretty low fee and still make a bundle, considering the variety and volume we're looking at! I'm sure there are many opportunities to turn a buck besides the obvious, "publish a book" application. (I can think of several. You don't suppose iVillage would hire me to exploit GW, do you? ...yes, I'm kidding.)

    Bookmark   January 14, 2006 at 11:35AM
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canttype(0b (Cold North))

I don't know about the rest of you.... .but this makes me glad that I didn't buy a GW membership! I thought of it to get rid of the floating ads. As it turns out, I got rid of those ads anyway:-)

Fire fox and their adblock extention is a wonderful thing.(You have to add adblock seperately)

There should be a way to personalize photo's by adding your name/handle or some mark to the bottom of the photo. Someone in the Comments form sugested a water marking for the whole shot but you can't see the photo. I know with my photo software that I can add the date but I'm unsure if I can add any text that I want..... I'll have to go check! Seems it would make photo's useless to anyone else?

Darn it! Just when I got my new digital camera!

    Bookmark   January 15, 2006 at 12:22PM
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You should really look at this discussion on Suggestions and Comments. I am saving this one for a bit, if it goes poof, which I doubt, email me for a copy.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2006 at 4:09PM
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kjtessanne(8 Bryan, TX)

I just noticed this at the bottom of the conversations page: Special Instructions for Off-Topic Conversations:

* This feature is experimental and we are currently trying to determine it's viability. Please read the instructions below carefully.

Has this always been there and I just didn't see it or not? I'd hate to see them get rid of a way to see how people are doing. Geeesh.


    Bookmark   January 16, 2006 at 7:45PM
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Kim, that has been there for at the very least a year and a half.


    Bookmark   January 16, 2006 at 8:14PM
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Hi all,

I posted this on the African violet forum today. I decided post it here too.

Because I have been hearing conflicting opinions of what iVillage claims to have proprietary rights over I decided to look over the document a little closer. I should have done this sooner before posting an opinion. I'm no lawyer, so don't consider my interpretation of the copyright statement to be the final word.

When looking at 7. Rights of Content paragraph 2, I also see no reference to iVillage laying claim to the link to any picture. And, that makes sense. If one posts a picture, it becomes a physical part of the forum. A link to it picture would not be a part of the forum and could be in some ways construed as a footnote or reference. It is sort of the same if I were to post a picture belonging to someone else, without their permission, I would be in violation of copyright laws. However, if I post a URL, where this picture resides, I have not violated copyright laws, because I have shown the owner of the picture.

Another concern that people have had, in this same paragraph, is of iVillage having proprietary rights of the content of one's personal web page. People are concerned that if one were to link to his or her web page or web site that iVillage would lay claim to that also. After looking at the wording it seems to me that one's personal web site is really our member page. I came to that conclusion because in the first line it does say, ' By submitting content, which shall include your member name, to any "public area" of the Garden Web network, including, but not limited to, the forums and your personal web site, exchange page or journal...'. The use of the term web site for our member page is very confusing. Nowhere else on Garden Web is our member page referred to as our web site.

I think it's OK for iVillage to have a legal document that spells things out in legalese. But I think that it would be a good idea if there was a place where this was spelled out in layman's terms.

I really don't understand why iVillage doesn't respond to some of the threads in the suggestions and comments forum. When these interpretations and rumors start it is best to address the problems immediately so that people don't get upset and spend considerable time dwelling on them. There are people who have decided to leave G. W. because of what may be false interpretations on their part. I don't know. I like Garden Web a lot. I think it's one of the best message boards out there and I want to continue to be a part of it.


    Bookmark   January 20, 2006 at 2:27AM
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This was also posted on the African violet forum. I thought some of you may be interested in seeing what feegle found out when talking to his friend.


Posted by: nac_mac_feegle Hamilton, On (My Page) on Thu, Jan 19, 06 at 17:40

I'm posting this on both threads on this subject.
I was pretty upset about the new policy, so I went on the Winter Sowing forum and asked Trudi, who owns the copyright to the Winter Sowing concept and who owns the Winter Sowing website, what she thought of this. These are excerpts from her response:


That is a standard disclaimer--Spike had one too. Every website does.

iVillage is an enormous global publishing conglomerate. They are extremely professional. They got to be so big because they do things correctly. Pirating is not their style.

My work is NOT at risk. I have my registered copyrights to ALL the FAQs I've done. Josh is completely aware of the importance of this forum and its posters. iVillage is not suicidal, and Josh is a very decent and bright man.

I get a lot... from the AgNIC Alliance, it's a caring and kind relationship--they REALLY do care about all of us and the good things we're doing.... AgNIC is very happy to be part of Winter Sowing and I am very happy to be part of AgNIC.

Thanks for caring, it means a lot to me.


Anyway, unless you plan to sell the photos you've posted, or publish the info you've posted, we probably don't have much to worry about...except, of course, that icky email address selling issue. If you do plan to sell your work, copyright it.

Let's hope they honour the 'opt out' option!!

~feeling much more relieved

    Bookmark   January 20, 2006 at 9:48AM
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