Follow up: Vines, mature vs juvenile transformations, epi. behavi

tropicbreezentApril 26, 2014

Follow up: Vines, mature vs juvenile transformations, epiphytic behaviour

The previous thread (which ran "over board" with posts) got onto the subject of variegation in Syngonium. I was going to write that it's not uncommon, but it's not consistent. What I've found is that it's not unsual in shorter plants, once they start climbing the leaves revert to all green. I guess though, that once a plant exhibits this tendency it just a matter of selective breeding to get permanent variegation. Haven't seen it though. Makes you wonder if those different Syngoniums that come up for sale will stay true as they grow older.

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asleep_in_the_garden

Good idea Tropic!

I especially wonder about the pink colored variety.

Anyway here's the link to the original thread...

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 6:01AM
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petrushka

from what i read so far - the variegation is lost on older leaves.
that's why i was so surprised for it reappear on my 'mature sprouted leaves' (see prior thread).
as it happens i was paying careful attention, so i have pics of mature vine without variegation and younger leaves at the bottom with pronounced variegation (but this is not mine).
so here's the mature plant (sorry about glare, you prolly can't make out variegation on lower left).

This post was edited by petrushka on Sat, Apr 26, 14 at 13:00

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 12:56PM
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petrushka

now the same plant - only close-up of the bottom.
most of the leaves on the ctr/left are variegated.
tropic,
you pics of variegated multi-lobed leaves are the best that i've seen. and i've been looking, believe me!

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 12:59PM
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petrushka

so my 'mature' syngonium cutting has poped-up another leaf. and i took a pic a day to show how they unfold.
and this is just a 5 lobed leaf. i wonder how the 9-lobed does it?

    Bookmark   May 10, 2014 at 1:28PM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

Hi
I grow both the pink and the white types . IME as soon as they develop the 3 lobed leaf the variagation is gone but
you can take a cutting fron the tip and new grow will revert
to a single spade shaped leaf with various shades of variagation and the process starts over.
I've tried to rid myself of these my cutting the main stem
They respond by turning epiphytic lol
Were they are growing up palms I've tried snipping the tips while they will revert to colored , short duration and doubles the growth directions lol They will happily strangle whatever they're growing on lol
When pruning I keep them in separate bags as the least bit will sprout again!! gary

    Bookmark   May 13, 2014 at 5:50AM
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petrushka

so an update on how my mature syngonium cutting behaving.
the first 3 new leaves retained mature form, then with each new leaf they started loosing 2 leaflets. the latest is just a tri-leaf.
on each node there are aerial roots that dry up in a few weeks if not attached to anything. so i finally attached each node to the stake wrapped in coir fiber - to see if roots will develop further and if this will make any difference to leaf development.
here's a latest pic.
overall the plant looks quite good. though there's still problem with unrolling and it got a bad case of greenhouse thrips...

    Bookmark   May 29, 2014 at 7:01PM
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petrushka

ok, it really liked a bit of coir wrapping - already a big root curled around the stake thru coir clenching tight...close to 1" in a week! i put it even closer to the window in more light.
hope that it will stop reducing the leaf-count!

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 4:26PM
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asleep_in_the_garden

Are you bagging this?

Interesting info on the aerial and the choir. Suspected it would happen but it's always nice to get confirmation. :)

    Bookmark   June 8, 2014 at 12:11AM
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petrushka

it was bagged while i was rooting it, but after it started growing the last few months i let it free :). it's about 70% -75% humidity right now. the good thing about coir matting is that you can wrap it easily and misting re-wets it very well and quickly. so for now i just mist a little ev few days or more - just to see how the aerial roots respond. it's a bummer that the number of leaflets is reducing. i will extend the stake higher and make sure each node has some roots developing. and then we'll see what's next.
i also want to try a spiral bend-wire stake instead of straight pole - it provides more length in less height.
once it grows a dozen leaves i'll chop it in half , reroot and see what it does to leaflet-count.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2014 at 11:27AM
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petrushka

has anybody noticed, exoticrainforest site does not load anymore... pity.
guess, they won't be keeping it up anymore?
considering there was so much good info there, it's a shame.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2014 at 10:18PM
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tropicbreezent

Steve used to run that on his own. But now he's gone guess no one wants to keep up payments for the URL and the server space. Pity IAS didn't take it over as their site leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to information/images of aroids.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2014 at 12:16AM
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petrushka

a follow up on my syngonium: the vine got so-o long and at each node where i wrapped some coir fiber around it - it produced good long aerial roots. so i took a large plastic tub, put moist long fiber sphag in it and curled the long vine covering aerial roots somewhat. then bagged the tub and tied the plastic bag around the main stem (still attached). in a month i had REALLY giant aerial roots going thru sphag. some were so long that i had to trim them :). so i then cut vine between nodes and planted 5-6 cutting together in 6" pot: came out to 2 pots. i bagged them again for a month. and here's what it looks like:
the pot with older nodes sprouted new leaves faster, it's now working on a 2nd set of leaves. all new leaves are very extended arrows, some almost triple, but not quite, and all have good variegation.
the only exception is the very tip cutting - it is green, just barely visible white line in the center and a real triple still. the same with a shoot that came out of older plant (the original vine) - green and a triple.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2014 at 6:01PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL(8B AL)

Very cool!!! TY for the update!

    Bookmark   September 15, 2014 at 8:58AM
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asleep_in_the_garden

Let me get this straight...the new growth is still showing the characteristics of mature leaf forms.

That IS interesting!

    Bookmark   September 15, 2014 at 2:00PM
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petrushka

sort of ... the lobes are declining steadily, but the decline of number of leaf-lobes is not immediate, but after a few leaves the next comes out a bit shrunk. so after 12? leaves instead of 5ers with ears i have joined triples with ears, and variegation became strong immediately on 1st leaves of 'new-cuts'.
the only exception is the very tip of the original vine that had 1 leaf and original growing tip that i did not cut - it still opened 2 triples with ears and plain green - so no change in form yet.
the original plant that had only 5ers on it - opened up 2 lobed + 1 webbed leaf, and then webbed tricorns but plain green.
so on the last pic you see cuttings of nodes with single leaf that all were triples with clear 3 petioles+ears, but all new sprouted leaves have sudden variegation and the webbing connecting 3 lobes, so they are like tricorns, not arrows. though all leaves have still 'little horns'.. sort of little ears that are mini-divisions. you prolly can't see them well. i need to take a closer pic.
here's what i am talking about:
this is an older triple leaf with ears, showing very faint variegation.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2014 at 4:29PM
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asleep_in_the_garden

Fascinating!

    Bookmark   September 15, 2014 at 6:22PM
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petrushka

tropic,
i came upon this aussi article about a diff variety of syngonium :
s. angustatum. which is quite hard to distinguish unless you have flowers to compare. but it seems to have narrower and smaller juvie leaves by comparison and it multi-lobes sooner.
could my 'weed' be a s.angustatum?
what do you think? some of my new growth is quite miniature: central longest lobe only 2-3" and IS rather narrow. but the pics that i saw when googling show extreemly narrow leaves.
i don't yet have 'a single leaf' per se - only 'connected tri-lobes'.
so perhaps in a couple of months they'll totally revert. and i'll know better.

Here is a link that might be useful: syngonium weeds in au

This post was edited by petrushka on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 13:22

    Bookmark   October 3, 2014 at 1:21PM
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tropicbreezent

There's so much variation in Syngonium podophyllum that it'd be difficult to tell. I checked and there are about 36 accepted species of Syngonium, 2 of them are angustatum and angustifolium. I know "angustifolium" means narrow leaf, but not sure what is narrow with angustatum. So maybe your answer will only come with time.

    Bookmark   October 3, 2014 at 10:59PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL(8B AL)

How are things going with folks' vines?

When my plants get back outside soon, I'll have some progress updates on some vines. Too hard to get pics while crammed inside.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2015 at 6:09AM
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tropicbreezent

When I had those tall trees cut out the tallest/longest Epipremnum aureums went along with them. But I put a lot of cutting up against other smaller trees. Same with Philidendron lacerum. Never planted any Syngoniums anywhere but they're rocketing along anyway. Just wish some of my other vining aroids would grow as fast.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2015 at 11:49PM
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