Philodendron: Bud or New Leaf?

birdsnbloomsJune 22, 2012

Howdy,

I purchased this 'unknown' Philo Nov 2011.

While spraying, I noticed, whatever it is, in the center.

Is it a a flower bud or new leaf?

In one way it looks like a bud, on the other hand, the brown, paper-like cover resembles a new leaf. Thanks, Toni

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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

That's a leaf sheath. It will begin to shrivel and dry up as the nee leaf grows.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 8:52AM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

If it's brown already, I wouldn't be able to resist the urge to pull it off and see what's under there.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 9:12AM
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birdsnblooms

Rhizo, boo hoo..thought it might be a bud..lol..

Purple, gotta be strong. no peeking. lol.

I was so happy finding what I thought to be a flower bud. Don't think I've ever had a Philo of this type, so didn't know what the UPO (unidentified plant object) happened to be.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 10:20AM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

I wouldn't consider it peeking, just maintaining the plant, letting light on the good part. But assuming it's also crispy. Maybe not?

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 10:50AM
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birdsnblooms

Oh Purple, shame, shame, shame on you...lol. j/k.

I knew a woman who, when rooting cuttings or sowing seeds, HAD to move soil to see if roots formed.

She and I traded, well, I sent her numerous cuttings, often from the same plants.
Two were Stromanthe and large-leaf, fuzzy Cissus.

I doubt the Cissus rooted by cuttings, 'type.'
As for the Stromanthe, I had to unpot plant, seperate roots to take divisions. Don't think Stromanthe can be rooted from stem cuttings, so dividing was the only option.

The thing is she'd root and pot cuttings but instead of waiting, she'd move soil to check for roots. Daily! In the meantime, by disturbing roots, her cuttings all died. She'd then ask for more.

My Cissus was purchased at Rentokil Tropical Plants, a store I worked, in 1994. It grew beautiful, symmetrical. The last cutting I sent her did my poor plant in..It's alive, but looks horrible.

The Stromanthe is history. I had it a little over 10-years. It was tall, 2' and full. Purple undersides and stripped silver and purple tops. Gone!

Can't tell you the number of times I pleaded w/her to let cuttings be. Why check? If they're going to survive, great, but please stop disturbing roots.
What really upset me is, after the cutting died, she'd ask for another. It got to the point I stopped talking to her.

Like sentence two states, 'I knew a woman.'
She was a nice person, and I have no problem sharing cuttings, but when ppl start taking advantage....

Anyway, when a cutting is rooting or seed germinating, it's best to let them be.

Like the Beatle's said, 'Let it Be.' :)

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 1:32PM
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tropicbreezent

Generally with Philos the flower doesn't form in the growing tip. They develop in the leaf axils lower down.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2012 at 12:42AM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

Oh Purple, shame, shame, shame on you...lol. j/k.

Ouch, this feels undeserved, even in jest.

I've not had one like that before, but assumed from Rhizo's comment it behaved similarly. I've always taken those leaf sheath things off my heart-leafs as soon as they will let go with a gentle tug, which is usually when it turns brown if I notice right away, when it's crispy for sure. I asked if it was crispy.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2012 at 9:46AM
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birdsnblooms

Tropic, I've never seen a Philo in bloom...so flowers form on the bottom of the plant?

Purple, I was KIDDING!!!
Please don't take my shame-shame seriously.
I apologize if you felt I was wrong, even in jest. Toni

    Bookmark   June 26, 2012 at 12:37PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

Ok, it just hit me the wrong way, gave me this mental picture of a finger wagging. :+)

So, what's it doing now?

    Bookmark   June 26, 2012 at 2:00PM
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tropicbreezent

Hopefulauthor, not so much the bottom of the plant as off the side of the stem rather than from the top. Can be near the top, but not the top itself. The flowers are nothing to look at, just typical aroids, and some of the least impressive ones at that.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2012 at 9:27PM
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birdsnblooms

Purple..It's not doing anything, boo hoo. lol.
Well, the leaf sheath fell off. Now it's just a ???
I was hoping ?? was a bloom..oh well, win some lose some. :)

Tropic. I see. I think I do..lol.
So, Philo flowers look similar to Spath/Peace Lily or Aglaonema/Chinese Evergreen?

It's funny. Many times I've heard and said, 'X' flower is insignificant, but when a least impressive flower shows up, I get excited..lol.
Yesterday, I noticed one of my Aglos had a flower..not much, a Spath-like bloom, but it'd made me smile. lol.

But, I know what you mean. They don't look like Roses or Orchids.

    Bookmark   June 27, 2012 at 12:40PM
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tropicbreezent

They don't even look as good as a lot of other aroids. But as a comparison, much the same as Aglaonemas. Some Spaths have very nice flowers. I've got one that starts off large white and then over 6 to 8 weeks turns green.

    Bookmark   June 27, 2012 at 8:59PM
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birdsnblooms

Tropic...I thought all Aroid flowers looked the same???

Speaking of Aglaonema flowers...the day before yesterday, lol, while working on plants I noticed one of my Aglaonemas blooming.

My old Spath blooms turn green, too. (green foliage.) I believe flowers turn green with older specimens.

This Spath is 3-yrs..when it blooms flowers remain white.

I know it needs a taller pot, but they're hard to come by.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2012 at 2:26AM
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tropicbreezent

In principle they're the same. They have the same basic structure. But there are a lot of variations in shape and colour. If you google Amorphophallus titanum images you'll see the biggest, and I mean BIG!

Spaths are bog plants, I've seen lots of them kept in shallow water, or in pots in water. But I think there's only one colour, that's white which can later turn to green. Your's look really nice. The variagated leaves look a bit like Dieffenbachia leaves.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2012 at 11:05PM
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birdsnblooms

Howdy Tropic.

I've seen Amorphophallus..They are gigantic..Wow..Wouldn't make a good house plant, and if in the garden would have to be dug in autumn..
Do you grow these monster plants?

For years, A allowed Spath soil to dry between waterings.
One green Spath that's watered whenever, was very dry.
It's in two pots..growing and no-drainage outer container. I filled pot w/water in outer pot 3/4th's full.

I couldn't believe the change. It grew so nice, and flowered to boot.

I like Spaths, but they're not my favorite in the plant world. Variegated is different. Attempted adding more varigated or colorful than green.

But, you're right..they do well as bog plants...

    Bookmark   June 29, 2012 at 3:39PM
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tropicbreezent

I've got 8 different Amorphophallus including titanum which are still a bit too small to flower. One thing with titanum is it grows through the full 12 months, so no digging in autumn. My largest emerges in spring and grows right through to spring again. But the smaller ones (2) went for 18 months before one went dormant and the other is still going strong. They're an equatorial plant so they don't see a winter/summer divide in the year.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2012 at 12:16AM
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birdsnblooms

Tropic, I've seen Amorphophallus before, but Googled titanum. OMG, it has the largest flower I'd ever seen, ever.
Did your At's ever get that big? What about foliage?

BTW, where are you located? You're probably in z8 or higher, so no need to dig in autumn. Here in IL, z5, an Amorphophallus would die when temps hit 32 and lower..single digits. Ex...3F. lol.

Your screen name pretty much details your location..Somewhere 'Tropical Breeze', lol.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2012 at 2:35PM
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tropicbreezent

"Did your At's ever get that big?"

LOL, I wish! No, my largest still needs a bit of growing, the 2 smaller are just 18 months old from seeds. They take about 7 years to flower, provided they get good treatment. My big one got broken by the wind last season. And, to add insult to injury, a branch fell on it later breaking off part of the leaf (the whole plant above ground is one leaf). It's spending its next growing season in a shade house - virtually no wind and no falling branches.

I am in the tropics so cold (relatively speaking) isn't an issue. But I read from others growing Amorphophallus in colder climates they cover them over with deep mulch to insulate from cold, or do the digging bit.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2012 at 2:56AM
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birdsnblooms

Tropic, what irony..will explain.

Growing Amorophs from seed. Sounds like it'd take many many years. A lifetime here..:)

Thought they grew from bulbs/corms? I really know nothing about these huge beautys.
Are Alocasias/Colocasias/ and the plant called Voodoo Bulb related?

I have a Alo/Colo in a pot. It's several years old. I was planning on planting in the ground this summer to see how large it'd get, but because of ant infestation, 'outside soil,' didn't.

Sorry your plant was hit by a branch..That's awful. After all the work you put into it. Did the branch kill or break your plant?

Yesterday, June 1, 2012, we had a very violent storm..The Storm of the Century.
Winds were super-strong. I took 3 vids, placed on Flickr, but the second vid was too long and didn't load.

Anyway, we keep windows opened, no a/c. While the winds blew, my palm tree fell on the Philodendron, knocking off, whatever that thing was..leaf or flower....
Not to mention the house was filled w/mud..Just repotted, soaked and fertilizerd plants..there's still more to pick up, but it's muddy.
Rain was so hard, it landed several feet from the windows..What a storm!

Growth on the Philo.

I feel like crying..when I first discovered it lying on the floor................. Toni

    Bookmark   July 2, 2012 at 11:39AM
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tropicbreezent

Sorry to hear about that storm. It's hard when you go backwards and have all that extra work to do just to get back to where you were.

All those are related, as Aroids. But they all have different growing conditions. I wouldn't worry about your Philo, it'll resprout. The tip that broke off will produce another plant. When the break has healed over a bit, put it in a plastic bag (ziplock bags are ideal) with a little water and place in a light warm place. It'll start to put out roots and then you can pot it up. They grow easily like that.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2012 at 9:34PM
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birdsnblooms

Hi Tropic,

Tropic, the Philo already has a new leaf unrolling, but it looks nothing like the piece that broke off.

I still have the broken piece in paper towel. It sheds red coloring. What is it???

Otherwise, the Philo is fine. Thanks, Toni

    Bookmark   July 4, 2012 at 11:53AM
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tropicbreezent

The new leaf was probably the next in line but slowed while the tip was still growing. With the tip gone the leaf has probably accelerated growth to help the plant recover.

Don't know what the red colouring would be, some sort of sap? Has the break healed over/formed dry scar tissue? If it has I wouldn't worry about the red colour, although it would be interesting to know exactly what it is.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2012 at 7:33PM
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birdsnblooms

Tropic..the paper towel has some red, 'looks like dye' holding the piece that broke..see pic..

Tropic, the area where the bud was growing left a lumpy tissue.
On the same stem, a new leaf, 'looks nothing like the bud that broke off,' is growing. I don't get it.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2012 at 1:14PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

Well this has made me curious and my plant is probably not exactly the same but I ripped off a leaf sheath to see if there was any "red juice" in it but it's just white with no sap at all really.

Before

After

Did you ever dissect the thing in the paper towel to see what it was? It sure is flower-shaped, as far as Aroids go.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2012 at 1:29PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

Oops, meant to say "obviously not exactly the same" not probably.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2012 at 1:31PM
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tropicbreezent

Hopefulauthor, you'll just have to give it more time. I don't recall having seen that sort of "dye" coming from any plants, but I've never really checked it.

The new leaf will look different to the growing tip, it would have already begun before the tip broke. but a new shoot should start on the original plant looking like the broken tip.

I wouldn't give up on the broken piece, kept warm and moist it should sprout roots. The "lumpy tissue" will just be scar tissue from when the plant healed the break to protect itself.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2012 at 8:39PM
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birdsnblooms

Purple. My eyes aren't what they used to be, lol, so it's hard to tell. Does it look like a pod? lol..Seriously.

No, didn't dissect. At first I considered doing so, but then Tropic mentioned placing in soil...so it's inside a terrarium..I still wonder if it was a flower bud..lol

Tropic. I'm calling the red goo 'dye' unofficially..lol. I don't know what it is.
The 'dye' really poured out; my hands were red after lifting the pod off the floor.

I took your advice by placing the pod in soil, in a warm, humid terrarium. Many cuttings and seeds were started in the terrarium, so it should be sufficient.

Did you originally say, if the pod is a leaf it will sprout? Or something other?

    Bookmark   July 7, 2012 at 11:32AM
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tropicbreezent

The "pod" looks like a growing tip rather than a flower. The growing tip is the 'master plan' for the future of the original plant. It should keep going with that plan, only it'll be a new plant. Pretty well all Philos will do that.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2012 at 12:30PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

I think this may explain the red "dye." I was checking to see if this leaf would come free of its' sheath yet, which it did. Then I started tearing away the sheath and it made my fingers red. The tip was full of red juice but lower, it was white and more dry inside.

Holding the removed sheath:

Excavating further:

New leaf is so pretty! It should finish unrolling soon.

My prior experience with Philos has been limited to heart-leaf so I've never watched the formation of a leaf this big until this plant, but it did have the same shape as your "pod" and that's definitely what it is, a beautiful new leaf. Is this the first time a new leaf has grown since you've had that plant?

This is the plant from "aroid I don't know" thread in case you don't recognize it.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2012 at 12:15PM
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birdsnblooms

THE Master Plan brings forth more plants, which is needed if our world is to exist.

Purple, well, guess that explains it.
BTW, I don't know if the sap is poisonous; please wash your hands thoroughly after handling. I might be paranoid, but it never hurts being cautious.

Philo has grown other leaves and more are coming, but none have that pod-like look.. :)

I have quite a few Philos, vines, uprights, yet non ever grew 'leaves' like the one on this particular Plant.

That's the reason I started this thread. I'd never seen anything like it before.

BTW, what type is your Philo?

    Bookmark   July 16, 2012 at 1:05PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

Philo has grown other leaves and more are coming, but none have that pod-like look. Curious and interesting!

Thanks for the caveat about washing hands, totally agree. I did, I'm not averse to getting dirt or stuff on my hands, but am kind of compulsive about washing anything off pretty darn quick.

The plant I just pictured is here. I don't think "we" decided exactly what it is yet, which is understandable considering the damage to the leaves at the time I got it. When the new leaf opens up, I'll add a new pic.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2012 at 2:38PM
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dellis326 (Danny)

You should probably leave the cataphylls on the plant until the leaves mature.

The red is probably Pelargonidin which is a pigment like chlorophyll only reddish.

Nice plant Toni, When you feel like taking cuttings I'll trade you something for one.

Danny

    Bookmark   July 17, 2012 at 10:17AM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL

Good point, Dellis. I'm not advocating sheath removal, just overcome with curiosity sometimes. Thanks for the cool word (cataphyll,) btw.

This has been a most interesting investigation! Thanks Toni!

Wiki: There are yet other classes of bud protection; large leaves of tropical plants without any dormant stage to speak of, such as Philodendrons, often develop within an unusually large protective cataphyll, possibly functioning largely as scaffolding for the growing leaf, or protection from wind during the period when their tissue is tender and their fibres are undeveloped. The protective cataphylls curl back and dry out as the leaf opens and matures, after which they often are shed.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2012 at 11:27AM
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birdsnblooms

Purple, there are a good number of plants that are poisonous, way more than I realized.
Because we have pets, (plus I don't want to eat/inhale/absorb via pores,) I researched toxic plants and plant parts. I was shocked learning most of my plants/plant parts/sap were toxic to humans and pets.

Purple, there are a plenty of Philos that resemble yours. Eventually, you/someone should come up with the correct type. Until, enjoy. It's very pretty. Love the red.

Hi Danny,

Where is a cutting, 'from my Philo,' taken? lol. A leaf stem wouldn' root. So far it's upright, 'no vine.' Will it eventually vine out?

    Bookmark   July 18, 2012 at 10:42AM
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dellis326 (Danny)

Hi Toni
this plant does not look, from these photos anyways, like a Meconostigma type philodendron so it should start to vine after a while. if it does turn out to one of the tree pholos it may pup and you can cut off the pup once it starts to grow roots of its own.

    Bookmark   July 18, 2012 at 9:27PM
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tropicbreezent

I don't think it's a Tree Philo either. Tree Philos usually can't be propagated by just taking a cutting off the top unless the top has a root system. Otherwise it just dies off. The bottom would produce pups, but the top would be lost.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2012 at 4:18AM
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