Yes it looks good. I kill them. I lost my favorite that I am looking to try again.
Double post deleted.
This post was edited by marquest on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 13:25
Juju....Very nice. Calathea makoyana is my favorite
It took years before finding makoyana and lancifolia.
Hi Marquest. Pretty Dottie. Don't know if it's me but I find Roseo-picta types more difficult than makos and lanci's.
>> Don't know if it's me but I find Roseo-picta types more difficult than makos and lanci's.
I have not grown lancofolias or makoyanas, but I killed my Roseopicta within weeks of getting it. Leaves just dried and shriveled up on me. So probably not just you.
I am growing "Tropical Satisfaction" now (pic), and it is doing OK, kind of just sitting there.
GreenToe...What a beauty!!!
Growing Calatheas takes patience. :)
They're not the fastest growers. For sure.
I agree Roseo Pictas are fussier than other Cals.
I know my limit..no more RP's, as beautiful as they are.
My roseo-picta was flowering and then became static. Over the past couple of weeks though, it's started putting out new leaves again. I think they operate a bit according to their own timetable.
>> I think they operate a bit according to their own timetable.
Yeah, no kidding. As I said above, mine was just sitting there for months without growing, actually with some leaves even drying out slowly. Then 9 days ago I got a fluorescent light fixture and my calathea spent some time (not even the whole 9 days) under it. Then yesterday I noticed a new shoot coming out from the ground! Doesn't it know it's after Labor Day! I guess the stronger light threw it off and into the growth spurt in such a short time.
So, now what? What do I need to do to keep it growing? Heating season here can mean pretty dry conditions. I do have a humidifier though. I try to use plastic bags on top of plants only when absolutely necessary - 'cause they are ugly and my purpose in growing house plants is, well, the opposite of ugly. I can bag it though once humidity drops if it's going to be very helpful for its growth over the winter.
greentoe, that's a nice plant! love it! how large is it?
i bag some plants for winter not just for humidity, but also to prevent sharp temp drops overnite. and also to protect from mites. given sufficient light they grow well without declining.
for me it's worth it. i just position bagged plants sort of out of sight, behind other plants/furniture or in the bedroom, where they are less visible. it made a huge difference.
i got a stromanthe trio-star to start (it's related to cals) - i am planning to keep it bagged thru the winter for best growth.
i've been reading that cals mostly look quite bad by spring with ratty leaves due to low humidity.
it's not pretty either way, but at least i'll get a head start for spring. i think it grows much faster then cals. if i can maintain it well, i'll consider getting cals.
so i went searching for your cal and i can't find any images of it! is it new? i only found 'exotic angel' ref - but without a pic. it resembles 'ornata' but with much more white. much prettier.
That's pretty, Juju. How long have you had it?
The others are awesome as well!
>> greentoe, that's a nice plant! love it! how large is it?
Thanks. It's a foot above ground, in a 6-inch pot. The biggest leaf is 6.5 x 2.5 excluding the petiole, although many leaves are much smaller.
I'll definitely strongly consider bagging it for the winter.
>> so i went searching for your cal and i can't find any images of it! is it new? i only found 'exotic angel' ref.
EA is really getting on my nerves lately - misidentifying plants, misspelling their names, cranking out hoyas that chronically do not survive repotting, and now just pulling a name completely out of their a$$es... I checked the label, and "Tropical Satisfaction" is what it says, but apparently there is no such thing. It looks most like a kind of C. ornata to me as well. The stripes are not white, they are a lighter shade of green (see the pic) - although that may be a function of my culture. I am not sure if it's a new cultivar - I bought it in May of this year.
next q: where did you get it? wonder who sells it and where might i be looking :)))...i think it's quite special!
does it say on the label who produced it?
The label is from Exotic Angel. In small print it also says "(c) 2006 Hermann Engelmann Greenhouses, Inc." and also "U.S. Patent No. D 454,162". 95% chance that I bought it at either Lowes in Brooklyn or a one of Home Depots in NYC..
i'll keep a lookout in spring, thanks!
i googled engelmann - he founded exotic angel, it started in NY, then NJ, then he went back to germany to run his family nurseries, then retired to apopka, fl and set-up one of the biggest greenhouses (9 locations now).
he died last year, his son runs the business. so, could it be they bred a new variety? there's an international tropical plant industry show in fLaud, fl in jan. i'll be in miami so i'll try to go - they show there. may be i'll get it then. planning to bring some broms home too ;).
Both of my Calatheas (roseopicta and orbifolia) get monthly two-three day trips to the bathroom. The humidity from my shower seems to keep them happy. I only had my roseopicta for four months and it bloomed for me, and except for a week or two after I repotted it (both times) it's been putting out new leaves at a steady pace. I find that hanging out while you take a few hot showers is a great alternative to buying a humidifier! Except for when they get giant... Gonna need one of those drip trays with casters on it...
A seller on Ebay, MDA, had Greentoe's Calathea for sale, but I don't know if it's still available.
Anyone who's interested can write him..he 'might' reply.
He has the prettiest, heallthiest, and rare plants, but his prices increased.
It's funny you guys mention Calatheas sending out new foliage. I noticed some of my Cals leaf growth recently started.
Our house is kept hot during summer..When temps decreased leaves popped out. So, I think Cals prefer cooler temps.
At the conservatory, Calatheas are kept in-ground soil, shade and very humid. They're fantastic looking.
Wish mine looked as good. :)
There are numerous varieties...problem is finding them. But, most important is proper care. Toni
Petrushka, I'd like to give you this calathea as a gift. I am early in my plant growing hobby, and you will derive much more pleasure out of a relatively rare plant than I do compared to more common plants.
I am on Coney Island - come over to visit (last beach day perhaps?) or I can easily meet you in the city somewhere. Hit me by email.
wow, very pretty strom! mine was also bushy like that, but I devided it in 3. the reason I got it and not other cals - its' smaller and also grows faster. so may be in a year mine will be back in good shape.
greentoe, thanks, you're very generous, but i'll feel guilty getting it away from you. it's doing quite well for you too. why, you're worried about winter? just bag it on a pebble tray and it'll be fine. it can stand low light. it should be ok.
I only have 1 heating pad (just reg drug store) - and already sev plants are competing for space. so I don't know yet how my baby stroms will make it past winter. plus i'll be away for quite some time in sunny fl - too risky to take on many new plants with special care.
that's why next I am angling for broms...
No need to feel guilty, really. This plant is just one among many to me, pretty but average, but it seems more to you. Economics 101 tells me to part with it to maximize the amount of happiness in this world. But more importantly, people in GW forums and you definitely among them have been very generous with information and help. This plant is a thank you for that. If you can't get over the guilt, then we can trade.
I am not too worried about winter. If it dies, it dies (see above how it's just average to me). I am more worried because that is a slow time for plants (WHAT AM I GOING TO DO, PETRUSHKA? WHAT. AM. I. GOING. TO DOOOOO?) - but that is a whoooole different topic. :-)
well, of course, tastes differ. but in my view it's prettier then sansi or philo or a whole number of plants. i think it's one of your prettiest. but it's your call! you got me there, i'd rather it did not DIE! as far as my help - i often take it as a distraction and relaxation - while in the middle of another exasperating repot! much easier to advice, you know:)!
honestly, i'm bursting to the limit, but i am tempted with an offer. i'll need to think and scheme on what to trade.
as far as what to do? - may be you need to move to tropics, where plants grow like weeds? ..well, florida will do in a pinch!
cals and stroms are grown as ground cover, believe it or not!
This post was edited by petrushka on Mon, Sep 9, 13 at 10:08
I am glad you are enjoying giving advice. I know how good that can feel.
Yeah, think what you want to part with (doubles or whatever) and give me several options, and I'll be glad to choose. I like variegation, dramatic shapes or colors, fast-growing plants, plants that communicate what they want (good learning opportunity) etc. And it does not have to be a trade - the gift offer stands if you do not want to part with anything.
Ahhh, living in the tropics. Perhaps in a few decades... Your link was... wow. Some people are just spoiled by their locations. :-)
Meanwhile, I bagged the Calathea and a few other plants under the lights.
In other news, I am experimenting using a drugstore heating pad (like for back pain) as a plant heating mat. What temperature should I shoot for? I set it to lowest setting, and it's holding the temp within a pretty narrow range. I put a blanket on top for heat isolation, and it's been holding 81-82 for many hours now.
i think low 80's for tropicals is heaven. but they will guzzle up water faster, so watch out. i keep my pad at medium. which gives me 80 in the middle of 6" pot (mine is very old, but is still holding up - it's been on since feb!). i checked temps under the pots(90s- which is OK for tropicals), and inside the middle of the pot with electronic probe thermometer. the bottom is always much hotter, but the soil/pot soaks the heat up a lot. and it's really the roots that you need to heat up + evaporation will increase the humidity.
the next step after drugstore heating pad is reptilian tank heating pad - that's the info i got from digging in the terrarium forum. it has good temp control and is still reasonably priced and available. it probably can take heavier pots too. i only use plastic ones on mine for now, with plastic saucers too.
i put my divided stroms on the heating pad kinda by association with alocasia practices, but i since read that that's what works after division to get fast root development and growth for stroms too. it's middle sep - i am running out of time so to speak, i need them to grow a bit before winter dolldrums. i have 4 new leaves unfurled already after 1 mo and 3 more shoots going to open up soon and one 'new node' putting on growth. i knocked off sev new growth nodes on the rhizome, while separating - otherwise there would be even more leaves going!
there's not much info available on propagation.
i'd think same would apply to marantha/calathea.
Petrushka, I just got this at 2nd Ave Lowe's in Brooklyn. 4-inch pot for $5. Not like mine but sort of close. Interested? They had another kind of Calathea as well.
Edit: the other Calathea is exactly like the original two pics in this thread. 6-in pot for $11.
This post was edited by greentoe357 on Fri, Sep 13, 13 at 0:02
1. Notice suspicious looking curling leaves.
2. Snap a photo to later ask GW people why.
3. Water this and other plants.
4. Go about own business for a few hours.
5. Recall the snapped pic.
6. Sit down to write the post.
7. Notice the leaves have flattened out after the drink.
8. Have an "aha!" moment.
9. Write a different post on GW instead.
LOL, that's great!
Greeentoe, Too Funny. ROFL.
your new ones are pretty too, but that first one i look at - it's just fabulous. i have not forgotten about it. it's just too problematic for me to trade or even to just meet to get it. winter's coming:0 ( ala 'the game of thrones') - am revving up in a frenzy of prep and dread....and considering what can or should be chucked?!...for lack of indoor space. trying times...
i do appreciate the thought, greenT, but am afraid you'll HAVE TO make it survive thru winter! now that you have sev more - you'll be taking good care of them , i am sure. the more the easier, honest ;).
my dumpy HD does not have anything of note. but i scored a nice neoregelia brom at the nursery...so that pretty much stretched me to the limit.
Glad you guys liked my little attempt at entertainment. :-)
But seriously, learning to interpret what the plants are telling me is a big part of why I personally like doing this.
>> afraid you'll HAVE TO make it survive thru winter!
so umm no pressure then, huh? I'll do my best, but just take it from me if you like it so much! Srsly! Live a little! I am fine with my others and will barely notice.
>> my dumpy HD does not have anything of note.
Which one? I frequent a HD on 23rd St in Manhattan and on Cropsey Ave in Brooklyn, and I have bought a bunch of plants there, but I find Lowes on 2nd Ave in Brooklyn waaaaay better than any of the HDs in the city. It is much more frequent that I find relatively cool stuff there.
>> i scored a nice neoregelia brom
I want to be like petrushka when I grow up! So when I saw this at Lowes today, I recognized the name from your post and HAD to get it. And it does not hurt that it looks great, too! My first brom.
I also got 11 (ELEVEN! Count them!) cacti & succulents at IKEA today, but that is a whole other story. Thinking how to organize two pot gardens out of those - or maybe keep some separate.
it's neo carolinae - just like mine :).
i got local hd in jersey city - next to holland tunnel within walking distance. but i do stop on occasion at 23st Hd too - that would be a good meet-up point. also check out flower district: 28st between 7and 6 ave. there's a nice cacti-succulent shop near 6th, south side.
to atone for hi-jack ... here's a cal beauty that is too large for me, but grows as ground cover in fl
there's another one that looks just like strom that i now HAVE!
could it be a stromanthe in reality?
Pet, I copied and pasted your link. It took me to Glasshouse Works.
Is GHW's the nursery you're referring to?
Which plant were you talking about? The link takes me to GHW's home page.
Green...Beautiful Bromiliad. So colorful.
It's too bad Ikea is so far from our house. We've been there twice..both times, I browsed their plants..
Plants were healthy, and I even found a couple rarities. Prices were very reasonable.
It's been 10-years since we've been there. Plants may not be cared for like they once were. IDK.
Wonder if Ikea has a plant website? lol. Toni
i verify all my links always to make sure they work. just scroll down to the image.
the first one takes you to the pic of calatea zebrina.
the 2nd goes to GHW - the image of cal jester is smack in the middle of the page, it's not a home page , just on top there's the usual heading, and on the bottom some floating ad. try it again.
i wasn't referring to any particular nursery, just posting links to pretty cals on whatever sites have them with good pics.
i am always looking for pretty pics. the above 2 sites just happen to have lots of them . and all one place - though GHW site is rather confusing to look at . very odd interface in my opinion.
i avoid ordering online - i like to buy my plants in person only.
my only reference to the nursery was this:
'but i scored a nice neoregelia brom at the nursery..'
- that nursery is walking distance from where i live, not online.
I copied and pasted then typed manually which took me to the same sites. The first nursery, 'it can't be named on GW' has a photo of a beautiful Calathea. Don't know its species name, but it has large, dark and light green leaves.
Second site took me to GHW's..I see the Calathea Jester you're talking about. It too is beautiful.
I haven't much choice if I want a rare plant. Here in IL, most plants are the same. Very few rarities.
HD sells Calatheas...mostly Roseo Pictas and an occassioal Stromanthe trio.
Maybe you didn't see I was addressing Greentoe about the Bromiliad/neoregelia. If you scroll up you'lll see I said Green. lol.
Sometimes computers are very confusing.
Pet, you're lucky there are stores near you that sell plants you like and want.
There's one nursery, 45-1-hour drive, we stop at once a year.
No nearby Lowes..in fact, the nearest Lowes is close to the nursery. Nursery name is Ted's.
There were green houses that been around 50-100-years, but they closed their doors a few years back.
The 101-yr-old, Bo, closed in the late 80's, early 90's.
Bo was the first green house I'd been to. It was huge..They even sold citrus, but I thought citrus could only be grown in green houses..
BTW, 4" pots were .75.
first is cal zebrina, like i already said. it's very popular and quite common in florida! and very easily identifiable too - unmistakable leaves.
hopeful, i am not confused at all.
Pet, I copied and pasted your link. It took me to Glasshouse Works.
Is GHW's the nursery you're referring to?
Which plant were you talking about? The link takes me to GHW's home page.
you were clearly asking ME about the nursery :). hence i explained. see, with all these 'unmentionable sites' i don't want you to think that i am pushing them - but i love the convenience of pics in discussions/identifying plants/etc.
when you use tinyURL - it's better to cut and then paste directly into the address bar - either in the same window or in the diff one. then there are no mistakes, no err msgs.
mouse to address bar - left mouse click to hi-lite, then ctl-v to paste.
Re IKEA: 4' cacti/succulents were $2.99 each. When I told that to a small flower store owner I know, she was amazed because she had just bought same size cacti wholesale elsewhere for $3.99 a pop. I showed her the Neoregelia Brom picture, and she wanted to know where I got that, too.
But IKEA here is really weird and unpredictable when it comes to plants. Once I came to check them out and it was just a disaster throughout the nursery department - random pots strewn about, many/most in really horrible state - obviously dropped several times, ripped all over, just garbage unfortunately. Nothing to see, really nothing.
Then when I came this time, they had a big pail of freshly-delivered plants (I think a "pail" is what it's called - a big no-walls many-shelves closet on wheels). All the plants were cacti and succulents and all in absolutely supreme shape. It was only later when I got home with the 11 C&S purchases that I noticed the tags on the plants had dates, and all the dates were from just two days prior. So, I guess you never know, With big box stores, you can also get really nice and rare plants for really cheap if they are fresh.
...Where were we? Calatheas! right...
Petrushka, great Calathea pictures! Nurseries must really be using some black magic to have plants that look this good.
Meanwhile, my 2 relatively newly purchased Cals are not doing really well (do not worry, the "Tropical Satisfaction" is fine - sending out another leaf, actually). The 2 others are getting edges of their lower smaller leaves yellow, then brown and desiccated, then it spreads and the whole leaf shrivels up and dies. I was not able to give them the best conditions while I kept them at distance with my existing plants for quarantine. Now I can group them to increase humidity and can give them warmer temps (65 to 90 is what I understand they like). Is that likely to cure the problem, you think?
I am not encouraging the repot by any means... but,
did you look at the roots?
for yellow leaves on moisture loving tropicals - all searches say it has to do with plant not being able to absorb enough moisture thru the roots.. and you know the usual spiel... too dry/too wet/bad soil.
is it in 6" pot or even less?
i'd say these are better off in shallow hanging basket type pot - where it's very narrow at the bottom and wide on top.
so the soil will dry up faster and rhizome has room to spread...but the soil stays moist enough long enough...
and I keep seeing posts that they do wonderfully in self-watering pots, by the way.
I know you like to bare-root and put ev. in 511 or gritty. and I really would not do it to cals. unless you want to water them obsessively, that is :).
you haven't repotted it yet, HAVE YOU?
> you haven't repotted it yet, HAVE YOU?
I repotted 3 weeks ago into 511 mix. There are some pics in of the roots this thread: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/houseplt/msg0913365816872.html.
> for yellow leaves on moisture loving tropicals - all searches say it has to do with plant not being able to absorb enough moisture thru the roots.
I bagged it originally to help it not lose moisture, but there was some leaf discoloration where they touched the plastic, so I took it back out. The smaller repotted calathea is in rubbermaid terrarium where its leaves are not touching anything, but this one is too big for that - only option is the dry-cleaners bag, and that will touch the leaves. Shall I do that?
> is it in 6" pot or even less?
This one is in 6", the other is in 4.5". The mix is made up of rather fine particles and does retain some water, which I did on purpose for these ones knowing they like moist mix.
i am not ready for makoyana myself yet, though i think i have better growing conditions for it, then greenToe ;).
this would be a very good moment for OP juju to chime in - since hers(?) is doing well - but.. i've noticed that even when asked about how she keeps her plants so well... she does not provide any detail ;(.
so... as i am very interested in these plants, i'll continue...
got this : pH 6.5, needs iron (do you have acidifier? or miracid?)- or else can develop chlorosis (yellow leaves!), hates fluorides in the water : no tap water?
needs 70% humidity to do well. lower then that might cause yellowing of the leaves - you need to measure.
many many articles state that it needs humus rich soil, does not do well in soiless media. african violet soil with peat most suitable for growth :).
i went to your thread and looked more at pics with roots. - they were happy and healthy....
read some more: cals like to be root-bound, though that might necessitate more freq. watering. one place just stated: deco life span: months to years...?! looks like a lot of people do just that - kill it in months ! it also stated that it might not recover after repot! for propagation - they say do not separate into single crowns - will be too weak , keep sev clusters together always with roots, else will die.
the most posts with pics of healthy cals on GW ... do state that they are growing them in MG, peat base soil. or black gold organic with humus.
so greenT - for 511 that you have you might need at least to feed it with fish emulsion. (if it's bagged it won't stink ;).
ferts notes: 15-15-15 at 1/4 tsp per qt. (i myself use only balanced ferts on plants that exhibit any pink/rose color; the easiest for me to get is AV 7-7-7 , which i just double up).
they are sensitive to salt build-up too. gritty/511 is usually liq-fed often - you might need to flush more often. especially if you're feeding with hi N (9-3-6).
and finally tenting:
yes, i would put it back in dry-cleaners - get a few long stakes to make sure the leaves do not touch the plastic. the bag is 2'x4'! it's a small plant, that should be enough? if not - rip one side and tent with 2 overlapping bags. avoid condensation.
p.s. the temps - IF you want them growing, you need 70Fair as min. and when dormant - 65F.
and they hate drafts/wind of any kind too.
wow! i don't see makoyanas in MY future any time soon ;).
This post was edited by petrushka on Sat, Oct 5, 13 at 20:04
Greentoe, Pet gave you excellent advice.
Regarding winter humidity.
Do you run a humidifer?
Second. Do you have a nearby Walmart? If so, check out their glass terrariums.
Don't know if they're meant for plants, but they're great.
Some have lids, others do not. Sizes differ.
Since your Cal is in a 6" pot, you'd need a larger size..
Good luck, Toni
> pH 6.5,
My water+fert solution is 5.3, although I doubt my little testing strips are accurate. NYC tap water is not as acidic as this, our muni gov't says.
> needs iron (do you have acidifier? or miracid?)- or else can develop chlorosis (yellow leaves!),
Foliage-Pro, which I use weakly with every watering has 0.1% "chelated iron".
> hates fluorides in the water : no tap water?
I do use tap water for all my plants. I let it off-gas for several days, although fluoride is one of the chemicals that does not disappear, I understand. I am not sure how much I want to complicate my watering routine. Buying bottled or distilled, preparing separate fertilizer solution... As bad as it sounds, I'd sooner let these Calatheas go, unless I'll get a critical mass of plants that need pure water. (the Neoregelia Bromeliad - they say that one also does not like tap; I'm watching it).
> needs 70% humidity to do well. lower then that might cause yellowing of the leaves - you need to measure.
Yeah, good luck with that in NYC in winter. I do have a humidifier, but that increases humidity 5-10% maybe. Bagging is the only thing that remains, I guess.
> many many articles state that it needs humus rich soil, does not do well in soiless media. african violet soil with peat most suitable for growth :).
I do keep the soil rather wet. Peat is 1/7th of the soil, but pine bark (5/7th) is very fine and so very water retentive too.
> read some more: cals like to be root-bound
But you know, they say that about many plants, assuming very peat-heavy soil will be used. The only way to let old soil like that drain in to have the plant root-bound, so that the water can trail down the roots, not through the soil.
> so greenT - for 511 that you have you might need at least to feed it with fish emulsion
I use Foliage-Pro 9-3-6. It has all the micro-nutrients, too.
> they are sensitive to salt build-up too. gritty/511 is usually liq-fed often - you might need to flush more often. especially if you're feeding with hi N (9-3-6).
I flush with every watering.
> and finally tenting: yes, i would put it back in dry-cleaners
> wow! i don't see makoyanas in MY future any time soon ;).
Thanks for the write-up above - feeling informed but overwhelmed. Calatheas are definitely spoiled little princesses.
> check out glass terrariums.
It'd have to be huge. This Cal is big, I wouldn't buy it just for one plant.
about foliage pro : it's too hi N !, some plants really don't like N, especially the 'colored' ones. although the bark will bind a lot of it , you might think... donnow. some variegated plants will green up too much with hi N and loose vivid pattern.
fish emultion is organic - foliage pro is not. many tropical floor plants (cals included) obtain their nutes from rain-soup: water runningdown the roots that has decomposed gunk in it.
you might try humus/compost tea too: like you steep some hummus in water and water with that. it does not stink like FE (think anchovies! or dried shrimp!)
anyways, looks like you're doing well AND you have other cals doing well too. i can't imagine that just this one variety has very diff cultural conditions.
they do start shedding leaves slowly in fall/winter - may be that's what it is.
> about foliage pro : it's too hi N !, some plants really don't like N, especially the 'colored' ones. although the bark will bind a lot of it , you might think... donnow.
Yeah, that's one reason. Another is apparently plants use N-P-K in 3-1-2 ratio. This comes from "container gardening" forum where everyone is going gaga over Foliage-Pro. They sound smart, quoting studies and stuff, so that's where I am at for now.
> anyways, looks like you're doing well AND you have other cals doing well too. i can't imagine that just this one variety has very diff cultural conditions.
My relationship status with Calatheas is, as Facebook people would call it, "complicated". I quickly killed a Roseopicta - this was way before I really started paying attention and while my plant mantra was "whatever doesn't kill them is making them stronger" - except sometimes it really just kills them, as I learned in that case. :-/
"Tropical Satisfaction" having grown ONE new leaf and shooting ONE more is hardly a smashing success. And then there are these 2 new ones - I will call them "Bubble Boys" because that is where they seem to like spending all their time, precious little things that they are. The smaller Calathea is doing better than the bigger one. Roseopicta was also relatively big, and TS relatively small. Is that a pattern - smaller Calatheas like indoor environments like mine much more than larger ones? Not enough of a statistical sample, I think - but has anyone heard of such thing in general?
I was eyeing yet another Calathea the other day, looking great and cost was fine, but then I thought it's just crazy to buy a fussy plant going into the winter when I can buy the same plant 6 months from now and have it more likely survive where I can enjoy it longer. I walked away - pretty proud of myself. :-)
Posted by greentoe357 7b NYC under lights (My Page) on Fri, Oct 11, 13 at 12:52
I heard that boy went into a mountain somewhere in the wild.