I stopped by the outdoor power equipment shop and saw an old Toro with a 2-cycle engine. I have heard these engines are outstanding. Anyone out there familiar with this model?
Depends which engine you're talking about.
The Tecumseh TVS840 is a pretty good engine, but not outstanding IMO. Rated 4hp or 4.5hp. I personally never had much success with the motor.
The Suzuki, which is used on the professional equipment is one of the best. Usually rated at 5.5hp. Smooth and powerful, with excellent mid-range torque.
No longer being used by Toro because the engine will not meet new emissions regulations. Parts are available, but somewhat expensive, like many of the premium Japanese engines.
I just picked up a Toro with the 2 cycle Suzuki engine. A lot lighter and easier to trim with than the old Honda HR21 self propelled I have been using. And besides, I just like 2 strokes.
Just have to wait for the grass to start growing so I can try it.
About a year ago I bought a brand new in the box Toro aluminum deck, Suzuki engine, BBC, self propelled mower from my uncle. He bought it thinking he needed it and never used it-1987 model.
I never even started it-I turned around and sold it myself but I heard it is a pretty nice mower.
Found a Toro aluminum deck 21" mulcher / rear bagger at a thrift store last winter. It's an '87 model with the Suzuki 2-cycle. There was no telling how long it'd been sitting, but my guess is at least a couple years based on the cobwebs under the deck. At least the previous owner had run the gas out of it. I'd heard very good things about the Suzuki engine and wanted to try it, so I took a gamble and bought the mower. I'd been dying to try it out all winter and finally got the chance earlier this month.
On a warm spring day I decarboned the exhaust port, put in a new spark plug and fuel filter, cleaned the air filter, poured in some fresh fuel and pulled the rope in eager anticipation. It started right up on the second pull and settled into that familiar 2-cycle putter. Now that I know it runs I'm in the process of cleaning it up and painting it. And just like Canguy, I'm waiting for the grass to grow so I can really try it out :-)
PS - the model # is 20581
Wonderful machines. The bagging option was pretty awkward, and it was pre-mulching, but if you just wanted a side-discharge mower that would run forever the 20581 was your huckleberry. Light, quiet, powerful and troublefree.
Could the Suzuki engine bolt up to a modern toro deck?
I got an 87 20684 Toro with the Suzuki 2 stroke from the dump last spring. All I had to do to get it running was to clean about a teaspoon of rust out of the fuel bowl. It has a plastic tank and an aluminum bowl, so the crud must have come from a steel gas can. I used it all summer as a trim mower. It runs great but is louder than the most recent dumpfind Toro, a 95 20441 with the Tecumseh 2 stroke. Last yr , I didnt have any idea about Toros, now I have 3 freebies. All 3 are better machines in their used condition than the Craftsman fwd eager 1s I bought new and struggled with a decade ago. These were followed by a line of freebie 100$ dept store mowers, typically powered by B+S. The Toros will prolly outlast me. It was doing research on the Toros that led me here. I have learned here that the only weak point on the'Zuki is the carb. I guess that you cant buy parts for them them, just a new carb which is expensive.
Some models also used the Lawn-Boy 'V' engine.
Mine had no rust-in fact the plastic was still on the engine when I unboxed it. The only rust was a little surface rust on the blade-otherwise I had a 17 year old brand new mower. It was a pretty red.
Below I've pasted a link to the Toro parts book showing an exploded Mikuni with part numbers. If you need a gasket or some other expendable bit, and your Toro dealer is no help, I would try contacting Mikuni directly (http://www.mikuni.com/fs-carburetor.html).
Here is a link that might be useful: Toro exploded carburetor
The old suzukis had one small problem....the coil would crap out on them and the reapir was a new coil and flywheel to the tune of around $110.00 .....I sold mine on Ebay for that reason !!! Long live old O.M.C.'s
Sounds like the Suzukis had a real fan base. Were they introduced to compete with the Lawn Boys? I wonder if they compared well with the old OMC 2-cycles....
I have a Toro Recycler 21" RWD 3 speed made in 1990 Has a 4 cycle Suzuki GTS 5 hp .........Great engine, great mower. A couple of weeke ago finally replaced the original blade with a Gator.
Speaking of the 20581, there's one on eBay right now w/ the 2-cycle Suzuki. It's selling for $100--and that's without the bag! (No, this isn't mine.)
Here is a link that might be useful: 20581 on eBay
I had a Toro with a Suzuki engine for years and years. Finally went to another mower because the deck fatigued and a wheel fell off (didn't know anyone that could weld aluminum). Great engine.
I own 5 of the 2 cyc Suzus....and one of the 4 cyc. Great engines, power to spare and I enjoy the happy burble of that 2 stroke.
Got the chance to try some actual mowing with my $20 thrift store Toro/Suzuki the other day. In one word: awesome! Nice power, quiet, very light, and best of all it cuts great. It sounds cool too--a nice mechanized hum. I didn't try bagging so can't report on that. The grass was a bit long and damp in a couple spots but that engine just hummed right along.
The only disappointment is a slight leak from the gas tank on the side where it mounts to the engine. This wasn't apparent when the tank was at 1/4 or less. Any more than that and it starts to leak. I'm wary of trying any kind of patch, especially on plastic. A new tank at the dealer is $41, and there's one on eBay for half that. But I think I'll try finding a "mower junkyard" before I buy a new tank. Otherwise the tank would end up costing more than the mower did!
That Toro 20581 on ebay looks like it is in great shape.
The one I looked at was definitely in worse shape, but I understand the engines are solid.
you should talk to someone at an auto parts store. theres probably some type of epoxy that could fix a plastic tank. bernie.
Bmm....Check with your local Toro dealer, there was a known problem with the fuel tanks on those Suzu 2 strokes. I adopted an abandoned 20684 that was made in `86 and Toro replaced the gas tank for free. Even paid the shop for labor. It depends on how old your unit is, there's a serial number break where they fixed the problem but my senile mind can't remember such details anymore.
I have a Toro Suzuki 2-cycle mower that surges then stalls after using 15 to 1/2 hour after starting. When it cools down it will start again with the same results. Any Suggestions??
Paul, next time it stalls, removing and replacing the gas cap, then try starting again. If it starts, the problem is a clogged gas cap vent. If it doesn't start, I'd open a new post on the subject with a title like "Suzuki 2-stroke surges" and see if you can get some of the smart guys here to offer their theories. You could also search for the word surge in this forum -- I've seen some posts on that related to the 2-stroke Lawnboys.
Fordman and Torowrench, thanks for your suggestions. I will try both. I filled the tank to 1/3 when I mowed over the weekend and surprisingly it didn't leak. I was able to finish the yard on that much fuel, so as long as I don't fill it past that level it might be OK as is.
Interesting find over the weekend too. Stopped at a yard sale and much to my surprise saw 3 mowers sitting out front--2 of which were Toros with the unmistakable Suzuki 2-stroke. Even better they were all FREE. No, this wasn't a dream, and I figured I had my leaky gas tank problem fixed. I loaded up the Toro that was in the best shape (the other was seriously tired), pretty excited about my find. Get home, unload it, and it turns out the tank on the "new" mower will not fit the one on my mower. It won't clear the bagging mechanism/lever. The leaky tank on my mower is angled on one side to clear the lever.
Oh well, at least I scored another Toro with the Suzuki. It's an '87 16785 21" self-propelled:
I hope to have it working this summer too :-) It's not in the greatest shape, but you can't beat the price either!
I just tried my Suzuki 2 stroke Toro this afternoon and am impressed. Started easily, lots of power although the bagging action is not as good as the Honda HR21 it is replacing. Still, it is a lot lighter and easier to trim with. Definately a keeper. And I love the sound of a healthy oil burner lol
Does anybody have a toro rear bagger/ self-propelled/ mulcher with the suzuki 2-cycle engine and the blade brake that they would want to sell? Or could point me in the right direction to finding one? Please help :)
You can find the 2-cycle models on eBay if you keep an eye out for them...
I have a Toro GTS rear bagger, model #20584. Can anyone tell me if this has a suzuki engine and what year it is?
Yep, it has the suzuki. To find its age, go to Toro's site and follow the link to "look up parts". With the model # and serial #, you should be able to find its age. It was built between 84-89 for sure, to find the exact age you need the serial number.
Thanks, I thought it did because it has the aluminum deck and it's a 2 cycle. Lately she's been blowing a little more smoke than usual and has been fouling plugs every 45min and just dies. Won't start again no matter what you do unless you put in a new plug in her then she runs strong for another 45min. It has seemed to lose a little power since this started. Could this be the coil because when it dies it sounds electrical? I've even wait until it cooled down and it still wouldn't start. I posted this under lawn mowers and scraping it was suggested but it seems like you guys know more about this type of engine so any advice would be helpful. Thank you
check the compression-sounds like the rings are about shot
Pull the muffler and check the exhaust ports. They could be pl;ugged with carbon.
Clean your air filter if you haven't done so already.
Thanks, I'll put her up on the bench today, I hope it's not the rings.
Does anyone know where you can get manuals for these engines. Mine is a 1989 26680C that I've had from new. I've got a feeling I'll have to replave rings and bearings eventually! Its been cutting my 1/3 acre for the last 16 years and cutting down long grass for others when there garden has got away from them!! Also it seems to be running a bit slow. Any Ideas of how to set the govenor?
I have that service manual in .pdf format. Post or send me an email addy and I'll send it to you.
Need some help. I have a 1987 toro that I left gas in for two years of non-use (yes, I know - not smart). Of course, the first 15 years of use, I had absolutely no problems and it always started on the 1st or 2nd pull. After being foolish, I couldn't start it.
Here's my problem, I had to take the carb. apart to clean out all the gunk and get the float unstuck. In order to do that, I took apart all of the throttle linkages and springs, figuring, it can only go back together one way. Now, I can't figure out how to get it all back together correctly. What's the saying - a picture is worth a thousand words - or perhaps about 5 hours of messing with the engine?
Does anyone have a diagram or picture that I could get to help me get this back together? Basically need to know what goes where from the throttle cable to the choke, to the throttle spring.
I don't have a service manual, so perhaps it is outlined there with instructions on how to adjust things after reconnecting everything correctly.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Have you checked the parts viewer on Toro's website? You put in your model number and it will have part diagrams.
Yes, did just that and found the service manual for the engine - thank you. Now I need to find a new governor spring.
I have two of these great mowers.Does anyone do spares for these old Toro Suzuki two cycle machines mail order or even dismantle old ones for spares?I have a problem with the recoil starter on one of my mowers and the prices quoted by a local supplier seem excessive (designed to make me buy a new mower).
teapoteagle...Yes I too would like to know about who handles spare parts for these mowers. The two bolts that hold the blade on cost me $17 at the Toro dealer. I have a Suzuki powered Toro with the BBC.
Try Gibsons Outdoor Shop-Beaver Dam Wisconsin.He has a few sitting outside.Would probably sell pretty cheap.
I collected the parts to repair the recoil starter on my mower today.In conversation with the chap behind the counter I mentioned that I thought the parts were priced to encourage owners to replace their machines rather than repair them and right away he allowed me a useful discount.It seems that it is worth asking.The mower started first time once the recoil starter had been reassembled.
I enjoyed reading this post while looking for information on my Toro model 20684; I am trying to figure out how I caused it to not start anymore.
I got it out to cut the grass this weekend; noticed an oily puddle on the deck beneath the air cleaner housing. So I popped open the box to (1) clean the filter, 'cause it needed it and (2) check on the source of the puddle. It appeared to be drooling slowly from the carburetor throat. I started the engine to see whether the leak affected performance. It didn't appear to, as it started right up and ran normally.
Nonetheless, I set out to clean the filter element (wash, dry, re-oil, like usual) and removed the cleaner housing to clean it and also check to make sure fuel wasn't coming from elsewhere on the carb itself.
I didn't see any external leaks on the carb but noticed that it had slid out on the two long studs a little when I removed the housing. The topside area was a bit dirty so I checked to make sure no obvious dirt fell down the backside to the reed valve; didn't see any. So I pushed it back, then cleaned and vacuumed the dirt off the top of the carb, reassembled and installed the housing with cleaned filter element.
Went to start it back up and - nothing now. It doesn't seem to fire at all when the rope is pulled. It's not leaking at all either, but now I have a whole new non-starting problem.
I just bought a 20684 model Toro for $150. It runs wide-open. I think it might need a governor spring. Does anyone have any idea where I might be able to get one and also a diagram to know how to install it.
go to the toro website and plug in your model#
Any body intrested in a new old stock 20581 toro mower. Aluminum deck 21 ". Taking offers. Thanks
Can any one help me locating a coil for my Toro 2 cycle 47pz2 mod#20581,it,s not the kill switch all ready unhooked it..If you have a good one or know of after market source,please let me know,i also so have parts to trade too if you need some,I have 3 of these 2 cycle 47pz2 and need 2 coils..512-635-3786 ...Some person by the name of Neal had one but I can,t find the post after I logged in....Help
Roundrockcrawler, unfortunatelly I can't help you out. I was looking for the coils myself and having bad luck at it. I'm just going to have to buy new for the big prices because the engine on my 22040 is not even close to worn out. These engines are some of the best I've ever dealt with other that the price for "certain" parts like coils that have a shorter life that the rest of the engine components. I really can't complain too much, my Toro is a commercial with more hours on it than I can only imagine.
Keep your eyes peeled for Toros in the back of shops and hardware stores as there are several out there but otherwise there are no aftermarket suppliers for Suzuki engines that I know of.
Good luck, Neal
It's alive! (And hopefully, so is this old thread)
I finally got my Toro Suzie-Q lawn mower running again! It's Model # 16785, side discharge and front wheel self propelled.
I had a drive wheel come off several years ago. The spring-steel pin that held the wheel gear on the axle broke off and I could never seem to drive the pin out and it ate up drill bits trying to drill it out. Since I also had a John Deere lawn tractor, I just kept using that (JD) and left the Toro in the crawl space to rot. One day, and I don't know why, I decided to try to drive the pin out of the axle. With the right tools and paitence I got that done. I ordered two new drive wheels since the originals were totally worn out and also some new pins to hold the wheel gears on. I put everything back together, put some fresh gas mix in the tank and tried to start it up. It came alive in about 6 pulls, but ran real rough. Then it started a very high speed vibration and a lot of noise. I shut it down and started to investigate. First, the carb was totally full of crap. Second, I thought that either the blade brake had broken or one of the bearings was shot. After a quick look around, I couldn't see anything wrong with the blade brake. so I took the engine totally apart. Yes, the upper bearing had dried out and nothing in it was still round. I ordered new bearings, seals, rings, flywheel key, carb kit and pulley for the drive belt (I broke the old pulley trying to get it off). I cleaned out the tank, fuel line, and carb and I finally put the engine back together. I wish I had taken a picture of the governor and carb linkages before I took everything apart, but with the help of a Toro .pdf shop manual and an online parts "finder" that had blow-ups of the mower parts, I finally figured it out. I also bought a new blade, spark plug and air filter from the local Toro shop.
The darned thing fired up in about 4 pulls. It ran almost like brand new except it had a bad surge at low speed and a very minor surge at high speed. Aparently, I hadn't cleaned out the jets good enough and the low speed jet was almost clogged. I got some information off the Internet about 2-cycle engines surging. Most folks said surging was usually caused by a lean fuel mixture of some type. I fixed the clogged low speed jet with carb cleaner and a wire from a twist tie.
It now runs like brand spanking new. Starts on the second pull and it has a purr / bubbling at low idle and the familiar two stroke humm-put-put at high speed. The only problem I have now is keeping up with the mower at full speed! I put some SeaFoam in the gas to help clean the carb even more and also stabilize the gas / oil mix.
I used Milaca Lawn & Garden for the parts, shop manual and mower part blow-up drawings (http://www.milacalawn.com/home2.asp). The prices weren't cheap for the parts, but Milaca had everything I needed, plus they had the Toro / Suzuki Shop Manual available as a free download.
Somebody has a new Suzuki short block on eBay. Right now, it's at about $50. Great deal, but I doubt if my engine will ever break again. It really broke because of my mis-treatment. I can't even guess how many hours I have on the mower and during most of those mowing hours I wasn't gentle on the Toro.
If you have the right tools and paitence you can fix these engines yourself. If I can do it, you can for sure. The only time I needed outside help was to get the broken pulley off of the crankshaft. I took the crankshaft to an automotive machine shop. They said that their 5 ton press was moaning trying to get the pulley off since it had bonded with the crankshaft due to corrosion. I also rented a harmonic balancer puller from a local auto parts store. I used the puller to get the flywheel off. I also had to get long bolts that fit the flywheel to use with the puller.
Anyway, now I'm ALMOST looking for an excuse to cut the grass.
Thanks for listening. I hope I helped someone out and sorry if I bored you.
Here is a link that might be useful: Milaca Lawn & Garden
Got to love old 2-cycle engines. I have a late 50's Jacobsen with the 2-cycle that runs like new. Also got a 1988 Lawnboy 8480 with a perfectly running F engine. Just got rid of a 1986 8480 that ran well but I didnt need it anymore.
just a tip to anyone having problems, with no spark from the coils, i own a small engine shop, try putting the coil in your oven for about 20 minutes on about 220 degs make sure your not melting it just warming it up. i have done this with many kinds and have about a 90 percent success rate, give it a try
I just thought I would put in my 2 cents. I bought a new Toro 2 cycle in 1989, Model 20684. Used it every summer for 5 months a year. NEVER been in a repair shop & I am not a mechanic. I try to keep it clean and only do routine maintenance. ONLY one problem now. I am looking for new rear wheels. They are slick and loose traction. Any suggestions?
I have a model 20581 runs well But I am losing all of my gas out of the air filter opening Just rebulit the carb Anyone have any ideas of what it could be ?
Yes, either your float isn't floating or the needle isn't making proper contact w/the needle o-ring seal. These conditions will allow fuel to over fill the float chamber & spill out thru the air intake &/or into the engine.
Take the bowl off again & ck the float for viability...if it's good, try adjusting the float needle tang so it pushes the needle valve into it's seat/seal further. If that dosen't do the trick, the o-ring may nd replacing.
I'd like to modify my answer. If your 20581 is anything like my 20680, there isn't any way to adj the float & there's no o-ring seal above the float needle.
I just took my carb apart (fourth time) & gave it a really good going over. The tip of the float needle is the seal! It's rubber!
I recommend you do what I did & have a really close inspection of the carb. I had an issue w/the float sticking in the UP position, keeping fuel from filling the bowl.
Your float may be stuck as well, keeping it from shutting off the ingress of fuel. I fixed mine by removing the float & needle, then using a dremmel w/a new ss wire wheel, polished the inside of the bracket the float pivots in. I kept at it until the float moved up/down freely.
Ironicly, now I've got the same problem you have!!! I'm going to try getting up into the hole the rubber tipped needle seats into & polish it - it's a very narrow hole however...not sure how I'll procede yet. I wonder if replacement float needles are still available?
Hi folks, I am kind of a "drive by" posting just looking for some advice, so any replies would be greatly appreciated.
I have a 1985 model 20584, not sure if the engine is a Suzuki or not. But I had not used the mower for several years and I wanted to get it out and use it for some trim mowing.
It would not start so I removed the old fuel, made sure the carb was working and the spark lug was sparking. I put in some fresh fuel and after about ten pulls it started and ran rough for about 30 seconds, it smoothed out but the engine surges a lot and will only run at full choke or ust a bit off of full choke. If I put the throttle in the fast postion or the slow position the engine quits, but it will start right back upp with one pull.
Any suggestions from you experts here?
Thanks in advance,
Yours has the Suzuki 47PD3-2 engine. You need to tear down the Mikuni carb, clean all passages, and boil it out in carb cleaner.
ggoyeneche, thanks for the reply, but are you serious, I have to not only take a carb apart but boil it in carb cleaner? Wow, that sounds like something I don't want to do. But I was figuring anyone answered me it would be with that answer.
I am not sure I can handle taking any carb apart especially one this small. If I do try to tackle this problem any idea how I can find out what setting I would need to set the jets at when putting the carb back together?
All jets are fixed on the Mikuni BV-15. If you clean everything properly, it runs. There are no adjustments.
Okay that sounds easy enough, maybe I will try that later today.
Thanks again for the advice...
Here is a link that might be useful: Stoogetopia
I have a 1984 Toto 3 speed self propelled 2 cycle engine mower that I bought new that now has a broken blade brake clutch belt. How do I determine which make engine I have and where can I get a belt? Toro has told me the belt is no longer available? The engine runs great.
I have a 1984 Toro GTS rear bagger 3 speed self propelled 2 cycle engine mower that I bought new in 1984 that now has a broken blade brake clutch belt. How do I determine which make engine I have and where can I get a BBC belt? Toro has told me the belt is no longer available? The engine runs great.
You need get the Toro mower number (16XXX or 206XX or similar) and enter it on Toro's Website (see below).
You could have a Suzuki engine or a Tecumseh engine. Suzuki also made 4 strokes for Toro, but I think that was later vintage.
I believe all Toro BBC's use a 42-0882 belt which is 1/2 x 23, or a 42-0881 which is 1/2 x 22. Even if Toro doesn't sell the belt, 1/2 (4L) belts are readily available.
Here is a link that might be useful: Toro Solutions Center
I have an old 20584 walk behind with the Susuki engine. This spring it finally died, the coil is dead. Anyone know where I can get one. It's the 81-1990 coil. I understand I can use a 81-2820 but I'll need to change the flywheel.
I did not think you could substitute the 81-1990 coil with the later 81-2820 coil, even after changing the flywheel. However, I haven't tried, so someone may have more experience.
As for the newer 81-2820 coil, they have been profitable for me on Ebay. I have sold several ranging from $65 to $90 each. Makes the carcass more profitable than the complete mower,however, I don't have any now.
I really don't use this mower any more. As luck would have it I was digging it out of the garage to get it running and cleaned up to sell on craigs list. I got a couple pops out of it then nothing. After a few tests the coil shows bad.
As you said, looks like I parts this thing out. Two years ago I put 2 brand new rear drive wheels and cogs on this.... so if anyone is looking for wheels......
I have a 2cycle suzuki engine model pz247 and i have slop in the crankshaft and it sound like the blade is about to come off. could the bearings be shot and allows the to move back and forth or it a rod coming loose ?
The "slop" may be either a loose blade (tighten the blade retaining bolt) or a loose/sheared woodruff key in the crank adapter that the blade bolts to (replace the 1/4" key). The crank itself wallowing around in its lower bearing support indicates bigger problems and the need to tear it down for inspection/rebuild.
If you do have the Suzuki 47PZ2, you have a rare bird indeed. This was the first year of this engine series (1983) and the only year to use mechanical points triggered ignition. The following years 1984-2003, the 47P used solid state ignition, which used a small transistor mounted in the coil casing to fire the ignition ..which was prone to heat/vibration fatigue and often failed - see other threads on here & elsewhere about expensive 47P coil replacement and attempts to save them by heating them in an oven ..all thanks to that dime sized transistor that you don't have to worry about.
Very interesting thread. I was undecided on a purchase from craigslist, this thread has confirmed my intent to buy this Toro. Can someone give me an idea of what age Toro this unit is? The seller does not know, and I don't have the model info.
Here is a link that might be useful: Toro 2 Cycle Suzuki Listing
Without the part number it's hard to guess the age. Looks like a 20684 from the late 1980's or maybe a bit later. I doubt that it is a 5.5hp. That vintage were usually rated 4.5hp.
Good machine, but keep in mind it is a Consumer mower, and not the Professional Proline.
Well I bought the Toro for $125. It starts first pull, and sounds like a dirt bike (awesome). I can't seem to find any identification marks, like a model number. Where is the model number located on these models? I need to order a set of rear wheels.
hi wonder if anyone could help me i have a toro commercial with a suzuki 2cycle 5.5hp engine the mower has three gears self drive and grass bag how much would it be worth now and are they any good.Thanks