My used but free toro 2 cycle.

MDKeating(North Dakota - Zone 3)June 12, 2013

I found A toro 2 cycle In the shed Of my house and have been trying to rehab it,first the thing needed the usual,filter,fuel line,ect.
but when I got it going it would rev then pause ,rev then pause,over and over in the "open choke position"(fast).
so I fiddled with the spring on the throttle gov,every move I made the Dam Thing Would do the reverse of what seemed to be the remedy .spring loose slow rev pause , tight spring same thing,the only way I could keep it running was to choke it hard ,and of coarse it over heated after a short time,so I know I need to replace the spring ,
But my 2 cycle knowledge it minimal (and my spelling worse)
any help please and thank you.

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baymee(LehighValleyPA)

Most likely, a thorough internal cleaning of your carburetor will solve that problem.

I have heard that there is a market for the ignition coil, just in case you give up on it.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2013 at 9:03PM
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MDKeating(North Dakota - Zone 3)

I cleaned the carb and ran a soak on the internal both with seafoam,I'v also disasembaled the carb to see if the pin was sticking and every thing looks clean and working?
The "rev" and "pause" are evenly timed - rev with power -2 second pause with machine and parts still moving- then rev and repeat,I'v never had this problem and I was wondering if it was A coil problem?
Now it being A sazuki engine if I open up the choke and pin open the gov. I can make the thing want to fly to the moon,I just cant seem to get it to regulate it self..
thx.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2013 at 2:34PM
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baymee(LehighValleyPA)

You have to clean all the internal ports and passageways with carb cleaner and compressed air before you can rule out the carb. I still believe it's the carb.

Is it grossly overrevving or well under 3000 rpm on the high speed?

    Bookmark   June 13, 2013 at 3:01PM
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1saxman

The Toro w/ Suzuki 2-cycle I believe is a commercial-rated mower, well-worth restoring to proper operation. These are still sought-after on the used mower market. Unfortunately I am unfamiliar with the governor principle or operation. Does it have a movable air vane under the shroud? If so, can you push it over with a stick and speed up the engine? If it were the other 2-cycle they used on that mower, the Toro/Lawn-Boy 'V' engine, I think I could trouble-shoot it. Generally, choking any small engine does not cause overheating (actually the opposite), so that aspect of the problem is perhaps indicative of an air leak in the intake tract, where it is getting enough fuel to run but is still sucking too much air, resulting in a lean condition. What oil mix are you using? I would guess a 32:1 mix would be good enough. It's possible that if you're running 50:1 it could overheat from insufficient oil.
Obviously, a restriction in the carburetor as already posted would make it act the same way by forcing it to run lean.
Also pull the shroud and see if the cooling fins are clean and the magneto/CD pack is not loose.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2013 at 3:37PM
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MDKeating(North Dakota - Zone 3)

air vain - yes ,that is what I was calling A gov,and if I prop it open it will even out breifly then over rev but with even combustion.

fuel mix is 50-1 as stated on the moer and fuel cap,should I try less oil?

clean carb - I will get some carb cleaner to try,my first cleaning was with seafoam and wire to move thru all vents but I did not have compressed air , I will move to reclean the carb as you suggest , thank you both.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2013 at 5:10PM
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ggoyeneche

I've had a number of Toro with the Suzuki 47P engine, both Professional and Consumer. And yes, I'm one of those guys who has made a bit of beer money parting them out.

First of all, the governor is mechanical flyweight, located inside the engine block, running on the crankshaft. Sounds like governor is operating properly, and the hunting is because fuel mixture is too lean.

Second, coil is OK. Usually either works or doesn't, although sometimes coil will fail when hot, and then recover when engine cools off. If it starts and runs, move on unless you have more definitive evidence coil is bad. New one is more than $200, and used bring $75 to $100 on Ebay. Expensive to troubleshoot by swapping coils.

Third, 50:1 is what Toro recommends. No need to go richer, and you will only carbon up the engine and muffler. Use of good grade of 2 cycle oil. For that matter Toro specified TCW-3 and there are much better synthetics now on the market.

OK, in my judgement you need to tear down the carburetor, do an overnight soak in carb cleaner, install a kit, and you should be good to go. Unfortunately parts for the Mikuni are expensive, so you might want to try a shade tree fix. Get some Sea Foam and add it to you gas-oil mixture, about 10:1. Since you are running, you know your carb isn't completely blocked. Get mower running and over a tank or two, the Sea Foam should help clean out the carburetor. Not fool proof, but only about $10, and if it doesn't help your "plan B" is to do a full carburetor rebuild or replacement (again about $200-250 new, or $75 to $100 Ebay for carburetor, or $50 or so for the kit).

BTW, my info came from experience and the Toro 492-0260 Service Manual.

    Bookmark   June 14, 2013 at 5:20PM
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MDKeating(North Dakota - Zone 3)

Yes, SeaFoam has already been added to the fuel. I am going to try a carburetor tear-down and soak. Thank you everyone for your input and help!

I'll let you all know how it goes!

    Bookmark   June 14, 2013 at 9:19PM
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1saxman

'fuel mix is 50-1 as stated on the moer and fuel cap,should I try less oil?'

Heck no! Do as the directions on the engine indicate.

    Bookmark   June 14, 2013 at 11:18PM
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rdaystrom

Cleaning the carburetor is the general idea but unless you get specific and get down to the actual problem it would be like a neurosurgeon randomly probing around someone's brain trying to fix headaches. Surging is usually caused by a lean condition at certain throttle positions causing the governor to "hunt". Most of the time this lean condition is caused by a plugged low speed jet. Occasionally the main jet can be partly clogged too but it is larger and doesn't clog as easily. Lawnmower carbs are simple. Needle, seat, and float for fuel supply. Main jet and low speed jet for proper fuel mixture at various throttle positions. The low speed jet is almost always the culprit. It has a tiny hole and can clog with even the smallest particle or gummy fuel residue. Soaking and blowing air sometimes cleans these but in my experience a small wire (like a small steel guitar wire) will clean the low speed jet quickly. Some of these Mikuni carbs have a weird low speed jet that unscrews from the outside and look like a standard straight through jet. Looks can be deceiving because it actually has a side hole and a bottom hole and that top hole goes nowhere. That's right, the fuel turns a right angle through that jet. Keep in mind that no jet vents to the outside even though it looks like it. Clean your jets with wire and blow air or spray carb cleaner through them to check flow and reassemble the carb. Install the carb and it should run good. Government mandated that manufacturers remove user adjustable mixture controls in hopes of forcing an engine to run lean and be "cleaner". Even a slight obstruction in fuel flow in these non adjustable carbs causes a failure that could quickly be adjusted out on older carbs with adjustable mixture control.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2013 at 2:17AM
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baymee(LehighValleyPA)

Here are a few jets and what to look for. They may have similarities to your carb, of which I have no pics.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2013 at 5:24AM
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MDKeating(North Dakota - Zone 3)

Thanks for the pics...
OK . I did another tear down of the carb And ran wire and used A ton of carb clearer but she still runs like crap,Im soaking The fiddly bits in sea foam and will poke with more wire -
Would the control spring cause an issue.
It doesnt look like it fits.it looks to large and has almost no resistance.
Im having A hard time finding A replacment locally .

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 7:05PM
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baymee(LehighValleyPA)

I posted a rebuild of your carb on a new topic in this forum.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lmower/msg061222435034.html

    Bookmark   June 30, 2013 at 12:25PM
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MDKeating(North Dakota - Zone 3)

Update _
I have rebuilt the carb,cleared every hole/vent and found no clogs - still the the engine "pulses"
SO-
I take it an hour away and pay a ransom to be told that there is nothing wrong and the machine fits factory specs.
Now- im going to try moving things out of spec.
Starting with the inner air valve (not sure the tech.name)
I loosened the screw on the little plate and rotated it so that it cant close all the way(its slightly oval)
then tightened the screw and reassembled the mower and headed in to battle.
The engine does better with the pulsing but has much less horse power and still requires constant toying with the clutch,
and as always once the thing does start "pulsing"
It takes choking it almost to death and then bringing the throttle back at the last minute then fiddling till I find the best spot in between "popping" and too much "pulsing"
I dont think I have the tolerance for a machine that requires this much hand holding,I live in ND and the winters are too long and the summers are to short,
We expect machines to work up here and if they dont we move to the ones that will.
Im going to try once more at fiddling with this POS but after that Im done,
And as no one will pay money for these things up here ,
And Im out over $100 ,
Im going to light the thing on fire and roast marshmallows!
After witch I plan to purchase a husqvarna trimer moer as soon as my budget allowes .

Again -
THANK YOU - Baymee and every one that offered a hand.

"One mans junk-Might still be junk"

    Bookmark   June 30, 2013 at 11:23PM
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baymee(LehighValleyPA)

Recently I had a mower that gave symptoms of fuel starvation, so I cleaned the carb and didn't correct the problem. I removed the fuel line and it was filled with white flakes. I removed the flakes and it ran well until it filled with flakes again. Waiting now to empty the tank.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2013 at 2:58PM
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1saxman

'I loosened the screw on the little plate and rotated it so that it cant close all the way(its slightly oval)'

The reed valve? Holy Cow! That has to seal when the piston is on the down stroke so the pressure in the crankcase will blow the fresh fuel/air charge into the combustion chamber. That wasn't your problem. It's running out of gas, and that can be a vexing problem for sure.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2013 at 11:40AM
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MDKeating(North Dakota - Zone 3)

Oh I figure Im going to blow it up one way or another.

I have people telling me to pin the thing all the way open but I didnt like how it speeds up and gets real loud with Way to much power,seemed dangerous .

Fuel getting to filter - check
Fuel getting to carb - check
Rebuilt carb - check
I was thinking to fiddle with the spring tension as well.
maybe re position an arm or two.

The only luck Iv had is fiddling with the air inlet bits.
(Please see - set fire and marshmallows)

Thank you though.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 2:08AM
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phototone

A wild hair here. Have you checked your flywheel and flywheel key to make sure it hasn't sheared and allowed the flywheel to rotate thus giving an out-of-time spark??

    Bookmark   October 19, 2013 at 11:31PM
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1saxman

''I loosened the screw on the little plate and rotated it so that it cant close all the way(its slightly oval)'

I said it was the reed valve (not sure if the Suzuki has one) but just checking back in on this thread I think he was talking about either the throttle or choke plate.

    Bookmark   October 21, 2013 at 5:35PM
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bsmith717(6)

Does it pulse under load? Also perhaps the fuel needle in the carb or the needle seat is worn and even a full rebuild is a hopeless cause.

Any way you can post a video of it running/surging?

    Bookmark   October 22, 2013 at 9:15PM
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buckiboy

I posted a pic of my Toro 2 cycle on lawnboy leaf blower question

    Bookmark   October 23, 2013 at 9:22PM
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buckiboy

MD I am feelin your pain, this weekend I decided to mow with the Toro 2Cycle. About 6 min into it it started surging. I loosened the cap and nothing. I took the carb apart and it's as clean as a new on. Put it back together and mowed for about 4 min, same thing. Finished with another mower and went back to the Toro, started great let it idle then about 4 min started surging again with low power....

    Bookmark   October 28, 2013 at 8:19AM
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vgg659(Z9 LA)

Buckiboy, any idea what's wrong with your Toro? Mine seems to be doing the same thing. It's been running like a clock, and suddenly started surging.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2013 at 6:54PM
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vgg659(Z9 LA)

It turns out that I had a plugged fuel filter. It runs great again.

    Bookmark   November 10, 2013 at 9:23AM
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