small engine repair IV.....

andrelaplume2(usa)September 25, 2009

Ok, 4th post for those still helping..Ariens, HSK600 engine, 1996 model, stalled under load last year, you guys helped me identify the carb and how to disassemble it and clean it. Did so. Reassembled, started and was running but leaking gas. I bought the suggested part kit. I think I was missing the seat for the needle and the gasket around the screw was shot and thatwas why it was leaking. I just reassmebled it with the new parts. No more gas leak but it does not start either.

I think my trouble is with the needle. I really have no feel for how it should be when back in place. Its akward but I put a little mirror in and I am pretty sure the original seat was no longer in place. I pushed the new one in as far as it would go. I hung the needle on the float and sort of pushed the needle in the hole where the seat was and stuck the hinge pin back in. It feels to me like the needle touches the seat. There is a little play in the float but not much...there was more when the seat was missing. I have no idea if the float should bob up and down very loosely or be stiffish. I guess I do not mechanically understand what the parts are suppose to do. Still I fell like I have to be close! I tried to take some pics to show how the stuff is hanging before I put the bowl back on. The open end of the needle clip is pointing towards the camera and the choke lever. There is gas in the tank. The carb bowl appears shaped to let the float hang at an angle so I am pretty sure I have it back on right. Ideas?

From far away:

A little closer:

Tried to get a cloe up of how the needle hangs:

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aj_allen

You have 2 seats installed. The float should not be that high.

AJ

    Bookmark   September 25, 2009 at 11:16PM
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indy452(NC Kansas)

Whoaaa! That float should not be sitting at a 30* angle. It should be almost level.

You need to take a small flashlight and look down the needle/seat shaft and remove the seat you installed with a small dental style pick and then remove the old one thats obviously still in there. You will only need one seat. Use care to not damage the seat or you will need another one.

Then your float will be more level. Re-assemble and give it a shot.

Neal

    Bookmark   September 25, 2009 at 11:31PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

I'll try...it really only looked like one was in there unless the hole on the old one was smaller than the new....

    Bookmark   September 26, 2009 at 7:37AM
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ericwi

This might help. The reason you have a float is so that gasoline enters the carb at a constant pressure. The float rises and falls as gasoline is used by the engine. When the level of gasoline in the float bowl falls off a bit, the needle valve is supposed to open, so fresh fuel, from the fuel tank, can flow into the bowl. However, the actual place where fuel enters the airstream is the throat of the carburetor. There will be a small brass tube that protrudes into the throat. There is a small passage, or path, that carries fuel from the float bowl to the throat. The gasoline has to flow through a narrow orifice, called a jet. The jet is usually made of machined brass. It limits the amount of fuel flow. Since gasoline is not totally pure, and it contains varnish and/or gums that slowly deposit in the carburetor, the holes in the jet will eventually get clogged up, and the gas can't get to the throat of the carb. From your description, I don't think that you have found the jet.

    Bookmark   September 26, 2009 at 12:02PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

ok, I disassenbled again and removed the seat. I went in again and sure enough a second seat came out...a bit mangled. The fist one still looked good. I shot some carb cleaner in again an put the new seat back in and push down as far as I could with the flat end of a drill bit. I stuck the needle back on the float and the float on the hinge with the needle in place. This time the float sat level and easily has some play in it. I put the bowl back on and tried to start it...nothing. Remember, earlier it would at least start but leak gas. No gas leaks...but it will not start. I squirted some carb cleaner in this bowl looking thing just below the choke lever. Sure enough it started right up but immediately died. So I assum its an issue of gettin gthe fule to where it needs to go. I popped off the fuel line and fuel spilled out so thats not the issue. Ideas...It was running before but leaking! Where might this jet be described in the above post...so close.....

    Bookmark   September 26, 2009 at 6:11PM
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ericwi

The brass jet could be screwed onto the bottom of the float bowl. It would be partly visible with the carburetor assembled and in operating condition. Not all carburetors look alike, though. The jet could be pressed into an internal passage, and therefore not easy to see. Is there a brass nut on the bottom of the float bowl?

    Bookmark   September 26, 2009 at 11:29PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

Are you talking about the brass nut with the pin hole that secures the bowl to the carb...if so, yes and it clear. Also...its leaking gas again even though not running....I assume that think washery thing that goes on that brass screw again needs to be replaced. The thing is almost paper thin...guess I need another kit!

Seriously, maybe I should give up.....

    Bookmark   September 28, 2009 at 2:36AM
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rustyj14(W/PA)

Did you install the gasket where the bowl meets the round body of the carburetor? If that is missing or toen or cracked, it will leak.
I do believe your best bet would be to take the carburetor to a repair shop and ask them to make it right. From everything you have written so far, maybe you should take up some other line of work!

    Bookmark   September 28, 2009 at 5:16PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

yea, I replaced the bowl gasket but have removed the bowl again a few times...if the darn thing would run I'd just go and buy another $5 kit and replace it.

Its got to be something simple...? The bolt thru the bowl with the hole is clean. The needle and seat are now. The float is sitting level and moved up and down freely, the needle (I assume is in ok) The open end of the clip face you...looking at the pictire.......whats left?

    Bookmark   September 29, 2009 at 8:21AM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

Yes there IS gas in there! Again, if I add a little gas directly to the area under the choke lever, it starts. Something is starved for fuel...anything I can check?

    Bookmark   September 29, 2009 at 4:27PM
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ericwi

Although I have worked on many carburetors over the years, I have never disassembled and repaired the particular carburetor on your snow blower. If you had the carb off the machine, you could remove the bowl, remove the jet, and confirm that the passage is blocked with crud. Sometimes varnish deposits can be removed with spray solvent cleaner, & sometimes you have to soak the part in solvent for 24 hours to get it clean. Does your carburetor or fuel system have a rubber primer bulb?

    Bookmark   September 29, 2009 at 4:50PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

Is the jet the hole in th escrew that holds the bowl on...if so its clear as far as I can see. Yes , a rubber primer bulb.

I just added some gas directly to the choke 'throat' (???) I pulled once and started right up and ran for maybe 20 seconds, presumable until it burned up the gas I put in. I hit the primer while it was running...not sure it had any effect.

So does that maybe narrow it down? What could I check or recheck?

    Bookmark   September 29, 2009 at 6:18PM
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ericwi

Assuming that you are dealing with varnish somewhere in the carb, where you can't see it, you might be able to solve the problem by adding gum-out or something similar to the gas tank, getting the engine started using the primer button, and keeping it running by priming it manually every few seconds, when it starts to slow down. I was able to get our lawnmower going this spring, when it would start, but not idle. It takes about an hour of operation for the cleaning solvent to do its work. Eventually, the engine should idle on its own. If you try this method, and you are successful, then you can be sure that it was varnish that caused the problem. There are other possibilities, however. There could be a mechanical problem with the throttle, or there could be an air leak somewhere, causing a lean mixture. There is a slight chance that the carburetor has something blocking fuel flow that will not dissolve, like a metal filing, or some other foreign material.

    Bookmark   September 29, 2009 at 10:23PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

After pouring some gas in throat and it starting...I tried pressing the primer to keep it going but it would not. The funny thing was it did run for a few minutes after the first service, thats when I had the gas leak the first time and swapped out the new parts / gaskets.

    Bookmark   September 30, 2009 at 12:33AM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

Well, I took the bowl off on last time and shot carb cleaner in every orifice again. I bought another part bag and plan on giving it one last try. The guy at the parts desk said the carb could just be shot and I might want to buy a new one. I have no idea what they cost or how hard it is to instally. It still bothers me that it starts right up if some gas is added to the throat.

If you guys have any last minute ideas let me know...otherwise I plan on putting it back together..if it starts great, if not, time to move on!

Last question, the needle just hangs on the float AND the open end of the hanger should open towards the choke throat right?

    Bookmark   October 16, 2009 at 9:45AM
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tomplum

You are correct on the valve. The wire slips though the tab and would allow the valve to hang if the float was inverted. Pointed toward the choke. Also, let fuel run though the system before you re-hang the float to ensure debris is out and flow is good. I remember when you posted a pic earlier that appeared to show corrosion in the bottom of the carb. It is common for there to be irreversible damage due to the water which increases the likelihood of needing a replacement.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2009 at 10:23AM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

so just fill the tank and let some fuel run through?

    Bookmark   October 16, 2009 at 11:14AM
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tomplum

Yep

    Bookmark   October 16, 2009 at 11:57PM
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ccpyue

I bought a new Ariens snow thrower model 920400 in last Oct. I used it twice in last winter. Few days ago, I want to change the oil,so I tried to start the engine prepare to let it run for a while before draining old oil, but when I prime it the 3rd prime, gas start leaking out seriously from I think the carb. I contact Ariens, and they said I prime too much. Is this normal to have gas leak out when prime too many time? My old Murray won't do that? Can anyone tell me is this normal for Ariens?

    Bookmark   May 18, 2010 at 8:57AM
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