Just the Principle without the Politics

labrea_gwAugust 28, 2007

Would you plead guilty to a crime you did'nt commit and pay a fine just to get it over with so you did'nt have to go though a long dragged out process. Edd and I got into this conversation tonight in light of today news. Hope the folks who respond stay on the principle without getting into the specifics. I'm a fighter but a few years back Edd was attacked at a Bank and beaten up by an employee, He had just gotten out of the Hospital and was weak so the cop said don't press charges and you won't have to go downtown and be prcessed and so he did'nt but later sued and won. It came up during the hearing why did'nt you press charges and his only response was I did'nt want to go thru the whole dragged out process I was sick. What about evryone else do you ever fight parking or traffic tickets. Do you return deffective merchandise or just let it go. If you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and were told pay a fine and get it over with would you or would you go to court.

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pete41(9ab FL.)

Politicians don't have principles.
They can't afford them.
Myself-depends if I really cared .
In my NRA days I would have come out with both guns blazing.
Now I doubt if there's anything worth paying more than a fine for except an incorrect DUI charge or sex offense,both of which would hurt financially and emotionally.
So I can't see why C didn't fight it.

    Bookmark   August 28, 2007 at 5:41AM
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harryshoe zone6 eastern Pennsylvania

No, I don't have the time or the patience to be involved with our legal system which was devised for the benefit of lawyers and politicians - not citizens.

Oops. You said no politics. Sorry.

    Bookmark   August 28, 2007 at 7:09AM
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carla17(Z7 NC)

Joe, after getting into our law suit and seeing how criminals dance around the system, I am so disappointed in the legal system. My thoughts are if you want justice, it costs a lot.
But NO, I would not plead guilty and pay a fine, another flaw in the system.

Carla

    Bookmark   August 28, 2007 at 8:41AM
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zeffyrose_pa6b7(6b7)

It would depend on the individual case.

Florence

    Bookmark   August 28, 2007 at 9:23AM
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labrea_gw

I feel like somtimes I'm watching a game show! Now remember if you plead guilty you think you might be only getting a year but you know I could give you whats behind door number 2 instead! Tune in Wednesday! Just complaining can't say that I have a solution for the mess.

    Bookmark   August 28, 2007 at 10:05AM
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pete41(9ab FL.)

In the case you are referring to it was obvious the person was desperately hoping it would slip under the media radar.It was worth a gamble.
A trial,even for a minor offense of this nature would be a media circus.
I was being facetious saying I couldn't see why he didn't fight it.
For most of us if it won't raise insurance rates or humiliating us in front of co-workers or neighbors it's just not worth the hassle/cost to fight the little stuff.

    Bookmark   August 28, 2007 at 10:20AM
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athenainwi

I didn't understand this conversation at all until my husband sent me the link to the police report. In that particular case I think he was better off pleading guilty to the misdemeanor and hoping no one would notice. They did have pretty decent evidence against him so I don't think he would have won in court. I don't think his crime was that bad really, just icky.

Nothing like that has ever happened to me. I have learned that there are fights you can't win and sometimes it is better to let the other person win to save your sanity. I had a roommate in college who was trying to get me to move out even though it was my room first and I had invited her to live with me. I fought it for a while but eventually gave up and moved out. It was a good decision for me as my new roommate was very nice and I had a good semester with her with much less stress.

Here is a link that might be useful: Police Report

    Bookmark   August 28, 2007 at 1:48PM
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meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation

We should have a plea for that, lol: says she's not guilty but it's not worth the BS.

I had a lawsuit against RJR that I would've won but unfortunately the hassle was impossible. The other side would've drug it out for years easily and they had more lawyers on staff than human resources people. I didn't have the $$ to sue, either, really. Isn't that counterintuitive! It was a cut-and-dry situation too, and I deserved the 'fines'.

All of the BS benefits lawyers the most, I think. We need a fast-food line for regular folks ;)

    Bookmark   August 28, 2007 at 4:21PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

I have fought for stuff on principle--sometimes it is worth it, and sometimes not. The individual case, as Florence said. You pick your battles. You have to decide what you are willing to give up to fight for something. Give up time, money, your health, your family? Some people are free to fight because they don't have anything to lose.

Have you seen the movie 'The Insider'--it's a good meditation on "doing the right thing"--the main character played by Russell Crowe loses a heck of a lot for the sake of it. It is an extraordinary character meeting an ordinary situation. Like Albus Dumbledore said, it's your choices that make you.

    Bookmark   August 28, 2007 at 7:32PM
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paparoseman(z8 WA. PO.)

If the facts of the case are as presented he had no chance. Men are so homophobic that when they are in a bathroom particularly an airport they look straight ahead and their feet would never get closer than two feet from the partition.

If I were to see someone elses foot come under my side of the stall and then a hand I would not know what it meant but it would seem very odd.

His statement that he is not gay and has never been maybe true but why on earth would he do something that seems so out of the ordinary. The two minutes spent alternately looking through the gap in the door really seems out of place. He did that according to the officers statement before going into the stall.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2007 at 11:25AM
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labrea_gw

There was a guy in my neighborhood I was a dead ringer for also named Joe but folkes called him Joey and he was in the wrong place at the wrong time (an arson fire) and was questioned by the police and let off as innocent. Strange 10 years later people still asked me whatever happened with the whole situation as if I had intimate knowledge of it. I was away on vacation with my family. I have no idea how this chaps going to fare after his 1982 denials of sex with male pages. I can't jump for joy though so many of my friends have the torches lit and making the angry villager sounds.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2007 at 1:53PM
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taureau

About 6 months ago in Baton Rouge at the Neurology center, while waiting for my doctor's appointment for Botox treatment. I went into the Men's room, as I am leaving the urinal and had just zipped up, this creep enters and as we're passing one another he puts his hand on my crotch. I immediately pushed him, with one arm on his shoulder, hard and I told him, "touch me again and I'll knock the dog crap out of you"! Then I pushed him again on the shoulder with one arm and hard. The creep only said, "sorry" and put his head down. Gros Zirable! It's a behavior, not a condition. I was mad enough to beat his butt then and there. Don't know why I didn't. Sure felt like it. I never told the story to anyone, til today.

Not sure what I would do if someone put their hands under a stall in the men's room. I'd probably pee on it or step on it.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2007 at 4:30PM
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rosesinny(7a)

"Would you plead guilty to a crime you did'nt commit and pay a fine just to get it over with so you did'nt have to go though a long dragged out process?"

Never.

If I got into a fight with someone at a bank, I would definitely press charges (after kicking some butt).

The Congressman is slightly different. Soliciting in a stall? Tawdry at best.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2007 at 5:17PM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

"Men are so homophobic that when they are in a bathroom particularly an airport they look straight ahead and their feet would never get closer than two feet from the partition."
____________

Isaac Asimov wrote a mystery story turning on the fact (it is pretty much a fact) that American men don't look at each other in public lavatories.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2007 at 7:00PM
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bettym_grow

LOL taureau, you certainly have no confusion over your "gender". I loved your story.

You go,

Betty

    Bookmark   August 29, 2007 at 7:31PM
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pete41(9ab FL.)

It gets more than a little embarrassing when you get older and have prostrate problems and have to stand there,and stand there,and stand there,and----lol.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2007 at 7:59PM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

No, but the I admit when I am, or do something, wrong and accept the consequences.

And to say you did it so that no one would find out about it if I pleaded guilty is so stupid I can't even talk about it without laughing out loud. Out he goes. Idiot. PUBLIC RECORD, HELLO!!! And go ahead, you and your wife, blame the newspaper, they planted that cop in the bathroom at the Minneapolis airport, yeah they did and you were framed. ID-I-OT!

    Bookmark   August 30, 2007 at 8:46AM
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paparoseman(z8 WA. PO.)

I agree with Diane.There are a number of members of the local motorcycle club who have lawyers on retainer. They get several tickets a year for high speed riding most of which are not in high traffic areas but none the less are for speeds well in excess of the speed limit. I do not go on group rides with them for that reason. When they post a picture of the display from their gps device after a ride that shows the top speed during the ride was 104 mph I just think about my commercial drivers license going out the window for doing that.

I have ridden a motorcycle for 12 years and have done some nice fast riding without a single ticket for anything but if I ever did get stopped I would pay the fine and not whine about how it is not fair.

Lance

    Bookmark   August 30, 2007 at 10:06AM
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Molineux(6b)

I answer your question:

"If they make you lie then it isn't lying."

Pete eating a serving of tomatoes every day will help with that little problem of yours.

    Bookmark   August 30, 2007 at 6:16PM
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pete41(9ab FL.)

Palmetto palm is what the Doctors recommend.
The man made the mistake of telling the cops they shouldn't be using entrapment-you don't say that if you weren't caught in it.

    Bookmark   August 30, 2007 at 6:51PM
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