What Size of Pot do you use for bands

KarenPA_6bJanuary 31, 2014

When you receive the bands in the spring, what size of pots do you use to plant them? Do you plant the band in a small pot and then move it to the permanent pot when the band outgrows the small pot? Or do you plant them in their permanent pots immediately?

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seil zone 6b MI

Plant them up. I start with a one gallon and go up from there depending on how fast the band grow. I've found when I planted them into too large a pot they don't do very well.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2014 at 7:30PM
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KarenPA_6b

Thank you, Seil. When you move them from pot to pot, do they suffer setback? Are there anything that can be done to minimize shock?

    Bookmark   January 31, 2014 at 7:52PM
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bethnorcal9

Yep, plant 'em in a one gallon or maybe slighter larger. Let 'em grow to double or triple the size before potting into bigger pots or in the ground. They'll do a lot better that way. I've never had them go into shock, except when I planted right in the ground.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2014 at 8:30PM
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roseseek

Kousa, as long as the root ball doesn't break up, bare rooting the plant, moving them from the band to a gallon shouldn't cause any shock at all. What I have most often noticed has been the plant looking happier due to fresher, richer soil, more steady water and more even soil temps compared to the often root bound, small band soil ball. Kim

    Bookmark   January 31, 2014 at 8:33PM
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KarenPA_6b

Thank you very much for your responses. They have been very helpful. I would like to try growing roses in containers as I have run out of room in the garden bed.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 9:18AM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

I bought a bunch of 1-gallon and 2-gallon nursery liners in anticipation of my bands coming last April/May. When they arrived, I potted the larger and (presumably) more vigorous ones into 2-gallon liners. The smaller bands, and any which I knew would be slow-growing, went into 1-gallon liners.

Some of the old Hybrid Teas I got were surprisingly vigorous, and so they were repotted into 2-gallons a couple months later. When I did that, I simply slipped the entire soil ball out of the 1-gallon (the roots grew so vigorously that the soil ball remained intact) and into the empty 2-gallon. Then I filled the space between the soil ball and the new container with fresh potting mix. There was absolutely no shock observed.

I got a lot of growth from most of my bands in their first season. I think my potting mix helped a lot -- equal parts by volume of peat moss, Bovung dehydrated cow manure, and shredded hardwood mulch. I added some Jobe's Organic Knock-Out rose food at potting time (1/2 cup per 1-gallon, 1 cup per 2-gallon), and gave the first soaking with fish/seaweed emulsion diluted half-strength. Then I set them out in full-sun, let them get all the crazy rain we get here in Spring, and watched them take off. By the end of the growing season, my bands looked like they were purchased as 1-gallon plants. Oh, and one thing -- that 'Sweet Chariot' turned out to be a mislabeled Hybrid Multiflora whose real name is still to be determined.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: Some before and after showing growth so far

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 10:46AM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

If you intend to keep the roses in pot permanently, start planning for how they are going to be overwintered. It can have an effect on how fast they are potted up, what the pots are made of, etc.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 11:14AM
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KarenPA_6b

I am thinking of overwintering them the way a Gardenweb member (I think it was Seil but not sure) had done for her roses in pots: put them against the south facing wall, fence them in with burlap or tarp, then fill the gaps or space with leaves until the roses are completely covered, and then cover the roses with a sheet of plastic. Would this be sufficient? During the polar vortex, my area got down as low as 0F degree. Does anyone have a simpler method that does not require garage or shed?

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 11:59AM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

If you have an area of the yard where you won't mind digging holes, you can plunge the pots into the ground and mound them over with leaves. What I did for bands-in-pots that didn't get planted yet was to assemble the cement cinder blocks (that just happened to be in my yard) into a box shape, filled the bottom to about 2-3" with mulch (I had just gotten 15 cubic yards delivered to do the yard, so there was plenty to go around), sat the roses on that, and filled in with more mulch to just above the rim of the pots. I've gone out there a few times during the crazy cold weather (which dipped to 1F at its lowest), and so far, no black stems on anything. Roses there are:

'Napoleon' (China)
'Evelyn' (English / Austin)
'Duchesse de Montebello' (Gallica / Hybrid China)
"Grandmother's Hat" (Hybrid Perpetual)
'Chateau de Clos Vougeot ' (Hybrid Tea)
'Chrysler Imperial ' (Hybrid Tea)
'Heirloom' (Hybrid Tea)
'Lagerfeld' (Hybrid Tea)
'Lemon Spice (Hybrid Tea)
'Mirandy' (Hybrid Tea)
'Night' (Hybrid Tea)
'Nigrette' (Hybrid Tea)
'Nocturne' (Hybrid Tea)
'Oklahoma' (Hybrid Tea)
'Rose of Freedom' (Hybrid Tea)
'Perle d'Or' (Polyantha)
'Baltimore Belle' (Hybrid Setigera Rambler)
'Rosa fedtschenkoana' (Species)
'DLFED 3' (Species-Hybrid)

I don't have a picture of it filled, but here's one I found of the "box" as assembled, with the roses crammed together at the back. They were later spaced out much more, filling the box, once I put the mulch in.

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 1:37PM
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KarenPA_6b

Christopher, many thanks for your tips. I did not know you can make your own potting mix. I was thinking of using the Miracle Grow Potting Mix. Yours sounds like a better and cheaper way to go. I have access to some composted mushroom soil. Do you think I can add this to the potting mix?

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 2:33PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

You can incorporate that into a potting mix, I guess. I've never used it so I can't say for sure. My goal was to make something that would allow for air space, hold moisture, and have a good organic nutrient base.

I've read about compaction issues with keeping roses long-term in pots, thus the need for a looser, more free-draining mix than most potting mixes sold and intended for annuals. So I decided to use the shredded mulch for that, picking the cheapest I could find at Home Depot. But, at the same time, I did want to have some fine fluffy moisture-holding stuff, thus the peat moss (which is a base for most potting mixes, anyway). And finally, I wanted to push as much growth as possible from my bands, so they'd be more than just little twigs in the ground when I planted them. Thus the heavy infusion of cow manure and the organic fertilizers. My thought was that the initial excess nutrients leaching out of the manure would get "sponged up" by the mulch, then re-released slowly back into the mix.

If I was to pot roses for longer-term (which I'll be doing when I get large planters for my red HTs), I'd probably put a layer of coarse gravel about 2" thick on the bottom of the pot over the drain holes, then 2" or so of straight mulch, then the potting mix. Each Spring, I'd top-dress with some fresh organic stuff (compost, fertilizer, manure, alfalfa meal, etc.), lightly scratching it into the top couple of inches. Again, as nutrients leach, they go down, replenishing the lower layers. After a few years, the rose would need to be removed, root-pruned, and at that point I'd refresh the potting mix again.

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 2:57PM
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roseseek

Adding stones or gravel to pots has never worked well for me here. I simply fill the pot with the type of soil I intend to plant in and they've all been fine. I would not bury the larger shreds of organic material in the pot. I would fear them remaining too wet and souring, even with the "increased drainage". Each time you change the texture of the soil, you inhibit drainage. I've grown roses and other shrubs in nursery cans and pots for thirty-plus years and the best performers continue to be those which have uniform soil from bottom to top with nothing added for "drainage" at the bottoms. Kim

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 3:08PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

I'll keep that in mind, Kim. Mostly, I was thinking about not clogging the drain holes, and not having soil spill through them. When I potted my bands, I used a layer of newspaper on the bottom, but that was intended for short-term only. I have noticed that once the roots grow and hold things together, there's really no soil spilling, anyway, so I'll probably just skip the bottom layer when I put together my big planters. As far as the mulch, however, I must say that the last few times I've used Miracle Gro mix, there were sticks and twigs mixed in. I thought simply increasing that amount wouldn't really cause a problem. While mine were grown in pots for only a few months before getting planted, I recall only the basic smell of "wet soil" as I removed the roses for planting. It's been working for me so far, but I'll definitely keep your advice in mind.

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 3:18PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

Kim, I was thinking about your post while at work. Do you think the mulch would cause anaerobic problems below the soil line as it breaks down? I'm thinking that is what you meant by "souring". I was thinking that the mulch would act somewhat like a modified hugelkulture system. Before I laid down all the mulch in the beds, I left quite a few branches and bits -- which didn't get used for the log edging -- on the ground and smothered them. I was thinking that would be a good thing over time as they broke down -- as long as I kept adding organic nitrogen. I'm planning on sprinkling blood meal over the mulch in early Spring, followed by a layer of composted manure (a mixture of horse, cow, sheep, goat and pig, sold by my local university agriculture lab for half the price of the Bovung from Home Depot). Our heavy Spring rains would, presumably, rinse this fine particulate matter through the crevices of the mulch. I was thinking that doing this every Spring would allow the wood to decay without robbing nitrogen from the soil. Is this not a good plan?

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 2:03AM
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roseseek

Closer to the surface, the large wood shards shouldn't be an issue, Christopher. When they're buried in soggier soil, particularly in a pot where drainage and oxygen circulation are much more restricted, anareobic conditions are much more easily encountered. You can get away with spreading a ton of all types of organic material on the surface of the soil where the temps, oxygen and moisture support the necessary fungi and bacteria to digest it. As you know, the problems occur when you lose the oxygen. I'd expect your soil to be wonderful with the variety of "good stuff" you're planning on feeding it. Good luck! Kim

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 2:28AM
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