Morning Shade, afternoon sun?

gardenbug(8b)March 24, 2011

Is morning shade and afternoon sun considered to be part shade/part sun or part sun/part shade? or either? Sometimes I get confused as to what I have. My garden is on the northwest corner of my house and it has morning shade and afternoon sun. When I purchase plants, I have no idea what to buy?

I purchased a Pieris Japonica Valentine today and not quite sure if it will grow well in morning shade and afternoon sun. The tag says it will grow to 2m.

Thanks again for your help.

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

ok .... a sun lesson ...

SPEAKING GENERALLY .. so you can remember the theory.. and can research the science if you want ... or gal will come and enlighten you thoroughly .... and gal, i mean that as a compliment ....

FULL SUN.. anything over 8 hours ...

PART SUN.. anything less than 8 hours ...

with me so far ...

PART SHADE =' PART SUN .... still with me ...

the ONLY difference between morning sun.. and afternoon sun.. is the heat of the day ...

some plants need/want so much water .. that in late afternoon .. in full sun.. they wilt.. because they give off more water than they are holding or can process... so with those plants.. you would avoid afternoon sun .. because the plant and the soil will get too hot ...

so far so good???

so reducing all your facts and worries down to the simple..

how water/heat tolerant is pieris ... and after all that.. i dont know.. because i never grew it ... lol ..

all i do know.. is i have never seen one in full sun ... so if it were me .. based on simple logic ... i would plant it in afternoon shade ... any shade that keeps it out of the sun in the hottest part of the day .. say 2 to 4 pm .... to 6pm ... and.. as you move significantly south.. you would have to increase the shade for longer periods of the day ...

please tell me the light went on.. and its all so simple now.. lol ... and if not.. i tried ....

have a great day


ps: plants are like us.. in august.. i do all my heavy garden work.. in the morning.. and rest in the afternoon.. because i would lose all my water content.. and pass out [or stroke out]... or.. wilt .. if i worked to hard in afternoon sun ... being the delicate flower i am ... lol .. so .. for me.. part afternoon shade is important ... lol

    Bookmark   March 24, 2011 at 5:17PM
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If it is getting afternoon sun, I would consider that "full sun" as, in my area, that is the harshest condition possible.

I'm not sure that Pieris can handle afternoon sun in 8b. Where are you located?

    Bookmark   March 24, 2011 at 5:24PM
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Very good common sense Ken. I printed this out so I can refer to it. Thank you. Well, I would say it gets pretty hot there in the late afternoon. Hmmm, okay I should find another location or maybe it could be planted in front of the Katsura Maple that I intend to buy. (and please don't tell dh about the tree) lol
Yes, Gardengal has been totally 'awesome' guiding me along. I don't know what I would do without this forum...thank you Ken.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2011 at 5:32PM
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I am located in Fraser Valley, BC, Zone 8a

Thanks for the tip. I think I need to find another spot for it. I'd hate to 'fry' this pretty little shrub.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2011 at 5:35PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

If you have a cool yard with moist soil the exposure will be fine for pieris. Not the best place for them but you even see these planted in parking strips around here. Our region does not have the hot summers of the south and east, that even in the shade would kill some shrubs we can grow in sunny locations.

Some years ago a friend helped me move a pieris from the west side of our house to a south-facing slope between our drive and the neighbor's drive. It definitely appreciates the water I give it now and then during the summer, but the blazing spot has not prevented it from growing well above head height.

Starting with the many years in the first location this specimen has gotten hours of hot sun here since about 1965.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2011 at 2:15AM
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Yes, knowing you are in Oregon makes a huge difference - 8a in Oregon is not the same as 8a in the southeast when it comes to afternoons.

bboy has good regional advice for you then.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2011 at 7:13AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

who is in OR??

poster in british columbia canada???

esh in GA ...

the inclination of the sun ... the intensity of the light in GA.. may as well put esh on mars .. lol ...

once you get the sun thing in mind.. then you can start thinking regionally .... and those peeps south of the mason-dixon line .... KY/TN state line ... may as well be considered tropical .. compared to us in the the great white north...

so you MIGHT get away .. with a bit more afternoon sun .. than they can ....

then you throw in ... that the the wind currents of BC caused by the pacific ... you are actually a VERY BIZARRE zone 8 ...

zone being MINIMUM winter temp ONLY ... you stay warmer because of the ocean effect .... more than would be indicated for how north you are ... because you are technically north of my great white north MI.. but warmer in winter.. go figure on all that ...

so even though you are north of me.. you have warmer winters than me... whats that all about.. lol ..

i have 1500 hosta ... the light went on for me.. after getting a beautiful hosta book by a british author ... and she listed nearly every hosta as full sun .... and after changing my whole database ... i realized that her full sun .. was not my full sun ... and it had everything to do with latitude ... the ladder to the northpole ..

i am just below 45 degrees north.. or half way to the pole ... GBrit is near 60 degrees north ... and their version of full sun.. is much weaker than i am ... so they can grow.. what i call a shade plant.. in full sun ... GIVEN ENOUGH water and good soil ...

etc.. etc. blah.. blah .. blah ...

anyway.. i digress ..

check out the link, and have a good day


Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   March 25, 2011 at 8:57AM
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Sorry, I meant BC!! That was too early for me ...

    Bookmark   March 25, 2011 at 10:26AM
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North does not always translate to colder :-) The OP (and much of the PNW) is located above latitude 47, which is pretty darn far north -- more northerly than just about anywhere else in the US. But it is also a modified marine climate, so benefits from ocean currents and predominate winter wind patterns to keep winter temps moderate. And this works the same for summer as well - never gets very hot here in summer.

bboy and ken hit on it - the PNW summer sun is considerably less intense than the summer sun in more southerly areas. Plants that prefer part shade elsewhere can often be very successfully grown in full sun here. By and large, morning and sun and afternoon shade is the most desirable setting - protection from whatever heat might be generated by the afternoon - but provided soils are good and water provided as needed, that combo can be easily reversed. Pieris is often found in full sun locations here - sometimes doing very well, other times obviously stressed, although not necessarily from sun exposure alone.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2011 at 11:18AM
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At the nursery, None of the plant tags say, morning shade and afternoon sun. What should I be looking for on the tag? Full sun/part shade or full sun?

    Bookmark   March 25, 2011 at 1:11PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

As mentioned earlier the heat during the afternoon means that an unshaded west wall of a structure or other location that bakes on summer afternoons is best furnished with full sun adapted or tolerant plants. The afternoon sun exposure there is not compensated for by the morning shade. Shade-loving plants go on the north and east sides of buildings, sun-loving on the south and west sides.

An unobstructed full south exposure is a good place for kinds not getting enough heat in the open in this area.

With heath family plants (including azaleas, pieris, rhododendendrons, salal...) the most critical general condition of the planting site is the nature of the soil. These must all have cool root runs. If a specimen is shading its own root zone adequately or other shrubs, rocks, or other sources of protection from cooking of the roots by hot sunshine is present many kinds of these will tolerate full exposure in this region.

If the rooting area gets too hot this are liable to fail even when growing in full shade. This is why most kinds of rhododendrons cannot be grown in the deep South.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2011 at 1:35PM
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tada...lightbulb just came on.
I get it now.
Shade loving plants on the east and north.
Sun loving on the south and west.
Just knowing this much really helps.

I am going to get a Katsura maple to plant on the northwest corner of the house to provide some dappled shade to the perennial garden where I have my pieris, rhodies and heather. If I put anything else in there, I'll make sure it likes the sun. I'll continue to keep the plants roots cool by mulching.

This weekend, I am going to dig a garden bed in the front of the house for shade plants. That part shouldn't be too difficult for me to figure out. lol

Thanks bboy!

    Bookmark   March 25, 2011 at 2:07PM
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Bumping this post and going back to the main point of the OP, because I have a similar situation. The north side of the house (which is pretty narrow) is in the shade all morning until about 1 pm, then it's full blazing sun the rest of the day. I know with a lot of the stuff I like to plant, mostly annuals and edibles, this would cause them to stretch out in the mornings and become leggy, then get blistered in the afternoon in full sun. Does anyone know of plants that can handle that weird combo of shade & sun? I'm willing to do annuals or perennials or whatever at this point, just something that will look halfway decent.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2014 at 1:03PM
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