Black Dragon rose?

donnaz5(Z5 NY)February 9, 2011

Someone is selling seeds for this rose on e-by...I know they won't come true from seed...but does anyone know what the real name of this rose is and where I can get it? Thanks, Donna

Here is a link that might be useful: black dragon rose

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diane_nj 6b/7a

That looks a lot like Hocus Pocus, which is an unstable striped sport of Black Beauty. A few vendors used to carry it, but I don't know of anyone who does now.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hocus Pocus

    Bookmark   February 9, 2011 at 8:04PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Seeds won't give you the rose pictured.

Each seed will represent an entirely new cultivar -- which could be nice, could be AWFUL, and are unlikely to resemble the rose shown.

Jeri

    Bookmark   February 9, 2011 at 8:41PM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

It could also be a photo of the miniflora Memphis Music, which is sold by Two Sisters Roses.

Here is a link that might be useful: Memphis Music

    Bookmark   February 9, 2011 at 8:48PM
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karl_bapst_rosenut(5a, NW Indiana)

As Jeri said plus there is no such rose as Black Dragon.
Only species roses bloom true from seed and there are not that many species roses including no black dragon. This person is collecting seeds from various roses and selling them as that variety. If he really knew what he was talking about, he'd know that most roses don't grow true from seed.
Even though more expensive, you'd be better off ordering Memphis Music from Two sisters. At least you'd get something that looks somewhat like the rose pictured on that site. With the seeds, your chance would be about the same as my DNA matching your.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2011 at 12:12AM
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bethnorcal9

That person has a whole bunch of rose seeds shown on there, with all sorts of made up names. I wonder how many people are going to buy those seeds only to find out the roses aren't going to look anything like the pics. IF they can even get the seeds to grow.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2011 at 1:14AM
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donnaz5(Z5 NY)

Thank you all for the replies....I do know that the rose will not come true from seed,(as stated in my first posting)...I was looking for the real name of it...and thank you all...such a shame people are doing that on e-bay....I did see the seller's other rose seeds...I wonder if they truly do not know or are scammers...Donna

    Bookmark   February 10, 2011 at 4:50AM
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nanadollZ7 SWIdaho(Zone 7 Boise SW Idaho)

I checked eBay and was appalled to see that the seed seller was from Boise, Idaho, where I live. She/he is going to give us a bad name! I also noted that many of the roses were still under patent, so is selling their seeds even legal? The photos accompanying each auction had a canned look, like they were taken off some website or from a catalog. So does this seller even have all these roses, or is he getting the seeds from the same rose? Who knows? Diane

    Bookmark   February 11, 2011 at 3:20AM
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mgleason56(Michigan 5b)

Yes it is legal to sell seeds from a patented rose, since the seeds wll not be the rose patented. Of course they know they are scamming people. Who else would post this photo?

Here is a link that might be useful: Blue Tides Rose Bush

    Bookmark   February 11, 2011 at 9:22AM
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trospero(8)

I suspect its only a matter of time before the complaints about misrepresentation of the product pile up and e*ay pulls the seller's items. (hint hint) Clearly this is false advertising.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2011 at 3:16PM
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donnaz5(Z5 NY)

I complained to e-bay before I even posted here about that rose, and nothing has been done yet...I don't think there are any rosarians on e-bay staff , or that seller would be gone by now...Donna

    Bookmark   February 11, 2011 at 10:46PM
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jon_z6b

Ebay can still be a good place to obtain seed- especially species. You sort of have to pick and choose the sellers though.

    Bookmark   February 12, 2011 at 9:41AM
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mgleason56(Michigan 5b)

I sent a nasty email to the seller and this is what I got back;

"I buy all my seeds from http://hardyplants.moonfruit.com. So i am pretty sure since they are through a wholesaler they are not faticious."

    Bookmark   February 14, 2011 at 9:17AM
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bethnorcal9

OMG! Did you take a look at that website Mike? They have all sorts of either dyed or Photoshopped blue roses, all sorts of made-up names and what appear to be a few camellias being passed off as roses! I notice there's no actual mailing address listed. They probably aren't even rose seeds that they are selling. What a rip-off!

    Bookmark   February 14, 2011 at 11:37AM
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mgleason56(Michigan 5b)

Yep, I saw it too, which is why I posted this.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2011 at 4:28PM
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donnaz5(Z5 NY)

Chances are good that this same seller runs both the moonfruit store and the e-bay store. There is no mailing address anywhere on that web site, just the toll free number.
It is such a shame in this day and age when we are losing our really good vendors in alarming numbers that the unscrupulous are popping up. Donna

    Bookmark   February 14, 2011 at 7:26PM
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hndmrshall

well count me as a dummy I baught some of these seeds and have been carefully carring for what i thaught was rose seedlings!. I will hold out untill they get there true leaves but don't have much confidence in them. Will let everyone know what I get....crossing fingers.

Donna
in Texas

    Bookmark   April 20, 2011 at 12:01AM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

Donna, they might really be rose seeds, and you have rose seedlings. They just won't look like the photo (at least, there is a very slim chance of it). Let us know what you get (might take a year or two to bloom).

    Bookmark   April 20, 2011 at 11:48AM
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hndmrshall

I don't care if they are other colors as long as they are rose seeds. Part of the excitment of raising the baby roses is the anticipation of the first bloom and what I will get. when the first blooms come it will be like christmass!

    Bookmark   April 20, 2011 at 2:42PM
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CloverandCompany

Do not buy these so called seeds, they are not roses. I purchased these as I was curious about them and would have loved if they were really what was pictured but unfortunatly Idk what these are. They look similar to rose seeds, they germinate like a rose would but when they are planted they do not come up anything like a rose, mine haven't bloomed yet but the foliage resembles shade primrose (not Missouri primrose. Save your money guys and buy from a well reputable seller not the EBAY sellers. Unfortunatly I gave positive feedback on these rose seeds before I planted them and saw the actual results

    Bookmark   May 28, 2011 at 1:16PM
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donnaz5(Z5 NY)

Clover...I agree with you not to buy from this seller, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water...there are several people that sell roses on E-bay that ARE reputable sellers...in fact, they own and operate good nurseries.Donna

    Bookmark   May 28, 2011 at 2:06PM
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pittlw_tds_net

I purchased these also, learning about roses not being true to the parent if you do get them to grow. I did all the prep for roses, but as they came up, I soon realized they were not roses. They have hairy leaves, but I couldn't identify it. They just started flowering today. Blue star shaped flowers. The verdict is the seed I bought was borage.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2011 at 9:20PM
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AZRaven(9A)

This person is back up on E-bay selling seeds for this rose, although the website of the wholesale distributor (hardyplants.moonfruit.com) is gone. If there is anyone who bought this seed (and it didn't grow to be this flower) please report this seller to e-bay for fraud! If it wasn't for this website, I would have bought this! I've been looking for the rose Abracadabra forever, and this rose is the closest I had found.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 7:43AM
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kstrong(10 So Cal)

AZ Raven -- Abracadabra is the same cultivar as Memphis Music and is easily available from Two Sisters Roses or Wells Midsouth Roses, both online vendors.

I know the breeder claims they are different roses, but I have grown them side by side for half a dozen years now, and THEY ARE THE SAME ROSE. (Someone got his seedlings mixed up with his cuttings, oh well).

The other possibility it that we will be selling the reverse sport of that rose, which is registered as Simsalabim, at the CCRS rare rose auction on November 13, which will also have an online option.

Here is a link that might be useful: MidSouth Roses

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 10:40AM
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peachymomo(Ca 8)

Oooh, I love the name 'Simsalabim' how cool! Can I change it slightly and use it in a story? Is there a policy on using rose names in written fiction? I think 'Lutea Banks' would make an awesome name...

Sorry to post off topic but I couldn't resist.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 11:38AM
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roseseek

I Googled "Simsalabim" the other day and found a post which stated it was German for "Abracadabra", which makes sense.

Kordes introduced Frisco, a yellow florist HT in the late 80s. It sported to Black Beauty in 1999, kind of a dramatic mutation from bright yellow to deep red! Black Beauty sported to Hocus Pocus in 2000 which then mutated to Abracadabra in 2002. Take a look at Simsalabim. Isn't it precisely what you would expect as a partial reversion of either Abracadabra or Hocus Pocus back to Frisco? Based upon flower appearance and the fact Kordes introduced them all, combined with the German translation of Simsalabim, I strongly suspect it is a partial reversion toward Frisco. Being such unstable sports of the same rose, be aware it is totally possible for any of them to mutate or revert easily, without warning, as shown on several photos on HMF, so no matter which you buy, there is no guaranty what it's going to flower in your garden. Kim

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 1:19PM
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mgleason56(Michigan 5b)

Kathy - I cannot believe that you are making that strong of a statement on these being the same rose. Have you ever talked Verlie to get his take? I know we have discussed this over and over, but your above comment seems to be a statement of fact, and I am still waiting to hear from Mr. Wells on this.

Hugs & Kisses...

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 3:40PM
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seil zone 6b MI

No matter the mutation they're all lovely and would be welcome in my garden.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 4:22PM
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kstrong(10 So Cal)

As far as I'm concerned, it is a fact, Mike. And I don't care what V's opinion may be. The registration folks once before had to take a claimed registration away from him for the same reason on another rose.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 7:01PM
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nastarana(5a)

The original of the series, Frisco, looks rather nice on HMF. I am surprised that is no longer being sold in North America.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 11:32PM
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roseseek

Frisco's form and color are beautiful, and that's enough to keep it in your garden, but number of flowers per measure of space under glass; number of months the plant is willing to flower without artificial heat or light; disease resistance, even under glass, is a prime consideration due to cost of materials, potential OSHA hazards, etc.; durability for handling/shipping and average life of flower can spell the demise of a "beautiful rose". The old Baccara was legendary for its form and color, so much so that even decades after its being discontinued as a florist variety, people still asked for it by name. It was so popular, Meilland reused the name several times. So, yes, it's pretty, but obviously not productive enough, at sufficiently efficient costs, to prevent it from being replaced by varieties which are sufficiently productive. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Baccara

    Bookmark   October 19, 2011 at 3:22AM
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