Talk me out of shoveling 'Ascot'

hoovb zone 9 sunset 23March 29, 2014

I just planted two of these in November--or maybe it was October. I've got nearly 5' of growth on one and more than 5' of growth on the other, but not one single flower bud, not a one. Zero. If I wanted a big green plant, I could have planted boxwood. Grrrrr!

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andreark

DON'T YOU DARE!!! It will flower in it's own good time. Many folks suggested that I SP First Prize. And in less than 5 months, it is just wonderful. I pruned it to about 8 inches, (not something we do in Calif.) and now it's about 3 feet tall, still on the small side, with half a dozen baseball size (Hyperbole Annie, me) buds. Not exactly but they are by far the largest buds I have. As Kim told me "be patient".

I'm so happy I listened to him. They will bud in 2 months! (I looked into my crystal ball).

Happy Spring,

andreark

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 11:59AM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

Hoov, I hope you leave it at least a few more months. I think there are several people that have fallen in love with Nanadoll's photos of 'Ascot'. Seeing how a well cared for plant does in SoCal is really valuable information. Maybe if it continues on being a Jolly Green Giant, there is a place in the back of a bed you want a cover plant?

But I know the feeling, my Lady of Megginch threw one massive cane last season and just threw another. I am following the advice of cutting them lower and waiting on good growth, but if I don't get it, that is one Austin that is going to be dug out and moved to a place a 6 foot plant is welcome....it is not right at the front of the bed covering up roses behind her.......

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 12:30PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Remember, first year sleep, second year creep, third year leap!

Since it is not blooming now, why not chop it back by a third or half to control for height--while you are waiting for it to get around to blooming.

Kate

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 1:27PM
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jacqueline9CA

If you have 5 ft long canes you might think about pegging them - that should make them bloom all along their length.

Jackie

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 2:12PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

Hmm.

On the one hand, who needs a baby when there's a house full of teenagers?

Piece of Eden

On the other hand it was only back around November that somebody said....

Here is a link that might be useful: When do you give up on a rose?

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 2:49PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

hoovb, I can't help you with Ascot, although I have a feeling it will turn around. I just have to say one more time that seeing pictures of your incredible garden is both awesomely uplifting and so very daunting. It has to be one of the most beautiful private rose gardens ever, and a visual feast that I never tire of. The daunting part of course is that, no matter what I do, I can never hope to have anything remotely that beautiful. The architecture of course is incomparable, with plenty of room for large climbers, and a wonderful visual background. However, it's your vision and how you put together plant combinations and how well you grow everything to its full potential that is just not within my grasp. That being so, please post lots of pictures of your spring flush for us to enjoy. Everyone would be thrilled, I know.

Ingrid

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 4:14PM
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seil zone 6b MI

I just don't think that 6 months is enough time to make any kind of informed judgment on a rose. It needs at least a full year and I usually let a rose go for 3 years so it can get some maturity before I decide whether or not it's going to be any good.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 4:51PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

Thank you all for the different points of view. Yes I was one of those that found Nanadoll's 'Ascot' very impressive. She's in a vastly different climate more akin to Germany the source of 'Ascot'. I thought that didn't matter but perhaps it does.

I've had weak roses that I babied along--that finally became something good--'Firefighter' was a complete dud the first two years--'Bolero' was even slower, but both of them at least tried to bloom.

In this garden, stingy-with-vigor seems to be the one characteristic that doesn't improve.

I suffered along with 'Tea Clipper' and 'Lions Fairy Tale' for six or was it seven years? Towering plants, clean foliage, handful of flowers in all that time. I self-pegged 'Tea Clipper' then I pegged 'Tea Clipper'. Hard prune. Light prune. No prune. No better! Perhaps because I was so patient with those to no gain I'm not so patient any more.

I feel I wasted a lot of precious water. It's the question I now ask, "Is it worth the precious water it's getting?" Likely I'll eventually shovel one and give the other more time. Maybe I'll see if Jerome wants it. But for now, I'll give them a reprieve.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 6:45PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

I'll be around if you need me...

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 7:43PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

Ha ha, good one, Jim!

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 8:03PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

I wonder if giving them less water would encourage less green and more bloom?

Your shovel looks all too friendly

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 8:26PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

First, I agree that it may want more winter.

That said, if it were me, since you are in (at least) the vicinity of rose paradise and since most roses that DON'T do well in the rest of the country can do just fine in paradise, I would:

Give minimal care.
Prune with traditional HT SEVERE pruning.
Give minimal water.
Give NO fertilizer of any sort.

Why? In my limited experience with them, these new roses from France and Germany are SO healthy that they are unlike ANY rose I have previously experienced.

I'd starve the fever (in your area).

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 8:44PM
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Zyperiris(Seattle)

I think it's way too soon to even consider getting rid of a rose. It's a baby. My Lady Emma just got good and she was 5 years old last year. My own root octavia hill is turning into a monster and she is 4.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2014 at 11:15PM
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alameda/zone 8

I had the same problem with Graham Thomas. Very healthy plant - no bloom. I was at Chamblees - they suggested trying Carl Pool's BR-61 fertilizer on it. Lo and behold! It bloomed!! I haven't done anything but prune it this year and its way too soon for blooms, but when I get time, I may douse it with Carl's and see what this year will bring. You might try this stuff.......if you cant find it in your area, Chamblee's sells it. In this same vein.......I bought a one gallon Ballerina from Chamblee's sale area a couple of years ago, planted it. It got good water and sunlight - just never grew - had green leaves and all, but just acted like it was stunted. A few measley blooms....I just happened to look at it today - we have had great rains this spring - and was shocked. It was putting up new branching with buds, just really going at it. So maybe it has been putting on a bunch of roots down below and not much top growth, and now started to get with it. Maybe your Ascot is doing the same thing - I have learned the lesson of patience with roses. If it isn't dead or dying - there is always hope!
Judith

    Bookmark   March 30, 2014 at 12:21AM
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poorbutroserich(Nashville 7a)

My Ascot has thrown 2 8ft canes and thats it....I've bent it horizontally a bit. Bareroot last spring.
Susan

    Bookmark   March 30, 2014 at 12:01PM
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jasminerose4u, California(9b)

My Night Owl rose doesn't have any blooms either, but I'm hoping it is just too early. I planted it in October as well.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2014 at 9:13PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

Susan did you get any flowers?

I have not given them any fertilizer. They got planted in unamended soil and have grown quickly. Plants that can grow 5' in winter don't need fertilizer. They haven't gotten that much water--we're in a drought.

I will check into Carl Pool's BR-61.

Thanks to all for the helpful comments!
It's not that I'm impatient, it just seems like a rose that grows rapidly but doesn't bloom at all is a sign of stinginess.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2014 at 12:16AM
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kittymoonbeam

Sometimes multiflora rootstock has caused fast growth for me. Getting them to own root can make them slow down sometimes. If you want to remove them during this week of cool rainy weather you can try to get them to behave in a pot while you wait for the own roots to grow. My potted one is not growing that fast but I do not have any buds yet. I will plant them as a group like DA does if they are destined for the green waste, but I see your point about shy blooming giants. Mine is going where I used to have an apple tree so size is not a concern for me.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2014 at 10:53AM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

I've changed my mind.

I think I'd give them away - NOT because the rose has or has not had adequate time to prove itself, or may or may not be stingy, or like your climate, but because of your subsequent question: "Is it worth the precious water it's getting?"

After getting over my initial instinctive defense of the rose, I've reconsidered. With the price you are already paying for water, I'm of the opinion that there isn't and will not be any new rose worth the precious water it requires in your area.

Good luck with your decision.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2014 at 2:58PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

That shovel looks a bit to happy Hoovb...lol

    Bookmark   March 31, 2014 at 5:52PM
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poorbutroserich(Nashville 7a)

hoov I did not get ANY flowers last year....hoping for some this year. If not I will cut it back.
Same thing happened to me with Caramella on mf. Grows like crazy (i posted pictures of 3" diameter canes on 6 month old rose). I whacked it way back this year, so we shall see.
kitty, how far do you plant the graft to get them to "own root"?
Thanks!
Susan

    Bookmark   March 31, 2014 at 8:02PM
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kittymoonbeam

plant in a 15 gal pot 3/4 the way down and then put a sandy soil on the graft and at least 2-3 inches above. Roses seem to root easier in sandy soil for me. I add a little more soil later on as well to get more rooting.

    Bookmark   March 31, 2014 at 8:47PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

I did not get ANY flowers last year.....

    Bookmark   April 1, 2014 at 10:50AM
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farmerduck

Hoovb -- hope your Ascot shapes up under the menance of that shovel.

I succumbed to Nanadoll's enabling last year and got an Ascot from Palatine. Had two blooms, and five six feet-tall canes shooting straigt up, which were entirely naked midway through summer. I don't mind the lack of blooms (as it was its first season), but I do mind the lack of blackspot resistance. I will give it another year before talking shovel to mine. If it dares to go topless again this year, she will be outa of here.....

    Bookmark   April 1, 2014 at 3:29PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

If anyone local in Southern California wants a potted 'Ascot', email me.

    Bookmark   April 1, 2014 at 3:41PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

On the OTHER hand, how quickly we forget.

Thursday, May 27, 2010:

"I planted it as a bare root from Pickering in January of 2008. Until this year, almost no flowers, just green growth and a lot of it."

I believe 'Laguna' is a German rose bred for a different climate and all that.

Can't be though. No, it couldn't be.

But, Hoo ever snatched up that potted 'Ascot' might be getting real lucky!!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Rosa 'Laguna' (Kordes, 2004) : Piece of Eden

This post was edited by sandandsun on Wed, Apr 30, 14 at 21:54

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 8:58PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

Then too, 'Laguna' is ADR.

And I believe that 'Ascot' is not.

That may matter very little for Ascot's performance in your low disease pressure area, but I'd never plant 'Ascot' here because I have serious disease pressure.

Here is a link that might be useful: ADR Rose Trials Award

This post was edited by sandandsun on Wed, Apr 30, 14 at 22:00

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 9:52PM
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farmerduck

I was tempted by Nanadoll's pictures and grew Ascot last year. I got two blooms. The blooms are beautiful, but the plant is not: it threw about half a dozen 6 to 8 feet long canes, and became quite unsightly barenaked due to blackspot. I have moved it back to my bed last January in the snow (as I did not care if it survives). Not only did it survive, but it suffered very little winter kill! I am hoping that it does better this year. Growing roses is a such a location specific thing: what is spetacular in one climate might be a complete dud in another. I am hoping that Ascot will surprise me this year.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2014 at 12:51PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

I hope it does great for you farmerduck. You have gotten two flowers more than I have.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2014 at 1:45PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

'Laguna' doesn't repeat bloom that well even now, but it has created a large green screen for the houses on that side, so for that reason, I like it!

    Bookmark   May 1, 2014 at 1:47PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

S&S, you are a person of wit and education, and so may appreciate this quote attributed to John Maynard Keynes:

"When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?"

    Bookmark   May 1, 2014 at 4:29PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

I appreciate the quote; I too do the very same.

And I know that you understand (or at least should understand) that I was being humorous - not critical.

About repeat bloom, I'd just remark: what was the big hurry to get to the Huntington? I assumed it was so as not to miss the spring flush. There are rarely rebloom flushes like the spring flush with roses; otherwise, there'd be postings of exquisite panoramic shots monthly, wouldn't there?

Did I mention that your photos are still the best rose porn I know? I think I've asked before: how long do your roses spend in the makeup trailer before the photo session? how long does it take you to airbrush the imperfections away?

Beautiful - absolutely beautiful.

Here is a link that might be useful: Please Get To The Huntington Quickly!!

This post was edited by sandandsun on Thu, May 1, 14 at 22:34

    Bookmark   May 1, 2014 at 10:18PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

They are in makeup most of the day, the vain things.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2014 at 11:37PM
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zack_lau

If I lived in a warmer climate, I'd research the parentage of the roses I intend to buy, to avoid roses that need a winter chill for that beautiful Spring flush. But, we get plenty of cold--everything seems to bloom just fine here.

Well, except for Camellias and Hydrangea, which get too much cold...

    Bookmark   May 2, 2014 at 8:55AM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

hb,

All day in makeup - that makes a good analogy for the waiting while they get used to living chez moi, establish, and EVENTUALLY decide to perform.

They do try my patience sometimes - the vain things.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2014 at 1:59AM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

A bud. A single flower bud.

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 3:13PM
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poorbutroserich(Nashville 7a)

Ummmmm. Hoov....did you put the shovel down? I don't want to get smacked. My Ascot has about 50 buds on it. I keep taking pictures and then I decide not to show them because I don't want to be a jerk--na na my Ascot has buds...KWIM?
BUT I will post a photo of it in bloom. The crazy thing is that it has grown so big it's shading my Crepuscule. It will have to be moved during dormancy.....
Susan

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 4:53PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

Please show it when it blooms, okay? I won't be mad, since I have a bud! A bud! :)

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 6:38PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Where's there's one, more are sure to follow. My Pretty Jessica started buds long after every other rose had buds AND flowers. That may just be its habit or be a function of its relative youth (three years). Last year it had almost no flowers at all. It could be Ascot is revving up now and next year will be a wonder to behold. At least now there's hope, and in gardening that's everything.

Ingrid

    Bookmark   May 5, 2014 at 6:55PM
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