"black" roses?

JulietlovespurpleMarch 16, 2013

Hi everyone!

I've been lurking for some time, but this is my first post, so please forgive any unwitting breach of etiquette I may commit.

I've been looking to expand my rose garden this year, (and have already ordered a DA William Shakespeare rosebush, about which I am so totally excited, but that's beside the point).

I kind of want to take a risk on one of the "black" roses, er, basically because they look so very cool. I am given to understand that they're not super-hardy cultivars, though? I *did* manage to keep an Angel Face and a Double Delight alive last year, and they're total blackspot magnets, especially here in Massachusetts, so I *am* at least a patient person. :P

I guess the two cultivars I'm really looking at are Black Magic and Black Baccara, and I'd like to know the relative merits (if any) of either when grown in the Northeast, or any other roses in this color family that you would recommend instead. I live in the suburbs of Boston, which places me at a zone 6 or a 7a, depending on the effects of global warming in a given year.

Any help you could provide (or any pics you could provide) would be amazing!

Thank you so much!!

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Black Baccara is the blacker of the two. It is also a florist rose on a terrible garden plant. It is highly addicted to mildew, rust and black spot. Grown in a green house where all conditions are appropriately controlled and sprayed against all fungal attacks, it CAN produce nearly black, velvet flowers. In the average garden, it seldom does. If you want a troublesome garden plant which can, very occasionally remind you why you spent money for it, go for it. Otherwise, I recommend you try anything else black.

If you can find the older Taboo, it can give you nearly black buds in cool weather on a much stronger, healthier plant. The old Kardinal (1933, Krause HT) is even blacker than Taboo in cool weather. The older one is even moderately fragrant.

There have been a number of "black" roses including Ink Spots, Black Garnet, Nigrette and others. Most will appear the blackest in cool weather and most require protection against mildew. Kim

    Bookmark   March 16, 2013 at 8:25PM
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lola-lemon(5b East WA)

It's not a black rose- but my darkest red is Oklahoma. She's in afternoon shade here. She is intensely fragrant. Her blooms ,about a third of the time, will be chalice shaped (see photo), or even nod~ which i like, but others might find fault. Other times they are enormous showgirl perfection. If you are humid there- you might see more chalice shapes. You can find her wherever you got your double delight probably. (her sibling rose, is Papa Meilland, you might consider. I think they stay darker than Mr. Lincoln., their "brother".

Ebb Tide is the darkest rose I've seen, but never grown. It looked like a halloween display when I saw it burning in the sun- it was such a dark ashen purple and some spent blooms were violetty gray.

One thing about the black roses (besides being a challenge health wise, as Kim has explained) is that some tend to have their perfect red velvet color only under good conditions and many of them fade to scarlet, or to violet, or crisp on the edges in high sun situations. So, they may look their best with some afternoon shade if you are in a hot zone.

Enjoy your WM Shakespeare. I have him too. He's lovely- but more of a scarlet color.

'OKLAHOMA' rose bloom

This post was edited by lola-lemon on Fri, Mar 22, 13 at 12:25

    Bookmark   March 16, 2013 at 11:55PM
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bart_2010(8/9 Italy)

Anyone have any opinions on the two "black" climbers, Guinee and Senegal? bart

    Bookmark   March 17, 2013 at 5:03AM
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Here is a photo of Black Garnet. I found her at a local nursery late last fall with a few blooms, and then she went into recovery mode once newly planted. I captured the color but not the beauty of this rose. I'm super excited about her for this year. No fragrance.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2013 at 9:17AM
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Campanula UK Z8

One of my customers had a Guinee rose - it was OK but required an awful lot of faffing and spraying, as well as having a prime spot against a warm wall. Got rust. later in the season, too. I honestly think cl.Etoile de Hollande is a better rose. Also, the blooms where somewhere up in the stratosphere and armoured gauntlets were required before any attempt at pruning. Quite stiff (and thorny)growth and definitely fragrant. However, I really think this is a classic warm climate rose - grown on a west facing wall, in devon or somewhere more amenable than east anglia, it probably looks pretty stunning (when I could see the blooms through my binoculars) - never looked good under a cool english sky.... I guess you can tell I am not much of a fan, Bart, as black(ish) flowers have never really grabbed my attention since they always disappear in my untidy (but lush) garden. The only black flower I have is the little viola, Bowles Black....and only then because it is growing between white nemesia and a tall white armeria.
If you can find the right spot for growing (It is not keen on bending or training over arches but will grow on a wall) and get another rose to cover it's bare legs), it should do alright for you in Italy.
Oh yeah, it isn't 'black', either - maroon maybe.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2013 at 9:22AM
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Black Magic given afternoon shade is really dark velvety deep red.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2013 at 12:15PM
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I live on Cape Cod & would highly recommend Black Magic, although it is not really black as others have said. Black Baccara will actually appear black in the bud stage, but it is not as good a rose to grow as Black Magic. Black Baccara's blooms are smaller & it tends to be stingy with its blooms.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2013 at 2:15PM
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I am growing Black Magic. Mine grows in mostly shade, struggles to find the sun. Can't find any close ups of her flowers, but here she is last year:

    Bookmark   March 17, 2013 at 2:24PM
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If I could give her more sun I think she would be awesome. I do appreciate what she gives me given my less than sunny garden. Her flowers are big and full, and compared to a Julia Child that is in the sun only four feet away, the leaves are as clean as can be. Can't say that for Julia, who is a mess of spots.

Ignore the palm and Gardenia in the background. They are resting in the shade, trying not to die.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2013 at 2:29PM
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I'm on my 3rd Black Baccara rose. I've killed two so far. Wouldn't take off in my garden no matter what I did. I'm stubborn, so I'm giving it one more shot. My black magic is very healthy and has done well, but to me it is more of a deep red color.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2013 at 8:43PM
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Star Roses thanks you! Three sales for the price of one! It isn't YOU, it IS the rose. Kim

    Bookmark   March 17, 2013 at 11:38PM
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    Bookmark   March 20, 2013 at 8:56PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

Just took a photo yesterday. Mine's okay, not great, not horrible. It may not always succeed in blooming but it tries.
'Black Bacarra'

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 1:03AM
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OK, so I've put in an order for an Ebb Tide because I was looking at that anyway, and can't resist anything purple. :P Thank you so much for the push!! I saw one on sale online for $10.00, so that sounds pretty decent.

I'm still trying to figure out the best method for procuring a Black Magic or a Black Garnet or a Taboo (though that one picture of the Black Baccara is incredible, I have enough fussy roses already). Unfortunately my only options appear to be from Growquest and the consensus is that they are not the best ever, right? Does anybody have any advice for me? Sorry to keep being a pain, and THANK YOU for the sensational pictures!

This post was edited by Julietlovespurple on Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 13:28

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 11:50AM
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nanadollZ7 SWIdaho(Zone 7 Boise SW Idaho)

Bart, I believe a Forum member, thedarklady, has Senegal, and posted a photo of it under the "S" roses of the rose alphabet on the Roses Forum Gallery. She might be able to share her opinion of this rose. Diane

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 3:45PM
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nanadollZ7 SWIdaho(Zone 7 Boise SW Idaho)

Juliet, have you thought about Ebb Tide's offspring, Twilight Zone, or the Austin rose, The Prince, which is a blackish red? Another one I like is Ascot, more of a wine red. Here is Twilight Zone. Diane

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 3:53PM
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nanadollZ7 SWIdaho(Zone 7 Boise SW Idaho)

Here is The Prince. Diane

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 3:54PM
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nanadollZ7 SWIdaho(Zone 7 Boise SW Idaho)

And, finally, here is Ascot. Diane

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 3:57PM
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Juliet, if you live outside Boston, I would suggest you go to Russell's in Wayland. They have a fabulous selection of roses. Roseland in Acushnet is also a good source for healthy, beautiful roses.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 3:57PM
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What is my saying about Black Rose. It,s nice . Three years ago i beginning my garden. There are many kind of roses in my garden. But black Roses is most nice those Roses. Black Roses is pretty for me. when sun isolated in a roses it see very excellent.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 4:21PM
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kentucky_rose zone 6

K&M may have Black Magic and Black Baccara on fort. rootstock..

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 6:47PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

No, no no on growquest. Better to just flush the money down the toilet.

That Ascot looks excellent. Want!

I'm not sure fortuniana rootstock is a good choice for MA.

Here is a link that might be useful: one growquest story

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 7:17PM
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OMG just drooling over those Austins, Diane! I have such a soft spot for his roses anyway! I have half a mind to just add a Prince to my order before William Shakespeare gets here.

Thank you so much for the local recommendations, dollsandroses - if Growquest sucks that much I'd just as soon have a look at roses in person, and it REALLY helps to know that a local shop is better than the others.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 9:32PM
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I saw Twilight Zone at a nursery last year in bloom, and it was beautiful. I had not really considered it before that, but it was hard not to choose her that day. I let my partner choose, and he went a different direction, but I was a little sad he didn't pick Twilight Zone.

Nanadoll, your picture makes me hope they have it this year, too. Boy, I'd love to plant that next to a strong, buttery yellow. Yum!

Maybe this year.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2013 at 9:47PM
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rosetom(7 Atl)

Inkspot does fairly well in my garden as a "black" rose. I think it's eligible to be included on the list of others mentioned such as Black Baccarra.

No offense to those who've mentioned them, but there's still a big difference between roses marketed as "black" versus dark reds such as Oklahoma, Taboo, Kardinal, etc. Heck, Mister Lincoln is as dark as my Oklahoma sometimes while still in bud. Nevertheless, Inkspot is several shades darker and stays that way in full sun. While in near bud, there's no comparison.

My only complaint is that while the bush is very vigorous and healthy, it's very lean and tall. Inkspot flowers are borne exclusively in singles, on top of thick, 4-5 foot long canes. This can look a bit odd when the flower is only 3-4" dia. at most.

If you want something definitely blacker than the "blackest" reds, it might be a good choice. I've had no issue with the bush and except for the lean form (think a taller and slenderer ML), it doesn't lack in vigor at all.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 9:24AM
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So I ended up canceling my order for the Ebb Tide a couple of months ago, because they kept sticking it on backorder, and I was leaving town for a few weeks in May and didn't want to miss it. The same day, I stopped by a local garden shop and happened upon a super-healthy-looking Twilight Zone.

The thing has dwarfed all the other tea roses in my garden in the past month and a half, and has about two dozen buds on it, which appear to be a day or two away from blooming. The sepals have already fallen away from two or three of them, and the buds are the most amazing reddish plum. I cannot WAIT to see what this guy does over this season - and I have NEVER seen such a healthy monster of a purple rose!

Thank you so much for all of your help!

(oh yeah, and speaking of new cultivars, I impulse-bought Love Song last weekend, too - we'll see how it fares!)

    Bookmark   June 8, 2013 at 9:28AM
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