Avid Miticide

joannembJuly 15, 2010

My boxwoods are showing signs of spidermite damage, and for the past month I've been trying controlling them by spraying them down and neem oil. I finally decided to go the chemical route, and bought some Avid on ebay. The directions are kind of scary though.... talks about eye protection, gloves, long sleeves, dispose of clothing??? I'm just going to dilute the solution per instructions, put it into a regular spray bottle and spray each shrub (getting the undersides of leaves as much as possible.) I wasn't going to power spray it into the air.... Do I really need to take all of these precausions? Has anyone used it?

Makes me want to ditch the chemicals and try insecticidal soap. But truly, they are pretty heavily infested, so I feel like at this point I need to take more drastic measures....

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

what kind of spray bottle????

i hope you mean a pump tank with a long hose and wand????

if so.. i hope you invest 10 bucks in a one gal ... and play with it with clean water.. until you know how to use it .... pressure is not the issue with a tank .. its all about water drop formation and how to apply it ... there should be a nozzle adjustment .. and the pressure itself [or lack thereof] ... and hot driveway.. will show you how the water is coming out of the tank ....

if you treat the formula like french perfume.. it will drift EVERYWHERE .... including your hands.. hair.. face.. clothes.. etc ....

if you learn how to use your tank ... and learn how to make droplets that fall to the ground .... then all that drift can be MINIMIZED .... though not eliminated .... so you still have to be careful ...

then after learning how to apply water.. you have to learn how to control the wind .... which usually means the wind is always on your neck.. so any drift.. blows away from you ..

i am glad you read the instructions .... and now you know the risks.. and how to use the tank.. and how to read the wind .... and twice as much as rec'd is not twice as good ... and in fact.. half dose usually works just as well ... go figure on that ...

you have to make the decision .... i can not tell you what to do ...

i know rhizo will troll thru here.. and listen to what she has to say .... as i am not looking up your specific chem ...

at a min.. i would use measuring things for chems only [not the kitchen stuff] .... i would get chem impervious gloves from the hardware [right next to the kitchen gloves] ... and i would get a paper mask ... all clothes would go into a hot washer when done .... and it would be long pants.. and long sleeve shirt ...

i am of the feeling [with no professional experience] ... that if i do this once or twice a year.. being as careful as i can.. and smoking while i do it [that may be the key]... that my EXPOSURE is not 'significant' ....

if i were doing this 8 hours a day .... 40 hours per week ... for decades .. lets say as an orchard owner ... i would have the hazmat suit ....

all that said.. i would also research a systemic remedy like MAYBE bayer tree and shrub .... IMHO ... much safer to apply ... and only one application should do it .... but i dont know if it is rated for mites ...

anyway .... i can ONLY tell you how i feel about it .... others will vociferously disagree .... and only you can do the research and decide your comfort level.. as we said in the legal world.. if you are relying on free advice from strangers... dont be surprised at the result ...

perhaps the safest route.. short of getting rid of the plants.. would be some checkbook application of chemicals.. in other words.. hire a professional ... lol.. maybe you can trade him the goo.. as part of the barter price ... and then you will be done with it.. and the bugs ...

good luck

    Bookmark   July 16, 2010 at 10:10AM
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Just sitting here shaking head. Unless I am not up to date on it.......this product is meant for professional use. It's been so long since I saw the label, I just googled it. Do you know how to measure out one four hundredth of an ounce accurately? To make small enough quantities to be used in gallon sprayers, that's the volume of solution some of these chemicals require to be within the dosage on the label.

How many hundred boxwoods do you have? What are you going to do with the left-over solution? You can't legally dump it. What will you do with the partially empty bottle? You certainly can't dump that in a landfill or anywhere else. This product is EPA registered. Not all products necessarily pose a health risk for the applicator, some of them put the environment at risk.

Our once a year hazardous waste collection won't even take agricultural chemicals here. You pay to have safe disposal on them in most states through an appropriate agency.

Do you take the label seriously concerning the safety data. Oh my........you'd better. It's a legal document. I don't believe this is a restricted use pesticide (one where you have to have a license to use it). But it's 'big boy' stuff meant for professionals with training in application and disposal and they are responsible and liable when they use such chemicals for safety and environmental impact.

If I were in your shoes, I'd take it unopened to your nearest independent grower and ask them if they'd like to take it off your hands if they could use it.

I'm not trying to be scary or rude. I'm just wondering why getting commercial chemicals like this on the internet is so easy. Let's put it this way........if this product as packaged was intended to be used by homeowners it would be sold over the counter at your garden store. When they're not, there is a reason.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2010 at 7:36PM
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Thank you for both of your thoughts....
I actually heard about it on the forums here-- so people do use it---I called the avid company and spoke with someone who told me what Ken said---wear gloves and maybe a mask and don't get crazy spraying it all over. The directions are there for someone using it in a greenhouse or in the field in mass quantitites. I only have a very tiny container---it is 1/2 fl oz. -- came with a dropper for dosage. The container will mix with 12 gallons of water. I have about 40 boxwoods, so that may be enough for one dose.

Honestly, it was good to hear other's opinions.... I think at this point I'm going to try an over the counter product and if THAT doesn't work, I will go the avid route.

On a separate note, through researching this it seems as though many 'unprofessionals' who use this product do so for their marjuana plants!~ I teach Middle School, and will surely use this piece of information as YET another reason smoking pot is not safe.... you're putting something into your body that has no regulations on it.... you don't know what is sprayed on it etc. Heck, anything that will freak them out a bit to keep them from smoking at 12 (as I know many of my kids do) can only help right?

    Bookmark   July 17, 2010 at 9:34AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

one/400 of an ounce

IMHO ... completely contrary to what i said above... i would NOT TOUCH THE STUFF....

you are skipping from an organic solution ... to total thermonuclear warfare ....

there has to be some stuff in between these two alternatives.. that wont mess with your DNA ....

and as i am sure you would tell any middle schooler .. just cuz johnny is stupid enough to do it... doesnt make it right for you to do it ....



ps: i knew i should have done the research ....

    Bookmark   July 17, 2010 at 9:42AM
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LOL Ken. I know what this stuff is and actually it's an old stand-by, and relatively safe compared to a lot of other pesticides. This one is a product of the natural fermentation of a bacterium. It only has a 'warning' label and a relatively short re-entry time. The active ingredient is highly toxic to bees for a short while after application.

My big issue with miticides are the destruction of non-target insects. Ultimately predators are your best long-term defense against mites. And, I am relieved to see you got such a tiny container. I am used to thinking gallon sizes. I wonder if this isn't a sample?

I'd want goggles for eye protection for sure and my choice in masks would not be a paper dust mask. It would be like the label states a respirator mask approved for fine mists. I would also follow all other safety instructions on the label for the applicator. No way would I work 40 boxwoods with a little hand spray bottle. The safety sheets say that some people have dermal sensitivity to this product. Please read the MSDS for any product like this.

Thanks for not being offended at my remarks.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2010 at 12:57PM
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Thanks again---gosh, not offended at all---I appreciate the insight! Before reading your last 2 posts (and after I had written my last) my husband told me I was being ridiculous and that he would just apply it. He used a water sprayer---a lawn sprayer like Ken was describing. I endured the rolling of the eyes as I made him wear gloves, and mask, long sleeves, and threw all his clothes in the washer on hot as soon as he was done. I'm not sure I would have been able to convince him to wear the eye protection--- I am an over-reactor by nature, so after 20 years with me, he's used to taking me with a grain of salt.

I really don't want to mess with chemicals next year. What kind of predators can I introduce to the boxwoods next Spring, and where can I get them? Maybe if I start next year off right, and use the insecticidal soap/neem oil (any thoughts as to which is better, or use both in conjunction?) I can head off the problem. As a newbie, I didn't know the symptoms and feel I caught it late.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2010 at 1:15PM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

Climate is important when dealing with most problems. So where are you? Spider mite problems here on outdoor plants are fairly rare, and almost always caused by over application of pesticides. Regular pesticides kill predator insects, but not spider mites. So for a spider mite problem, regular application of any insecticide is not a good idea. Either nothing, or something labelled specifically as a miticide are the two choices. I'd definitely give nothing a try unless you are in a very dry climate, and spider mites are a much bigger general problem than I am used to.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2010 at 1:25PM
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

Keep this stuff away from children (especially), pregnant women, men or women who may be making babies, the elderly, pets, and any beneficial insects.

The active ingredient can cause serious eye injury, by the way. It is also absorbed through the skin and by inhalation. Cheap disposable gloves are not chemical resistant, and a paper dust mask doesn't filter out much of anything.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2010 at 1:13AM
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