Identifying Root Stock rose of Angel Face / Do I hack it all off?

gardenInTheSky(8b)March 10, 2013

Hi all, I've been reading these forums for awhile and finally decided to join myself today! I have several questions for you kind folks -

I recently bought an Angel Face rose from the grocery store and stuck it in a pot on my balcony along with some herbs. This would be my first venture in growing a full-sized rose, so I'm hoping it turns out well but I think the pot might be too small..

In any case, today I noticed that the two branches have different leaves - one has reddish new growth with paired leaves, and the other thinner one has new growth that's green, with alternating leaves. From browsing around online it seems that Angel Face has new growth that's red, meaning the green-leafed branch should be root stock and hacked off. What's confusing to me is that it appears the thinner branch is above the other branch on the main stem, and I thought root stock was supposed to show up from below?

It seems strange to me that the original grower would leave a root stock cane on the plant. Does this happen often / should I watch out if i get any more plants from the grocery store?

If I hack the green-leafed branch off I'll have an unbalanced rose bush, and I kind of like the idea of having two different types of flowers on the same plant. Would it be really awful if I let both branches grow?

I thought about attempting to root a cutting of the Angel Face so I could have an own root plant, but it seems that it might turn out worse than a grafted one. Is that right?

Thanks!

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roseseek

Your photo appears that the left cane of the plant has new growth while the right side is the older wood which is green. From that photo, I don't see any evidence of root stock suckering. When they bud, they allow the bud to push out its single stalk, then it is pinched back to cause it to branch. Your plant simply looks like that original branching of the inserted bud. I don't think you have anything to worry about yet. Welcome! Kim

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 2:24AM
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gardenInTheSky(8b)

Thanks for the reply! So I don't need to worry even though the types of leaves on the two branches are different?

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 3:27AM
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roseseek

I couldn't see any new foliage from the green right cane until I copied and enlarged the image. Sorry about that! It IS possible that right (green) cane is higher than the Angel Face one with the reddish foliage if they weren't clean in heading back the budded plant. That's when they cut the root stock above the bud union to push all the sap into the new rose. Because it isn't obvious this thing is something you don't want, just watch it a little while. Yes, the growth should be more red, and it is possible it's root stock, but if you're wrong, you will have an instant one cane wonder which will probably be difficult to resurrect into a decent plant. If you're right, waiting a little while until the cane in question proves to you it isn't something you want won't cost you much other than time. Kim

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 3:35AM
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jacqueline9CA

Patience, patience is a virtue. I would wait until both canes have blooms - then you can tell in an instant whether they are the same rose or not. It won't hurt it to wait.

Jackie

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 10:28AM
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gardenInTheSky(8b)

Ok, thank you both for your help! I spend too much time every day peering at this plant to see if it's grown any. :)

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 9:26PM
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susan4952(5)

She is my favorite and I grow several of her. This plant looks fine . I have never seen such a monster "trunk " as on our left. Many roses put out red/ burgundy colored new growth that will green up. If she were mine, I would prune the cane on our right down to a bud eye. Dunno how this diva will like sharing her space with others, tho. Lol. She is a beautiful rose. Keep us posted!

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 10:46PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Looks like a healthy growing rose to me. What size pot did you use? I use pots that are at least 2 ft. high and wide and if I can find bigger ones I get them. I like the plastic, resin or foam pots best because they hold up well and are light weight on their own. A pot of wet dirt and a full grown rose gets heavy! Put something under the pot to get it up off the deck so it will drain well. They sell pot trolleys but bricks or boards will do. You just want the water to be able to drain freely from the pot. Be sure to post a pic when it blooms!

    Bookmark   March 12, 2013 at 12:19AM
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gardenInTheSky(8b)

Hi seil, the pot is plastic and 18" (I think). It was the largest one I could find at the time from the grocery store, although I went back and week later and found they had an even larger size...The pot came with some kind of plastic insert that had cup-shaped 'legs' sunk down from the main disc shape and had holes, so I turned that upside down and the put the pot on top of that, all placed on top of a plastic dish thing with wheels. I don't think there was that much room between the bottom of the root ball and the bottom of the pot. Will it be a very big problem?

    Bookmark   March 12, 2013 at 8:55PM
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susan4952(5)

I know I am not Seil, but yes, eventually she will need more room.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 12:24AM
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seil zone 6b MI

It will probably be all right for this season but eventually you'll need a bigger pot. You don't want any kind of dish or tray underneath the pot that will hold water. It must be free to drain out and away from the pot. If there is water in a dish around the bottom of the pot the soil inside will absorb it and stay too wet and the roots will rot. Because you need that extra drainage you'll have to water it more often and that will also mean some extra fertilizing because some nutrients will wash out of the pot. Give it some fertilizer at least once a month.

You don't say where you are but if you're in a cold zone we can talk about winterizing in the fall.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 11:41AM
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gardenInTheSky(8b)

Thank you both! The pot is above the dish by a couple inches, held up by the 'legs' of that plastic insert so it's not actually sitting flat on the dish.

I am in zone 8b, and it rarely gets below freezing. I usually just bring my potted plants inside for the night when it does. I can do the same for this large pot if I have to because the dish is on rollers, but if it's cold hardy enough to take down to say.. 30F for one night can I get by without taking any special winter precautions?

    Bookmark   March 14, 2013 at 1:59AM
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roseseek

Dipping to 30 F as a night low isn't a problem for it. Believe me, if that thing was produced in Wasco, CA (and most other places budded roses are produced) it has already experienced MUCH worse than that. I worked for a week during the harvest in the rose fields in Wasco. The DAY TIME HIGHS for the week were low to mid twenties! Thirty degrees for a few hours won't hurt it. Kim

    Bookmark   March 14, 2013 at 2:14AM
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gardenInTheSky(8b)

Thanks very much! Looking closely at the plant today, I realized I have 5 buds on the way - 4 on the thick stem and 1 on the thinner, so I guess I'll know soon whether one is root stock or not. I'm so excited :D

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 9:29PM
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gardenInTheSky(8b)

I know it's been awhile, but I wanted put up an update on how my Angel Face was doing - there were several blossoms which proved that that second branch (on the right in my first post) was not a root stock cane. It all smelled wonderful!

While all the blossoms in the picture are now gone, I think my plant is getting ready for round two and I can't wait.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 12:00AM
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seil zone 6b MI

It looks beautiful, congratulations! And yes, AF does smell wonderful!

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 11:14AM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

Looks great. I would pull the herbs out of the pot and put them in a different pot. They'll be competing with the rose for water, and roses don't compete very well.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 5:18PM
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gardenInTheSky(8b)

The herbs are rosemary and oregano. I'm not actually sure about the oregano, but I thought that rosemary was an ok companion plant for roses (I could be wrong here, but I thought that it didn't need much water or fertilizer)? The main reason I put the herbs in there was in the hopes of having some natural pest control for the rose bush, but if it looks like it's doing poorly I'll move them out.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2013 at 4:14PM
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roseseek

Yes, the herbs are more "drought tolerant", but the rose is not. Just because the herbs can get by on less water does not mean they are going to not make use of the extra water you give the rose. They WILL make use of every resource you provide and they will proliferate, eventually choking out the rose. You would want anything edible separate from the rose (or anything else you may use a pesticide or fungicide on) so you keep water, fertilizer and chemical requirements separate. Kim

    Bookmark   May 19, 2013 at 5:39PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

Put the herbs in separate pots and cluster those pots around the rose pot.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2013 at 5:59PM
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gardenInTheSky(8b)

I certainly don't want my rose to get choked to death, but I do like the look of the herbs with it. Would digging up the herbs / entire top layer of dirt and putting a layer of that garden fabric / mesh netting down (the kind that people use to keep weeds away) before putting the herbs back have the same effect as putting them in separate pots? It would at least keep the herb roots from getting deeper into the pot where the rose roots are.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2013 at 7:44PM
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roseseek

NO. You have to feed and water the rose and that is best accomplished FROM THE TOP. The water and nutrients are going to go through the herbs first so they'll get theirs before the rose will. You want the rose healthy and vigorous. Why take half its root area; half its water holding potential away from it for the herbs? What happens when you determine you don't like the bugs or fungal issues and want to spray the rose to get rid of them? You don't want to spray your herbs, even with organics or bacterials.

If the plants were in the ground, it would be less of an issue as there would be tremendously greater soil area providing tremendously better water holding potential than the pot does. Even then, though, you would still face the potential spray issue. Plus, the rose will benefit from being regularly fed. The herbs generally don't NEED to be. Kim

    Bookmark   May 19, 2013 at 8:03PM
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gardenInTheSky(8b)

Allright, thanks for the advice. I guess I'd better go find some more pots.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2013 at 8:43PM
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