Hardy dark red tea rose?

galinasApril 26, 2014

Hi,
Can somebody give me a name for a hardy black-red hybrid tea rose, if such rose exists at all? If not black-red, then some other compact hardy roses to grow in central-west Massachusetts??

I am in zone 5, and no hybrid tea roses survived more then 3 years - this crazy winter I lost 3 of them, despite I cover them for winter and only buy local plants that marked as "Hardy". I probably should just plant what grows in my zone OK(Knock-outs are doing very well, but...), but I really like tea roses...

This post was edited by galinas on Sat, Apr 26, 14 at 14:21

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eibren(z6PA)

Dr. Huey might work, but not really a tea and has other issues.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hedgerowrose.com

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 2:14PM
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galinas

Thank you, eibren!
but looking at the site name I assume that Dr. Huey is a hedge rose? I have very limited space that hedge rose will overgrow in a season, this is another reason I am looking for tea roses - they are usually very compact.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 2:20PM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

Don't cover them. The odds are it will do a lot more damage than help. HTs will also *require* a regular spray program.

If you take care of those two issues, and can grow Knock Outs, you should be able to grow reasonably hardy HTs. (Knock Outs aren't all that hardy either)

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 2:44PM
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canadian_rose(zone 3a)

Why don't you grow a few cherished roses in large pots and overwinter them in the garage?
I grow 50 or so roses like this. But if you do just one or two - it won't be overwhelming for you.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 2:46PM
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seil zone 6b MI

I'm sure there are some HTs that will winter in zone 5...even in Massachusetts. Local nurseries aren't always the best place to get advice. They may not really know that much about roses and they want to sell you plants so...

If you want better advice contact a local rose society. They grow roses and know what ones will work in your area. You can find a local rose society by going to the American Rose Society web site.

Another good place on line to do some research is called HelpMeFind (dot) com (slash) roses. You can do searches by class, color and zone.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 7:33PM
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galinas

Thank you very much, everybody! I will try to research the web site and see if I can find something for my garden

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 8:20PM
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professorroush(6A)

Try 'Queen Buck', a Griffith Buck rose. She's usually darker than pictured on my blog, linked below:

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musingsblog on Queen Bee

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 12:35PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Clarification needed: Are you looking for tea roses or hybrid tea roses? They are not the same things, you know. : )

I'm assuming you mean hybrid tea roses. Below is a link to a good discussion of some popular black/red roses. You are aware that there really are no black roses--and some so-called black roses look rather red at times, depending on weather and age and such factors?

Good luck--I particularly like Black Baccara, myself.

Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: 7 Most Beautiful Black Roses

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 12:51PM
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galinas

Yes, I am looking for Hybrid tea rose, and yes, I know there are no black roses) I am just looking for deep red color, not deep pink or magenta. Thanks for the tips, professorroush and Kate!

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 1:57PM
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spike(6a)

I live in eastern MA and have never had issues with overwintering HT's here. I have over 30 now and haven't lost one in a while. I recommend growing them in the ground, not in pots and making sure you plant the graft just below the soil surface. Covering them over winter is key. I pile leaves up around the base and dump compost on top to keep the leaves from blowing around. This also gives them good air circulation so the roots don't suffocate.

Right now, the darkest red rose that I have is Oklahoma, which does well for me here -

-Will

    Bookmark   April 27, 2014 at 9:35PM
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galinas

Will,
Thank you for your advice! would like to ask you some questions about winter protection if it is OK.

1) Are all your roses growing against a house wall? My only spot for roses is a north-east corner of the yard, and it is attached to the street and has now cover, so I guess the wind is pretty bad there in winter. Do you thing they will benefit from temporary winter wall I can make using stakes and tarp?

2) How tall do I need to pile the leaves? I used straw and Rose Collars(bought on Amazon), but they retain so much moister and whole middle of the bush was covered with ice because of it. So this winter I just piled compost for about 5 inches high. Lost 1 rose and two under a question. When do you take the leaves away? By date or by outside temperature? Again, this year when I thought the spring is here, it was a week with 10F and wind...

3) By the late fall roses become very tall, do you cut them back before winter at all, or wait for spring? Some how it feels that the taller they are, the more prone to the cold they should be, but it is may be just my imagination and an attempt to humanize the plants) (we all try to keep all parts of the body close to each other and have less exposure to the air when it is cold)

4) Also, you rose looks extremely healthy. Where do you buy your plants, and what kind of spraying program you use?(Detailed, if you please with dates and chemical names. All programs I can find designed for south growers, and do not fit our climate schedule. I ended up using Bayer All-In-One Rose & Flower Care every three weeks with a last application at the end of August. )

Thank you so much in advance!

Galina

    Bookmark   April 28, 2014 at 5:26AM
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upmichiganJim(4)

I grew Oklahoma for 2-3 seasons before the winter in Michigan's
upper peninsula got to it. Used a mound of dirt over the pruned
canes then a styrofoam rose cone stuffed with oak leaves.
However, I just bought a new rose called Navy Lady and it is
Canadian, hardy to zone 3, about two feet high shrub and it is supposed to be a very dark red, darker than Champlain. Maybe
it would work for you.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2014 at 6:25AM
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pembroke(6--Louisville KY)

I like the Chrysler Imperial and IF on own root should be OK in zone 5. I use pine bark mulch about 6 inches deep in winter. So far has come back here. Pembroke

    Bookmark   April 28, 2014 at 4:37PM
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spike(6a)

Hi galinas,

No, not all of my roses are against walls. I have an entire bed of roses exposed in the yard. However, if you get a lot of winter wind, a temporary barrier may help quite a bit.

I generally pile the leaves about a foot above the ground level. The leaves are put around the roses in the Fall when I clean them off the yard (I have mostly Oaks in the yard, so it's a bit later than most). Generally in late October early November. I am just uncovering the roses now this Spring. I try to wait until the temperatures no longer drop below 30F overnight.

I never prune the roses in the Fall. Even if they have passed flowers or hips, I leave them on until Spring. When the roses start to slow down a lot, I stop all deadheading. I have just started pruning the roses now (about when the Forsythias begin to bloom).

I have gotten roses from all over. Jackson & Perkins, Weeks Roses, Certified Roses, Mea Nursery, local garden centers (not sure what the nurseries were). Basically, I don't limit my rose buying to northern nurseries. I grow a lot of roses that are normally hardy to only zone 7 or even 8, but having them grafted on hardy rootstock makes a big difference as long as I cover them overwinter. This way the roots never die, and the graft is protected by the pile of leaves/compost.

As for spraying, I don't really have a schedule. I go by what the roses need at any given time. For instance, the green worms show up early in the Summer, so I use 1 time spray of Permethrin on them, and they disappear. Aphids and other mites can be gotten rid of using insectisidal soap or Neem Oil (which I will spray every few weeks as needed). Japanese Beetles are awful, usually have to pick them off, but Permethrin will also take care of them somewhat (usually later in the season).

Fungicide is also sprayed as needed. Some years I almost don't have to spray at all. Some years (like last year), I was spraying every few weeks with Chlorothalonil (not a fan of the chemicals, but the entire yard was infected with awful fungus problems last year). I may end up trying out Green Cure at some point, which is supposed to be organic fungicide that works well for roses.

Hopefully this helps somewhat. Let me know if you have any more questions.

-Will

    Bookmark   April 28, 2014 at 7:17PM
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galinas

Will, thanks a lot for your very detailed message! I will try to follow and hope I wouldn't waste my roses every year)

This post was edited by galinas on Mon, Apr 28, 14 at 19:25

    Bookmark   April 28, 2014 at 7:24PM
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spike(6a)

Glad to help.

One more thing. In our area (Massachusetts), try to never water the roses in the evening. Only water them early morning. This will significantly reduce fungal attacks due to our cooler nights.

-Will

    Bookmark   April 28, 2014 at 10:08PM
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Patricia43(z8 AL)

I love Papa Meilland but he has the legs of an old man with a walking cane but his fragrance and his bloom are unsurpassed in the rose world. I grow or have grown many of the above. My least favorite was Baccara but it could have been the provider from whom I purchased it. Do you want a big old beautiful red cilmber that you can shape into a bush? Fields of the Wood.

This post was edited by patricia43 on Tue, Apr 29, 14 at 12:48

    Bookmark   April 29, 2014 at 12:47PM
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vmr423

I don't know if 'Ingrid Bergman' (a Danish HT) is a dark enough red for you, but it is rated as cold-hardy to zone 4b...

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Ingrid Bergman' at HMF

    Bookmark   April 29, 2014 at 1:34PM
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nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

I love the black-red color and grow a wide variety of them in zone 5 Nebraska. Many of them do best in my warm spot in my yard that is effectively zone 6, so roses like Deep Secret or Black Magic or Black Baccara do better for me with some babying.

A completely bullet-proof black-red bush is LavaGlut - it's a Kordes rose meaning almost always hardy. The blooms are small and the bush is modest sized but they're reliably dark burgundy black-red even in hot temperatures. It doesn't get any disease for me and even laughs off this past winter. Another Kordes black-red that does pretty well is Black Lady. I've learned from experimenting that zone 5 seems to be about its limit (it died twice in my zone 4 pocket of the yard). It doesn't have any fragrance, but it's a great color. I don't think either of these is a Hybrid Tea, but they're double well-formed blooms and more graceful than the Knockouts.

Another black-red that you should consider is Barcelona/Francis Dubreuil (it goes by two names depending on how it is sold). Sometimes it's listed as a tea rose, which isn't recommended for any colder than zone 7, but common wisdom has suggested it's the old hybrid tea Barcelona. Mine is cane hardy in zone 5 and puts out the most delicious double blooms that are the most fragrant roses I've ever smelled. It's toe-curling wonderful.

I do winter protect all my roses with bags of leaves set around the roses, but the bags keep the moisture of the leaves away from the roses themselves. It's my best "lazy" way to winter protect and in your zone you have more winter moisture issues to be concerned about so you may want to watch trapping moisture around the canes over the winter. None of the roses above should need winter protection, though if you have grafted roses (usually sold as potted or bareroot roses), you want to make sure to plant the graft several inches below the soil line so the original rose survives the winter if the canes do not.

Have fun and let us know what you decide!

Cynthia

    Bookmark   April 29, 2014 at 2:02PM
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galinas

Cynthia, thanks a lot! I love idea of the leaves in the bags. I may use it to build the wall around my rose bed. I will search for the roses you named too.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2014 at 2:12PM
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Patricia43(z8 AL)

Barcelona/Francis Dubreuil. Beautiful and pretty healthy rose. It can get larger than expectations if it is well fed and watered. One of the most fragrant roses. As it is most likely a tea, the only red tea rose to my knowledge.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 7:46AM
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the_morden_man((Z4-Z5) Ontario, Canada)

Silly question, but is there a specific reason the rose needs to be a hybrid tea? There are many modern red shrub roses that are hardier and more disease resistant than HT's and still have upright growth and excellent bud and bloom form.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 9:04AM
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true_blue(Mtl Can Zone 4b)

galinas, If you still want to grow hybrid teas, I'd recommend planting the bud union between 2-4 inches below the soil level. This way your rose will be fine. I've over wintered several hybrid teas and miniatures, which are hardy to zone 7 normally. If you have adequate snow cover that's the best protection. Good Luck!

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 10:08AM
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galinas

To the_morden_man:
Not a silly question) probably it is just my luck of knowledge. I want a rose with strait stems, large blooms, compact and fragrant with lager petal count . Some other roses I have that fit this description are HT. This is why I am looking for HT. ) But I have no idea if there any others that fit as well. Please let me know if they do! As far as snow cover goes - almost every winter we have at least 2 weeks with temp below 15F without any amount of snow... So i guess it is enough to harm...

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 2:15PM
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galinas

to true-blue(or who ever can answer)):
I know I have to plant it deeper.. But can you explain why if planting deep doesn't affect rose health(actually benefits it in winter), why people on the south should plant it more shallow? I use to think (from fruit tree perspective) that by placing grafting point under the soil, you are compromising grafted tree and it will grow as its root stock, not as cultured tree.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 2:17PM
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true_blue(Mtl Can Zone 4b)

Galinas, the deeper you plant the rose, the heavier you need to feed the rose. As the roots are way way down. That's why ideally you buy roses hardy to your zone. So that you don't have to go through all this trouble.

Here is a thread, which explains the why...

Here is a link that might be useful: Bud unions

This post was edited by true-blue on Wed, Apr 30, 14 at 18:19

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 6:18PM
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galinas

Thanks a lot, true-blue, this explains...

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 7:21PM
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NOACCEPTANCE772(8a)

As Kate, I prefer Black Baccara too :)
It has those bouquet flowers :D
It is a prolific bloomer too and has a nice fragrance to it. The fragrance is not noticable but when ou smell it, you'll be amazed :P
I cannot wait till it starts giving me longer stems!

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 8:25PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

If not black-red, then some other compact hardy roses to grow in central-west Massachusetts??

For roses that if I were growing them in your area, I would NEITHER protect nor pamper and still expect to be fabulous in a couple of years, then please see the list of roses in the post by

the_morden_man

in the thread linked below:

Here is a link that might be useful: most blackspot resistant hybrid tea?

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 12:04AM
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