Anybody in the Northeast with borderline zone trees concerned?

ilovemytrees(5b/6a Western, NY)January 5, 2014

These several below zero temps we've had, and more forecasted for this week, especially Tuesday, are starting to spook me when it comes to my Golden Raintree. Our weather man Don Paul yesterday said he's only said the word "Brutal" a few times in his 30 year career, and he said that word applies to this coming Tuesday.

I've already got the tree wrapped up head to toe like a mummy with breathable fabric tree wrap. Now I'm thinking maybe throwing a blanket around it.

Can doing this raise it a zone or half zone? Hopefully the snow is providing its own blanket of warmth...

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huggorm

You can put up some christmus decoration lamps on the tree before you throw the blanket over it, that will help raising the temperature a bit

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 9:00AM
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greenthumbzdude

my wild type southern magnolia looks pretty beat up right now since we had -5 degree temperatures and high winds.......I hope it survives.......also have a brown turkey fig but I wrapped that up and put a large bucket over it so I am not sure about that one.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 9:45AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

What temps are forecasted in your area? I'm not aware of anywhere in New York that is going to exceed -10.

If your weatherman is talking about your area we need to send him over to WI and sit him in the middle of a field to experience brutal, lol

Here are my lows thus far for Dec/Jan. My plants are being tested with a zone 4b winter (I'm techncially inbetween 5a & 5b). Won't know if you don't try...certainly don't have any zone 6 plants but several plants pushing the zone 5 limit like some Cornus kousa, Quercus dentata, Abies procera, etc. I'm leaving everything be. I honestly feel bad for those in MN and Northern/Western WI not so much for anyone else, lol.

0
-4
-8
-6
-5
-2
-7
-10
-3
-13
-1
-7
-14
-23 (forecast)
-20 (forecast)
-10 (forecast)

By the way your blanket and fabric will only protect against wind. Your tree isn't holding in any heat nor is the ground if it has any snow cover.

This post was edited by whaas on Sun, Jan 5, 14 at 10:09

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 9:48AM
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smivies

The further north one lives, the more frequent one experiences 'arctic outflows'. We hit -16 to -18F at least once every 2 years but no colder in the last 15 years (we're missing the latest outflow but have been down to -12F already). Several older C. kousa and at least one C. florida have never had any dieback though the C. florida loses flower buds.

Hope that offers some reassurance for your Dogwood?

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 10:34AM
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salicaceae(z8b FL)

Having lived and grown rare trees in Ohio, Minnesota and now north Florida, I would argue that concerns about freeze damage can even be worse in the deep south. This is where 1. Many trees aren't accustomed to extreme freezing temps and 2. Due to fluctuating temps, many species can be tempted to begin growth in winter, only to be severely damaged during a brief cold event. We are expect 2 nights at 19 F, that is after many weeks of temps in the 60s and 70s and no gradual cool down (only a few nights in the low 30s and one night in upper 20s so far). If a tree is active growth, 19 F can be devastating. Thus, many of us in the south are worried and will be covering borderline plants. OTOH, 19F is exactly within my zone for annual lowest temps. Cold damage to trees up north with this type of weather will most likely occur in the form of winter burn on some conifers, death of new growth that didn't harden off well in the fall, frost cracks on some thin-barked species and defoliation of some BLEs like magnolias and some hollies. My advice to you is to cover whatever is reasonable if you are concerned. It will be worth it if you avoid damage.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 11:31AM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

I agree with Whaas. What are you going to do when it gets cold?

If you are on the 5/6 border, that means that -10 is a perfectly reasonable winter low. A cold winter may see temperatures as low as -20. Having seen -30 on a thermometer here, I wouldn't plant something that I expected to be a permanent garden attribute that couldn't handle -20 without trouble. I am willing to take chances with -30 again.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 11:31AM
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wisconsitom

As I've recounted already in the Conifers forum, I've got four Chamaecyparis lawsoniana "Oregon Blue" planted up at my land near Suring, WI. a solid Z4. This winter will be their first in this location, and at least up until last Sun. they looked just fine, that is the top portions that were not snow-covered. So this will really be quite the test of these plants at least as far as cold-hardiness is concerned.

Should they survive the winter, I am led to believe there will be further calamities as they are faced by various root-rot pathogens. There I might just be in the clear, having planted them in a decidedly well-drained soil part of my property. We shall see, we shall see.....

Also have a number of Thuja "Green Giant" planted in same general area, which up until now, have done very well. This winter may perhaps be testing them as well. They've withstood four winters there to date.

+oM

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 12:41PM
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subtropix

First up, I absolutely hate this arctic cold. I hope it does not last long for anyone and that your plants make it. As awful as this weather is, locally, we have not broken zonal minimals (nor are expected to). So, we may drop to anywhere from 5 to 10 above. (Still zone 7a/7b.) Lots of ranges in predictions due to current snow cover, but forecasting is calling for heavy rain tonight so a lot of the snow cover will disappear. Snow cover is interesting. On the one hand, it protects buried plants and roots from extreme cold but it also lets air temps plummet at night. For the Magnolias, we have had more damage from heavy,wet snow loads than any other factor. So, not worried about the Magnolias.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 12:50PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

nope.. i dont zone push ...

and as to zone appropriate plants.. who wants them.. if they dont understand such ..

what i lose.. i lose.. and it wont be some failure on my part ...

i have been rather entertained.. over the last few years.. with all these peeps including the gubment.. saying there was zone creeping ... so they all run out and buy one zone higher plants..

listen to me.. mother nature does not listen to the gubment... and she has no sense of humor ... she kills.. simply to mess with us ... its a common farmers lament ....

i love my plants too ... but i dont need a bunch of sissy plants who cant take a joke from ma nature.. glad to be done with you.. if you are so foo foo.. you cant take a little winter ...

ken

ps: we have some pretty good snow cover.. about a foot right now.. and after today.. maybe two feet ... it would not surprise me.. if much stuff dies back to snow cover .... and that is how it is supposed to work ... death will mostly favor those with the cold.. and lacking snow cover ... didnt you mention 4 feet of snow in winter in your area is common ... if so... how much loss can you have.. snow is mother natures insulator ...... air temps are irrelevant ....[she giveth.. and she taketh]

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 1:30PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Yes snow cover can keep soil temps up to 20 degrees warmer.

At the end day if you have it, you'll likely be fine as the roots are key. With some conifers you may just lose them all together if the buds are exposed and die off, pines for sure.

My luck I've missed all the snow lately, including the one rolling through south today. I have anywhere between 4" and 12" depending on drifting. In some cases I can see mulch under several plants.

Temps are forecasted to EXCEED the MAX range of my min. temp average for zone 5a and I'm not even considered to be in the max range. The latest says its going to stay between -16 and -25 for close to 48 straight hours.

Actually interested to see what happens in spring believe it not!

If the Pack can pull off a win against the most annoying team in the NFL I'll take the arctic blast like a champ.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 2:10PM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

Part of the problem, from reading a lot of screaming/crying/whining post, is that people don't seem to understand what the USDA zones mean. Zone ratings are an *average* of winter lows. They aren't record lows, or even close to record lows. They are averages. So for here, where the official average from the new map is a little bit below -10, that means that for every year we barely go below zero, we are due a year that hits -20. In reality, those close to zero years are balanced by two years of around -15, but you get the idea. Any long term plantings are going to, as a matter of course, experience temperatures below the zone averages.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 2:29PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

I found that the lows for a given season seem to cycle through and reach the MAX average min range every 10-15 years around here.

Its been 16 years since it has gotten this cold and then the record was set as recently as 32 years ago in 1982 with -35 degrees. So in two days I'll be within 10 degrees of the all time low set for a 100+ year timeframe.

Plenty to complain about if you ask me!lol

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 4:22PM
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toronado3800 Zone 6 StLouis(6)

St Louis is in a bubble of zone 6 on the old maps and I find the rating to be reasonable. I think of it as:

If you expect your plant to live 50 years then it better be able to handle 0F to -10F.

Far as that goes, this -8F we are due to hit tonight is the coldest in the decade or so I have lived in my house. I'm curious if there will be any die back. The zone 7 Crepe Myrtle Lowe's sold my wife and the zone 6 one I planted this year are the plants I'm thinking are the ones to be concerned about.

It is January though and we have had a decently cold and predictable winter. Who above mentioned timing.... 20F in October or late April SHOULD be more of a problem.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 12:56AM
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ilovemytrees(5b/6a Western, NY)

We're getting 2 feet of snow, 50mph wind gusts, and -40 windchill for the next 2 days, so it's out of my hands now. Well, it was always out of my hands, but I felt like I could do something to protect my 3 year old tree. It's going to be swallowed completely up in the snow.

I've lived here in Western NY for 20 years and I can't recall such freezing cold weather.

Anyway, as Ken says, Mother Nature is truly in charge.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 10:07AM
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huggorm

I wish there was some snow where I live but it is just raining and raining, there is no end to it this year. Good for delicate plants though

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 12:00PM
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subtropix

What bizarre weather! This morning it was in the 50's with peas soup thick fog (due to snow cover). Then, a squall line came through with torrential rains. So, now waiting for arctic air and wind. They did raise the temp minimums and maximums though surprisingly. Maybe due to washing alway of snow cover? So now calling for 18/12 max/min range. Oh, then it's back into the 50's. Is anyone having a 'normal' Winter btw?!

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 12:15PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

We almost set a 100+ year record with the lowest high temperature. The front just didn't come as quickly as forecasted last night.

Otherwise

its -18 as of 11:15am. -50 wind chill.

This post was edited by whaas on Mon, Jan 6, 14 at 12:18

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 12:16PM
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mikebotann(8a SE of Seattle)

I'm with Ken, I don't grow marginally hardy plants. There's plenty of plants to choose from no matter what zone you're in. There's enough to worry about and spend money on without adding to the mix.
Mike

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 12:58PM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

Our lows tonight should fit right within zone 7 long term averages 0 to 5 or so. Some chance of dipping below zero. However, all of our cold snaps this winter have underperformed expectations in our area, as in, not as cold as forecast.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 1:18PM
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j0nd03

Well if it's too cold to go outside, here's an absolute gem of a football game to pass the time. I'm watching it now myself and no matter how hard I try, I can't wipe this goofy grin off my face =D

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 1:48PM
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arktrees(6b NW Arkansas)

John,
I knew you wouldn't be able to leave that one alone forever. ;-) Still congrats to OU. By far the best I saw them play this year.

Back on topic,
4F at noon here, and we didn't get the core of the cold. Got to -4 and -20F wind chill at my house this morning right in line with the Zone 6b I have stayed with. Had we had calm winds, it would have been much much lower. 20+ degree warm up expected beginning tomorrow.

Arktrees

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 1:57PM
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joeschmoe80(6 (Ohio))

GEtting colder by the minute here.

This post was edited by joeschmoe on Mon, Jan 6, 14 at 14:57

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 2:23PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

I'm with Ken, I don't grow marginally hardy plants. There's plenty of plants to choose from no matter what zone you're in. There's enough to worry about and spend money on without adding to the mix.

Come on Mike, give me a break ,lol. Your in one of the few spots in the world that allows such a a great diversity of plants to grow. Isn't your all time record low around 15 degrees? I'm out sledding in my shorts with that weather...wheee!

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 2:36PM
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mikebotann(8a SE of Seattle)

I'm in the colder part of zone 8 up here in the foothills. It's been down to 8F twice this winter so far. I have been able to comfortable walk on the ice on the ponds both times. A few years ago I saw 4F several nights in a row.
I grew up north of Zone 5 Spokane, Wa. Our well froze at 15F below. We used to sled on the snow crust.
I moved to the Seattle area as soon as I was on my own, two days after high school graduation. College on this side of the mountains also.
You guys can have your zone 5, and frozen Lambeau Field. ;-)
Mike...Go Seahawks!

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 5:59PM
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beng(z6 western MD)

***
Posted by ilovemytrees 5b/6a Western, NY (My Page) on
Mon, Jan 6, 14 at 10:07

It's going to be swallowed completely up in the snow.
***

Not a bad thing as long as it doesn't get bent down. Snow insulates from the frigid cold.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 7:26PM
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joeinmo 6b-7a

Two words - cold duration. Lows in themselves don't mean anything. Its how cold for how long. Orange groves can be in the teens for 4 hours before fruit will freeze and even longer before tree damage.

In addition are you using USDA zones (which are mainly for plants) or Arborday zones (which are for trees)?

I am borderline 6b-7a SW Missouri, USDA 6b and Arborday 7a

We were at zero degrees from 2am until 4:30 am then -1 for 2 hours then -4 for 1 hour then -6 for an hour, then sunrise and rebounded to -1 for an hour then zero for 2 and above 4 degrees then to 11 degrees for rest of day.

So even though the we fell below zone 7a temps 0-5 above for a few hours, it wasn't long enough to do any damage. Tomorrow near 40. So a one day blast for a few hours is totally different from let's say Chicago in border 5b-6a that was below zero -15 low and -11 high for 24 hours plus the next day below zero all day again.

Or if you hit zero for 5 days in a row and don't get above 5 degrees (even though that technically qualifies for zone 7a) it's far far worse than hitting -5 for a couple hours for 1 night. My zone 7 Crepe Myrtles will have no problem with the temps as well as other borderline trees and plants.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 7:51PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Yes, go Seahawks! Only team left for me to route for.
As you can imagine I'm a big RW fan.

We'll finally get above 0 by noon on Wednesday. The 30s coming up this weekend are looking real nice!

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 9:05PM
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toronado3800 Zone 6 StLouis(6)

It is cold enough I have my gloves on all the time and haven't taken any cell phone photos of the snow cover! I might have to power up the old digital camera lok.

My Thujas have a bit of browning going on. The Ilex whatevers seem unimpressed. Tough to tell with the deciduous trees.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 10:28PM
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poaky1

Just my Live oak "late drop" seedlings. We have had -5F last night -5F so far tonight, but is supposed to be -10F eventually tonight. And -5F tomorrow as a low. I have a Q. Fusiformis that may get damaged. I will look at them Wednesday, when we should be in the 20's. It all is just within the zone 6 temps. We are having harsh winds too. I haven't covered anything but one palm tree, if the live oaks are going to live here for years they need to take these temps occasionally. Oh, Duh, the palm trees, and hardy banana.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2014 at 11:18PM
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ilovemytrees(5b/6a Western, NY)

They called for 2ft of snow for my specific area, and we didn't even get 1 inch of snow!

In fact, the high gusty winds, because of their direction, blew most of the snow out of my back yard!

Where there was 2ft of snow around my golden raintree and my shrubs, today, there is NONE.

Late this morning they still had their snow warning for us, even though the skies were bright blue and the sun was out, not a cloud in the sky. It was gorgeous! People all around my area on social media were blasting them for their over-hyping our area for snow. It's ridiculous!

Now Buffalo is getting socked with snow, for once! The I90 is shut down from PA to northern NY all day and evening, driving bans everywhere.

This post was edited by ilovemytrees on Tue, Jan 7, 14 at 15:49

    Bookmark   January 7, 2014 at 3:48PM
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poaky1

My "late drop" live oaks look okay, well, the 2 nearest to the house. My Magnolia Grandifolia looks unaffected, as does the Bracken's brown beauty, they aren't really marginal (mags) but I added that. I am happily surprised by the Late drops being foliated still, but there will be -5F tonight yet.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2014 at 7:31PM
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beng(z6 western MD)

-4F yesterday morning & breezy (good thing). What was surprising that the sun was out & the temp still barely moved -- hardly above 0F at noon. Today not so bad....

    Bookmark   January 8, 2014 at 10:01AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

It was below zero from 7pmish on Sunday and just today Wednesday around 11am it went above zero. That was a brutal stretch no matter how you cut it.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2014 at 1:08PM
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wisconsitom

Yes, cold, but not, as the news/weather dopes are putting it, anything like unprecedented. I remember back in '94 or '96, whenever it was, a day where the high temp was 20 below 0 (Farenheit). That was a cold stretch. To hear these folks yabber on, you'd think this was some kind of new phenomenon.

Incidentally, one or two of you may be reading this and thinking that, well, new low temp records are being broken, so this must be a new thing......but please do realize that new temp records, whether high or low, are routinely broken for any given date. IOWs, within a completely "average" or "normal" year, there will be individual days/nights wherein new record low or high temps will occur. Together, these then go into making up the average for that given year or otherr timespan.

Those idiots on TV and radio are completely out of hand with all their stammering. I can't believe how stupid and wussified we're becoming!

+oM

    Bookmark   January 8, 2014 at 2:39PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

No surprise there. The media's goal is to sensationalize weather events to increase viewer ship.

Certainly doesn't change how cold it was. '96 is the year we last had a cold snap like this. I believe '82 was the prior one to that. Look at it this way, you may only see a cold snap similar in nature 4-6 times in your lifetime.

I have to say weather is certainly one of my peeves to complain about. No shocker there! Can't say I think too much about it outside this forum unless there is a drought. That is a time killer for me.

Here are the lows from the past 5 days.

-8
-18 (-50 wind chill)
-17
-13
-15

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 10:22AM
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famartin(z5 NE NV)

I'm curious how my little Coast Redwood (Sequoia sempervirens) in New Jersey will end up after winter is over. Its done fine the previous 4 winters, but this winter has gotten a couple degrees colder (1, versus 3 degrees back in 2011) and also featured a really extreme temperature drop (57 degrees Monday morning to 3 degrees Tuesday morning). I presume the Giant Sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum) I also have planted nearby will be alright.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 7:31PM
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poaky1

Well, we did have -10F right on the button on Tues eve-Wed morn, and my 2 closest to the house Live oak "late drop" have made it fine in true zone 6 for 2 1/2 days. One looks just slightly rough, but fully foliated with buds that look like they are fine, although small. The other one in the back yard has tan leaf edges on about 1/4 of the lower leaves, but otherwise great. I am glad so far that I did the zone pushing with these live oaks, Q. Fusiformis look like 1/2 the leaves are gone.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 9:26PM
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subtropix

For all the hysterics, locally at least, winter has not been that bad. It was 72 degrees F. a few days before Christmas, then there was a snowstorm, then the "Polar Vortex", bringing a minimum of 5 above. Today, is 60 with heavy rain and tomorrow sounds delightful--sunny and clear around 50. The cold, when it is here, seems very short-lived, then are a very mild periods. As much as I hate the cold, I can live with this. Japanese fan palms went through the vortex just fine too.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2014 at 12:35PM
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poaky1

Hey, I took and uploaded these 2 pictures, I may as well post them here. Taken today Jan 14, 2014, my 2 oldest Live oak "late drop" in zone 6 Pa. This is winter #2 for these 2 trees: Not too bad for Live oak in Pa zone 6, huh? I shouldn't get too confident, right?

    Bookmark   January 14, 2014 at 11:08PM
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davidrt28 (zone 7)

" Isn't your all time record low around 15 degrees?"

Nowhere in the PNW has all-time record lows that mild except for the coastal parts of SW Oregon that are currently rated zn 9. You can just get such enormous domes of cold air there...the ones that do manage to cross the Cascades. Seattle's all time record low is 0F.

Overall damage at 3F was not as bad as it might have been. For one thing, most of the East coast came into it from relatively cool conditions. We didn't have a long mild stretch as happened in some of the famous freezes of the 20th century, like the one in the late 70s that killed almost all the camellias at the National Arboretum. Yes, there was a very brief mild period between the freezes but not enough to wake plants up.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 3:23PM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

A December or February freeze is often more damaging than January - in December, some plants may not be 100% dormant yet, and in February, their chilling requirements are usually met, so any bit of warm weather before the cold snap can quickly deharden them.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 3:37PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

David, I was being sarcastic.

The record low recorded for Seattle is 11 degrees set in Feb 1989.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2014 at 10:11AM
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davidrt28 (zone 7)

Not surprisingly it's hard to find NOAA stations with long periods of record in the young Pacific Northwest.

0F is correct for Seatac Airport, which is the current official station for Seattle.

The figure you cite is a downtown station with a shorter period of record.

Oldest downtown figures are at the University, since 1909. All time low there is 5F in 1939.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?wa7478

    Bookmark   January 18, 2014 at 11:22AM
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famartin(z5 NE NV)

I'll be making an unscheduled trip back east this coming week so I'll check out the Sequoia sempervirens and post back.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2014 at 4:09AM
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canadianplant

Up here in NW ontario, its been cold. The coldest december in 32 years. Its decieving though because the last 20 years have been so warm. Although it was that cold we werent shattering records every day.

The bonus was that even though it was a long fall again, the cold settled in rather then hammering us, which means that by the time it got real cold the plants were already dormant. Recorded temp was -39C at the airport, proably closer to -30C in my yard. New years eve had a windchill of -55C.

This is a lot closer to the winters I remember as a kid. We have amazing snow cover this year. Probably close to 4 feet

    Bookmark   January 20, 2014 at 10:43AM
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poaky1

My zone 7 rated Live oak "late drop" are still hanging on in several (2 or 3) below zero nights and very cold daytimes, so far. We are possibly going to go into -12F soon. This will be zone 5 temps. It may not go that low, but is forecasted to do so. My "late drops' have still got nice buds and still are holding their tannish, burgundy leaves. I am hoping they keep healthy buds til spring, and do great next growing season. Hope that isn't too much to ask.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2014 at 11:01PM
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poaky1

How are others faring this winter? I am excited about my Live oaks not dying and defoliating yet, but, how are other folks in zone 5,6,7 doing? It will be BRUTAL for the next 7 or8 days at least.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2014 at 11:37PM
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famartin(z5 NE NV)

Redwood (Sequoia sempervirens) in NJ has been through multiple days with highs below 20 and lows below 10. Coldest night had a low of -1, coldest day had a high of 11. Its foliage is a bit tinged but still mostly green, but really it won't be til after we're out of the deep freeze before I will have a sense of what damage may have occurred.

    Bookmark   January 25, 2014 at 5:06AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

I won't be able to tell until late April and May. However I've observed burning on many pines for example P. parviflora and bosnian pine. Doesn't mean the buds are cashed though.

My main concern is root damage. Snow cover just blows (pun?) because of how windy its been. I can see the damn mulch in several areas of my yard.

Here are Dec and Jan zero or below zero temps. Granted these will be put into two different years but we average 9 days below zero. We're at 25 and still have the entire month of Feb and even March for that matter to go. Generally speaking most of these lows are 20-30 degrees lower than average. Its been sunny and windy on these days too boot.

PNW here I come!

0
-4
-8
-6
-5
-2
-7
-10
-13
-1
-7
-14
-8
-18
-17
-9
-14
-6
-4
-4
-6
-9
-20
-14
-5

    Bookmark   January 25, 2014 at 8:43AM
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famartin(z5 NE NV)

> Here are Dec and Jan zero or below zero temps. Granted
> these will be put into two different years but we average 9
> days below zero. We're at 25 and still have the entire month
> of Feb and even March for that matter to go.

No that's alright to do that. Since you can run the cold season July 1 to June 30, its really identical to the January 1 to December 31 average.

    Bookmark   January 25, 2014 at 11:18AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Farm, looks like you're right...low and behold I see an article on the front page that with the upcoming forecast this week, Milwaukee will see the most sub zero days since the winter of 80-81'.

    Bookmark   January 25, 2014 at 10:20PM
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poaky1

Still getting slammed here in Pa with some bellow zero's and singles and a few teens and twenties. This is cold we haven't seen for 30 years. I think my Live oaks are ok, the foliage is still on amazingly, the evergreen Mags are still foliated.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2014 at 5:56PM
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joeinmo 6b-7a

Poaky,

If they can survive this, they can survive anything.
My live oaks have their leaves on too.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2014 at 6:37PM
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arktrees(6b NW Arkansas)

Joe,
Good to hear yours are holding up. I don't know exactly what you have been getting, but I have been -3 to -6 a number of times. Everything seems to be OK, but beginning to wonder if the Oklahoma redbud flowers will be toasted this year. Funny thing is with it being subzero and single digits about a third of the nights, we still have lots of bulbs poking their heads us. Strange.

Arktrees

    Bookmark   January 28, 2014 at 11:19PM
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joeinmo 6b-7a

Arktrees,

been pretty lucky, 8 degrees low on the 28th and 10 tonight (29th), no below zero except those 2 nights a few weeks ago with the arctic jet moving south, and then for only a few hours per night.

Hopefully this is it as a huge jet stream split is suppose to occur and we are suppose to be on the warm half.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2014 at 2:02AM
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arktrees(6b NW Arkansas)

Joe,
I may be wrong, but I don't believe we are done yet with the winter weather. It will probable get less cold, but there still seems to be plenty of hints of continuing north flow in the long range models. Of course those are subject to change. I know most everyone in the east is tired of the cold. Not much you can do about it???

Hate to say it, but 10-15 is not feeling that bad any more. Was 10 at my house last night by 8PM. Ended up at a steady 1 for several hours overnight. The temp CRASHES due to being in a valley, when the sun goes down in winter. Sometimes temp will fall 5-8 degrees in 15 minutes.

Arktrees

    Bookmark   January 29, 2014 at 8:29AM
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beng(z6 western MD)

0F again here. This is not dissimilar to Jan 1977 -- endless clippers out of the Canadian arctic w/little precip (all snow). Also drought in the west and Alaska mild. Nasty pattern & in 1977 led to dry weather thru the entire yr.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2014 at 8:47AM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

Good point, beng. That was a few months before I was born, but I've read about it.

I'm really hoping it's not a dry summer though...it seems the last 5 years, even when we've had sufficient annual precip, we always have a long, bone-dry period in summer (not necessarily a full on drought).

    Bookmark   January 29, 2014 at 9:09AM
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beng(z6 western MD)

The cold continues unabated. Takes a while to load/run:

Here is a link that might be useful: Next 2 weeks NA forecast

    Bookmark   January 29, 2014 at 11:00AM
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poaky1

We are finally warming up pretty good. Twenties, thirties and (gasp) some 40's. We have gone -9 about 3 times, but I think -9 was the worst in my yard. I saw some ornamentals at my doctors office with plump buds, and one of m y rhodies has a tiny one inch flush of new growth, and plumped buds. One live oak has let go of some top leaves, maybe about 8, and the buds are bigger than the "still leaved" ones, but not quite plumped, maybe just more visible with no leaves. The Live oak buds wouldn't have me worried if it weren't for the Rhody3 ft away having growth and fat buds. I am hoping I am wrong about those buds, we haven't warmed enough for that to really happen, it's still dark by 6:45 PM.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2014 at 7:51PM
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poaky1

I noticed that my Magnolia grandifolia has brown under the leaves, and last year they were green. The tops are still green though. I bought the Bracken's BB, to get the brown undersides, and now I see the wild EG Mag has it now.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2014 at 8:46PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Out of the last 117 winters, there are only 11 winters colder than this one thus far.

Lets see what Feb brings us. Not a good start...a sampling of the next 10 days.

1, -7, -8, -5, -2, 0

42 days of sub zero weather is the all time record.

We'll be at 28 after the forecast above.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2014 at 8:51PM
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ilovemytrees(5b/6a Western, NY)

Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow this morning, so we have six more weeks of this!

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 8:32AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

I hope you didn't putting any stock into Farmer's Almanac and Phil's accuracy, lol.

FA = 50% correct (generally speaking)
Phil = 39% correct

I predict spring comes early since winter rolled in so early. How is that for a coin flip!

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 10:05AM
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famartin(z5 NE NV)

Getting a little OT here, but they aren't exactly truthful with whether he saw his shadow or not. I went one year and it wasn't sunny, but they said he saw his shadow. I was like, "huh???"

Climatologically speaking, he would probably not see his shadow most of the time since that part of Pennsylvania is cloud most of the winter. So I guess they have to fib a little to make it interesting.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 10:15AM
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wisconsitom

The thing about whether "groundhogs" see their shadows or not that I find most amusing/pointless....take your pick, is that here in sconnie, there's always at least 6 weeks of winter weather at this point. It would be a magically early spring if that weren't so....just as predictions from sources like FA, etc. are also completely useless, in that they ascribe a certain prediction to a much too-large geographic area to have any meaning. Complete and utter bunk.

+oM

    Bookmark   February 2, 2014 at 5:59PM
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rogerzone6

Keeping fingers crossed that our fall 2013 planted Deodar Cedar Aurea and Dynamite Crepes, planted 3 years ago make it. the CM's have a western exposure, the Cedar is Northeast.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2014 at 11:17AM
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poaky1

Our temps aren't too bad now, but we are getting snow dumped on us pretty good. I don't mind that as much as the arctic cold crap. We had it in the fifties last weekend.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2014 at 7:55PM
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jqpublic(7b/8a Wake County NC)

Poaky1, did you all fair well with that ice storm last week, or did it miss ya?

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 1:05AM
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rogerzone6

Update to my earlier post re the Deodar Cedar. Not looking too good. More pronounced on the top half. If it had to happen might as well be in its first year planted.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 7:55AM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

Deodars can sometimes lose most or all needles and recover, however, being newly planted makes that less likely.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 8:13AM
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smivies

If it's any consolation on the Cedrus front...my stenocoma and Karl Fuchs look awesome right now. No needle burn at all. My hollies (I. pedunculosa & opaca) have slight leaf damage but my 7 year old M. bealei is in rough shape.

For context, we have not had a day above 32F since the 1st week of January and have had multiple windy nights with lows of -15F. Lots of snow is (fortunately) keeping all the roots well insulated.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:16AM
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j0nd03

"Deodars can sometimes lose most or all needles and recover, however, being newly planted makes that less likely."

I sure hope this is the case with my Cream Puff. It lost many of its needles by the end of the growing season and lost the remaining needles this winter. I have left it planted to see what happens with it this spring. I should have given it shade cloth last year to protect from intense afternoon sun. I won't make that mistake again.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:25AM
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poaky1

Jonqpublic, and anyone else. We had lots of snow and cold, I didn't see a lot of ice on things, but I would say it was freezing temps sometimes, but then one day we had it slushy for one afternoon before the evening froze it all again. Today, I took pics of my 2 older Live oaks, the 2 year olds that I posted above. My most borderline plus some, plants. The bigger one has brown leaves, but they are still attached. The second tree has it's leaves still, and they are less brown, but still pretty ugly. I am happy they have done as good as they have in this horrible and NOT OVER winter. I took the second pic from the porch with the zoom, but with the snow you can see it good enough. After today we will be getting single digits at night and 20's in the day for the next 3 days/nights. Then 20's and 30's after . I would say this winter makes me say zone 6 is fine for these Live oak "late drop". If they last the rest of the winter, which I think they will.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 7:05PM
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