new gas line not taking gas

Amadauss1April 22, 2013

Briggs and stratton 19.5 Craftsman mower. Needed usual service so added new gas filter and because line looked bad replaced it. I drained the gas tank by syphoning it out. Changed the hose and filled the tank 2/3rds filled. No gas is running in the line. Do I need to use a plunger or something similar to force gas into the line? I thought gravity was the way it was being supplied to engine, correct. Model No 917.270821
Thanks for any help.

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krnuttle

Just create a vacuum on the filter end to pull the gas into the line. In the days before political correctness I would have suggested put the line in your mouth and suck on it until you feel the gas moving, but today you will have to find a suction bulb, or some thing similar.

What you basically want to do is siphon some of the gas from the tank.

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 12:14PM
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rcbe(6)

cuppla things - if fuel tank is under the seat, will take a bit of cranking for fuel pump to pump lines, filter and carb back full of fuel. Also make sure you installed fuel filter back in the correct direction. and if Kohler engine,OEM filter used.

Then remove fuel supply line at carb body. Have assistant crank engine while you are carefully holding fuel hose end into container. look for good flow of fuel. If Ok, prob is dirty carb., if not OK, blow out fuel hose to remove any crud, recheck filter and fuel pump.
Post back with results.... :)

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 12:22PM
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Amadauss1

Just a follow up, I took a suction hand pump and took the line off where it connects to carb and tried to pull gas through the line and it came through, with filter on, right up the line no problem so I have no blockage as much as I can tell. Does the line have to primed or given some type of push to get gas to flow? Was going to take a plunger and put it over the tank opening and plunge a little bit to see if I can push gas up through to start it that way. On my gas cap I see no vent hole or anything like that. Thanks

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 12:24PM
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mownie(7)

Your engine is a 42E707 Briggs. That engine uses a fuel pump (integral to the carburetor) to move the fuel.
Even though you might think the tractor has a "gravity feed" fuel system, this one would only fit the description when the tank was nearly full of fuel,
At any rate, even a full gravity feed system will not fill the hoses after replacing a fuel filter until some fuel has been depleted (by running the engine) from the carb bowl and the needle valve opens.
And if you think that a clear fuel filter should "appear full", no it will not. And that phenomenon has been discussed ad nauseum in the forum and I don't want to re-open that debate here. Suffice it to be said that GASOLINE fuel filters will not appear to be full of fuel and that is completely normal.
Now, if you can't get the engine to run (before or after you messed with the fuel system) please tell us THAT and we can go from there.

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 12:26PM
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Amadauss1

Thanks so much for the responses. After going through the gas suggestions went to start it and now have another issue. I did charge the battery. I changed the plugs (2) and both the connections to them seemed a little dirty like rust had gotten into them. Here is a pic of one of the plug tops showing some dirt accumulated.
I did a video of the noise it is making when trying to start. Not the normal crank noise but a whine. Is there a way to clean those connections to the plugs or should they be replaced. I seem to remember this noise in the past and I thought weak battery and charged it and it started but I did charge it already. Only had it on charger for about 4 hours. Hope all this helps and thanks again.

Here is a link that might be useful: 2013-04-22_12-33-21_455

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 1:07PM
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Amadauss1

Mownie, thanks, looked in book and that is the engine. On the fuel filter, was not thinking along your thoughts of it being filled so should work. Just pointing out I replaced it and gas is flowing through it. It is white in color so cannot see inside it. Based it working ok by getting fuel to the end of hose that goes into carb when I used suction. Thanks.

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 1:15PM
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mownie(7)

Where/how do you store this machine?
The stuff on the spark plug end is corrosion and rust.
The presence of that suggests the machine is stored in a wet or semi-wet environment......or at least an area of high humidity.
I hope the plug shown is one that you replaced (with new ones).
The noise I am hearing in the video sounds like the starter drive is not engaging to the flywheel.
That could be due to a defective starter drive (aka "Bendix") or possibly that the battery has been installed backward (reversed polarity) causing the starter to motorized in the opposite direction (spinning backward).

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 1:20PM
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Amadauss1

mownie, thanks for response. Store it in a ventilated shed which has no heat. Put it there and it sits over the winter. Live in Pa so definitely have the water and cold build up. Will check the battery now and hope that is the case (easy fix) but don't think so. Put new plugs in, that pic is the old ones. Is it difficult to get to the starter drive? Thank you.

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 1:37PM
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Amadauss1

Just checked the battery and installed correctly. although I think my son had changed the battery for me last year and not sure if he got the right one for replacement. He installed it and it worked so thought all is ok. Would a weaker battery cause this issue?

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 1:43PM
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rcbe(6)

has this machine been washed down with a hose or power washer last fall or early this spring?

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 4:33PM
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Amadauss1

My son could have done this, yes. We were power washing the house and the tractor was near when power washing. I do remember that it made that noise I posted in the past and I put the battery charger on for a while and it started up late last year. The battery is only 2 years old. I will say it has not been taken care of the way I normally do with other things. My son's job this past year and he did not do a great job with it.

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 7:12PM
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rcbe(6)

not too many yrs ago i trashed a starter by letting my gdaughter get wild with a garden hose... it's easy to do. Lawn tractors are not designed or built to withstand such - one can expect all sort of elect problems as time goes by. hopefully you can free up that bendix with mownie's help. good luck. But, use compressed air or a leaf blower to keep machine clean - less trouble.

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 10:13PM
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Amadauss1

Mownie, so what I should do next is start taking the flywheel off at the top and work my way down cleaning up whatever I find. Looks kind of dirty there. I can start taking some things off and post pics of what I find. Would that be a good start? thanks

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 7:50AM
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bill_kapaun

On page 54 of the owners manual, it shows the starter drive.
OFTEN, the helical part will get gummed up and not allow the gear to "spiral up" and engage the flywheel.
Clean the drive.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 12:48PM
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mownie(7)

Well, you don't need to remove the flywheel to service the starter.Removing the flywheel opens a new can of worms in terms of troubles and precautions.
Do you have a service manual on this engine?
If not, e-mail me for a copy. You did know there is a way to put your e-mail in your forum profile, didn't you?

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 12:56PM
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Amadauss1

Thanks for responses. I did take the cover off the front and thought if I got some pics, it might help all of you better diagnose the problem. My guess is the small wheel with the teeth moves up to spin the larger one (flywheel?). When I was trtying to start it, I was not getting that fan on the top spinning at all. Should the teeth look like that? From the rust showing I guess my kid did wash it a little bit. What do you suggest to use to clean the starter drive? Thanks!

This post was edited by Amadauss1 on Tue, Apr 23, 13 at 15:58

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 3:53PM
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Amadauss1

And yes I do have the manual. Thanks

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 3:54PM
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Amadauss1

I am looking at page 54 on manual. It shows several box's listed as 510 309 227 222. Sorry do not understand fully, but what whould I clean on these pictures. Thanks

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 4:07PM
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Amadauss1

I cleaned up at the small wheel which my guess is the starter which is encased in the round black tube. I used some WD40 and after wiping it the teeth on it dropped to expose the spring above. Here is a pic. The fly wheel I was able to move but the smaller wheel with teeth would move but not a continuous turning as it where. I guess that raises up during the starting process and its teeth go between the teeth of the fly wheel to propel the whole thing. Was wondering as it is now, could I try and start it again? Without putting all the covers on.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 5:38PM
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mownie(7)

****"Do you have a service manual on this engine?"****
You notice I stated SERVICE MANUAL for the engine.
I am not referring to the Sears document.
But anyhow, your starter drive (aka Bendix) gear teeth are completely worn/sheared off.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 12:24AM
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Amadauss1

I was thinking just the regular manual, no I do not have the service manual. Sorry about confusion. So I need to get the Bendix and replace it. You mentioned you might have the service manual. I checked the button to display my email. If you could send it or let me know where I could get one, would ber great. thanks very much for your help. Have a sears parts place close by so will get one there.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 8:32AM
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Amadauss1

Just found this video on how to take apart the gear on the starter. I also have the C ring holding it in place so a pain in ther a**, even for the guy in the video. Does help explain some things though. I posted a link to the video.

Here is a link that might be useful: fix starter

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 11:44AM
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mownie(7)

I do prefer to use "Jen yoo wine" Briggs parts.
An easy way for me to push the circlip ring on is to find a flat washer that "just fits" over the starter shaft very snug,
Then place the circlip against the end of the shaft and press the circlip on using the washer to push it with.
It is not good to try and force the circlip to go into the groove from the side (like the actor in the video was trying to do at first).
That can "spread" the circlip causing it not to grip the groove as tightly as it needs to to remain in place.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 12:19PM
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Amadauss1

Thanks for the help mownie with how to put that clip back on. Have the new part and now the problem is getting over the flywheel on to the starter. Came off easy because teeth were all gone, but now the gear will not go on with flywheel there. I was hoping a trick to getting it on because the two bolts needed to take off starter , one is directly below the flywheel. And my other concern although I guess it worked before is the starter gear is plastic and mvoing or rotating that flywheel is not easy. Will those plastic teeth just break off again? Should I take the flywheel off to clean it up if needed and lube it a bit?

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 4:34PM
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rustyj14(W/PA)

Don't remove the flywheel! Some careful work with a box or end wrench, and some careful work, and you can access the two bolts that hold the starter bracket onto the engine. And then remove the starter. BT/DT! Rusty Jones

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 8:25PM
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Amadauss1

Thanks for response. If you look at my second pic on the thread it shows the outside bolt and then the other is buried inside. I did try to take that one off and had it up fairly high and out but not all the way. I was fearful of it getting stuck in the underside of the flywheel somehow because of the openings there and then not being able to get it back on. Will follow your advice and work at in the morning. Thanks.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 10:39PM
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Amadauss1

Success!!!!! Rustyj14, I was all set to get on line here and post no way to getting that bolt up high enough. I did not think it could be done but was able to get it up enough to pull the starter out enough to get the gear on. Thanks for telling me not to take that fly wheel off. Mownie, I ended up using a socket, 10MM which fit perfectly over the top of that part to get that little C piece to snap into place. Put the socket over it and gave it a few taps and it fell right into place. Started right up. Now the next issue, ran it for a while and got a cut in but by the time I was done it was starting to miss and chugging along. I do have an oil leak somewhere that I have to find and I am also going to change both belts. Bought a Carb repair kit also. Where would you check first for an oil leak? Also put the new plugs in but did not replace the spark plug covers. Was going to clean them out with Brake cleaner. Any thoughts appreciated.
Mike

    Bookmark   April 25, 2013 at 5:40PM
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rcbe(6)

Make sure that air vent in tractor fuel tank cap is not blocked.... use a small dia stiff brass wire to probe vent and blow out with compressed air to clear...

    Bookmark   April 25, 2013 at 8:04PM
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Amadauss1

Just a quick question on the air vent for the gas cap. It seems that the top piece of the cap is very small but has a very tiny hole on both sides of it which would seem to be an air vent. That was blocked with dirt. Never realized they put air vents on the gas caps. If you know my tractor an I correct it thinking that is the air vent for the cap?

    Bookmark   April 27, 2013 at 3:17PM
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rcbe(6)

sounds like it. To mke sure, just leave tank cap slightly ajar (careful on fuel spills !!) and run for a while. If engine runs smooth, then either fix cap or replace.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2013 at 6:26PM
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rustyj14(W/PA)

Say, don't feel bad about that hole in the gas cap. When i first started working/running these powered mowers, etc. a clogged breather hole in a gas cap made me think i was going crazy! Some guy gave me his old lawn tractor. he kept it in a shack, not very well protected from the weather. I got it started, but it only ran a few minutes, and it quit. I removed the gas cap. looked in, and saw 4 inches of gas in tank. So, i started it again, and the same thing happened. After 6 or 7 peerings into the tank, it finally dawned on me about the breather hole! Opened it up, and it solved the problem of short run time! Every time it stalled, and me opening the cap, allowed fuel to run into the carb, and let it run, until it built up another vacuum, and stalled out. I am still using that old Wheel-horse lawn tractor! RJ

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 10:51PM
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