Can this rose be saved?

jennypat Zone 3b NW MN(Zone 3b NW MN)May 26, 2013

This rose called "Bonica" planted in 2011, was beautiful last year. BUT this spring it looks like it might not make it. My soil shrunk away from the root, and yes it was mulched heavily with leaves over the winter. I have not pruned off the dead wood yet, I wanted to see what grew first.
As you can see in the picture it is still alive, but what should I do to save it?

Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lola-lemon(5b East WA)

Living in zone 3 with the graft above soil --- I think she's done pretty well!
You've got green growth there- so it's alive. I think you have at least 3 healthy canes, maybe a fourth.
just cut those dark canes down till the inside of the cane looks white again. I am sure you can google this for examples.
You don't have to prune it all the way down, if you are worried about your skills, but it won't grow from the freeze damaged part.

You might try planting the rose again, (getting as much root as you can) with the graft 4 or 5 inches below the soil line. And then still mulch your canes.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 4:24PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jennypat Zone 3b NW MN(Zone 3b NW MN)

Thank you, believe it or not, when I originally planted the rose the graft WAS just below soil level. It was a new bed and had done a lot of settling. I was very surprised to see how much settling!

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 4:49PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jennypat Zone 3b NW MN(Zone 3b NW MN)

I just went out and looked again, that graft is at least 1 maybe 2 inches above the soil, do you think it would be best if I dug it and planted it deeper? I guess I had always thought the graft was supposed to be "at" the soil line, not below.

The only other roses I have grown have been shrub roses, they die back every year almost to the ground and grow from below ground. I should say that's how they usually grow, this year I have one that has two 5' tall canes that are growing.....never had that before! I mulch them every year, and never prune until they sprout in the spring and I can clearly see what survived the winter.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 5:06PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Patty W. zone 5a Illinois

Here's the best help I can please forgive me if thoughts get out of order. Even in my zone the graft must be at least 5" below ground to survive. Sadly the grafting on your rose has died. It will still put out small growth on what energy was sill in that cane. Any shoots that appear from underground will come will be from what is called the scion(sp) or simply the roots your rose was grafted onto.
If grafted onto multiflora you would do will to dig up as multiflora can be quiet invasive. and is the host plant for Rose Rosette Disease. It is the favorite Rose for the mite that causes RRD.
When trimming roses in spring trim until you see that the cane is apple green inside. While you might still have growth it will not be healthy later. As that cane will not be able to take up nutrients.
There are other roots which roses are grafted onto like Dr. Heuy and others the names I can't remember at the moment but none will be the pretty rose that you purchased. I only plant own root roses that are hardy for my area or colder. Don't give up roses can be beautiful and very easy to grow. You just need more information.
If your interested I'd be happy to look up some sites for you. Sorry about your Rose.

    Bookmark   May 28, 2013 at 10:15AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jennypat Zone 3b NW MN(Zone 3b NW MN)

Patty, thank you for all the information. Sounds like it is to late for this rose. But I do have a new one I received for mothers day, and I now know to dig it back up, and bury it deeper!

This might explain why I have been having trouble growing roses! I do have some that are doing well, but I have now lost 3 or 4 of them in the past few years. All newly planted that don't make it through the winter.

    Bookmark   May 28, 2013 at 12:09PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Patty W. zone 5a Illinois

I should have added that when trimming in spring if inside is tan or brown keep cutting until you find apple green. Even if you have to cut to the crown. It will grow back as long as the graft survives. So even if cane is still green on the outside if inside is brown it can't take up nutrients. When cutting dab some regular elmers glue on any cane thats pencil thick or thicker. This keeps cane bores from entering cane. If you ever seen holes in the end of trimmed bushes their made from bores digging in to lay eggs.

    Bookmark   May 28, 2013 at 1:39PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jennypat Zone 3b NW MN(Zone 3b NW MN)

OH crud I noticed a hollow cane the other day, just didn't have time to look into it. I guess I need to get out there and remove the rest of the cane!

    Bookmark   May 28, 2013 at 1:46PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Patty W. zone 5a Illinois

Just trim until there's no more hole and cane will be fine. Then seal it so no more can enter.

    Bookmark   May 28, 2013 at 1:56PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lola-lemon(5b East WA)

Your rose is FINE!! Your new growth is coming from 3 of the green basals. Dont' throw it out. Let it go and see what it can do. Roses are really tough.
That is not rootstock growth because it is coming off your last years BASALS!

I have tons of roses with their grafts above ground in zone 5 and I never have any die.
and I have grown roses in zone 4 and 3 with the graft above that have made it. It's always interesting to see what is alive each spring. (If you have decent snow cover, you will probably be better off than others. ) If you want to grow hybrid teas, I would consider this acceptable, because you won't be getting much better, IMHO.

At any rate-- this Bonica here is is growing! Just replant her in the fall with the graft below ground. 5 or 6 inches is plenty. She may still die one year, but this year she is alive. ( I have new bareroots I paid big money for that have barely that much viable cane. )
You could do the MInnesota tip with her in the fall--- but Bonica is such a cheap and easy rose to buy, I honestly wouldn't personally bother redigging her cuz I am lazy. but What is the harm in letting her go a month and seeing if I am right? Be patient.

If you need more reassurance- post this on the rose forum and they will tell you what to do!!

Oh- I agree with the glueing of the canes. The holes are generally drilled by leaf cutting wasps (the one's that make what look like hole puncher holes in your leaves) but sometimes it can be a raspberry cane borer. Since your pruning cuts are so near the graft, you can't afford to have the wasp drill down far enough to end up in your graft. (happened to me last year).

This post was edited by lola-lemon on Wed, May 29, 13 at 0:11

    Bookmark   May 28, 2013 at 11:51PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lola-lemon(5b East WA)

Bonica is a tough rose. Mine has survived 2 winters in a medium sized pot outside with ZERO protection. She's wind protected by location- but that is it. She barely even has any soil around her. (keep meaning to plant her.....)
She's rated good to zone 4.
If you plant her deeply, over time she will possibly grow her own roots in time and develop much larger.

In the future I recommend you try buying own root roses. Northland Rosarium carries them.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2013 at 12:06AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jennypat Zone 3b NW MN(Zone 3b NW MN)

Thank you Lola, that is good news, I know the Minnesota tip method, but never do it! My business is really busy in the fall and I never have time. OR remember do it! I do put a cage around them and fill it with oak leaves, which i have in abundance.....most years, last year I didn't get it done. That will teach me!! The area these are in usually gets good snow cover, but last year while the rest of the state was buried in snow, we got very little.

I did dig down under the Bonica without digging her up totally and managed to bury her about 2" down. Hopefully that will help.

I have a second rose with the same problem, "Nearly Wild"

I DID dig up the new one "Hope for Humanity" that I planted mothers day, and buried her deeper.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2013 at 12:19AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lola-lemon(5b East WA)

The mulch you are using will protect your roses from sun scald and wind which is really important. You might try mounding a bit of added dirt and mulch at the base, before you put the cage on -just to give it a bit more solid protection to assure that the scion lives. (that's the rose you want, not the roots). Don't forget to water your roses into the fall so they are healthy and not stressed going into winter.

Have you looked at some of the Morden roses? or Bucks? There are some nice rebloomers that are hardy.
And there are also some David Austins (English) that people in your climate have good luck with -- like Princess Alexandra of Kent, Brother Cadfael, jude the Obscure, St. cecilia and Gertrude Jekyll that (all are rated to 4) (Gertrude Jekyll has an annoying shape in my climate, but might be really nice frozen back to a neat stump each year).

OH boy! I hear you on running out of time to bury your roses. That's why I still have so many grafted that aren't buried yet. I just HATE digging holes. That's another reason I love own root roses.

Well best of luck with your roses.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2013 at 1:18AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jennypat Zone 3b NW MN(Zone 3b NW MN)

OH I have 2 Morden roses, one is more than 20 years old, I moved it from my previous home to this one, when we moved in 20 years ago this summer. The other my Father in Law received on his retirement, but they didn't have anywhere to plant it so he gave it to me. That has to be at least 15 maybe 18 years ago.

I also have an old rose called Victorian Memory, planted in 2007, that is doing fine.

BUT I have lost a few too, and I am thinking now that I am not planting them deep enough. I even lost a Morden Sunset 2 years ago, it came back one year, but not the second.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2013 at 1:34AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

i dont have time to read all the other replies..

but in my rose days.. all that brown damaged wood above the sprouts is damaged..

i would have trimmed that plant down to 1/2 inch above those buds.. and been done with it ...

by reducing all the above plant.. all the power form the roots will be forced into those buds ... and it has the potential to be 8 feet tall by fall.. depending on variety ....


    Bookmark   May 29, 2013 at 8:44AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Patty W. zone 5a Illinois

Okay, perhaps I stand corrected. I am thou positive that grafts don't survive above ground in zone 3 if however there was a lot of mulch covering the graft (maybe). In the future If you bury the graft a hardy rose like bonica will start to put out it's own roots doubling your chance of having a long lived rose. While most grafts have about a ten year life span. Own root Bonica can out live most of us. Anyway when you cut back that cane you will know by the center of that plith how healthy it is. My apologies
for not mentioning this first. Good luck

    Bookmark   May 29, 2013 at 9:34AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
lola-lemon(5b East WA)

I bought Morden Sunset for my mother for her zone 3 garden. When she moved she took it with her as a container rose in zone 4. They always had good snow cover though.... still those 5 to 10 nights a year that it gets down to about 30 below are going to be brutal for some roses.
Victorian Memory (aka Isabella Skinner)- I've heard much about this rose. Does she climb for you? How far down do you need to prune?
Every so often someone wants a cold hardy climber and there is much discussion as to wether she can really climb in such cold climates. (She's a rebloomer!)

It sounds like you have done very well with your roses in zone 3!

    Bookmark   May 29, 2013 at 1:57PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jennypat Zone 3b NW MN(Zone 3b NW MN)

My Victorian Memory might climb, I am not sure, I have never really tried to get her to do it. I do have to say that most years the most of the canes freeze out. I just trimmed her yesterday, there are only 2 canes that would be long enough to consider training. And of course they are on the wrong side, away from the tower. I usually mulch her too, but I don't get the tall canes! This last winter she suffered from a lot of rodent damage, which could be another reason they died.

I have to say though I love that rose! The scent is awesome, I just wish I had planted her in an area that was easier to access to smell her! I am going experiment this summer, and see if I can propagate some cuttings from her.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2013 at 2:48PM
Sign Up to comment
More Discussions
Border Patrol Plants
Border Patrol Plants: those small, front-of-the-border...
christinmk z5b eastern WA
Plant of the Year
FWIW I see The Perennial Plant Association membership...
Achillea sun requirements
I planted a couple of these last year and they were...
DandyLioness (CA 9, SZ 14)
Hey, I just remember I have...
globeflower! Totally forgot I have these, I was typing...
liatris bulbs
I just bought bulbs. Can I start them in a pot now...
People viewed this after searching for:
© 2015 Houzz Inc. Houzz® The new way to design your home™