The descriptions in Vintage's catalog always sounded so intriguing--blended colors, fragrant. But they never seemed to be available--hard to propagate?
What have you grown & do you like them?
Most were what were called "Pernetianas", descended from Pernet's Soliel d'Or. J.H. Nicholas called the "class", "Thirty minute roses" because they traditionally fade in about that length of time in brilliant sun and heat. Many had faint fragrances, but there have been a few with rather intense scents. Many had sparse foliage compared to others of their vintage and, in general, where black spot pressure was high, many were seriously afflicted.
But, when they were just right, they could be spectacular. Yes, some are real witches to propagate and most are significantly better budded. Which, in particular, caught your attention? Kim
"Thirty minute roses". Ha! well, they still sound intriguing, especially Catalonia:
Catalonia: "Very large, broad, reflexing & crown-like blossoms intensely colored with terracotta-orange & yellow petal bases, the flowers gradually transform to a smoky-carmine with purple highlights..."
Duquesa de Penaranda--"shades of orange & cantaloupe with an irresistible fruity scent. One of the greats among the unique introductions of Pedro Dot"
Girona--"One of Dot's color wonders. An elegant mix of soft red & rich yellow & all the imaginable blends of the two.."
I had these marked in the catalog for years but they never came up. I guessed the foetida heritage made them big-time blackspotters & the muddling of colors wasn't popular, but I thought they sounded neat. And I haven't ever had a Dot rose.
i've got Duquesa de Penaranda from Vintage. Beautiful, beautiful flowers -- not so bad in a heat wave as some of this type. However, it is no ball-of-fire on its own roots. It's been making slow and steady growth during the two years I have had it, but I'm still looking forward to the day it is 2' tall :-).
'Duquesa de PeÃÂ±aranda', 'Condesa de SÃÂ¡stago' and 'Ibiza' (all Pedro Dot HTs) were in my first custom order from Vintage w-a-y back when. CdS was the best of the three for me, but even it began to grow backwards after a few seasons. I suspect that growing HTs on their own roots is a concept that Pedro Dot would never even have contemplated.
Two of his roses that do thrive on their own roots are the shrub 'Nevada', and the ever-popular climber 'Madame GrÃÂ©goire Staechelin'. I've often admired those two, but have not grown either of them.
Pedro Dot's son, Simon, was also an accomplished breeder. The only one of his roses I have experience with is the beautiful lavender HT (FL?) 'Lila Vidri'. It's in its second season here, looks promising, but the jury's still out.
Well, that explains a lot - I'm glad you asked this question! I've had Dot roses in my gardens for a few years now, but I never stopped to check on the progress of them as a group. Turns out they're almost all failures in my yard so far on their own roots, mostly for not overwintering, and in a few cases for general wimp factors as follows:
Condesa de Sastago & Girona - didn't overwinter
Ibiza - limped through one winter then faded after putting out a few leaves in spring
Tarde Gris - didn't even survive the summer last year (grafted)
Lila Vidri - planted last year and has put out a few leaves this spring but doesn't look like it'll sustain that growth
Planted this spring, own roots:
Maybe it's a good thing I let Intermezzo bloom when it arrived in its band pot with a bud already forming. It may be the only bloom I ever see from that one. Good to know it's not just me having difficulty with these roses. I love the color mixes, but they may be a bit too fussy even for my zone pushing tendencies. Kim as always - thanks for making the inexplicable clear and sensible.
You're welcome Cynthia. Nope, Dot probably never thought of rooting roses other than his minis. Kim
For wild color on a relatively hardy, free-blooming plant, people might consider trying 'Granada' in gardens where the Dots don't thrive. It is super-fragrant, too. (High susceptibility to mildew, probably not a significant negative in the East, South, and Midwest.)
I put out a 1 1/2 gal Granada this year and it is growing like crazy. She has even managed to stay clean with all the black spot I have. I know ya'll say no blooming the first year but I let one bud open and it is an attention getter! I was good and pinched the rest of them off but I just had to see one.
Does anyone where I could obtain Lila Vidri (Leila Verde), Intermezzo, or Trade Gris? Yes, I know they are Rare & obscure. I like that. I signed up on a waiting list for Vidri on the Rogue Valley Roses website. I do not know if they ever carried it. I was never a Vintage customer. Got into this addiction late -
I have a handful of them. Some haven't grown or done a whole lot so far. Most came from Vintage Gardens.
CATALONIA has been pretty the last few yrs. Finally doing something.
CONDESA DE SASTAGO is also very nice, but a bit stingy maybe.
DUQUESA DE PANARANDA is in a pot and does ok. Blows pretty fast.
FEDERICO CASAS is one I really like. It has some interesting petals and coloring. Does blow pretty fast tho.
GIRONA only bloomed for me a few yrs ago when it was a tiny own-root in a one gal pot. Once I planted it in the ground, it quit blooming. Probably crappy soil there.
INTERMEZZO I got a couple yrs ago, and it's in a ceramic pot, doing ok.
LILA VIDRI/LEILA VERDE is my favorite. Beautiful lavender blooms that smell pretty good and repeat fairly decently.
TARDE GRIS is a really lovely lavender too. Maybe not as good a bloomer as LILA.
I got Lila Vidri as Leila Verde back in the day from Arena. I have two original grafted ones from Arena, and have made many own-root cuttings of it over the years, most of which I've given away to friends. It roots pretty easily, and does very well as an own-root plant. Truly spectacular fragrance (I specialize in fragrant roses), with excellent form that lasts well. Great color too. Sort of a FL/HT blend. I am always amazed at why this rose isn't more available from our own-root nurseries. Dot roses may be 30 minute roses in general, but Lila/Leila isn't one of them. Worth finding.
Trade Gris reminds me of my Vol de Nuit (Night Flight).
I am the most interested in Lila Vidri. It seems like it was a short lived rose in commerce. Supply & demand?