was poetic about boxelder????

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5February 22, 2013

OK.. here's your nickle..

tell what you REALLY THINK OF THEM ...

how come they are never on the list of 'have to have' trees ..

up sides.. down sides ... etc

ken

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j0nd03

I love taking small branches and rubbing the leaves all over people that think it is poison ivy and then showing them the plant is benign by chewing a leaf myself. I'm sure the routine will get old someday, but for now, it still amuses me.

I only do this when I can locate samaras before taking a sample.

Apparently there are some pretty neat cultivars of this tree, but I have never been interested enough to buy one (influenced mostly by the people on this forum bashing the species so much). The pic attached is Acer negundo âÂÂSensationâ in spring coloration (Edit: that may be fall, it is a little hard to tell from the description). There are some neat variegated ones, too I think.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Pic is courtesy of JF Schmidt

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Fri, Feb 22, 13 at 12:02

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 11:54AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

I love taking small branches and rubbing the leaves all over people

==>> i bet you dont have many friends.. lol .. or do you do this at the mall????

GOD i hate typos in the title.. WAX..

ken

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 12:00PM
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j0nd03

"i bet you dont have many friends.. lol .. or do you do this at the mall?"

Just the people dumb enough to venture into the woods with me ;)

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 12:04PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

That's a fall shot of 'Sensation' and I have grown it for a few years in PNW USDA 8, where it has been less then sensational. One summer it got tar spot, one fall it was more orange than red - and not a bright orange. Cultivar originated as a wild roadside seedling that happened to be noticed and propagated before being destroyed by maintenance operations. Main claims are more compact, sturdy growth and red fall color. As photo above shows it does not necessarily blaze with color, even when it is red.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 12:20PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

how come they are never on the list of 'have to have' trees ..

They are generally ruderal (pioneer) species. Most of our treasured trees are not ruderal spp. because ruderals are fast growing and fast dying and usu don't care to repel pests because of their function in the ecosystem.

[edited for subject-object agreeance]

This post was edited by WxDano on Fri, Feb 22, 13 at 14:15

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 12:55PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

bookem dano...

you got my gold star for the day .... for teaching me the ONLY.. single .. thing i will learn.. lol

what are the other type of ruderal trees???

all the common 'fast growers'???

poplar.. aspen.. etc ... hmm.. i bet not maple..

so i will hesitate to guess.. not the hardwoods.. seem to think there is a word for that forest growth.. that i should remember from hiking trail signs.. ahhh.. CLIMAX FOREST ... i think i was ten when i first read that sign ....

all the sift stuff you dont want to burn.. lol ...

careful now.. i might learn something else ... lol

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: oh the flashbacks.. lol ...

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 1:16PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

One of only three maples I dislike.

Typically...
Poor fall color
Brittle branches
Poor form
Weedy

Without having any epxereicne with the cutlivars, the species should only be planted where other trees won't grow.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 1:43PM
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WxDano(5b-2a-6/7)

Ken, ruderal tree spp. are all the pioneers along riverbanks or after disturbance - willow, poplar, aspen, birch, etc. They stabilize soil and sometimes fix N, and then return carbon to the soil when they die as other plants take over in the succession cycle. Most maple comes in after the ruderals and Acer are a seral species.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 2:26PM
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corkball(4)

I am not a fan and I cut and pull any I see on my property. Sure they are messy and ugly and attact boxelder bugs, but it is mostly because there are so MANY around here.
I planted some in Florida when I lived there because they were unusual. In Canada, they call them Manitoba maples... they are not considered a nuisance because that is almost all they can grow up there... I would plant boxelder if my choice was, well, grass.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 4:43PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

>bookem dano...
you got my gold star for the day .... for teaching me the ONLY.. single .. thing i will learnNow Ken, don't be ruderal.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 5:58PM
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huggorm

I love them, but they are not native here so to me they are exotic. I like when trees are "weedy" and can survive without a alot of pampering.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 2:21AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

I was thinking weedy more on the lines of that they consistently grow where you don't want them to grow (or even invasive to a point) vs. synonymous with vigor or tough. There are plenty trees that don't require pampering that aren't weedy. Hopefully that makes sense.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 7:44AM
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Tn_Tree_Man(7A)

Ken,

I would say that because there are few positive attributes that come to mind regarding box-elder, they are not high on anyone's tree list! No spring flowering; no fall color (except for a couple of recently released cultivars); not very long lived. There are so many more desirable alternatives.

I suppose a couple of positives for box-elder might be: quick shade and low maintanence. Sorry, I'm out of ideas for this tree!

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 7:50AM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

The male clone grown as 'Violaceum' produces conspicuous bright pinkish hanging inflorescences that remain in color for a fair bit of time.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 2:25PM
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calliope(6)

I'm almost embarrassed to say I have seldom even given this tree a thought one way or another. They do have one characteristic I would consider positive, in that they provide valuable food source for some migratory birds, including one of my favs, the cedar waxwing. Many birds will feast on buds/seeds. In this household we are about as nerdy with birdlife as we are trees, and permit some real doozies to remain (including scrag trees) as food/habitat for wildlife.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 2:59PM
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wisconsitom

The species is just so........junky, I guess. Grows fast, sure, but none of that growth is really structurally sound, with big hunks of tree liable to fall off with little to no provocation. That and the sheer commonness, as somebody pointed out. Every old shed has twenty or thirty box elders growing right in the space between foundation and ground.

There was a box elder here in town growing right adjacent to a light pole, completely in concrete. Whatever start its seed got in the sidewalk crack, it went on from there, growing happily year after year. Got to give them props for toughness and uncomplaining nature! If there were only box elder trees, I'd be a big fan.

+oM

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 4:10PM
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j0nd03

Interesting all the aggressive reports from you guys. The ONLY place I have found any was in Barling, AR at a park on the Arkansas River. They are practically absent around my house and 30 miles to my west around my parents although they are native to the area. We have a ton of silver maples and a few red maples here and there but box elder is very uncommon.

In my head I am picturing them being as weedy as our winged elm which grow in concrete cracks, on rock bluffs with no soil, etc. I wonder what keeps box elder from being weedy around here? Summer heat or lack of rain in the summer?

John

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 4:52PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Riverside location typical for wild trees.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 9:47PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

ok.. thx..

i have one.. 45 to 60 feet tall..

its a maple.. what can i say ...

luckily.. for it.. its in a place where it doesnt bother me ...

its ugly .. the bugs cover the whole face of the polebarn and driveway for months.. though the kids find that interesting ...

it a twisted gnarly thing with no apparent inclination to grow 'pretty'.. like a tree that size should .. lol ...

no real storm damage issues ...

if i had the money.. it would be gone.. otherwise.. i am proud to say.. this maple can stay where it is..

FOR NOW.. lol

ken

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 8:00AM
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flora_uk(SW UK 8/9)

This one grows near me. I wonder how old it is?

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 10:22AM
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flora_uk(SW UK 8/9)

And here's what it is growing in.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 10:24AM
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j0nd03

And I believe what that tree has done is spelled - D-E-T-E-R-M-I-N-E-D

If the tree is otherwise healthy, why not remove that square of stone around the trunk to allow for expansion? Or are those sprouts coming from the base already? Flora, if the tree is in decline, what is the local ordnance on cutting that tree down? Is it protected under any law?

John

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 10:43AM
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flora_uk(SW UK 8/9)

The tree is healthy. It is certainly protected because it is over 3 inches in diameter at 5 feet. Anybody trying to fell it would have a fight on their hands. It's not mine to remove the paving from. When it raises the stones I dare say they will be altered by someone. Heaven knows where the roots go because, as you can see, it is bounded by a light well to a basement on one side and behind the mossy wall the ground falls away and there is a downward sloping path. So it can only really root in two directions.

These are the rules: Trees with a diameter in excess of 7.5cm (3 inches) measured 1.5 metres (5 feet) above ground level are protected by law, and 6 weeksâ written notice must be given before any tree work, not just felling, is undertaken. For trees being felled to aid the growth of others (i.e. thinning operations), the threshold diameter is10cm (4 inches).

Anybody hazard a guess at its age? I have no idea.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 11:14AM
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basic(Z4a)

Everyone now and then I run across a decent specimen.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 5:42PM
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