Toro WheelHorse Brake Adjustment (Pic)

andrelaplume2(usa)April 6, 2010

I had posted this as a tranny problem but now, after some feedback, I think I have a brake adjustment problem.

I have a Toro Wheelhorse (pictured below) 2000 model 12-32XL Lawn Tractor Model 71199. (peerless tranny model 205-509E, D.O.M = 01093B0046)

The sucker take its time stopping when I make a left turn with the wheels at 11:00. Turn the wheels to 9:00 and it really does not stop at all. In all other directions it stops fine. I have tried to keep it in good shapeÂits not a junker. I invested $200 2 years ago to have new belts and pulleys put on and was planning to keep it. Now I wonderÂTo be honest 99% of the time I drive clockwise so I wonder if driving clockwise for 10 years caused this!

Anyway, someone was kind enough to make a suggestion about the brakes:

http://www.odref.com/peerless/205-SERIES/205-205-509E.PDF

Look at that. In the bottom center you'll see the round disc, part 38. This acts as the brake. Part 41 hooks to the clutch/brake rod. It's been awhile, but I think you turn the nut on the end of the rod (not pictured) inward a turn or two and try the brakes again.

Well I peeked under tonight and found a crap load of old grass in there. I blew it all out with my blower, a screwdriver and some aerosol air. I test drove it. I stops harder now but still stops too slow on slight left hand turn and not really at all on a hard left.

I looked for the bolt in the diagram referenced above and do not really see it. I am no mechanic but you guys have talked me thru some fixes and I am willing to try unless you guys think I should just have it hauled to the dealer.

Here is what I see when I look in this area. Suggestions?

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rcbe(6)

do I still see a bunch of crud in there behind that outer brake arm? RE: bottom pix

    Bookmark   April 7, 2010 at 5:48AM
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baymee(LehighValleyPA)

The round disc IS your brake and it looks shiny, so it's being used.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Small-Engines-Lawn-1746/2008/6/Peerless-206-545C-transaxle.htm

See that link. Type adjusting peerless brakes into Google. I have a manual somewhere.......but where?

    Bookmark   April 7, 2010 at 6:26AM
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baymee(LehighValleyPA)

OK, here's what it says in the Murray manual. It's talking about the nut that you see in the picture at the end of the shaft.

Completely push the clutch/brake pedal forward. Set the parking brakes. Move the shift lever to the neutral position. Push the unit. If the rear wheels rotate, adjust or replace the brake pads. Adjust the drive brakes as follows.

1. The location of the brake is on the right side of the gearbox.
2. Make sure the parking brake is set and the shift lever is in neutral. Turn the hex nut in a clockwise direction until the rear wheels do not turn when the unit is pushed forward.
3. Release the parking brake and push the unit. If the unit does not roll, turn the hex nut in a counterclockwise direction until the unit rolls.
4. Set the parking brake. Push the unit. If the rear wheels do not turn, the brake is correctly adjusted. Release the parking brake.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2010 at 6:36AM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

Re: murray manual..I have a toro..does that matter? Can you identifty the bolt in one of my pictures. Also, with the brake / clutch engaged it does NOT roll forward UNLESS the wheel is turned all the way to the left...should I still try turning the bolt...assuming I can find it!

    Bookmark   April 7, 2010 at 1:50PM
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rustyj14(W/PA)

It is possible that the little brake pad is worn off, to the point it doesn't work as well as it should. They seem to wear at an angle. Disassemble the brake unit, and clean and oil all of the components, including the little round things that fit in the holes in the casting. The brake pad should also have a thin metal back pad behind it, that is just a spacer. Those brakes work well when bathed in a light oil, as i always squirt some WD 40 on them occasionally. And, what is that rod sticking down out of and behind the brake arm? A stick, or wire--what?

    Bookmark   April 7, 2010 at 5:21PM
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baymee(LehighValleyPA)

It doesn't matter what unit the tranny is on; they all used them. The nut to turn is the metal locking nut, screwed onto the shaft with the hole in the end of it. It's at the bottom of the picture at left center position.

I have no idea what the front wheels have to do with the brake unless they are interfering with the clutch rod.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2010 at 6:39PM
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baymee(LehighValleyPA)

I was just over at my buddy's house and he had a Peerless on his Craftsman tractor that was out of adjustment. It took less than one revolution of the nut to fix it.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2010 at 8:10PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

I think disassembling the thing is beyond my abilities...not even sure how to get at it. I should be able to turn a nut though. So liiking at the bottom pic, its the lowest nut about an inch and half from the left...I'll try...just find it odd it stops except when turning left...was hoping someone else experienced this.

    Bookmark   April 8, 2010 at 8:49PM
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tomplum

Is it fair to say that you notice no difference in the drive function when you are not braking? Like no sudden lurching type thing? Would there be any signs of oil of the belt? For some reason, I think it would be a good thing to undo the battery terminals and lift the battery (box and all). Below you will have access to the rear pulley and the arm that the clutch lever pulls on, cable etc for the shift on the go.Every time I look at this post it seems familiar. Maybe I have seen this before or I am confusing it w/ an XI, I dunno. You have good info on making a firm brake adjustment and you could be walked through further brake service if desired.

    Bookmark   April 9, 2010 at 11:39PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

it seams to drive fine. I'll try turning the nut and if that does nothing then pop the battery and take some more pictures...thanks!

    Bookmark   April 9, 2010 at 11:58PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

Oh crap! Well that nut turned and it stops better. Still though not as well when going to the right. It tightened it more...as much as I could but still roll it forward in nuetral. It was a little better but at a full left turn it was fighting to go forward. Then I started to smell something and saw some smoke. I stopped it and lossened the bolt...hopefully I did not make things worse.

Removing the battery does not allow me to see anything in there either. I think I need a service call...hopefully the dealer can give some advise as to whether its even work looking at. I put $150 in a year or so ago for belts and pully's. I have no idea what this will cost!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2010 at 10:45AM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

Well I asked around today about my weird issue. First they told me to remove the battery then the case the holds the battery would come out. It did. I gave it a good cleaning. Nothing changed though. Next people are thinking I am crazy when I tell them the brake does not work on left turns only. They feel it has to be something simple. One guy said to post on GW, someone must have heard of this problem....well maybe not!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2010 at 10:08PM
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tomplum

Let's think this through. The drive working well seems to lessen the chance of a a transaxle issue. From your pics, the transaxle seems to be secured well- but is is worth a double check. Because of Toro's strange shift on the go feature- one would think that if the body or shift gate would be loose- that would affect shifting rather than stopping- but worth a quick check. On the idler arm you have has 2 springs if I recall correctly- one return and one that goes on the link. You may be having an issue that for some reason the belt is continuing to drive as you try to stop. An improper belt (this is a special belt- be sure they used the Toro belt), belt that has been contaminated by an oil leak, a worn idler arm or something loose closer to the peddle. I would look closer at the peddle under the body. If nothing seems to work, look again at the slot in the idler arm. If the slot is worn, combined with wear on the rod, then when the pedal is depressed- it wouldn't be pulling the tension off the belt to the same degree as when it was new. I don't think this is adjustable, but double check the manual. Maybe as a test, you could fit a small bolt or something in the slot to take up the worn space and do a test. Worn out yet? ;)

    Bookmark   April 10, 2010 at 11:13PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

It hard for me to even identify this stuff. My local toro guy is going to pick it up in month or so and take a look. (I said I could wait...works fine going right!) I'll eventually post back what was wrong. Thanks!

    Bookmark   April 12, 2010 at 2:43PM
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trestiton

Dear Sirs,
this is my first message on a FORUM , so I have no experience on the rules , ...
I read with a lot of interest the " Brake adjustement " discussion .
Me too tried to adjust for the third time the brake of my weel horse . . . but nothing .
So I tilted my " Toro " on the left side and I saw that one of the two springs ( the bigger , in the " machine frame ", the gray one, in your pictures ) was disconnected from its anterior engagement , being yet connected to the actuation lever on the brake !
Now I have the problem of repositioning that spring , but the frame of the machine precludes the sight of all the possible levers to which connect the spring!
The operator manual nothing explain about these mechanism !.
Can anyone help me about this problem ? Do I need to remove the large " bell " with the blade ?
Thank you a lot for your attention

Trestiton

    Bookmark   June 2, 2010 at 3:25AM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

not sure...dealer never called for pickup...or I missed a call/message and its running better...usually stops now but sometimes not...to be honest I almost NEVER drive in that direction anyway but I am always weary in case it decides to give out when turning in the other direction or going straight. Maybe I can get it in for service in the fall.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2010 at 4:58PM
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buzzard_flats

Just wondering about the brake disk thing, does it by any chance change rotation direction with making a turn? i.e. connected somehow to the diferential so in a right turn going clockwise and a left going counter clockwise? Could just be the brake pad is worn more to one edge than the other and not grabbing as well. Have you tried just flushing it with brake cleaner?

    Bookmark   June 17, 2010 at 5:15PM
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BradC78

Wow, good detailed pics! Made it easy. I'm doing a rebuild on an '88 Wheelhorse with the same brake setup. Take the 1/2 in adjustment nut completely off. On either side of it there are 3/8 in bolts. Take those off, which frees the whole brake assembly. In the assembly you took off, there are two little pistons that should move freely. These are what press the pad against the disk when you hit the brakes. One of them is probably seized up. Make sure they both slide freely, and lube them both. I actually have my brake apart right now waiting on some pads from my local toro dealer, so can take some pics if you need more help. Good luck!

    Bookmark   June 13, 2011 at 8:58AM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

Hey Brad..post those pics! My wheelhorse started running fine so I never brought it in for service...no idea why...it just started stopping when turning as it should...that lasted a season or so...now its acting up again. Any help is appreciated.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2012 at 10:05AM
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mownie(7)

Brad has taken some time off, so I will try to fill in.
In the image below I will try to explain the basic workings of the brake.
Brake disc is what the brake pad (puck) presses against to affect a stop.
The pressure that pushes the puck against the disc is generated when the brake arm is rotated by applying the foot brake pedal.
This occurs because there are 2 places on the brake arm that are shaped to form a "cam" (note green). When the brake is not applied, the plunger pins are resting in the deepest portion of the cam.
When the brake arm rotates, the cams move to push against the plunger pins.......which in turn press the puck against the brake disc.
The adjuster nut (note red) simply moves the brake arm and its cams nearer to, or farther away from........the plunger pins, as needed to achieve good brake performance.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2012 at 11:40AM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

which pc is the puck? Looking at this it seams odd it will stop EXCEPT when turning left!

    Bookmark   July 13, 2012 at 11:58AM
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mownie(7)

The puck is not visible in the image.
The puck is located behind the caliper and in front of the brake disc. You will see the puck after you remove the caliper.
Yes, it seems odd indeed.
I have mused over this specific situation and I conclude that the unique complaint can only be due to a couple of circumstances.
The first one I have already outlined previously in your other thread.
The second scenario would be that the entire frame of the tractor is being reshaped during turns because of looseness in frame rivets, or bolts, or screws.......as the case may be.
This hypothetical frame reshaping could probably conspire to LENGTHEN the effective brake rod travel when making a left turn (less brake power)......and SHORTEN the effective brake rod travel when making right turns (more brake power).
Because there is a "fine line" difference between NO BRAKES and GOOD BRAKES on this mechanical type of disc brake anyhow, just a little difference in the effective length of the brake rod would have a profound overall effect on the stopping power.
Study carefully how the frame is put together.
Look closely for signs of dry, powdery rust around all the bolts (or whatever is used) that hold the frame together.
You might need to wipe around the bolt heads with a clean dry paper towel and then look at the towel to determine if there is any rust (which implies a loose fit condition).

    Bookmark   July 13, 2012 at 12:26PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

will do but recall...this was initially a problem 2 seasons ago that went away on its own...and has now returned mid season. The only thing I can think of is there was debris caught somewhere that fred itself over time...and now is back....of course I have no mechanical reason as to how debris could cause this.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2012 at 4:32PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

Partial victory, I went out this morning and took a look underneath. I saw something sticking out of the big round thing (disk?). I pulled ity out...it was stuck. Finally it snapped at me. It was a piece of a rubber band....no idea how it became entrspped there. I should have gone for a test ride rght then and there. Instead I decided to lube every thing. I shot wd40 in and around the whole area. Thas wehn I realized I was an idiot and probably should not have gotten anything on the brake disk. Any way I went for a ride. It does stop when turning left now BUT does no stop as quickly as going straigt or to the right. Maybe the wd40 made what would have been a solved problem a little worse,,,not sure. I have no idea how something could hqave got in there...much less a ruber band...for all I know a piece is still stuck in there....

    Bookmark   July 15, 2012 at 8:08PM
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mownie(7)

I doubt you have done any permanent harm. A few hard stops should get rid of the WD40.
But how come you have not disassembled the works and given everything a really good?
Now that you have admitted to finding a foreign object in there, you really should get that thing apart and look at the puck.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2012 at 10:15PM
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andrelaplume2(usa)

why? Fear! I am no mechanic. I change the oil, filter, sharpen the blade, change fuel filter...thats it....if it isn't cured, maybe I should get the pros to take in for a checkup....I don't want to make things worse....

    Bookmark   July 16, 2012 at 12:16AM
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mownie(7)

OK, that's reasonable.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2012 at 9:56AM
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