Does Rogue Valley Roses do this alot?

sandinmyshoesoregonMay 23, 2009

I recently ordered from this company as I've read wonderful reviews on them on Dave's Garden Watchdog -- plus they are in the same state I am. They showed that the rose I wanted was available in both band & gallon size, so I ordered the gallon size. Money was taken out right away as I used PayPal. Several days later I got an e-mail saying the gallon size wasn't up to their standards for sending out so they were keeping it there to grow. I asked if they had it in band size & they said those also were to little (took a couple of days to get an answer on that one too).

I read on this forum where another member had the same problem & I was just wondering if alot of folks have. Most rose suppliers will put a note "available in June" or whatever if they aren't big enough to let go.

Just curious.

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jerijen(Zone 10)

Well, I've now been waiting 6 months for a rose I ordered from another vendor.
Yes. Paid for.
Supposed to have shipped in January.
"Too small to ship."
It's now mid-May.

Yes, MANY nurseries do this.
Yes, it is VERY annoying.
No, it does not make me feel good about ordering from the company in question (NOT RVR!) again.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 12:51PM
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Yes, Rogue did this to me with 2 roses. They said they would keep it at the nursery to grow. I waited and waited..Then I nearly forgot..then I emailed them this spring and I got my roses..still very small. I would not order from them again

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 12:57PM
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Maryl zone 7a

Just out of curiosity, what roses were involved with this problem?

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 2:58PM
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It's Secret Garden Musk Climber, which they still show as being available on their website.
Maybe I should ask for my money back?

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 4:21PM
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My understanding from a post by the owner of RVR on this forum is that they suffered a late freeze and many of their babies were set back. I, in fact, have one rose in waiting myself, but I have received several happily forever after roses from them and would never hesitate to order again or to recommend them to anyone who has the patience to deal with bands.

In my experience these folks are one of the better sources for hard to find roses. I actually enjoy having the "little ones' and watching them grow up.

I have to add that I was given the option of substituting some other rose for my original choice but I am holding out for my first choice which I could not find from another nursery.

My first experience with Rogue Valley Roses I paid twice for the same order by mistake and my money was refunded at the speed of light - one of the babies that they sent me was dug out of his pot and left behind over teacup in the garden not once but twice by one of my herd of tree rats and today is a strong thriving fellow despite it all - I don't know if that is a testament to the quality of their roses or to the nature of roses in general but consider it a minor miracle.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 4:30PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Given that they had a weather issue, and given that there are few sources for SGMC, I'd choose to hang in there.

Until the fallout from that spring weather event, I've never heard ANY complaints re. RVR -- which is certainly more than I can say for most other nurseries, at one time or another.

Everyone has a bad patch, now and then.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 5:46PM
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I'm curious about what counts as "too small to send".

I ordered a band from first band, my first and only order from RVR. They sent it right away, but it was teeny and struggling. It was basically a 4" twig with a few leaves on it about the size of my pinkie finger's nail. I couldn't see any roots growing out, or near, the bottom of the band (nor did I pull it out to check if there were any roots at all).

The little twig is struggling and doesn't look good. I think it was "too small to ship". This makes me wonder. Does the excuse for not shipping because something is too small really mean they don't have it at all, based on my experience?

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 6:23PM
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Well, that's what I'm kind of wondering -- do they not have it all & are starting one for my order? It's odd that they didn't have either the gallon size or the band size ready to ship. I like to plant all my roses by July at the latest so I don't want a little twig arriving in September or something.
I'm going to try another e-mail & see what I can find out. I'll keep you posted.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 6:43PM
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I guess the nurseries have a dilemna - whether to sell too tiny roses or to hold them until they have some growth on them (a year?) and THEN post them as "available" on their website. Having recently received several roses that were the smallest I'd ever seen, I think I'd rather wait for the larger ones. BUT I want to know up front that this is the case. It seems to me the nursery can easily note on their site that bands will not be ready until X date/month. If they have a weather problem, they should post that as well on their website or email everyone waiting for roses. This business of not hearing for month after month is poor service. If they can email us when they're having a sale, they can certainly email with this kind of notification.

My two tiniest roses are still tiny almost 2 months after receiving them. In fact, almost no change at all. I have no idea when I'll be able to put them in the ground. If it's not until the fall, then I've lost basically a year's growth. But the nursery received the price of a gallon (year old?) plant. Personally, I think the plant would have been better served - not to mention the customer - if the rose had stayed in their greenhouse until the fall. I have changed the way I buy roses because of this. If I'm going to pay a gallon price, I want a gallon rose. Heaven only knows what may happen to my tiny roses. If they perish, then what? Will the nursery cover my loss? I think not. I know small babies do survive - amazingly. They have in my garden. But these were 3 inches, and by the time the crushed leaves were taken off, they were 2 inches. And though I waited over a month to pot them up, they still had no visible roots, and the "rootball" fell apart in my hand. Thankfully, roses are tough, and hopefully, these will grow and flourish, but they won't be in my garden until next year - not what I had planned when I ordered them last December. I guess the economy and the need for cashflow has created this problem. It wasn't like this last year. Though I will say that some nurseries are still giving very fine service and excellent roses.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 8:20PM
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I had the same problem this year, and was upset about it BECAUSE I had the same problem twice before, as far back as two years ago from them.

I've been in touch with them about adressing the issues they have had, and they assure me they are working on it.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 8:23PM
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petsitterbarb(Zone 6, N.E. OK)

I rec'd a Baby Austin miniature from them last week, and couldn't be more pleased. Great packing, super fast shipping and a perfectly beautiful little rose, complete with buds.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 8:57PM
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I want to make sure everyone knows my tiny plants did NOT come from RVR. I've ordered twice from them and everything was fine. I was relating my experience with another nursery who shall be nameless.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 9:18PM
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I sent them the e-mail asking about my rose & this is the response I got. I'm going to wait until she checks her stock & see what she has to say.

Peggy, I can assure you we do not lie to our customers. Never have never will. Our Secret Gardens are part of a group that was overwintered outdoors. They have stalled, but will be fine as soon as they can be persuaded to grow. I will evaluate them personally and recontact you soon. Each of our customers is valued here as a rose friend, so please do not feel that you are being manipulated. You are not. If you prefer us to refund your order we can do that too.

Janet Inada, owner

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 9:19PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Janet is a very nice person, and I call that a straight answer.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 9:31PM
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I visited RVR a few months ago and found Janet and staff very personable and conscientious. I cannot speak to having received any of their roses by mail as it worked out that I was able to just go there. At that time Janet seemed a bit frustrated by the winter/spring weather and you could tell she was worried about the struggles some of the roses were having. The situation seemed to be out of the ordinary and I really felt for her.

Having said that there were several roses I wanted that had been knocked down by the unseasonably cold spring and she was reluctant to let me leave with roses that didn't seem to have a high chance of survival. She very kindly and patiently talked through with me which ones I really wanted and were in good shape until we found (I forget, it was either 6 or 7) that we were both good with. Also she very generously gave me a free unnamed rose.

Since I have gotten all my RVR babies home they have done very well. The unnamed bloomed this week as did Baby Austin and I am very pleased. I will be giving them more of my business no question about it.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 10:09PM
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Thank you Kate - that makes me feel much better. Certainly we did have an unusual freeze here in Oregon this past season & I had roses here that suffered as never before.
I've been had by mail order in the past so I guess I'm a bit of a nervous nellie!

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 10:13PM
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chuck_billie(7/8 PNW)

This happened to me once and I didn't mind at all.
I've always felt they were straight up with me and have had good service and good plants from them.
Yes a few have been small but I've only had one not make itout of probably thirty plants.
I plan on doing business with them again.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 10:15PM
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Peggy I think your feelings are very valid. I am very sensitive about the roses I receive via mail order and if something isn't right I always vocalize my concerns. I think anytime you spend your money on a product and don't receive what you expected you are right to take some action. I just hope you and RVR can get things resolved amicably. They do have some wonderful roses.


    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 10:47PM
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Carrie_AZ(9/10 AZ)

I find this a very strange business practice. One's credit card should not be charged until the order goes out. I think if they did it that way then there would be no worries. The roses should not be up for sale unless they are ready to be sent. Just my opinion.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2009 at 11:34PM
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I've ordered from RVR and was really happy with them. As far as charging your credit card before shipment, it could be seen as kind of fishy, but I think that it's probably the only way that a small business can operate. They probably use paypal or a similar web credit company or something that requires them to charge the card as soon as the confidential number is received. And it costs them money to accept credit cards.

I think that these small nurseries are really doing a valuable service to rosedom by keeping rare varieties alive, and I know they are not getting rich doing it. Most of them also replace plants that die, trusting us on the honor system.

It is frustrating to wait for plants, though, because you are losing growing time. You will get them soon, I'm sure.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2009 at 1:36AM
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1) I routinely make purchases in October for plants to be delivered the following April/May. In many instances I pay for them at the time of ordering. I don't have a problem with that. Its a matter of opinion, feel free to differ.

2) If I want something from one of the "boutique" nurseries that ship bands/gallons of own root plants, I don't rely on what their web catalog says, I pick up the phone and inquire about actual availability.

3) I have plants on order from Vintage Gardens that I paid for in January. I was told it would be "a while" before some of the items would be ready to ship, and agreed to these terms. I'm still waiting and I am regularly updated with information about their forecast for shipping these. I appreciate the feedback and understand that if a plant has not grown large enough to ship yet, then there is not a whole lot the nursery can do to force it to grow faster.

With the demise of numerous nurseries in the past few years, we should all be very concerned about the health of the ones we have left. I feel that I can afford to be a bit more patient and understanding than I might have been a decade ago. I'm not in this rose growing business just for my own thrills, I am in it to help these nurseries persist and have a healthy future so that in another decade when I want an obscure rose there will still be someone around to sell it to me, even if I wait six months or a year for delivery. There are more important things to worry about.

Paul Barden

    Bookmark   May 24, 2009 at 6:54PM
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I just wanted to make sure everyone realized that I mentioned I paid via "PayPal" in my original post about this matter. PayPal is a quick & easy way to pay for an item directly from your checking account & I like it. I wanted to make sure everyone realized that Rogue Valley didn't charge my credit card & then kept me waiting.
I think this whole matter will turn out o.k. It sounds like they are an above board company doing their best so I'll wait & see. I was just curious if this company was trying to pull something on me that they had pulled on alot of people. It doesn't sound like it. I'll keep you all posted & thanks!

    Bookmark   May 24, 2009 at 7:51PM
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Well, it will be a week tomorrow since Janet promised she'd go out & personally check the stock on the rose I wanted. I haven't heard a word.
Since I last wrote I ordered, & have received, 2 roses from Amity in California.
Guess that says it all.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2009 at 10:45AM
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Well, I have reconsidered..It is true that our rose sources are few.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2009 at 11:40AM
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I recently checked on a rose that I ordered from RVR in December (and paid for as part of a larger order)--still too small to ship. Since we're hitting the dry season, I asked them to hold it a couple more months (probably would be waiting that long anyway.)

Something the small nurseries could do to keep their customers happy in situations like this is just let us know--either via their web site or one of the mass mailing/newsletters we get--something like "Sorry, the weather was bad this spring, and some of our roses are getting started more slowly than expected. Rest assured, your order will be filled when the roses are large enough to be shipped, but there may be a slight delay."

I think we can all sympathize with the impact of bad weather and don't hold nurseries responsible--if we know what's going on. If we don't hear anything other than "this rose wasn't included with your order because it was too small--you'll get it later", it comes across as "we screwed up and sold you something we don't have, and now you have to wait for us to recover from our mistake. And by the way, thanks for the payment."

Makes me think back a hundred years or so to my parent's curfew rules--if we were running late and called to let them know, we got a pass. Otherwise, we were grounded.

Looking at the response to Vintage's notice last year that they might be forced out of business, I have to think that a nursery who lets us know that there are some viable reasons for problems with orders would get an outpouring of support, rather than irritated customers.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2009 at 12:28PM
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Rogue Valley Roses sends wonderful roses.

I've bought around 700 roses in the past 15 years, everything from 3 inch pots to bareroots to 5 gallon potted roses. I've lost between 1 and 1.5% as a result of bad plants from nurseries, and that includes new bareroots that were received virused.

We need to realize we're are dealing in collectors' plant materials that don't often come at a reasonable price. The only way the price is reasonable is to ship very small, very young plants. Two gallon roses cost a fortune to ship across the country. If that's what you want, then buy from the two or three nurseries that ship those plant. Be prepared to pay $35 to $45 for transcontinental shipping. Better yet, go to a nursery and pick out plants yourself.

If you want roses that meet your personal standards, if you want a certain size, if you're not handy with cuttings and want a plant that is ready to go in the ground, if you want to pay only when the plant is shipped, please pick up the phone and convey your expectations in person. Publicly complaining when you don't like the product you receive - without first letting the nursery know your complaints - isn't a productive approach to resolving your issues and unnecessarily damages the businesses involved.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2009 at 12:58PM
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Some of my best plants have come from RVR. And they did let me know after the order was shipped that one wasn't included--I probably could have canceled it if I had so desired. It's a plant I want, so it's not a problem to wait for it.

But I think it's fair for someone to say "Has anyone else had this problem" with a nursery. The feedback may be that no one else has any issues--and it's a one-time problem, and we all know that mistakes happen. Or it may be a regular problem with a particular nursery, and that's a good thing to know, too. For customers AND businesses, so they can take action to fix a problem.

And if there's a special circumstance, be it weather or something else, that's going to affect the delivery of plants, it would be nice for the business to let the customer know. Even if it's "sorry, this is our busy time of year, so there may be a delay in getting back to you."

Just my 2 cents.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2009 at 2:01PM
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Whoa! I do understand the freeze this year, & how hard it is to run a small business, & I do worry about keeping these wonderful nurseries in business.
What has bugged me is their lack of communication & the fact that they show a rose being "available" (in 2 different sizes) when it isn't.
I'm going to wait a little longer & see what happens. They have a Paul Barden that I would LOVE to try (anyone have Incantation??) but I'm a little gun shy right now.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2009 at 5:26PM
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I ordered four unique roses from this company. When my plants arrived they were infested big bugs , and some were really dry. I contacted the company and talked to the owner she would not accept that these items were in bad condition when they arrived. She said that it must have been my fault for not taking care of them. She basically accused me of lying about the condition of these plants, as she said nothing Will ship from her company in bad conditions. She argued on the phone with me and she would not hear anything I had to say. I paid over hundred dollars four these four roses and I got nothing in return. I would never do business with this company again please be careful when you buy items from this company if your plants arrive with bad condition it is no replacements or even a small apology

    Bookmark   May 7, 2014 at 8:55PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

Curious as to the kind of bugs? I was very happy with all three of the orders placed to small growers this year (RVR Heirloom and Burlington)

But having just dealt with my friends at the post office (took two tries and two weeks to get 4 baby roses 75 miles) little would surprise me. And it was almost cooked. Only one of those roses looks iffy so far.

My Vintage Rose came in the mail today, marked all over about being plants. It is the second box of that shape and size I received bent up in shipping (plant is okay and it only took them a couple of days to ship that almost 400 miles)

    Bookmark   May 7, 2014 at 9:35PM
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Marjanheims I ordered Incantation this year, it did arrive alittle small. It was the smallest of all the ones I ordered, but has since doubled in size and is doing very well. I haven't seen it bloom yet but it seems vigorous and healthy. I may order some more Paul Barden roses from them, this is my second and love it like the first. That said I've never had RVR to fail to fix a problem if their is one. I've talked to Janet and James up there and they are very nice, and Janet herself told me they had a bad winter this year, as we all did. I'm sure we can all relate to that since alot of people on this forum have lost roses this year due to the bad weather. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend RVR or High country, RU, Burlington, or longago, ect. I agree communication is the key and it goes both ways :) I know I've had a misunderstanding taking something the wrong way. I'm sure if you give them time as I'm sure they are busy, they will get your rose. I believe some places are just warming up and it takes good weather for roses to grow, just have patience. It will be worth it in the end :)

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 8:31AM
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mossy_z7wa(zone 7, WWA)

I have three bands on my back porch which I just received from Rogue Valley Roses, and couldn't be happier with them. Marianne and Siren's Keep are about 18" high, both have buds, and Siren's Keep has a blossom, Cornelia is about 8" high and also has buds. And I received a call yesterday from RVR to see if they had arrived safely. I am quite happy with the service and the plants.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 11:53AM
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vasue(7A Charlottesville)

Received my only order from Rogue Valley 6 years ago & was definitely wowed by the roses & the service. Would order again in a heartbeat if they had the roses I'm seeking in gallons, as were the first. Impression remains that these are people who love roses & want them to thrive.

Looking over online catalogues for a variety of plants this Spring, see many noting their offerings' growth has been slower than usual with delivery delayed or extended. Leaf out in my own garden has been delayed more than anytime in the last 16 years, so I'm not surprised. We all know that plants have their own timetable, and I respect growers who choose to ship when their plants are looking good & ready to go. Feel certain none of this is intentional & it must be driving them crazy, too...

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 2:24PM
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Marjamheims - very curious about what happened to your roses after they arrived - did you soak them in water and wash off the bugs? Do you know what kind of bugs they were? Did the roses survive?


    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 2:43PM
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musaboru(Inland Calif.)

I was unhappy with my first order because of the puny bands but looks like I am seeing good reasons to make another order from RVR again. To echo what Mr. Barden posted, it would be a shame to lose a nursery that carries such rare or difficult to source rose varieties. And I've done my research, I cannot find Wedding Cake available at any other mail order source.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 2:54PM
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"When my plants arrived they were infested big bugs"

What was the insect infestation? Determining how much of a problem the insect is depends on a positive identification of the creature. It's highly likely that the insects aren't really going to be a problem at all. Every nursery has insects present in their facilities - it's an inescapable fact of nursery life.

So - help us to help you assess the problem and determine if, and what, you should do!

This post was edited by trospero on Thu, May 8, 14 at 17:13

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 5:08PM
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It may not be an important detail, but it does appear that "marjanheims" joined GW just to post this complaint.

Still no word on what kind of insect infestation was in the roses?

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 10:29AM
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I agree trospero! I was thinking the same thing.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 1:40PM
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Anyway, I just want to say that I have ordered several roses from RVR over the past few years, and I have been happy with each of them, and they are thriving in my garden. I am used to small bands - I root some of my old old roses, and the RVR bands are much bigger than the little rooted cuttings I produce! They grow quite nicely with some TLC and protection from critters and too much sun too fast. I intend to order from RVR the next time they have a rose I want.


    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 2:12PM
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Have had wonderful luck with all my RVR roses.

    Bookmark   May 10, 2014 at 9:55AM
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jasminerose4u, California(9b)

I got a notice this year too from Roses Unlimited saying that the long winter slowed down growth and therefore my order would be delayed until the rose plants met their standards. Weather is unpredictable and so are rose plants. I admit, I was disappointed, because I was anxious to begin rose gardening. But the well established plants were worth waiting for. I think it's easy to take rose nurseries for granted and to forget that roses can't be made in factories. I sure hope these nurseries stay in business. I've been unsucessful at rooting cuttings and if I try rose breeding, I'm most likely to get single-petal pink roses. Nice, but the variety that breeders and nurseries provide is amazing and their roses in our gardens bring such pleasure.

    Bookmark   May 10, 2014 at 1:14PM
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I think we're ready to conclude that you have either resolved this issue, or you aren't actually looking for resolution, since you have ignored requests for a description of the bug infestation problem you cited. We are here to help you, if help is what you want.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2014 at 9:51AM
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plan9fromposhmadison(8A Madison Mississippi)

In looking-up Rogue Valley Roses, I happened across rather scathing reviews on Dave's Garden. Frankly, I was finding those reviews hard to believe. I don't see the same thing here at Gardenweb. Except that ONE certain someone's post comes across as that of someone paid to help with a smear campaign.

Are the big 'Rose Interests' setting out to bankrupt the smaller outfits, one by one? Gardenweb seems to have the West Coast's elite rosarians. So, if anyone would know, you guys would. What's the deal? A smear campaign against RVR?

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 6:54PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

You know what? When we began to look for Old Roses -- things we couldn't buy at the local chain nursery -- there were, like, two sources in the United States.

We've gone through a period of having many, many good nurseries, and a veritable banquet of rare roses to choose from. Now, we have lost nursery after nursery, and I by golly cherish the ones we have left.

I know the RVR people, a little. Not enough to call them my best friends, but enough to use first names, y'knowwhatimean? Nice folks. Keeping this nursery going isn't EASY.

I order a rose once in a blue moon, because most of what I'm growing ain't in commerce. When I DO order, RVR is where I usually go. The plants they've sent me have always been good ones. I have certainly never seen one that was insect-infested.

The complaints here astonish me.

    Bookmark   July 31, 2014 at 1:31PM
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Certainly the post which started this thread appears to be suspect, as it is the one and only post ever from that person, and whoever it is has not further participated in this thread. Why would anyone do this?

Coincidentally, I was at RVR yesterday morning. We were visiting relatives in Ashland, OR. I wanted to get 'Perle D'or' for a neighbor who was taking care of our cats while we were gone. Turned out that RVR was only 10 minutes from where we were, so I called them and they had it. We showed up at 8AM to pick it up. Lovely place - a house and acreage on top of a hill, beautiful gardens. Three people helped us, including the owner. Lovely, healthy blooming band. All the way home it rode with us in the air conditioned car. When we stopped for any length of time I put it in the cooler. Got home safely, and my neighbor was ecstatic.


    Bookmark   July 31, 2014 at 1:33PM
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