Deformed Sunrise Echinacea

echinaceamaniac(7)June 25, 2008

Here are some pictures of the deformed Echinacea Sunrise blooms.

Should you decide to purchase these plants make sure the plant you are buying has at least 2 blooms on it. Look at all the petals and make sure they are all 1.)there and 2.) Not quilled.

Do not order these through a mail order company. I did that last year. Since you can't visually check the plants because they aren't blooming when shipped, you could end up like me with a Franken-Coneflower!

Notice my old-fashioned pink Echinaceas in the background and how their blooms look normal and have so much color. These start out a pale yellow, but in a few days they quickly turn this pale ugly color!

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blueangel(7b)

Looking at these photos I do not see
anything wrong 1st photo nice cone
fully formed petals with a slight quilled
pattern.
Photo 2 again nice full cone petals quilled.
Photo 3 again nice cone petals are week and just slightly
quilled or turned.
Photo 4 same as previous photos
Photo 5 a nice white coneflower with some
disress to the petals.
In my opinion this could be genic but not a virus or
dideased plant.

Blueangel

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 3:25PM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

blueangel...

I'm not saying it's 100% sure a disease. What I am saying is this isn't normal. The plants are supposed to have normal petals. The company that produces them discontinued Sunset last year for a very similar distorted petal problem.

If you don't see something wrong, you need to get your glasses checked. Here is the photo used to sell these plants. Note: I got this from ItSaul plant's own web site. They clearly don't look like the plant I received!

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 3:35PM
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blueangel(7b)

echinaceamaniac
I recognize that they pulled Sunset last year
hybridizing of plants can take years to perfect.
You are saying that the company is misrepresenting
the product,I say no becuase of DNA and genics it
is impossible to know how every plant will perform.
How many of your Echinacea's have seeded them self
and have produced a plant that differs from the parent?

Blueangel

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 3:53PM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

blueangel,

These don't come from seeds. They are tissue cultured which is supposed to produce plants identical to the original. It's obviously not working in Echinaceas. I can post other pictures of Ruby Star to prove those aren't reproducing true to the pictures either.

I know it's impossible to know how every plant will perform, but these have been on the market for several years now and they DO know about the problem because I sent the pictures to them and they are still shipping them out with the problem.

I don't agree with you that this is ok and normal. I think this is blatant false advertising and this company ItSaul plants should recall these plants with this problem.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 4:02PM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

The bloom on the left is what I got when I received my Sunrise plant. The bloom on the right is a normal bloom of sunrise. I don't know why someone can't look at these 2 pictures and not see that something is wrong with the bloom on the left. I don't want to pay over 10 dollars for a plant and have it look nothing like the plant I ordered. At the very least, someone should send me a replacement plant or refund my money. Is it too much to ask to get a normal, healthy plant without deformed flowers? Do any of you see the problem with this plant? I mean the color is a disappointment too. It was only the pretty color for a day or two. It almost looks like a deformed White Swan now! These are disgusting!

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 4:20PM
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blueangel(7b)

echinaceamaniac
Interesting,tissue cultured if that is the case
then they are indeed reproducing the same
Abnormal behavior in the plants,as tissue culture
is reproducing identical plants of the parent.
Now dose this problem exist across the country
or is it limited to one location.If it dose not
exist everywhere then there is no false advertising.

Blueangel

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 4:24PM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

Blueangel,

Not all of the plants are like this. I got 2 and 1 is like this. I went to Home Depot and every Sundown they had was like this. I'm sure other people across the country have them because I went to Flickr and other people have posted photos and some are like this. Someone else is supposed to post a photo of their plant which is like this too.

I'm seeing a trend with these plants.

1.) They aren't as cold hardy as the other coneflowers.
2.) They have deformed blooms (Sunset, Sundown, Sunrise)
3.) The blooms fade very quickly to an ugly pastel color

Just because it doesn't exist 100% of the time doesn't mean there is no problem.

All I'm suggesting is that people make sure their plants they are purchasing have 2 normal blooms minimum. I want others to be informed about this problem so they won't end up in the same boat as me with deformed plants they have to destroy! Mail order is out of the question with something like this. Why would someone risk ordering something knowing it could look like this? It's best to go some place and pick a normal one out for yourself. If two or more blooms are normal, then it's probably ok to try the plant.

I'm just trying to inform as many people as I can about this. These plants are very expensive. I hope you understand why this is such a big problem with these plants. The cost of them is way high.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 4:32PM
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tasymo

For the prices I've seen on some of these Big Sky plants, I would certainly not be satisfied with what you got. It sure looks like false advertising to me. I suppose they can get away with it because they can claim that the plant was not taken care of properly or wasn't planted under the right conditions... It might be wise to take pics that include some of your healthy coneflowers as well, to prove that you do know how to take care of them. Kathy

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 4:36PM
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blueangel(7b)

echinaceamaniac
If purchased at Home Depot the problem very
likely is with Stacy's.They are famous for inferior
plants,diseased and those with viruses.
I do agree with you that it should be made aware of
and that this problem could exist.

Blueangel

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 4:37PM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

tasymo,

You can clearly see then normal pink coneflowers in the photos I posted. I have all the new coneflowers such as Tiki Torch, Coconut Lime, Ruby Giant, Double Delight, Razmatazz and the list goes on and on, but the only ones with blooms like this are Big Sky Series plants. I've been growing these for years. The only ones with bad blooms and health are Big Sky plants. I have some of my old ones that are 5-6 feet tall and have over 20 blooms on them which look perfect. These are shorter and have distorted blooms.

It's not just me either. I'm sure many people will post photos of their plants. The ones I photographed at Home Depot were a fresh batch that just came off a truck and not 1 had normal blooms!

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 4:45PM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

Here is a picture of my healthy Coconut Lime and After Midnight. See I'm not all against the Big Sky Series! LOL. I have 1 After Midnight out of 4 which is still growing and blooming normally! Yay!

and here's my beautifully healthy Tennessee coneflower!

And here's my healthy Pallida. I hope the angle doesn't bother anybody! LOL!

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 5:18PM
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kimnc7

Here are my pictures.

I bought these from Lowe's for $3.00 ea late last summer. As far as I can remember, the petals were normal and I enjoyed the blooms until frost. They obviously survived the winter, a late planting, and are robust, but as you can see the petals are a mess. I am also disappointed in the color which is very washed out.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 11:07PM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

Thanks kimnc7! It looks like your mutant came from the same lab as mine! Is this not the most disappointing group of plants you have ever grown? I mean they are disgusting! I've never seen anything so hyped up and then come down so fast!

    Bookmark   June 25, 2008 at 11:58PM
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redpeony

I have to admit, that if I had a plant that flowered like that, it would get shoveled to the compost pile very quickly. My disgust at looking at a plant that is not what I wanted would outweigh any potential normal looking blooms that are in that mess!

    Bookmark   June 26, 2008 at 12:15AM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

redpeony, Some of these people are implying that this is normal. I'm sure it's normal if you live close to a nuclear dump, but this is not what a normal coneflower looks like to me. I'm thinking there is something wrong with stability when it comes to tissue culture and these plants. It could be the lab that makes them.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2008 at 12:26AM
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terrene(5b MA)

Echinaceamaniac, I love the pictures of your other coneflowers! That Coconut Lime is really interesting looking!

I agree, the pictures of Sunrise on this thread are terrible. I would be dicouraged if the flowers looked like that too. I've had Sunrise for 2 years, and they look like the picture from Isaul's website, when they first bloom anyway. They do fade to a pale yellow, but I happen to really like pale yellow so that's okay. And the blooms start to look ratty looking, they get munched on by a few Asian beetles, etc. but that happens with all my Echinacea.

Sunrise, Spring 2006 -

Sunrise, Spring 2007 -

    Bookmark   June 26, 2008 at 2:48AM
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terrene(5b MA)

The pictures above should say Summer 2006 and Summer 2007, since these bloom in July!

    Bookmark   June 26, 2008 at 2:51AM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

Thanks terrene. I have one that looked like yours and one that looks like those pictures. I bought them from 2 different places.

The one that looks good I picked out at a nursery last year because I was disappointed in the one I got from Wayside.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2008 at 3:02AM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

I contacted an echinacea hybridizer in the US and he said this is a not a disease but a genetic aberration. He said it happens when items are pushed too hard in the tissue culture laboratory.

He said if you purchase a plant like this to ask for a refund.

Good luck to all of you with this problem!

    Bookmark   June 26, 2008 at 10:02AM
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radagast(US east coast)

Interesting information.

The "Sunrise" that I have does tend to fade out to a pale-yellow rather fast, unfortunately. On the plus side, it has grown very vigorously and hasn't had much in the way of quilled petals. It did have a few deformed petals (quills or missing most petals) after the shock of the late frosts in April, 2007, but that lousy weather produced a similar effect upon my "Magnus" coneflower. Other than the first few flowers on both plants in 2007, everything has been normal for me.

It is worth mentioning that I bought my plants from a local nursery, not a big-box store, which may explain the quality of the tissue culture.

Good luck, and thanks for all the info about this problem.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2008 at 12:20PM
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Nancy zone 6

I purchased several Sundown & Sunrise last fall from one of those stores, I'm very pleased with mine.
Very early picture of Sunrise, it is full of flowers now & much fuller & better looking.

Sundown

Both of these start out a really nice color, but fade. Sundown becomes a muted purple after a few days, & Sunrise to a muddier white. I don't mind, but I wasn't expecting that. Wish I had better pictures...

    Bookmark   June 26, 2008 at 12:37PM
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radagast(US east coast)

Ah, nuts... I am going to have to retract my statement: my "Sunrise" has some of the washed out, quilled-petal flowers on it as well - the first flowers to open this year didn't have this problem. I'd have to go back and check photos from previous years to see how common this issue was. Oddly, other flowers on the same plant have a much richer yellow color with no quilled petals. Strange... and annoying!

    Bookmark   June 27, 2008 at 8:12AM
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echinaceamaniac(7)

ngraham, Your bloom doesn't look normal either. Post some more photos later when it's in full bloom. The bloom should be more symmetrical and like a daisy shape. Look at their website for how it's supposed to look.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sunrise On ItSaul's Own Site

    Bookmark   June 27, 2008 at 10:47AM
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