The John Deere riding mowers the are selling at Lowes, can anyone comment on these? I believe the model numbers are the L150, L130 and the L120. I have heard that these are a generic version of the John Deere...any comments?
If they were generic they wouldn't have John Deere on the sides of them or be painted green and yellow, now would they?
roland, are you already shopping for a replacement tractor for the club?
... In a JD owned factory. Just not the factory that makes series 300 and up tractors.
They are manufactured and backed by John Deere.
This has been discussed over and over again. Just do a search for HD or Lowes and you will find plenty of info. As has been said JD does build their own light lawn tractors at a plant in TN. They are not rebadged MTDs or Husqvarnas, but they are built to compete with them, and do suffer from some of the same design decisions. such as bushings in place of bearings,light duty transaxles, consumer grade engines. etc.
They are real deere's, as the previous post's stated. But also they are backed by a real JD dealer, they will have the backing dealers decal on them somewhere, the dealer will be made known to you if the decal is not there - Then go to that JD dealer service dept(service manager) (not a salesman) and ask if there is any problem in otaining timely service (warranty or otherwise)on the unit.
Post his answer here!! nuff said.
.... You should be aware that JD will not cover any problems that they determine result from how the tractor was maintained while at Lowes (or Home Depot). May or may not be a big deal, depending on how the store takes care of things, how long they've had the machine sitting around, etc, if it has been returned by a customer, etc.
I bought my LA100 JD at lowes back in may with a 3 year extended warrenty.I have a question! The lowes that i bought the lawn tractor from has a JD dealer assigned from that local area.There is a closer JD dealer to my house and was wondering if i can use them instead of the one lowes picked out if i need serviceing??
It never hurts to ask , but I'm guessing that the JD dealer further away agreed to do the service and the closer one wouldn't touch a machine bought at a box store with a ten foot pole . It depends on the individual dealer of course , but some of the more snobby JD dealers won't even recommend an L series Deere even if bought directly from them !
I really dont know why some JD dealers are so reluctant to service a tractor bought from the box store.$$ is $$ and they may even gain a customer in the process.
"I'm guessing that the JD dealer further away agreed to do the service and the closer one wouldn't touch a machine bought at a box store..."
I had the same question before I bought from HD. I asked both the 'sticker' dealer and the nearby dealer, unrelated of course, whether I could go to the nearby. I also asked JD directly. All 3 answers were in the unqualified positive; this is part of the dealer agreement it appears.
Still, it might be a good idea to ask first. Also, the comment on another thread about them overcharging for big-box buyers is another concern, although it may or may not be true.
stanleyjohn- It's a mystery to me also , business is business and more statisfied customers should be good business - right ? It makes me wonder if these snobby JD dealers showed the same disdain the very first time JD came up with an affordable LT , the STX or any sub 2k machine . I doubt it , as I think they see the box store versions as cutting into their sales , so therefor they see any JD sold at HD or Lowes as the enemy . That is they see customers buying a cheap version of a very good product and getting turned off of the brand if it turns out to be unreliable as opposed to getting good service out of a machine then upgrading in acreage and buying an upgrade JD machine from the dealer . Which is the way the JD dealers who service the box store machines seem to look at the situation .
I'm not sure what type businesses you are all in. But, I would think if someone came into your establishment demanding free service for a product they purchased elsewhere, you would be a bit reluctant as well.
Any repair under warranty is paid for by Deere , not under warranty paid by the consumer . Nothing is free these days , I thought everyone knew that ?
I agree Nine! For the first 2 years under warrenty!deere will pay the dealer for the repairs and lowes will pay the dealer the next 3 years after since i got the extended warrenty from lowes.The dealer dosnt loose a dime and the guy bringing in the tractor may just buy items for his tractor there or maybe even a new one in time.The dealer looses nothing.
"For the first 2 years under warrenty!deere will pay the dealer for the repairs and lowes will pay the dealer the next 3 years after since i got the extended warrenty from lowes."
I believe that the 2 year factory warranty overlaps with the 3 year Lowe's extended warranty. Extended warranties are a huge money maker for stores. They are basically a high priced insurance policy.
I take care of my stuff and I don't want to pay a premium for the millions of idiots that don't. I self-insure everything with the exception of life, health, home, and auto/truck. Those risks can amount to $100s of thousands if not millions of dollars. A lawn tractor is chump change by comparison.
I consider extended warranties and payday loans in the same category...ripoffs.
Yes the dealer gets paid for warranty repairs, but the labor allowance is cut back to what the manufacturer says it'll be, if the dealer sold the unit he should want to keep his customer happy and correct any problems. You buy at a box store you're their customer not his and I wouldn't blame the dealer a bit for taking care of his customers first and box store customers when he gets a chance. Went to Lowes the other evening looking for an item, couple ahead of me with five kids that made a bee-line for the lawn tractors sitting out front. When I came out 10-12 minutes later those kids were having a ball pulling-pushing on every switch while jumping up and down on the seat. Sure made me want one of those!
I've seen that too and while I'm old I remember all the energy I had as a kid . I think back to the 60s where many big department stores had a lobby upon entering the store with pinball machines and other arcade games , hot pretzels and hot dogs for sale -almost a mini-carnival atmosphere . Big department stores have gotten away from that , maybe because of lawyers and lawsuits ? If not it might be a good idea to bring those lobby arcades back to occupy a kid's boundless energy .
I bought my LA120 from the local JD dealer and it wouldn't start when warmed up , they came right out with a trailer and picked it up fixed it and returned it the next day and said if any other problems just call and we will pick it up. The service mgr said he had a service bulletin regarding the problem and it was a faulty spring ...something to do with the compression release I guess. Anyway it works fine now.
I purchased an LA120 last week from a JD dealer. I made this decision based on the fact that these guys make their living selling and servicing these machines; they want you to be happy. The guy at Lowes does not have the experience or knowledge to answer all of your questions. I spent at least 45 minutes with the salesman at the JD dealer - he knew that machine inside and out. He reviewed with me all of the key points of the tractor, service schedule and general maintenance that I could perform myself. When I went to pick it up, he had the machine cleaned and ready to go. I was very impressed by the level of services that they provided.
My advice is to buy the tractor from your local dealer.
enquiring minds need to know...when you buy from a box store, and that box store has an agreement with a dealer, being JD, Husk, Toro, or whatever, when a problem should happen to arise you must bring it back to the box store and then they will take it to the dealer...especially when you decide to buy an extended service plan insurance policy...you will also most likely have to wait a little longer than your next door neighbor who went to the dealer and bought the same machine with the same problem...whether you like it or not... the dealer will tend to the one who bought it from him rather than the one from a box store first...customer satisfaction...that's life...also keep in mind that if four other box store bought machines are already there..then that makes you number 5...actually number 6...cause remember the guy that bought it from the dealer to begin with...he is still put ahead of the rest of ya...once again just a fact of life..
Spend the bucks and get the X300.
I sold my 20 year old JD 1987 160 for 400 bucks and got the X300. It cut mowing my 1.25 acres by half the time. So far it has stood up to the grit the old one had.
Ok!! I blew it when i bought from the box store.The past is done and now i have to live with it.If what deerslayer is true about the extended warrenty then im pissed!!.I was told id get an extra 3 years after the JD warrenty ran out.Im hoping to get a hitch mounted on my wifes Rav4 so it can use a trailer my dad is giving me if i need to transport my tractor.
Here's a quote from Smart Money (the link below) regarding extended warranties.
"It's also worth noting that when you buy, say, a three-year extended warranty from a retailer or third party, you purchase double coverage for at least a portion of that contract. The clock starts ticking on a contract when you buy the product not after the original warranty expires. So if you're paying $100 for a three-year warranty on a digital camera and you bought it with your Amex green card, you're really spending $100 for just one year of coverage. Still think it's worth it?"
Here's a link to the entire article.
stanleyjohn, you may be able to go back to Lowe's and cancel the extended warranty. Nothing unethical or difficult to Lowe's about this as they have spent zero money and almost no time 'building' your warranty. When I purchased one on an appliance I had established a good relationship with the salesman and he indicated that if within a reasonably short time and with enough argument Lowe's might refund you the warranty, assuming it's not been utilized of course.
Re HD warranty, it is much better than Lowe's, at least on paper. It covers you for 2 years over and above the JD 2 years, and a further 2 years for only a little more. Thus you get 6 years coverage for about $400. Still, I did not take this as I figured I'd take the risk and self-insure a bit, and also that mowers are used in environments that might encourage the warranty issuer to push back with all sorts of exceptions (what's this dent here? Customer abuse!). My LA120 already has, in just two mowings, noticeable markings on the deck surround due to brushing up against retaining walls, etc.
Finally, Amex will double the warranty up to one year. I forget exactly, but I think a two-year product (like JDs) will either be not covered or covered for 2 yrs (original) plus one, making three. Still better than chopped liver.
From the previously linked article.
"All American Express cards even the entry-level green card will double a warranty up to one year. All Visa Signature and MasterCard Gold, Platinum and World cards offer the same service."
If you use one of the listed cards, a 1 year warranty becomes 2 years and a 2 year warranty becomes 3 years.
I went to the Lowe's site and found their extended warranty terms for outdoor power equipment. See below.
"Benefits begin, unless otherwise stated above, with the expiration of the manufacturer's warranty and extends for the remaining life of the plan."
The word "remaining" is the "gotcha".
If you buy a 3 year plan for a tractor with a 2 year manufacturer's warranty, benefits will begin after year 2 and terminate at the end of year 3 because 3 years is the life of the plan.
I couldn't find any info on HD's extended warranties but I would be surprised if they didn't operate the same way as Lowe's.
... For any JD dealer to NOT provide you good service on any JD ... regardless where you bought it. What better way to make you aware of their sevices and do business with you.
There are 3 good reasons for them to bend over backwards ... annual maintainance, repairs, and new equipment (machines and accessories).
As far as I know, the big box stores do not sell maintenance kits and supplies for JD, so if you're the type tp maintain your tractor yourself, then the dealers are competing for that business. If your the type to have JD service your tractor, then you'll call them. If you don't maintain your equipment at all, chances are you'll need them for repairs. You also may want to buy accessories, which I don't think are sold at Lowes or HD. If a dealer can get you coming to their store, and provide good service, you may think of them when you need other equipment, like trimmers, chain saws, etc.
Since JD's last a long time, you're going to need repairs from time to time. And Eventually you're going to need a new machine.
Not sure how a dealer gets to be the one that sets up machines at Lowes and HD ... must have to agree to provide some level of support to the store, plus accept a flat rate fee. They are probably thinking about your future business. Any other dealer you call for service should see you as an opportunity.
Don't know if this is true with tractors, but with cars they say the money is made on service, not selling the car.
Sure, if they're busy, they may priortize based on servicing equipment they sell first. But they should provide you good service ... with a smile.
nebeginner, well said.
Deerslayer, pls review my above post re HD warranty; I have discussed this at length with a dept manager.
I agree they should , but in rural areas the main income for Deere dealers are farmers and commercial lawn service contractors . They have more than enough in those two areas to keep them busy during the growing season and some even see the quality of the brand being corrupted by the L series , even without losing sales to the box stores whose machines will be put at the bottom of the list when they do agree to service them at all . There was an annoying little guy in Hackettstown N.J. , who lost his Deere franchise by refusing to offer repair and service to box store units and even alienated customers who bought directly from him . He went out of business , but on the downside there is no Deere dealer in that area now .
"Deerslayer, pls review my above post re HD warranty; I have discussed this at length with a dept manager."
I don't doubt what you believe you heard but I've found that store personnel sometimes don't understand their own extended warranties. In addition, sometimes they'll let you assume what you want. They'll simply say that the extended warranty begins when the factory warranty ends. That part is true. They won't point out that the 3 year extended warranty ends 3 years after purchase and the 4 year extended warranty ends 4 years after purchase. You'll find that out when make a claim beyond 3 or 4 years.
Look at it this way, stores can call an extended warranty that is 2 years factory plus 1 year theirs either a 1 year extended warranty or a 3 year extended warranty. Which one do you think they'll choose?
I looked at the L series last year, my Ariens 1540 was crapping out. The local dealer who has a high inventory of farm equipment seemed to care less about my intrest in the L series. My Ariens finally crapped out and I'm decided not to invsest anymore in it.
I got a 130 at lowes this weekend and so far it seems ok. It too was set up by a dealer farther away then my local one. The only thing I had to do was ajust the deck wheels.
Stay away from lowes extended warranty as posted it starts as soon as you buy it. Guess I'll see how my local dealer or the set up dealyer deals with any problems that crop up.
So far I like it.
HD publishes a brochure describing the warranty and I believe it says in some fashion what I stated. I don't have it right now to quote from but it should be easy to get one, with HD within easy reach of most people. Agree about personnel letting you assume things but I did pointedly ask him, very specifically, about the timing. Still, if he's misinformed or lying I can't do much about that.
I called lowes today and talked with someone who deals with the extented contracts.He said that John deeres warrenty covers 1 year and after that lowes takes over for 3 more years giving me a total of 4 years.
See link below for JD's word on how long the warranty is. Your Lowe's guy has his head up his rear end.
The John Deere warranty is 24 months for residential use. I think that says something about the credibility of the person you spoke with.
It wouldnt surprise me I thought warrenty was 2 years also.
What I do not understand is,if the cost of the tractor is the same (which it is) at Lowes/Home Depot/etc.,why would you NOT buy from the local servicing dealer?
Simple answer teelee!I wasnt thinking.I bought it before i started to find all this wonder information on MTF.I found and joined MTF after i bought my LA100.A friend of mine at work bought a L100 series a few years ago at HD.He hasnt had any problems with his and many at work said get something good! I said how about a john deere and they said good choice.I should of checked about JD dealers but i thought they would charge more than i could afford!I was wrong about!in the future ill be more prepared. Stan
If planning on buying a john deere,your best bet is to go to a jd dealer.I have worked at lowes and home depot in the outdoor power equipment department as a professional sales person and seen alot of them come back with blown engines,due to water in the oil.Due to being left out in the rain.If you do purchase from them, change the oil and filter (if equipped)before starting engine.Lowes and Home Depot is a great place to buy jds or any other type of lawn equipment,but the first thing to do is change the oil with good grade of oil. I use valvoline 10w30.Dealers will give you better warranty and quicker service if and when needed.
1) The box store John Deeres are bona-fide John Deeres, just like the Cimmaron was a bona-fide Cadillac. People wanted to say they owned a Cadillac but didn't want to pay for a Cadillac, and didn't really care for the upgraded hardware that made a Cadillac worthy of the name, so GM gave them a Cavalier with a Cadillac badge, sold and serviced it in their Cadillac dealerships--just like the LA series. Park your LA100 next to an X500 it you will be humbled much in the same manner as a Cad-alier owner parking his car next to a Sedan DeVille at the service dept in 1984.
2) If you're expecting to learn something about the product you're thinking about buying for several thousand dollars, you're not acting in your own best interests. Of course the dealer salesman will be more well-read than the teenager working at Lowe's, but living in the Information Age, every piece of information about a tractor from warranty terms to battery cold cranking amps is plainly published on the manufacturers' websites. Forgive the comparisons to automobiles, but purchasing a high-end mower isn't far off: When I bought my GMC I knew so much more about the vehicle than the dealers I spoke to and that's fine, because it's not like people grow up saying "I want to sell cars and I'm going to be the best car salesman out there." They couldn't get a real job so they sell cars. Fortunately the manufacturers put all the answers to our questions online so we don't have to rely on someone with a GED to ensure we make an informed $45k purchase.
3) If you're worried about not getting good service from a John Deere dealer after buying from a box store, I wouldn't be concerned. Even worse than buying from a box store, I bought my JD used, and I've had nothing but good service from my local dealer.
Good points Chris, but I will veer from one of your viewpoints: In 1984, all Cadillacs were pretty much crap. Sure they rode like land yachts (all but the Cimarron, which rode like a Cavalier with extra stuffing in the seats and doors... wait, that's exactly what it was). Sure they were big and luxurious by the standard of the day.
Times have changed, but some things stay the same. The wildly popular Escalade is a Suburban/Yukon with more stuffing in the seats and artery-clogging amounts of bling.
And they change some more... a fine example of automotive engineering and construction in those days was Mercedes-Benz. Now MB is a marginalized brand, still has some leftover cachet but has been plagued with QC issues, dealer arrogance, and inattention to customer needs.
Lexus/Toyota and their ilk today make what the market seems to be asking for. Bland, reliable, BORING boxes on wheels.
Didn't mean to go off the thread but your analogy caught my attention. I sold Cadillacs in those days of being a young college dropout (later returned to finish), and I am embarrassed... not because I sold cars, but because they were Cadillacs. Our service department got SO rich and fat off those Caddys...
Caddy Cimmaron was the same as a Chevy Citation not a Cavalier. Alas, both were a piece junk.
And a bigger, more compelling reason for Cadillac to re-badge the Citation (Cimmaron) was so Caddy would have a model in their lineup that complied with the "Corporate Average Fuel Economy (C.A.F.E.) requirements set forth by the U.S. Government. The C.A.F.E. rules required auto manufacturers to meet a specific miles per gallon rating for vehicles being built before the vehicles could be certified for sale inside the U.S. Every single model did not have to meet a specified MPG rating but ALL models offered, added together and averaged out, had to meet a specific MPG rating. For that reason, Caddy had to have something to offer that could "increase" their corporate average fuel economy rating "number". Any "extra" sales Caddy may have enjoyed by offering the "pauper dressed as a prince" bolstered "their case" in meeting the C.A.F.E. guidelines in this manner versus actually building a "real Cadillac economy car" from scratch. Caddy could only hope that some buyers would not see through the costume. But with some people, it wouldn't matter. You could explain how they were buying a Chevy at Cadillac prices and they would still say, "But it has the Cadillac emblem right there on the hood."
gary_fla, you are incorrect. I also sold Chevys at the same time as the Caddys and knew all three models well. The Citation and Cavalier were different cars, X and J body respectively. Cimarron was also J. See link below.
Citation was mostly junk. OK, so was Cavalier, but being entry level (could buy one around $9K IIRC in the mid-eighties) it was harder to fault the car at that price.
Come to think of it pretty much all GM in those days was junk (perhaps Corvette and some trucks excluded). The tradition of junk lasted for many years as most would agree. No idea if it is still part of the engineering equation as I stopped even looking at US-built cars a while ago.
What all this has to with tractors is getting harder to remember... Oh yes, a premium brand going downmarket. I have not much more than gut feeling to back this up, but I don't think the LA series fits the Cavalier-Cimarron model. It is more of expanding the customer base, which Mercedes did about 10 years ago with its M-Class. Of course, that turned out to be a QC disaster!
herus, thanks for your correction about the Cimmaron being the Cavalier (and not the Citation). I guess when it was posted by another member that the Citation was the base chassis I took that to be the correct story. I don't guess I should feel too bad though, I have heard some people relate that the ill concieved Cimmaron was a Chevy Vega in disguise.
Thanks for the anecdotes to back up my comparison... even though you state you disagree in the end, although I'm not sure you do.
I've never studied marketing so you'll have to bear with me here, but isn't "a premium brand going downmarket" and "expanding the customer base" the same thing? Since the most likely category of new buyers to attract are the short-arms-deep-pockets masses, that means bringing the overall product line downhill to position it within the larger market.
I think I see where you're coming from. We probably all agree that we won't be seeing many early 80s GM products at car shows 30 years from now (save for maybe a 145hp Z28), but while John Deere has cheapened their name with the box-store models, they have managed to maintain an uncompromised level of quality on the remaining 90% of their product line.
Thinking about what you said, marineguy. Agree that they can be seen as the same thing. I suppose my thoughts were geared more towards cheapening the brand name by compromising quality, which cheapening extends to the upper end of the line whether it deserves it or not.
It works both ways, of course. Lexus's presence, I believe, helped boost Toyota, esp the Camry which was perceived as the "poor man's ES300", rather than the other way around.
I think it comes down to corporate integrity, good design, and not just a little bit of luck. If JD made sure to build some quality into the LA line by using modern economies of technology and materials, notwithstanding the lower price point, it will emerge unscathed and probably stronger. If they back up field problems with immediate and unflinching, bend-over-backwards support for this line, it will convey the message that, even thought the product is cheaper, it is backed by the same high-end company.
Me? I purchased the LA120, just two weeks ago. Ten years ago, I purchased the M-Class. Although it had its share of problems, the dealership for the most part supported it well, and during the 90% of the time the car behaved well, it was a blast to own and I still have it. Would I buy another Benz? Maybe, if one of their current products excited me as much as the original ML did. Big picture, I don't regret that ML purchase, although there were certainly times I cussed a blue streak at it.
One thing the two purchases have in common. They started with the head, were taken over by the heart and that's when the decision was made. Finally, the heart had to be supported by the head again, and there were enough ways to make that happen. Rational? I hope not... it's about feeling good. As Mahatma Gandhi said: "As long as you derive inner help and comfort from anything, keep it."
Well said. It's funny how when your head gets temporarily lodged up your posterior, your heart takes over. It's those purchases that usually bring us the regrets--although we'd never admit it. But every man needs to have at least one in his life. For me it was my Kawasaki Ninja ZX-11 (fastest motorcycle on planet Earth at the time), which I bought brand new at age 19. The payment and insurance equaled about 50% of my income at the time. As a young, single Marine in Southern California (where it rains twice a year), it almost made sense. Two years later, as a college student in Pennsylvania, with tuition, rent, and paying for another all-weather vehicle on top of the motorcycle expenses, it would have been a significant financial burden for something only usable during the summer when it's not raining. Fortunately I wrecked it just before registration, and State Farm gave me $1,500 more than I owed on it!
Now I make it a point to thoroughly research and compare for all large purchases. I've literally been on the brink of making a purchase of several thousand dollars, check book in hand, and stopped in my tracks, realizing I don't know squat about diamond rings, carpeting, Southern turfgrass sod, and boats.
So rather than making a rash purchase, I went home and researched. In the end I made comfortable, informed purchases in 4 of the 5 instances--no boat. A big, gas-guzzling offshore cruiser doesn't exactly fit my plan for boosting the retirement and college funds, and spending more time on the weekends with my wife and kids (and less in the yard or garage).
Very long story short, Roland, if you research, compare and just sit and think about it for a month, and decide the 100 series is best for you... I think you should take another month (and keep an eye on the eBay listings in the meantime). Don't be enticed by the green and yellow paint!
herus, that was a great post! Well said.
I owned 5 Chevy Cavaliers and not one of them were junk.I owned two at one time for awhile.I no longer have a Cavalier.I now have Buicks and a Chevy Malibu.They ride much better then the Cavalier.But not one of the 5 Cavaliers ever let me down.
The way I see it if you do not suffer from small penis envy.You do not need a Big penis on wheels.You can then afford a real John Deere?From your local John Deere dealer.
IMO the Cavalier was a fairly priced NEW car considering the competition of the time. The Japanese cars of course had more than just a slight edge in quality and reliability, a diference that became more obvious with age on the cars.
IIRC, one could buy an Accord for around $10K in those days (circa 1984). I nearly purchased one in 1987 but got the Pontiac Bonneville for around 13.5K as I needed more room for a growing family. That Bonnie was a nightmare, and I often longed for that betrayed Accord and the $2+ K...and spent much time glaring enviously at the many grinning Accordians who seemed to constantly zip outside the waiting room at the Pontiac service department in their still-running rides.
There are probably a few of those (non-Rust Belt of course) Accords still running around today. Cavalier, I dunno. I'd be very surprised to see one standing on rubber and not cinder.
And oh - not sure I follow your penis analogy (or is it metaphor?) but hey, whatever turns you on, dude. Rock on!
Looked at a JS40 walk behind at Lowes yesterday, same exact one at JD dealer, is this not a John Deere?
This is my first day of retirement, from my past full time employment. Will have to rely on my past parttime (landscaping) for living money, thinking of adding grass maintenance to my landscaping since will have more time to devote to it. I may become a parttime cutter, wow, thats why I was looking at trimmers(JS40). JD dealers weren't open yesterday, you suppose that is why JD went to Lowes as a outlet for some equipment?
Well I got to go to work today - dress code is a little different than last week as a Mfg. Engineer, although I do get to set the hours along with mother nature.
I called lowes again and finnally got the extended warrenty straight!I paid for a 3 yr and getting just an extra year(3 years total).Bummer!i thought 5 yrs!but a good thing is that i dont pay for pickup and delivery which isnt covered in the regular JD warrenty.
Owning 5 Cavaliers doesn't say anything about your manhood, it just says that you have chronic bad taste in cars.
When I met my wife in college, class of '98 homecoming queen, I was driving a 12-year old VW Jetta (beige), so what does that say about your theory?
Now that I'm long past impressing my friends and attracting a mate, I buy equipment based on my needs (such as a slightly used JD 225 and a brand new Yukon XL 4x4). When I was much younger I wasn't concerned that people thought I was a poor cop's kid in my Kmart sneakers. Now I'm equally indifferent if people think I'm flaunting what I have.
I try to be loyal to manufacturers who strive to provide the customer with a quality product. Cheap crap has its place in our world. It's great that Wal-Mart sells $40 TVs so everyone can have one, whether you have a job or not. But when you look around and everything is made in China, even the 42" name-brand plasma screen you just bought from a local electronics dealer, something's wrong.
No the 100 series is not made in China, nor was the Cavalier, but they represent the bottom end of the product line. It depresses me that the bottom end is always the most popular line because so few people appreciate a quality product these days. It seems that eventually the good stuff is merely the better cheap stuff, and it becomes incredibly difficult to tell the difference between the truly good stuff and the better cheap stuff as you stare at a price tag in the lawn and garden section.
Add to that the contingent who buys the cheap stuff, knows it's the cheap stuff, then, surprised it actually met the low expectations, preaches to anyone who would listen that it was actually the greatest stuff ever.
With all that confusion (brand means practically nothing anymore, skewed reviews, etc) people completely forget that in the end you get what you pay for. What's the best tractor on the floor? Which is the most expensive? There you go. What's the best tractor under $1800? Probably the one priced at $1799.
The prices aren't arbitrary.
Chris! I dont think its that many people dont appreciate a quality product!its that many cant afford to buy much better (unless used).My wife and i are middle class!Saving for retirement,home morgage,taxes,kids,etc.We use coupons!wait for sales and try to spend wisely.For what im using a LT for a $1500 one should do the job.It is a gamble (roll of the dice)to see how long it will last to be true but if it does last a long time then thats $$ saved for other things needed in life.Ive had a very good record on buying !CHEAP stuff!.The computer desk setup i have here is about 20 years old and is still looking ok and doing the job.Never had to throw out a tv yet and some of those cheap models are 20 yrs also.God bless you if you can go out and buy top of quality stuff!But for me and others what we got is doing the job and the saveings help for retirement and other toys i might want that i couldnt do if i over extended. Stan
I know where you're coming from, as I'm facing the same expenses (but I've got another 15 years before I really have to worry about the college expenses and as long as I can stick out this Marine Corps gig for another decade I won't have to worry about the retirement). I certainly can't afford to buy everything I want, but I'm blessed in that I can afford to buy everything I need. Sometimes I buy things new, and sometimes I buy things used. I guess I'm not doing much to increase sales of higher-end consumer equipment when I buy things like a GT second-hand. But it's actually pretty rare that I buy something used, just because of the slim chance of finding the item I want in my geographical area. Sometimes it doesn't take more money to buy "the good stuff," you just need to look a little harder. Case in point was my Yukon. On the lot next to it was a similar model with pretty much the one option mine didn't have, memory seats, which would have been a good feature since my wife drives the truck from time to time and it's really annoying when she screws up the seat settings. But that one was made in Mexico, and mine was made in Janesville, WI. It would have taken a lot more than auto-adjusting seats to make me buy a Mexican truck over an American one. Maybe if more new truck buyers cared about the venue of final assembly, GM wouldn't be selling so many Mexican-American trucks (or Equinox minivans with Chinese built motors).
I grew up in a cheap-stuff family; we went through three riding lawn mowers, two push mowers, and three trimmers over a 10 year period. I actually thought pressure washer wands were only designed to last one season. One day, while working my way through college selling/installing tires, a man in his 60s walked into the shop, looking for tires for his sedan. I usually started at the bottom, and began spouting off the features of the General Tires, when he cut me off and said "Life's too short to buy cheap sh*t; show me the Michelins."
I'm as guilty as everyone else when it comes to buying cheap stuff from time to time. I show at Wal-Mart. And I just bought a Briggs and Stratton 5500W generator at the Home Depot which is not exactly what I'd consider premium equipment, but for the amount of use I expect to get out of it (only during blackouts), I couldn't justify a $1500 Honda-powered John Deere unit of the same size. It just annoys me that in most cases, we don't even have the option of buying stuff that's built to last a lifetime. Can you even buy a washing machine without plastic gears anymore? I wouldn't be surprised if "high impact resins" find their way into low-end mower transaxles in the near future, if they haven't already.
Happy Independence Day, everyone!
The reason I owned 5 Cavaliers was resale value.Most say they have none?But I paid around $12,000 to $15,000 for them and drove them around 5 years and got $5000.00 to $6000.00 trade allowance.I could have bought a $30,000 vehical drove it 5 years and got $15,000 trade allowance.I would not want to take a beating like that.Many are willing to however.
I hear ya! MarineGuy!You and everyone else have a great forth!Getting ready to pig out with lots of great food and brew.Im going to enjoy our birthday!freedom and liberty for all,plus its going to be nice to have the rest of the week off.
Some random thoughts:
When you're in your sixties, life IS too short for most stuff.
Not all low-priced stuff is junk, and not all high-priced stuff is excellent.
Driving five cars for five years means you put one year's worth of mileage on each (whatever your mileage may be). I doubt they were taxicabs (too small) so they were probably commuter cars. If you drove each for five years serially then it would have taken you 25, which is way longer than the product's life cycle. If you put only one year's worth of mileage on each on average, then of course you'd get pretty good resale.
Is buying Mexican or Chinese such a crime? The people there need to eat too. They breathe, drink, feel fear, pain, and hunger and love their families just like you do. Their skin may be brown or yellow but that skin sweats just like yours when the body works hard. When they can't feed their babies, their tears flow in frustration just like yours would.
Still not convinced? Don't forget it was the large multinational (accent on the word multi) corporation that decided American labor was too dear for their American-branded products. And still on the subject, who here is old enough to remember when Japanese-made was a joke? At least a few of you, I'm willing to bet. Now we pay through the nose for a Lexus and are happy to do so (not me and maybe not you, but a lot of people).
You missed buying the perfect vehicle because it was made assembled in Mexico... but do you think it's still sitting there? Nope... snapped up by your fellow American who "didn't know better".
Meanwhile, your American-assembled truck contains as much as 70% foreign-made parts. The gas it guzzles helps Arabs live like kings. Those same Arabs hire foreign (to them) engineers to help them coax that black gold from the bleak desert sand. Many of those foreign engineers are blond and blue-eyed Americans, who tolerate an uneasy life in a hostile land so they can send large proportions of their fat wages back to their eager and anxious families back home... yes, just like Mexicans here do.
I could go on... but the point is, the global village is here and it's now. Accept and embrace it or be left behind. Of course, if you're in your sixties, you probably don't have to care that much.
Nice Write-Up Herus! Im one of those who used to joke about Made in Japan! Always bought a Dodge car untill my last two which were a Toyota Echo and now a Toyota Prius.
If your in your 60's im not that old yet.But if you are you say you do not have to worry about it?I for one worry about my Grandkids.Its a shame they will be the ones that will have to deal with it.They will not have the same strong economic possibilities you or I had.Will China or Mexico etc care if they have to eat to?I dought it!Oh and 5 years is what I would have drove the $30,000 vehical also.You missed my point.Oh well buy what you want.Shop at Walmart and drive what ever just so the money goes to another country and does not stay here.If there is a war memoriol in DC for those who fought for your freedom.Then disgrace there honor by buying import products.They fought to keep Comunism from your land.Now you support China!Oh well were not far from it here as it is now anyway.With all the saftey and health Nautzis we deal with daily.You probably have a persian rug in your home also.Or soon will have?But do not expect me to buy into your sell us out program.I buy American when ever possible.Its getting very hard to do so however.Thats a sad thing to have happen.To be forced to buy import junk.
Many people believe that the manufacturing job decline in the U.S. is because those jobs are going to another country. China is often cited. While some jobs have been moved offshore, that isn't the main reason for the job decline...it's higher productivity.
Look at it this way. In 1900, 43.5% of the U.S. workforce was engaged in agriculture. By 2000, that number had dropped to 2.4%. Those lost farming jobs didn't move offshore...they simply disappeared. The same thing is happening to manufacturing.
While I was looking for statistical support for my point-of-view, I found a well written article making the same arguements. See below.
"America has been losing manufacturing jobs to China, Latin America, and the rest of the developing world. Right? Well, not quite. It turns out that manufacturing jobs have been disappearing all over the world. Economists at Alliance Capital Management in New York took a close look at employment trends in twenty large economies recently, and found that since 1995, more than 22 million factory jobs have disappeared.
In fact, the United States has not even been the biggest loser. Between 1995 and 2002, we lost about 11 percent of our manufacturing jobs. But over the same period, the Japanese lost 16 percent of theirs. And get this: Many developing nations are losing factory jobs. During those same years, Brazil suffered a 20 percent decline.
Heres the real surprise. China saw a 15 percent drop. China, which is fast becoming the manufacturing capital of the world, has been losing millions of factory jobs.
Whats going on? In two words: Higher productivity.
All over the world, factories are becoming more efficient. They've installed new equipment and utilized new technology. And that often means fewer jobs. Market reforms have also played a role. In China, new modern factories are replacing large, inefficient state-run plants. The result is that even as China produces more goods than ever before, millions of factory workers have been laid off.
Manufacturing is following the same path as agriculture. As productivity rises, employment falls because fewer people are needed. In 1910, almost third of adult Americans worked on farms. Now, fewer than 3 percent do. But American agriculture is the most productive in the world.
Similarly, global manufacturing output is rising -- since the mid-90s, up 30 percent-- even as worldwide manufacturing employment has been dropping. The two trends are directly related."
LOL, I have not tuned in here for a couple of years (probably two). This argument started when I joined four or five years ago, and I see it is still going on. Has fbeard or kromedome been around lately?
I understand that the 21st century American economy is based on global trade. A large portion of my investments are in international stocks, because as much as I care about the wealth of my nation, I care about the financial future of my family more. A lot of people count on Social Security to finance their retirement; I'm not one of them.
Please do not take offense to this, but I firmly believe that the attitude you describe is the excuse which makes it acceptable for big US corporations to take their manufacturing beyond our borders, rather than sticking it out on American soil, paying American wages, and abiding by American environmental laws. In the end, to 99% of the buyers, the "country of origin" matters not in the least. I am neither racist nor a xenophobic, but I can honestly say that I would not buy a Chinese product in good faith that I'm feeding little Chinese mouths, but I would absolutely purchase an overpriced American product over a comparable import for that exact reason. I care about my family first, Marines second, all other Americans third, westerners with American-like cultural beliefs and practices fourth, and beyond that, they're pretty much completely on your own. They will not get a dime of my money (directly) or an ounce of my compassion- it's all allocated among the first three groups.
Last week I bought a wire fish tape at Lowe's for $19.99, made in Los Estados Unidos, as the bi-lingual tag stated. There was one hanging on the hook next to it, which might have been a few ounces lighter but no doubt would have fished co-axial cable from my living room to my kids' playroom just as well, priced at $14.99. That decision took about six nanoseconds because it's pretty much a sub-conscious act for me to buy American.
I understand that with NAFTA and its predecessor, the Canada/US Free Trade Agreement, the term American Car took on a much broader meaning. I know the Mexican truck and the American truck are built from the same parts, and a lot of those parts are assembled in the same foreign factories. I also know that buying the Mexican truck would flush just as much money back into the American cash flow as buying the American. But the fact is the final assembly took place in the heart of America, by men and women raised and educated in our own public school system. I would tend to disagree that Mexican workers (who are not known for their high literacy rate) are as capable as American workers when it comes to assembling a vehicle as complex as a fully loaded, full size, four-wheel-drive SUV. Like I said, it makes a difference to me.
Mexicans are just a road trip or triathalon away from being Texans, Arizonans, or Californians, but the Communist Chinese are a different story. Remember Tiananmen Square? That was a few years ago, but the government censorship has not diminished. China is NOT a free country. They may look like some of us, but they are not like us. We fought them indirectly in Korea and Vietnam, and IMHO the next time our country floats amphibious ships stacked with tanks and helicopters off an unfriendly shore, if not the Iranians (Persians, for those who didn't get Johndeere's rug comment) we will find ourselves in an armed conflict with the People's Republic of China, whose emerging military strength--mainly ships and fighter jets--has been financed over the past three decades with our kids' Christmas presents.
But it's all cheap stuff anyway. Why should their ICBMs be any different?
Yes, I remember making fun of "Cheap Japanese" merchandise 20 years ago. I still wouldn't buy a Japanese car, but I've got quite an investment on Shimano XTR components on my handmade-in-PA (the frame anyway) Cannondale mountain bike. Some of the individual components (crankest, derailler, brakeset) cost as much as an entire Chinese-made mountain bike at Wal-Mart. And my dad is still cursing for trading in his fast, comfortable, reliable Gold-wing on a not-fast, not comfortable, not known for reliability Harley-Davidson Road King. Personally, I'd take the Harley in a second, but he's convinced the Honda was a better bike (for a little over half the price).
BTW: at age 60 I plan to be middle-aged.
I dont want to feel poor!but if everything was still manufactured here in the USA with our high wages i wouldnt be able to afford much on what my wife and i make in a year (middle class).I dont know what the solution is!but there has to be in order for this great country to last another 200+ years as it is today.I beleave that if it wasnt for cheaper labor elsewhere!inflation would be running wild these days,It may be its tame now because of lower costs.Now!! with all this said!I would love to keep all industry here in the good old USA!wish there was a simple solution without changing our way of life.PS!i think we are getting way off topic here (including me )and maybe we should find a better place to put this type of topic.
John Deere doesn't pay warranty work as well as for customer-paid work.
Why should dealer support John Deere sales to big box stores?
Folks buying John Deeres from big box stores should have known better. Oh well, they will learn the hard way.
John Deere will also learn the hard way selling an inferior product to the box stores. They might gain market share short term, but long term damage has begun to an otherwise excellent brand.
Today's Goldwings are assembled in Marysville Ohio and if you want a bike that will have the long distance touring comfort , handling , braking , and acceleration of a Goldwing , there simply is no comparable alternative made by Harley despite all the Japanese parts they're putting on them these days . A long distance ride on a Roadking will have you numb from the vibration and your back screaming in agony . And if you get stuck in a traffic jam in hot weather , be prepared to pull over to the shoulder when that antique design air-cooled engine overheats .
Unfortunately the Chinese car is coming to the U.S. , courtesy of Chrysler - link below . So you go out and buy Dodges or Chryslers your whole life to buy american and they go out and import Chinese cars . Seems like the american worker gets screwed over no matter what they do !
I would think the big box store sales translate into service sales for local dealers, no. I mean if HD or Lowes is selling 10X the number of units mom and pop sold, does that not mean a heck of a service business?
...and if they refuse these big box service calls, that will only be to the detroment of the JD name...which is there livelyhood.
There argument should be with JD? Maybe if they get together and refuse to service JD, it would get their point across.
I bought my LA130 from Lowes last year and am well pleased with it except for the drag links which are not adjustable. In talking with Deere, none of the new LA series are so it's not a product of a cheaper made tractor just a product of some engineer trying to save a few pennies foe JD. As far as service, no problem with big service shops. It seems as long as they make money on service, their happy.
Is it true that more foreign cars are built here in the US than domestics? (ie more Toyotas than Fords?...etc.)
Yes because Toyota sells more cars than Ford...now Ford is saying that their quality is on par with Toyota...well which one do you think will have better resale after 3-5 years ?
Has anybody noticed whether or not the engine in the HD & Lowes JD models are B & S or Kohler? Might tell a story!!
ok, so the old guy down the block is giving me a dirty look for driving a Toyota built in the US while his Ford is built in Mexico. Maybe Toyota should pack up and leave! Idiot!
the engines in the JD's i saw at Lowes today were B&S.
what are you saying that should tell us?
Wisconsin or... Wisconsin?
Why do people resurrect mangled, decaying, dead horses?
In the end, this down-the-rabbit-hole post would have been much more suited for www.edmnuds.com, so we let it die.
Yet, here it is again. Why?
OK everyone , lets be a little more careful what we post because it upsets marineguy.
NASCAR...Daytona 500..."THE GREAT AMERICAN RACE"
4 auto companies represented, Chevy, Ford, Dodge and Toyota.
Chevy, Dodge and Ford all built in Mexico or Canada.
Toyota built in the US.
Hard to believe...and i'm a union worker !!!!
I have a John Deere Sabar. I don't recommend buying a John Deere. I had 100 hrs on mine and I hade to have head gaskets replaced. Cost $220 which I should not have had to Pay. It has a 25hp kohler engine. Kohler had problems with the gaskets and was replacing then but the John Deere dealer didn't tell me and charged me for them.If you buy a John Deere most repair shops won't work on them because they have to buy all the parts from John Deere and don't get a discount on them. I now have 400+ hrs on mine and it smokes and uses oil bad. I want to rebuild it but I can't find repair parts on line. If I want to fix it I'll have to go to John Deere.
I Have a JS40,Can anyone please tell me how to change the oil,Thanks
outlooking heres the JS40 operators manual
New to this and deciding on what to purchase. Small grade and about an acre. Looks like the JD LA105 and the Cub Cadet LT 1040 are at the same price point. Would the JD be the better buy. Does CC service mowers purchased at HomeD. Over 3 years do you think I'll get more performance by the Kohler Courage in the CC or the JD B&S.
Tractor/engine make, no preference between them. Would instead focus on which dealer can serve you best now and later (would not recommend big box stores).
Cub Cadet or a JD dealer will be the one that actually service your machine. The L105 is a gear transmision the 1040 is a variable speed trans and is a two belt system. In the lower end I would look at the Cubs more that the deere L series just has some better features over the Deere and cub is starting to use briggs as well in there machines this year. Briggs are great reliable engines.
to my knowledge, the new cubs still use Kohlers.
Deeres answer to the low end market.
They want to compete with craftsman, wally world,
They know people want a John Deere in their garages.
They know lots of wannabe Deere owners will pay
for this type crap.
I have a real Deere, 15 years old.
I wouldn't trade even up for a new Lowes Low End mower.
The paint is the same color, the name is the same.
This is all they have in common
I work for Lowes so I can share a little bit of info. All of our John Deere's are maintained by the local dealer. When we recieve a John Deere tractor, it sits inside of its shipping cage until the local JD Dealer comes to take it out and prepare it for the sales floor. They are backed by our local dealer, and John Deere. Lowes does not do anything to the tractors that could void any sort of warranty. The ONLY thing Lowes associates do is wipe them off if they get dusty and move them around the store (either out front of the store or where they sit inside the department). It's nonsense to suggest we do things to void the warranty.
Jdowner some Cub Cadet 1000 series and one 1500 series GT will have briggs engines in them But most still have the kohler
I have a JD push mower. When I was at the local JD dealer getting a new blade I asked how he felt about Lowes selling JD's in competition with him. He said, "It's a win-win for me. On average, the person who buys from a big box store will not usually shop here, so I'm not losing a customer. We are the service company for all of the JD's sold at Lowes, so we get extra business."
FWWIW, tho, I haven't been too impressed with the service dept at this dealer...and I bought my mower from them.
Going on 3 years of ownership with my JD 115 Automatic (19hp B&S, 42" deck) and so far its performance, etc. has been flawless. And yes, we bought it from Lowes. I do get an occasional flyer from my closest Deere Dealer for service pricing/plans, but I try to do most myself. I skipped out on the extended warranty mainly because, I feel they are junk. If something doesnt have a 3-5 year warranty from factory, I find it useless to get an extended one, because they dont cover as good (just my opinion).
Hey jdowner, I got the same JD 115! Mine has been great too, I change the oil once a year at the end of the season, lube it up at least 2 times a year, and prepare it for winter as the manual states.
So far, I've done all the maintenance. If I have problems, I would bring it back to the dealer.
I bought mine from the local JD dealer, they game me free delivery and 2 hats : )
Bought a D-100 last week. I'll let you know how it is. First mowing went great.
Wow, here's an old one.
1) The Janesville built Yukon just turned 100k, still runs and looks like brand new. I wonder if its Mexican twin is still on the road.
2) The old GT225 is still a workhorse in spite of the overwork and abuse it endures. I just tilled up my garden last month and will put the deck on this weekend. My neighbor's L105 is in the landfill.
3) Toyotas are no longer considered reliable.
4) China has us by the financial balls. But at least we haven't invaded them yet.
All the 100 series tractors are crap. K46 transmissions will fail in 200-300 hours. Cost $600 to $1000 to fix. See http://www.jamesmaurer.com/john-deere-hydrostatic-transmission-fix.asp.
Join the class action law suit.
First off they don't all have K46 transmissions, the D160 and D170 do. I just bought a D140 from a dealer and asked that question. It has the K40. Again do your homework and you'll find the answers. I bagged leaves today for the first test of the D140. Worked great but I can't say I'm totally pleased with the bagger design but it does function. It's the way the bags are mounted and the top cover. Anyway, It is a real JD but built as a homeowner version, not commercial duty. The problems arise when you try to pull heavy loads or do a lot of uphill mowing. The tranny can't handle that. But If your cutting grass on a "normal" lawn they should last a long time. I bought from the dealer because I would rather give him the business than a large chain and he will gladly do any warranty work I may require. He also matched the price of Lowes with the 5% discount for using a CC. I like my JD dealer and have purchased from him in the past. Yeah I'd rather have the 300, 500 or 700 series but I'm only cutting grass and bagging leaves. I have ATV's and a JD 2320 for heavier work.