Briggs engine 402707

smiajJune 24, 2010

I have a Briggs engine on an early 90's wards mower that I need to find out how spring 232 from spare parts print attaches to the carb and or govenor. Does any one have any pictures thanks Smiaj

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walt2002

I THINK the spring in question is intended to pull the throttle to full idle. I could not find in the IPL where it connects, IF it is what I think it is, it attaches to a flat arm that sticks out to the left when facing the carb, this arm has a 90 degree bend in the very end with a hole in the bent part where one end of the spring attaches. IT MAY be pointing down in the upper left hand corner of ass'y 222. The other end attaches to a moving part of the throttle linkeage, a pivoting arm.

You can down load a Service Manual for this engine by going to http://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/

Walt Conner

    Bookmark   June 25, 2010 at 8:01AM
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smiaj

Sorry I miss typed and it should have been 422707. I don't see any holes for the spring to attach anywhere. I'm really
confused. I know it was there some where hooked up cause I remember seeing it just can't remember where.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2010 at 10:26PM
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tomplum

type # would be useful. I pulled 2 # and neither show that reference #

    Bookmark   June 26, 2010 at 12:40AM
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mownie(7)

Model number is nice, but model number and type number are better.
When you came back and said you had a 422707, I thought "Great, now if I can find part item 232, I might have a picture from my own 422707."
But, my IPL does not even have an item 232.
So, what spare parts list are you looking at?
If you have the print that came from MW, you are the only one who has it.
Post the type number of the engine, then go to the Briggs website (link below) and plug in the model & type number by following the instructions at the site. Then, choose "Illustrated Parts List" from the search results.
You can download the IPL and save it to your computer for future reference.
This way, everybody can look at the same, identical document (sort of like all singing from the same page in the hymnal).

Here is a link that might be useful: Source for Briggs IPL

    Bookmark   June 26, 2010 at 1:00AM
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walt2002

"I might have a picture from my own 422707."

Mownie, this is common to many if not all this series of engine. Can you not find the spring from my description of where it is? Left hand side of carb when facing carb, behind carb toward engine block, take picture.

Type is not a factor with this.

IF all else fails, check dealer's used lot, friends, neighbors for someone with a similar engine.

Walt Conner

    Bookmark   June 26, 2010 at 8:57AM
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walt2002

Well I THINK along with the wrong model number, the item number is wrong.

I THINK the spring is item #211 on page 8 of IPL ass'y 222 and the spring hooks in the bent end of the flat arm sticking out to the left. Other end? Goes where obvious.

Walt Conner

    Bookmark   June 26, 2010 at 9:43AM
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tomplum

I just wanted a control for an op twin myself. (fire) Would you believe they are NLA? Same control on a 94 and 99 modle engine and you have to pull one.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2010 at 10:27AM
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mownie(7)

OK Walt. Here are 2 pictures of the spring of the day as it is arranged on my 1987 Briggs, Model 422707, Type 06166 01, Code 87040712.
I still don't know where you and the OP are pulling those item numbers from, the IPL I have does not list any of the items you guys are citing (211, 222, 232).
I hope the images help.
The first image was shot from below and looking upwards.
Second image was from above and looking downward.
I labeled some items to use as visual references.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2010 at 1:11PM
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walt2002

Atta Boy Mownie! Which are you calling right side? Vacuum hose to fuel pump is showing, I am calling it left side as facing carb.

Walt Conner

    Bookmark   June 26, 2010 at 1:44PM
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mownie(7)

Walt, I'm calling it "the right side of engine" as if you are sitting in the operators seat. If you are standing in front of the engine facing the carb (as I sorta was) the spring is to the left of the carb assy.
My "habits" are showing through. Was taught from the beginning that 2 things are always referenced as though one was sitting in the operators seat or station.
(1) Left and right side of vehicle and all components of the vehicle, including the engine.
(2) Direction of engine rotation.

So, if there is a "standard" that applies to OPE engines, I would like to know of it.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2010 at 2:05PM
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walt2002

". (1) Left and right side of vehicle and all components of the vehicle, including the engine. "

While most car engines are mounted the same way (crosswise now) this model of b&S engines was mounted various ways, flywheel forward, flywheel toward the back, depending on the application.

Anyway, that should take care of that I need to save that picture as have had that question before.

Walt Conner

    Bookmark   June 26, 2010 at 4:11PM
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smiaj

422707 1510 01 sorry I didn't realize that briggs had so many different types. I can't even find the parts diagram that I got the number from now showing the spring so it may be incorrect with the more info we now have. anyways the spring in question fell off when the carb was removed it looks like the springs tied to the governor assembly are all still attached. I think walt is correct in having to do with idle control just can't figure out where/how it was hooked up. Thanks everyone Smiaj

p.s. the spring is a weak spring maybe 1 1/4" long with the same hook on both ends. maybe the size of a pencil round.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2010 at 11:45PM
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walt2002

Mownie's picture should make it clear. One end in eye or bent arm, other in little throttle linkage bell crank.

Walt Conner

    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 8:50AM
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mownie(7)

At least I have been able to view the correct IPL for this engine.
Is it possible the spring is item #629 of item # 203 on page 2 of the IPL? If this is true, it appears that the spring is but 1 of 3 options (depending on the configuration of engine controls for specific application).
I have posted an image of the bellcrank layout on my 422707.
We are running out of choices because my engine only has the 2 governor springs.........no springs on upper throttle control linkages.
I have also included a clickable link to the Briggs IPL for your engine.


Here is a link that might be useful: 422707-1510-01 IPL

    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 10:15AM
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smiaj

Mownie, it is very possiable that it could be spring 629 right now my carb is hooked up just like your last pic.
I'm assuming that the 2 earlier pics are of the same spring just different angles? if so (The machine is at home and I'm at work) from my memory my governor spring is connected just like the first 2 pics with another spring hooked up in like a protractor assembly hooked to the throttle cable. The spring in question came unhooked when the carb was removed from the bell crank- throttle shaft lever to clean the carb. the bell crank was never removed along with both linkages connected to it.
Thanks
Smiaj

    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 1:48PM
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mownie(7)

The spring shown in the excerpt from official IPL (first photo of my post dated 10:15 on 6/27) IS NOT the spring shown in the first two photos I posted on 6/26 at 13:11.

    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 2:37PM
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mownie(7)

To clear up any possible confusion about just which springs those were in the photos I posted 6/26/10, I have taken a couple more shots today to hopefully illustrate the relationship of those springs to the problem the OP is trying to solve. Some may note that I have "moved some things" out of their usual places to get a fuller, unobstructed view of the parts that need to be seen.
I may have muddied the water by raising the question about whether or not the OP's engine used a spring as one of the bellcrank links instead of an actual spring (as the IPL implies might be the case).


    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 6:35PM
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walt2002

Boy, those are good pictures! Way better than anything I have been able to find in the manuals. I am going to save those if it is OK.

Now all we need is to hear IF these are helping and if they are the right thing.

Walt Conner

    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 7:45PM
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mownie(7)

Walt, I hereby grant you (and everybody else), full and unrestricted permission to use any of my photos to your benefit (sign on the dotted line).

I hereby agree to accept Mownie's free offer.

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    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 8:40PM
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smiaj

wow that is exactly how my carb is hooked up right now. I just have an extra spring. I wonder now if it might have been just connected between the 2 linkages on the bell crank to store it until motor was mounted and decided which link they wanted to use in this application. I guess I will find out after I get my new bendex for my starter so I can see if I'm getting gas to the cylinders. It may just run fine.
Thanks Smiaj

    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 11:38PM
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mownie(7)

***"I wonder now if it might have been just connected between the 2 linkages on the bell crank to store it until motor was mounted and decided which link they wanted to use in this application."***

I wonder if maybe the "extra spring" was added (sometime after the engine had accumulated some hours of use) to one of the points of the bellcrank (along side the wire link) to take up slack in the linkage. If so, it might not even be a genuine Briggs part.

Slack fit due to wear can induce a bit of "hunting and surging" by the governor under certain operating conditions.
It is possible that someone added this spring from generic stock (aka "junk box under the workbench") in an attempt to cure a surging problem.
Smiaj, are you the original owner of this tractor? Or do you know any history of the machine ( ie: hand me down from relative maybe?) Or is the tractor something you acquired without any knowledge of its past?

Not wanting to say "I told you so", but stuff like this is what has made me a firm believer in taking a bunch of digital photos of any new (to me) piece of machinery before I ever put a tool to it. And take additional photos to chronical the teardown procedure. I have been known to "preach a sermon" to people about the need for mapping out what you are working on. So, I keep my little Canon close at hand whenever I'm getting into a "first time" project. I also keep a small supply of scrap paper for making a "placard" that can be set into the photo scene which will identify what the photo represents (left or right side, for example).
But it requires that you remember to take the pictures in the first place.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2010 at 11:01AM
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walt2002

Walt, I hereby grant you (and everybody else), full and unrestricted permission to use any of my photos to your benefit (sign on the dotted line).
I hereby agree to accept Mownie's free offer.

------------------ X
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    Bookmark   June 28, 2010 at 4:35PM
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smiaj

Yeah I assembled the mower when new and used it to blow snow and mow with over the last 19 years. the only problem I ever had with it has been a new starter once and a new coil once. Right now all the linkages for the mower deck are very sloppy cause they use some of the same linkages for lifting the snow blower. The tractor doesn't owe me anything and is getting very close to being replaced.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2010 at 10:14PM
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smiaj

well I now have the machine back together(starter) and other than a few minor adjustments to the main needle valve the machine runs like it always has. I do think that the spring must have been in a storage position. I mowed my grass anout 8" deep after 2 weeks and had no problems at all.
thanks everyone
Smiaj

    Bookmark   July 2, 2010 at 9:55AM
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mownie(7)

You are welcome Smiaj, we like a happy ending.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2010 at 10:20AM
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