Thomas Affleck

jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.May 8, 2014

Ordered a Thomas Affleck rose hoping it would do well with blackspot around here. But when I opened the box after it arrived today it was full of BS. Gee hope that isn't a bad sign...lol

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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

It would not be a bad sign to me. I do not spray ever. Sometimes roses that are pretty resistant to black spot, get it due to circumstances. Thomas Affleck is great for me. I would not worry about the black spot, but possibly would call the vendor to ask what made that happen.

When you purchase from a certain vendor regularly, I think it is good to maintain contact with them. You can learn a lot when you ask those relevant questions.

If you do call the vendor, I hope you share the information with us.

Sammy

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 5:46AM
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prairielaura(6b)

Thomas is an excellent rosebush...i bought two in Texas, put them in big pots, moved them to the mountains of NC the following year. They have survived in the pots through a really bad winter and are starting to bloom. I don't recall any blackspot episodes, and i have lots of it here! Your blackspot problem may have been a shipping issue...too warm and damp in transit?

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 10:16AM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

I just planted Thomas Affleck to see how he does here. Thinking about it Thomas probably did get BS during shipment. I sent a clean rose bush to Kansas from Pa once and it arrived with BS...

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 9:50PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

By the way thanks you two for the encouragement. I have always read Thomas is a good rose and that's why I bought it to try... :)
I'll update on Thomas later toward fall...

    Bookmark   May 9, 2014 at 10:07PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

When I recieved Thomas Affleck in the mail half the leaves had BS on them. I left them on to feed the plant since it was a new rose...
Since then the rose bush has dropped all the BS leaves and many new nice looking leaves have taken there place.
Thomas Affleck is clean and has very healthy looking leaves right now! :-)
I will update at the end of the year...

This pic was taken 7 days after I planted TA... May 15th 2014

This pic was taken today... June 8th 2014

This post was edited by jim1961 on Sun, Jun 8, 14 at 15:22

    Bookmark   June 1, 2014 at 9:56PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

Sorry taking so long to get back Sammy...

I wrote to company that I got Thomas Affleck off of and below is there response...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dear James,

Roses in shipping boxes are prone to this. Roses are naturally deciduous and readily drop there leaves in the stress of shipping. Blackspot is an opportunistic pest that takes advantage of this environment.

Roses should continue to thrive now.

Thanks, Mike"
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas Affleck is doing real well now with flawless leaves and getting ready to bloom for the first time since I planted him on May 8th... TA has about 8 flower buds at the present time.

This post was edited by jim1961 on Tue, Jun 10, 14 at 19:44

    Bookmark   June 10, 2014 at 5:45PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

First Thomas Affleck bloom since I planted TA...
It rained really hard last night so had to hold up the bloom to take a pic...lol

    Bookmark   June 12, 2014 at 9:16PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

TA has been showing some signs of powdery mildew...
Hopefully he outgrows that problem.
This TA gets about 9+ hours of sun per day.
TA planted May 8th 2014 is blooming away at the present time...

    Bookmark   June 23, 2014 at 11:00AM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

TA still battling some PM and also has BS spreading a bit again but still doing ok overall... Only time will tell how well it does in our no spray garden...
Blooms last approx 72+ hours on the bush...
Hotter days probably less...


This post was edited by jim1961 on Tue, Jul 1, 14 at 19:04

    Bookmark   June 30, 2014 at 9:33PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

Just updating this thread so I can keep track on how this rose does and I will have all the details and pics in one place so I can find them easily.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 8, 2014

TA still has touches of PM here and there...

Blackspot has continued spreading throughout the bush again. I notice some leaf drop so far but not much.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 1:39PM
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johnnycabot(Z4b MI.)

Jim, I think I would be appalled if I had opened a box from a grower which contained a rose with BS. I would feel they had sent me a bad plant! Good to know. Your TA looks wonderful in spite of his shaky start. I see he is planted away from other roses so his situation did not affect any others. I use my camera a lot also especially to learn what or how time affects results.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2014 at 4:00PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

That's actually the first rose I've ever gotten that had BS when it arrived here JohnnyCabot.

Just updating: Thomas Affleck still has BS spreading a bit BUT only minor leaf drop so far. Just some minor touches of PM also. TA starting to get some new growth which will be setting more buds here soon...


    Bookmark   July 12, 2014 at 4:37PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Give it another year, and I'll bet TA will be one tough rose fighting off disease and blooming well!

Myself, I pluck off the leaves with blackspot on them when they start turning yellow or if a green one gets a particularly heavy attack of BS. Looks neater and less chance for the BS to spread itself around that way.

Kate

    Bookmark   July 12, 2014 at 5:54PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

I hope so Kate! Thanks! Time will tell...

    Bookmark   July 13, 2014 at 1:54PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

I am not pulling Blackspot infected leaves off the bush or doing any type of cleanup and no spraying of any type.
I like to see just how resistant a rose is without much fussing...

July 25, 2014

Thomas Affleck still fighting off Blackspot and PM. Both diseases are getting worse and more and more leaf drop is occuring.

BLACKSPOT:

POWDERY MILDEW:

OVERALL: From a few feet away the bush still looks good...

This post was edited by jim1961 on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 11:54

    Bookmark   July 25, 2014 at 11:45AM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

Thomas Affleck loading up with flower buds and should bloom soon... (Second flush since I planted.)

Thomas Affleck appears to not like our climate very much...
But like others have mentioned it may do better next year after it throws out some larger roots.

Still fighting Blackspot and Powdery Mildew problems here in latter July. I did clean up fallen BS leaves from under TA on July 26th 2014...
We been having some cooler days and nights lately.
Couple nights dropped into the upper 40's here in July.
We have had decent amounts of rain through July also.
This year is a good test for roses to see how resistant they are from fungal diseases...Because rose leaves are constantly went from either rain or our heavy dews...

Thomas Affleck was bred more for Texas so I'm thinking it may just be a bit too wet for him here in our region...
But we will see...

    Bookmark   July 28, 2014 at 7:51PM
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farmerduck

Jim -- I went to the Peggy Rockefeller Rose Garden in the Bronx two weeks ago. Most of the roses have few or no blooms on them, and TA is an exception. The garden is non-spray. TA seems happy and healthy there. I think you got a great rose.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2014 at 8:04PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

First bloom of Thomas Afflecks second flush...

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 1:17PM
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boncrow66

Your TA is so pretty, I hope it outgrows it's BS and PM for you. I live in a very humid area of Texas so I wonder how he would do for me with BS. Almost all of my roses get a touch of BS at some point, some worse than others. I used to spray but found it really didn't work for me so I have had a no spray garden for a few years. I usually keep the BS leaves picked off as best I can and try to keep it clean under the rose and let it run it's course. I may have to try TA one day. I have enjoyed your thread an watching him grow.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 8:03PM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

Hey Jim,

I cab't respond to the message you sent because your GW email is blocked.

Michael

    Bookmark   August 1, 2014 at 11:14AM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

boncrow66 , Thomas Affleck was bred for Texas so he would probably do well in Texas... Rose leaves here are wet a lot from rain and our heavy dews...

farmerduck, I have no doubt Thomas Affleck is a good rose but so far there is something here TA just doesn't like I guess...TA does look happy in NY!

Michaelg, you can post the answer to my question here if you wish...
I'll try to fix my problem

Michael you should be able to contact me through Gardenweb now...

This post was edited by jim1961 on Fri, Aug 1, 14 at 19:26

    Bookmark   August 1, 2014 at 6:31PM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

I'm very interested in the source of the information that the NYGB has gone no-spray. I've found a lot of references to minimizing spraying, and using IPM, but nothing but Gardenweb rumors saying they don't use fungicides. Given the lists of what roses they are trying to grow, I just can't imagine trying to grow those anywhere near here without a good spray program.

    Bookmark   August 1, 2014 at 6:44PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

Right now TA has 11 buds and 3 blooms starting its second flush... TA had one other bloom but it fell off...

    Bookmark   August 2, 2014 at 5:34PM
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farmerduck

Mad-gallica -- Good question. I talked to a person working there a few years ago, and she said that the garden is non-spray. But I recall that she is a volunteer, not one of the regular staff. (At the Cranford garden, I was told they spray, but only "minimally". I believe that lady was the resident Rosarian).

I have also seen roses ravaged by disease at the NYBG rose garden later during the season too, so I have always been under the impression that they don't spray. I saw quite a few roses affected by blackspot even two weeks ago whiel I was there. I just went to their website, the video on their home page says that they plant varities that "eliminate the need for harmful chemcials and fertilizers". That is diferent from saying they don't use them at all. Youl could be right.

Guess that I need to track down the rosarian to confirm next time I go there.

    Bookmark   August 2, 2014 at 7:50PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

Yes please try to find out famerduck.... A big Thanks!

    Bookmark   August 2, 2014 at 8:26PM
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farmerduck

Mad-Gallica,

It is more likely than not you are technically right. I just saw a 2012 NYT article, which says the follows:

"Since his campaign began, the use of fungicide, once sprayed liberally to eradicate black spot, a common disease of roses, has fallen by 86 percent."

Sorry, I might have been unknowingly spreading half truth on this forum. Thanks for calling this out, and now I know better. I wonder how much they spray now.

Here is a link that might be useful: NY Times

    Bookmark   August 2, 2014 at 9:20PM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

It would be nice to be able to find out what their current care regime does consist of. You would think they would want the public to know - both as an explanation of why their roses don't look 'perfect', and to educate people that you don't have to spray roses daily.

Then there is the problem of where that 86% number comes from. Let's say, for example, they were previously spraying fungicides and insecticides weekly, and counting that as 8 sprayings. Then the eliminated the insecticide spraying, and only spray fungicide once a month. Curiously enough, that works out to reducing the spraying by 85.5%, rounding to 86%. It is still a fairly long way from a no-spray garden, however.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2014 at 2:54PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

Temps have been averaging 75-80 degrees during the daytime hours the past few days with nightime temps in the 50's...
Thomas Affleck blooms have been lasting approx 2-3 days on the bush in these conditions...

    Bookmark   August 4, 2014 at 5:39PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

Aug 14, 2014

I had to strip Thomas Affleck of all his leaves terrible blackspot on every leaf and terrible Powdery Mildew has the younger leaves curling and falling off...
Poor rose has been fighting off these two diseases almost all season...

It sort of shocked me with the mildew as I have NOT seen mildew on any rose, plant, shrub for the past 20 years since I lived here...

    Bookmark   August 14, 2014 at 9:35PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

Yes, as a no fungicide gardener, I've often wanted to claim the NYBG's rose garden as an example of a no spray success, but I've never been able to find a supporting statement.

There are statements such as these:

"The Peggy Rockefeller Rose Garden is being transformed into one of the most disease-resistant gardens of its kind. Roses have a reputation for being disease prone and difficult to grow. Over the past 20 years, rose hybridizers around the world bred and selected roses for disease resistance. Since 2009, high-maintenance roses in the Rose Garden have been replaced with more than 3,500 new, hardy roses, chosen for disease resistance, long flowering time, and easy care."

Found on: http://www.nybg.org/gardens/rose-garden/

And:

"And so the Garden has adopted best practices for horticultural care throughout the grounds, among which is the use of integrated pest management, a method of protecting plants from pests and pathogens with the least environmentally harmful techniques available. The Garden has switched to using only organic fertilizer, which is more beneficial to soil health than synthetic applications, and also composts all plant-waste materials -- some 1.4 million pounds per year -- and uses the compost generated to keep plants healthy, a first line of defense."

Found on: http://www.nybg.org/sustainability/horticulture.php

"protecting plants from pests and pathogens with the least environmentally harmful techniques available"

That statement sounds heroic, but is sadly vague.

    Bookmark   August 14, 2014 at 11:50PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

Well back in mid August I striped all the diseased leaves off of Thomas Affleck which was all of them! (Naked!)
(Blackspot and Powdery mildew)

The leaves slowly grew back and so did the BS and PM!
My conclusion is this rose is very disease prone in our no spray garden here in Central Pa so I'm shovel pruning it in the Spring and giving it to my friend who lives in the country as he has tons of extra space for plants...

    Bookmark   September 25, 2014 at 4:42PM
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boncrow66

Sorry to hear that, I was hoping it would work out for you, it's such a pretty rose.

    Bookmark   September 25, 2014 at 7:10PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

It's just not to be boncrow66... lol
Actually I do not get to upset anymore when a rose bush doesn't work out. I just move on to the next ones...lol

I'm going to be trying 3-5 new roses next year in our no spray garden enviroment so I'll be creating another thread next year for those roses...

This post was edited by jim1961 on Thu, Sep 25, 14 at 20:40

    Bookmark   September 25, 2014 at 8:26PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

My sister passed away this past May and her house has been sold so last week I dug up a Miniature Rose that was in her yard and transplanted it into our yard...
I have no idea what the rose is called but it had zero blackspot and it was a rose of my sisters so I will cherish it no matter what!

This post was edited by jim1961 on Thu, Sep 25, 14 at 22:53

    Bookmark   September 25, 2014 at 10:52PM
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queenjillybean

I live in Austin, Texas and planted a TA from the Antique Rose Emporium this spring- in May, and it was also my most unhappy rose this season. Lots of PM, BS and general malaise. It is happiest when not a single drop of water touches it when watering (which I am not always the best about)... It also did not like full, intense sun, where my many other cultivars do. It is finally seeming to be the happiest I have seen it, now that the temps have subsided. I must say, that despite the issues I had, it was constantly putting out new growth. It did not give up, when I was certain it was kaput. I am holding out hope that it will continue to improve now that it has stronger root system. I just went out and checked it, and currently it is clear of any BS or PM.

    Bookmark   September 26, 2014 at 1:46PM
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jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

This Thomas Affleck is by our front porch steps so it is the center of attention...SO not happening...lol

My friend has a lot of property so he takes all my roses that get badly diseased here... That's good for me as I can look at there habit over the years he has them...

We get a lot of rain here and dew settles on the leaves every night so rose leaves are constantly wet...

But some roses do not care and still remain "NEARLY" BS free... Those are the roses I seek out..

This post was edited by jim1961 on Thu, Oct 9, 14 at 23:10

    Bookmark   September 26, 2014 at 2:04PM
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