Briggs and Stratton 16 HP not charging tractor battery

andy99July 26, 2008

Hi

I am new to the forum. I have a tractor mower with a 16 HP Briggs and Stratton engine. Lately it can suddenly begin misfiring and when I go to restart I find the new battery flat. Why is the machine not charging the battery and is the misfiring due to the lack of charge in the battery

regrds

Andy

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bill_kapaun

It's always useful if you post the tractor details and what Model & Type Briggs you have.

IF the engine has a fuel cutoff solenoid, low voltage can cause it to disengage, shutting off fuel through the carb Main Jet.

What color are the wires coming from under the engine shroud? Red, Black, Yellow?
How many of each color? That info can help guide you through a trouble shooting procedure.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2008 at 7:15PM
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andy99

The model 16 HP Vanguard Briggs and Stratton NO 280777 Type 0675-EI code 98031620--pretty sure thats the Model -its difficult to read. Red and black wires coming from under cowl. This morning having taken off solenoid on carb engine will not start and I found cylinder full of petrol when I opened plug. Any ideas??
regards
Andy

    Bookmark   July 27, 2008 at 3:38PM
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walt2002

"The model 16 HP Vanguard Briggs and Stratton NO 280777"

You seem to have a bunch of troubles if this is a legitimate post. First off, a model 280777 B&S is not a Vanguard.

The cylinder being full of gas indicates the carb float needle valve is leaking and will keep the engine from turning over due to hydro lock. Float needle may need replacing, there may be contamination lodging under float valve not letting it seal good. You should check oil for being over full not with gasoline leaking into it and change the oil. Anyway, you need to add an in line fuel shut off valve and use it when the engine is not running.

Bill gave you a probable on the miss. I'll leave it to Bill to tell you about the wire colors you have.

Walt Conner

    Bookmark   July 27, 2008 at 4:12PM
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bill_kapaun

A 280777 is definitely NOT a Vanguard! It's a flat head engine.
Possibly a 28Q777? That's an Intek though.

It sounds like you have 2 different problems.
The carb needle & seat aren't sealing, allowing fuel to keep running through the carb and into the cylinder and then the crankcase.
The fuel cut off solenoid has NOTHING to do with that! It only blocks the Main Jet when off, to prevent fuel/air from being drawn into the engine when the engine is shut off to prevent after fire.
WHY would you remove it?

The alternator charging (or not) is a separate issue-
RED & BLACK wires is the Dual Circuit alternator.
It should have a WHITE connector with a raised rib on one side.
That side is a nominal 2-4 AMP DC output to charge the battery. The other side is an AC output to power the headlights.

You'll need a voltmeter to test.
Unplug the connector.
With the engine running, measure the voltage on the DC side, using both the DC AND AC ranges on the meter.
It should show around 14ish VDC and negligible VAC.
IF 0 volts on both, the diode is open or the stator is "toast". IF any appreciable ACV, the diode is shorted.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2008 at 4:53PM
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andy99

Thanks a lot for your detailed help. The model is definitely a Vanguard but the Model nos are difficult to read-Possibly ea0777. Anyway I will try out your suggestions and get back to with results. By the way the mechanic took off the shut off solenoid and replaced it with a bolt which is leaking--more problems. however I saw someone on this forum suggesting this was not a bad idea??
Anyway if I had found this forum earlier the mechanic might not have changed out the battery and run up labour costs which now seem to have been waste of money.
regrds
Andy

    Bookmark   July 28, 2008 at 2:46PM
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bill_kapaun

I would expect a 16 HP Vanguard to be a 30xxxx Model.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2008 at 5:38PM
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andy99

I have taken the carb apart-took out the carb needle. I cleaned everything and reassembled the carb. I had to change the oil as it had petrol in it. The engine has now run fine for a whole hour while mowing. It looks like the advice above was correct--thanks a lot. By the way the starter solenoid also needed replacing recently--are they fixable if you take them apart?? What causes them to fail?? My mower got a good wetting recently--would that do it??
Andy

    Bookmark   July 30, 2008 at 3:35AM
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njdpo

those solenoids just go bad - can be a number of reasons for that ... sitting outside frozen in the winter, infrequent usage, excess wear and corrosion, etc...

trying to open one up and fix it will work occasionally (if you have absolutely nothing better to do...). Most are built in such a way that they are not easily serviceable as they must be drilled out - in order to close them back up you have to get creative ... riveting them back together results in frequent cracking of the housing ... The idea of rebuilding them on your own starts to look like a complete waste of time.

My experiences have been that while some of them will work again with a cleaning and reassembly - ultimately your time will be best rewarded by simply replacing them.

the last one I replaced was somewhat exposed to the rain and snow (the machine sits outside)... when i put in the new solenoid - I used a scrap milk jug to make a crude shroud over the unit to protect the unit from the elements... It works well.

good luck

    Bookmark   July 30, 2008 at 7:49AM
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johnnybravo_softhome_net

Actually the fuel solenoid has ALOT to do with the cylinder filling with fuel..When this sol. goes bad and sticks in the open or "pulled" position, it allows the fuel to flow by and into the intake port ... The needle valve will never seat when it is stuck in this position because the bowl will never get filled.. Have seen this many times..

    Bookmark   August 17, 2009 at 8:44PM
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mcscheck

Also the fuel eventually makes its way into the crankcase through the crankcase vent causing it to overfill. To test it ... Energize the solenoid - the valve should pull. then release power and see if the valve moves back to the fully extended position. If bad it will usually stick pulled. Just a slight tap on it will return it usually but this is still BAD..

    Bookmark   August 17, 2009 at 8:55PM
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mownie(7)

***"Actually the fuel solenoid has ALOT to do with the cylinder filling with fuel..When this sol. goes bad and sticks in the open or "pulled" position, it allows the fuel to flow by and into the intake port"***
That is ALOT of baloney. The fuel solenoid only seals off the carburetor MAIN JET. The carburetor pilot jet is not closed by anything and will flow gas into the intake when the needle valve fails to close off the fuel from entering the carburetor.
***"The needle valve will never seat when it is stuck in this position because the bowl will never get filled.. Have seen this many times"***
More baloney. When the carburetor is functioning correctly, the float rises up and shuts off the needle valve long before the fuel level is high enough for fuel to flow out of the carb, whether the solenoid valve is open, closed, stuck, or non-existent. The solenoid valve has absolutely no influence on the float height or fuel level in the bowl.
The fuel solenoid is present for only one reason. That reason is to prevent, or minimize, the "afterfire" bang or loud pop that occurs when an engine is shut off hot. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Bookmark   August 18, 2009 at 1:59AM
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walt2002

Well mownie is right on this of course. It is really amazing the amount of mis-conception there is about that simple little carb solenoid.

If one gives me a problem, I take it out block the plunger or replace the solenoid with the plug used in some applications.

Walt Conner

    Bookmark   August 18, 2009 at 8:28AM
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schbbs_bigpond_com

Hi,

I have a 16hp Briggs & Stratton that back fired while mowing and will not run now, Will start at idle and then stop, Have to move throttle up and downn while cranking to make it start,Have pulled the fuel soleniod out and it moves in and out freely when turning on the key, There is fuel all the way into the fuel bowl at soleniod. Model is 28777 and type is 0639A1.

Any help would be good.

Thanks Mick

    Bookmark   December 11, 2010 at 2:54AM
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tomplum

MIck, I would personally see if it will run up on bursts of carb spray through the carb venturi. If it does, that tells you you need to dig further into cleaning the carb, changing out fuel etc. If it doesn't, the next thing would be to try a new spark plug. Beyond that, pull the valve cover and check for excessive looseness. Common issues from loose rockers, bent or dropped out pushrods will do this. Is it cranking over fine or taking some effort? Keep us posted.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2010 at 11:43AM
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schbbs_bigpond_com

It has a new spark plug, it cranks over easly starts at idle know worries,Can get throttle on about 1/4 before it starts to die, move throttle back tidle and it runs there. Have pulled the rocker cover off and the the rods are fine not bent.has got new fuel in it as well

    Bookmark   December 15, 2010 at 12:25AM
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mownie(7)

Mick, I don't think you understand exactly what tomplum is suggesting you do with the spray carb cleaner.
Because your symptoms sound like insufficient fuel, the carb cleaner is used as an alternate source of fuel to determine if the engine CAN run up to a higher RPM.
So, you want to have that can of carb cleaner to spray into the carb while you open up the throttle.
You say you can coax about 1/4 throttle opening before it starts to die. Do that and when it starts to die spray a burst of carb cleaner into the carb and see if the RPM will increase.
If you are able to get more RPM out of the engine this way, then the problem is in the carburetion, likely something like a solid piece of debris has lodged itself into the main fuel jet.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2010 at 1:17AM
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rustyj14(W/PA)

I got a call from a friend, who said his lawn tractor wouldn't start. So, i went to see.
I checked for fuel, good. Battery: Good. Fuel flow: Good. Clogged line? No. --HMMM. Removed solenoid from fuel bowl-found it clogged and stuck with dirt and rust. Cleaned it out, put it back in and it started and ran well.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2010 at 3:44PM
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ltflannel_bigpond_com

I don't know what you guys base your info on but maybe you need to tell B & S your theories on their numbers. I have sitting in my yard in Australia a mower with a Briggs and Stratton 15 Hp Vanguard OHV engine and the model number on this new condition motor is clear and is definitely 2807777. Maybe this is a number used on export engines maybe there is more baloney on the menu but andy99 you are probably correct with your number reading.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2011 at 9:58PM
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ltflannel_bigpond_com

I don't know what you guys base your info on but maybe you need to tell B & S your theories on their numbers. I have sitting in my yard in Australia a mower with a Briggs and Stratton 15 Hp Vanguard OHV engine and the model number on this new condition motor is clear and is definitely 280777. Maybe this is a number used on export engines maybe there is more baloney on the menu but andy99 you are probably correct with your number reading.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2011 at 10:01PM
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abeci25_yahoo_com

I have a 17hp briggs modle#960120100/po17542lt.I wont idle like it should.sputters alot,once in a while it will idle well but not offten or for long.when its stetters it lets out black smoke.please help

    Bookmark   June 6, 2011 at 10:58PM
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