Growing Hickory and Hican for Nut Production (3)

gardener365(5b Illinois USA)May 15, 2014

Continuing from part 1 and 2
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Good looking color on that late starter, treebird.

Dax

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fusion_power

I've put in about 30 grafts so far of pecan and hickory varieties, some from scionwood treebird sent.

Kanza - cleft graft on a 2 inch diameter seedling in my yard, buds have broken, looks like this one is going to make it.

Prilop of Lavaca - cleft graft on a 2 inch diameter seedling in my yard, buds have popped, but no active growth yet.

Miss L - whip graft on a 1/2 inch diameter seedling in my yard, buds unchanged since graft

Gafford - on a 8 inch diameter tree beside my house, buds have popped, but no growth yet

Giftpack - on several seedling trees in my garden, buds have broken, but not out of the woods yet.

The rest are on seedlings in a nursery row at the edge of my garden. About 2/3 look like they will make it.

    Bookmark   May 17, 2014 at 9:26AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

That's great!

I'm going to have really low percentages here. I'm seeing my first of my second batch push thru the wax as of the last 2 days.

About 7 days ago most of the rootstocks had little buds appearing that I rubbed off.

All my wood was from Gary's pecans and the ortet Hark pecan and everything sustained cambial damage and will need time to repair the vascular tissue from last winter... Gary didn't even graft this year for that reason alone. He was considering doing a few after the videos we made. Those scions we grafted for the videos came from Connecticut, (2) 'NC-4'.

Dax

    Bookmark   May 18, 2014 at 4:47AM
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treebird101

Glad to hear your grafts are going forward fusion. Dax, you're going to have to hook me up with a hark tree for my pecan orchard. Those were some excellent nuts you sent. It doesn't seem like it's a very heavily circulated cultivar. I think it should be more widely planted. I just hope its fairly cold hardy. My Mandans are gonners but Kanza and Peruque are going strong. I noticed no freeze damage to the cambium and we got as low as -24 this winter here in Iowa. The hicans are also not affected by the extreme cold. It seems like its taking a long time to get warm and stay warm this year. we had a record breaking 100 degree day here in southwest Iowa a week and a half ago and then we got a frost here 3 days ago. It hammered some garden plants good and also every heartnut that had CW before the number including a bunch of CW3 seedlings. My Simcoe 8-2s and Imshus are still going strong. Pecans were unaffected by the frost too. It got as low as 26 in some parts but only reached 30 here.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2014 at 5:28AM
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treebird101

Just wandering if anyone has a Keystone shellbark hickory growing? I received a tree from Grimo Nut Nursery that has 5 leaflets, very uncommon in Shellbarks but most common in Shagbarks. I contacted Ernie Grimo and he said his parent Keystone cultivar has 5 leaflets just like mine. Keystone is documented as a shellbark hickory but I am confused by the number of leaflets on the tree I received. Thanks

    Bookmark   June 4, 2014 at 12:34AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

I will for sure hook you up with a Hark. Totten and I drove to Clarence IA last week to visit Kelly Nursery to buy pecan seedlings and I have 125 for next year. I've heeled them into a temporary bed and will bench graft them with this!.....

Fieldcraft Topgrafter

Let me tell you... this tool is incredible. Just as good as Gary's homemade grafting tool I'm about to show you. Gary's an old die & cast man and built his own having the blades only along with an intact 70's grape grafters tool to look at and to go off of:

Grafting Pecans with Machined Tool

Bark Grafting Pecans in The Field

My pecan grafts are still coming along real slow.... only 3 of 19 have broke this far. 1 just breaking 3-5 days ago.

Dax

    Bookmark   June 4, 2014 at 8:29AM
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treebird101

Nice tool Dax. It looks like you can definetly do surgery with that thing.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2014 at 11:35AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Another pecan broke this morning. The bud scales are separating.

It's the right tool. We all know that story... for the job.

Dax

    Bookmark   June 4, 2014 at 1:02PM
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treebird101

Well, lf you have so many Hark trees that you don't know where to plant them, I have plenty of room. I'm cheering more trees on for success. My hickories were pushing forth and then that frost came and put everything on hold. It might actually turn out to be a poor year for grafting for me. Even worse, I went to do some re-grafting and found my wood was out in the tool shed unrefrigerated for 2 weeks. Bummer

    Bookmark   June 6, 2014 at 12:01PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

We'll just have to see this year. I have already removed trees and shrubs to accomodate (3) Hark and (1) Mullahy. I also bought from Nolin River Nursery and is planted: 'Dumbell Lake' which Gary Fernald told me is better than the Warren 346 I had on hold. Gary also stated that his selection of 'OC-1' will pollinate Dumbell Lake and I have I believe 1 or 2 of OC-1 grafted, but no push on those, at least not yet. I have a spot where a Starking Hardy Giant was for the 'OC-1'. As luck would have it I dropped a 70' poplar right on it. Glad I did. Next time I get chainsaw happy I'm going to dig up anything that could be in range of the fell tree however, and put it back after! I almost feel silly telling the whole world what I did.

But treebird, next-year I'm geared up with 125 pecan rootstocks and I'm going to graft mainly Hark and Mullahy to sell as a combo (share with friends) since their bloom(s) overlap couldn't be a more perfect match. Bill Totten gave me his blessing to begin propagating/selling 'Hark'.

So, maybe this year for ya, maybe next. I'll get a Mullahy for ya if you need that, too. I didn't graft those this year, so that will have to be next year.

Dax

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 9:21AM
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treebird101

Have you tried Growing Kanza where you're at? I have several small tree I got from Stark Bros a few years ago and they sure can take the cold with no problem. I was told by Bill Reid that they might not fill every year in Southwest Iowa. I'm hoping that the trees will adapt to a shorter growing season here and the nut will just lose a little size. Mandan and Pawnee didn't survive this past winter. How is Hark as far as scab resistance? My Peruque trees show some slight scabbing with all this rain we're getting, so is my Burlington hican. T-92 hicans are beautiful and scab free with huge leaves! I love scab free trees! I might try growing the shepherd pecan here but I like to sample everything before I grow it. Which is logical for most of us. I haven't tried Mullahy nuts but I heard the tree can get scabby. Those Hark nuts you sent were outstanding and I am still very shocked the tree isn't more widely propagated. Based on the stats on Bill Reid's blog, Hark has a higher % kernel than Kanza and Major. It is larger than Major and can be larger than kanza as well. So why did I just find out about Hark last year? It was the first time I've heard about this pecan. Gary told me it's a Type 1 protandrous early pollinator which would make it a great companion for my Kanza trees. The bark is really neat on the tree as well. It looks flakier than Major bark.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 1:53PM
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treebird101

Major pecan with stats.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 2:00PM
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treebird101

Kanza pecan with stats.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 2:01PM
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treebird101

Hark pecan with stats.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 2:02PM
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treebird101

T-92 Foliage. This nut is believed to be a controlled cross of Mahan pecan and Weschcke shagbark hickory. I took this photo this morning. These are some HUGE leaves. Very healthy foliage!

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 2:36PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Those leaves are killer.
Gary has a couple Kanza's. Just like mostly everything this winter the cambia showed at least some bruising, but you're right it's fully hardy. Bill Reid told me the same exact thing he told you. I've looked where you are and you're slightly south of where I am.
Yep, when I went with Totten to the Illinois Nut Growers meeting and looked at all the samples, 'Hark' outdid 'Kanza'; Totten had no-problem pointing that out! And I know Reid gave 'Hark' the "Blue Ribbon" cultivar in 2007. Why it isn't being propagated is because the wood was only distributed to the USDA 'a decade ago' which they misplaced it, lol, having to ask Totten for more thereafter realizing they couldn't find the grafts in their fields, haha! & also Bill handed some over to Professor Reid about eight years ago. Additionally, I know at that IL meeting that Bill brought scions for a friend of his. I think besides myself and Gary Fernald, and the others mentioned, that's the extent of how far it's gone.
I think it's a low pest free tree, treebird. It may get some scab but it's raved about so much that I've not even heard that come up.
The ortet lost that flaky bark that Reid shows on his blog of younger trees. The ortet is a king specimen at 70' tall, minimum. I have a photo of the bark but not of the entire tree, at the moment:


Dax

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 7:13PM
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treebird101

Very interesting. I have 4 kanzas and would like to use Hark as the pollinators. Can you imagine the genetic potential of crosses made between the two.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2014 at 9:30PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

It blows my mind.

Guess you better keep Mullahy out of the equation and I will do the same.

Dax

    Bookmark   June 8, 2014 at 6:20AM
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treebird101

I know this is not meant to be a pecan thread but I was near the Platte river in Missouri (Very far North, not too far out of Iowa) and came across a heavily productive pecan tree with nuts that are above average native pecan in size with a very thin shell. The tree has to be self pollinating because I came across no other pecan trees in a half mile radius. All the small nut clusters on the tree had groups of 6 and 7. I also found my very first shellbark hickory tree close to home. No nuts on or underneath the tree but I am just scratching my head as to why people do not plant hickory for their ornamental value as well as nuts. This Shellbark tree had ENORMOUS leaves, some as long as my waist to the ground.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2014 at 2:38AM
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treebird101

Platte River pecan nut cluster.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2014 at 2:40AM
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treebird101

Platte River pecan shells found under the tree. This fall I will get nut samples to inspect.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2014 at 2:42AM
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treebird101

My son Tayden holding the shellbark hickory leaf up for display.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2014 at 2:44AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Yes, I'll be interested hearing about that pecan.

Here's Gary Fernald a few days ago showing a June greenwood graft.

Dax

Here is a link that might be useful: Grafting Pecan: June Greenwood

    Bookmark   June 23, 2014 at 3:41PM
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treebird101

Great video Dax. Glad to hear less wind in this one. Very interesting budding demo. Love Gary's Red Green analogy. I was thinking the same thing when he pulled out the electrical tape and foil duct tape, lol. I definitely hope to get some Hark scion next year.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2014 at 5:12AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Yes, like windex as a bug spray and antiseptic... duct tape, electrical tape, and foil have always been recommended by the Greeks for grafting. That Red Green show is a scream at times.

I've three Hark now that took and one of Gary's 'Iowa' pecan selection. 'Iowa' shuck splits in 137-139 days and is a plump little pecan shaped like a football. I haven't tried one, but its size reminds me 'Major' which I've been eating tons of for months and months.

I've got seedlings of Hark going now and I'm going to graft 'Hark' to those for planting here in a couple three years..... cause that's how Red would do it.

Dax

    Bookmark   June 25, 2014 at 7:20AM
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treebird101

Well I went to the Lake Icaria hickory tree yesterday. Very strange weather here in Iowa today and yesterday, Unseasonably cool. The verdict is out that not only does lake Icaria have a wonderful nut and the tree having beautiful form and foliage but it is also a heavy annual bearer. I found out why none of nuts had a single weevil in them last year. Apparently when the nuts are bitten by weevils they are shed onto the ground. Fred Blankenship said that the only other tree he knows that aborts weevil bitten nuts is Yoder #1. There were thousands of aborted nuts on the ground underneath the Lake Icaria tree. Every one on the ground had weevil damage and the nuts on the tree looked unblemished and perfect. I highly recommend lake Icaria for grafting and growing for nut production. I believe the tree is self pollinating and is lateral producing making very heavy crops. Nuts are found not just on the outer limbs but throughout the inside of the canopy.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2014 at 1:05PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Excellent. Very interesting, too.

Dax

    Bookmark   July 2, 2014 at 5:14PM
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hickorypaw(5)

I live in SE Iowa and have read and reread this entire thread many times. Great info!

My first attempts this year at grafting brought mixed results. My apple grafts were near 90% and I was very pleased.

My hickory attempts ran at 10% but I did learn a lot. I think some of my failures were from not enough protection from the sun. My two successful grafts were in a shaded area around May 20th. A Porter and a Fayette. Both the Mega Chip bud method Tom Wahl uses.

The Porter has nice new growth about 18 inches. The Fayette has about one inch new growth. The Stink Bugs and Leafhoppers were hard on it but I still have hope for it. A second Fayette looked fine with about 4 inches new growth until a heavy rain last week. The new growth seemed to go limp and turn white/gray. It certainly looks dead now.

I wondered if anyone else wanted to share their successes or failures.

Thanks,
Chris
Fairfield, IA

    Bookmark   July 18, 2014 at 9:49AM
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lucky_p

Chris,
I've been grafting nut trees for 20 years - and still struggle - a 50% success rate is phenomenal for me!

    Bookmark   July 18, 2014 at 2:13PM
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devonhubb

I've been grafting for a grand total of two years now and have had pretty good success (50-70%) with Pecans.

But this spring I got one take out of seven on Black Walnuts.

I'm grafting Kanza, Lakota & Lipan pecans & Mintle black walnuts. All on native rootstock. I would love to obtain some Hark pecan scionwood this winter.....

    Bookmark   July 18, 2014 at 2:43PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

No problem. I'd be happy to send some scionwood.

Dax

    Bookmark   July 19, 2014 at 8:19AM
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devonhubb

Dax, I will be hollering at you this winter. And If I have anything that you want, I will be glad to return the favor. Thanks so much!

    Bookmark   July 19, 2014 at 3:34PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

You're welcome. I understand... believe me.

Dax

    Bookmark   July 20, 2014 at 6:57AM
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treebird101

Well the moment you all been waiting for.............The new pecan discovery I call "Nevaeh". The largest native pecan nut I've found growing this far north. Check out the size of the shuck on this bad boy!

    Bookmark   October 2, 2014 at 1:32AM
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treebird101

The squirrels ransacked the tree. A month and a half ago there were clusters of 4 and 5 all over. Those tree rats left me only 8 nuts.

    Bookmark   October 2, 2014 at 1:35AM
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treebird101

The tree is still scab free and free of fungus period. I haven't cracked a nut open yet but I know it has a very thin shell based on the squirrel litter all over.

    Bookmark   October 2, 2014 at 1:38AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

I'm curious how it cracks of course and the kernel flavor and color.

Gary's 'Iowa' pecan split shuck and has been dropping I guess for a short period of time. I haven't been over there to gather any, however. When I get some I'll post a photo or a couple.

Let us know, treebird. More photos appreciated.

Dax

This post was edited by gardener365 on Sun, Jan 11, 15 at 10:36

    Bookmark   October 2, 2014 at 10:09AM
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treebird101

Will do. They have to dry a little. The squirrels also ransacked the Lake Icaria tree this year as well. For a tree that was so loaded, I got not a single nut this year.

    Bookmark   October 2, 2014 at 11:33AM
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treebird101

Well I cracked more of an inferior nut to check the interior. it looks like a stink bug had fed on this nut. The cracking is ok. I would like to see wider grooves. It doesn't trap packing material. I'm wondering if this nut might not actually be a hican the more I observe it. It did have a thicker husk.

    Bookmark   October 8, 2014 at 6:54AM
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lucky_p

tb,
Nut looks to be all pecan, to me.

Bud morphology might give a clue, as to whether there's any hickory in its background.
IIRC, Fred B's "Hickory's Major" was selected out of a batch of Major pecan seedlings due to increased prominence of lenticels(?) in the bark, suggesting that (Burton) hican might be the pollen parent. I've seen HM nuts, but it's been a while...think my oldest HM tree may be bearing a few this year, but has not entered shuck split yet... but, bud morphology looks 'pecan', and not 'hican', to me.

Typical heavy crop on 'Garnett' shellbark this year; have not checked the local shagbarks I usually gather from, yet; maybe today...
First nuts on one of the little shellbarks I grew from seednuts purchased from Dr. Liddington nearly 20 years ago (controlled crosses of Fayette, Keystone, Grandview) anxious to see what nut structure will be like - but they look to be fairly small; hoping they size up more as the trees mature.

Heavy crops two years running on the local pecans, looks like a lesser crop this time out - and the squirrels and crows are working them HARD right now, as they get close to shucksplit.

    Bookmark   October 8, 2014 at 10:06AM
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treebird101

It very well could be pure pecan. I actually sent Fred a report on his HM tree on how my hypothesis led to his tree being the offspring of Major and Stuart. Do the research your self on pollen shed nut size and side by side comparison of HM and Stuart. Also HM is late to drop leaves in the fall as though part of its parentage is of southern origin. Fred traced back the origin of the major seed and the gentleman who's orchard they came from did have a Stuart tree. Fred Blankenship believes strongly in first generation influence of pollen on hickory, meaning pollen can affect the shape, size and content of a particular nut cultivar. I find this to be very true in garden vegetables such as hot and sweet peppers, corn, ect. So I can see this being a good possibility in nuts as well. Fred has seen some remarkable changes in his hickory nuts this year. The fairly small nuts from your controlled crosses could be influenced by another trees pollen. I have had Keystone nuts sent to me from three different sources and all had similarities but none were the same.

    Bookmark   October 8, 2014 at 5:20PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Carya illinoinensis 'Iowa' (tentative/provisionally). This is either it's own cultivar that Gary Fernald has or, Gary doesn't know if it was named prior.

This post was edited by gardener365 on Sat, Jan 10, 15 at 14:43

    Bookmark   October 10, 2014 at 5:56PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Carya illinoinensis 'OC-9'

    Bookmark   October 16, 2014 at 9:49AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Carya illinoinensis 'Hark' and 'Major' for comparison. Dax

    Bookmark   October 27, 2014 at 4:12PM
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treebird101

Hark is better.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2014 at 9:22PM
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devonhubb

Do you think that Major might be a parent of Hark?

    Bookmark   October 30, 2014 at 9:22PM
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lucky_p

Bill Reid says 'maybe'.

Hark

Origin: Seedling tree growing in Alexis, IL. Seed nut for this tree was collected from an orchard of near Moberly, MO. May have Major parentage.

2 yr. nut data
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Average Minimum Maximum
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Nut weight (g) 5.88 4.99 6.77
Percent Kernel 54.92 53.69 56.15
------------------------------------------------------------------

Maturity date at Chetopa not yet established
Protandrous flowering habit
Appears scab resistant
Very attractive kernel

    Bookmark   October 31, 2014 at 12:46PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Hican 'Green Bay'

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 9:35AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Visited an incredible nut collection among other trees yesterday. These are some of the highlights. I'll begin with Gary Fernald sort of chuckling showing Carya illinoinensis 'Colby' grafted onto a native Carya ovata:

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 9:50AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Hican 'Burton' grafted to Carya ovata: perfect growth rates/match of seedling and scion, vigor.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 10:08AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Juglans nigra 'Stabler' showing single & double lobed walnuts.
Juglans nigra 'Stabler' produces both single and double lobed walnuts but not in heavy crops. The double lobed walnuts it produces can/will crack out in fulls.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 10:30AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Juglans nigra 'Meyers' in the 25 meter height range.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 10:32AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

(2) Illinois native: Carya ovata on each side of the conifer.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 11:01AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Fagus grandifolia. What a gorgeous tree with its sweeping branches.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 11:21AM
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treebird101

Very cool Dax. I guess we can all see proof that grafting pecan onto hickory doesn't lead to a promising future. The other way around produces nice results on the hickory side of things but still a noticeable difference in size.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 11:33AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

I'd be a little more picky, actually. Shell on shell; pecan on pecan; shag on shag; and hican on shag. And when if possible for my own landscape since I propagate... a certain cultivar grafted to a seedling of it. No exceptions to my own landscape "plus" tossing out the less vigorous seedlings and grafting onto the better.

Carya laciniosa 'Grandview'

Carya laciniosa 'Grandview'

Carya laciniosa 'Grandview'

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 5:31PM
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poaky1

Ha, after all the grafting talk in detail. I really have one comment, (I'm no grafter or tree expert) I love the Fagus Grandifolia pics. It is hard to tell the scale of the tree. i know they can be impressive in person, but the pics don't do them justice. I need to revisit a tree (American Beech) that i am most impressed with. I need to find something to show scale. And I hope the trees owner doesn't see me and flip out. It is in a "rich peoples" side of town. I want to sneak in take a pic and get out of dodge. The tree is so impressive, it's worth the effort.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2014 at 9:34PM
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lucky_p

Dax,
If you're concerned about graft incompatibility across the three Carya species...I'm not sure it's worth worrying about. Even that pecan-on-shagbark looks like it's been growing well for long time, despite the difference in trunk diameter above & below the union.
If you're concerned about aesthetics - even putting pecan on pecan, you can see some pretty profound differences in bark character between the understock and scion variety.
There's some - at least anecdotal - evidence to suggest that productivity &/or nut size of the hickories may be increased, on pecan understock. Pecan grows longer into the growing season, whereas hickories have usually set terminal buds and ceased growth by around July 4; some folks seem to think that the prolonged growth phase of pecan understock continues to push resources to nut development.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2014 at 6:50PM
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treebird101

I agree 100 Lucky. I in fact would rather graft hickory and hican onto pecan because I've witnessed a huge difference in the rate of scion graft growth between hickory and pecan rootstock. Everything grafted onto pecan seems to grow twice as fast. Many have sent me nut samples of the same nut on different rootstocks that have been growing for years and the ones grafted onto pecan have nuts near twice the size of what is grafted onto hickory rootstock. If aesthetics are of the highest priority, I recommend grafting a cultivar onto its own seedling for best results. For best nut production in an orchard setting pecan rootstock is the best way to go. Dax, I just now realized that you didn't actually have rulers with cultivar names stamped on them. I was wondering where you were getting those custom rulers made at, lol.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2014 at 8:24PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

haha yep.

Good info guys. I forgot about all those factors.

Lucky: that pecan on shag was 50' tall. You are right that it is still doing well.

I'll see what I choose to do but for me pecan on pecan seedlings of its' own prodigy is still what I'm going to do for my own landscape-orchard. I have fast-growing shellbark I planted in 2008 that pushed 2' this year, maybe more I forget. I'm going to put a hican on that one. Maybe a 'T-92' if Tyler gets some wood growing from his tree. If it's a great tasting nut, plus great foliage, that's the one for me.

See ya Gents,

Dax

    Bookmark   November 4, 2014 at 10:54AM
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treebird101

Here's a graft union of "Bullnut" Shellbark grafted to pecan rootstock behind my house. The union is 3 years old. At this point other than the appearance of the different barks they seem to be keeping up with each other in diameter.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2014 at 4:15PM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Good looking wedge graft.

I'm going to be grafting pecans:
Hark (3)
Mullahy (1)
OC-1 (1) as my pollinator for 'Dumbell Lake'

I planted (3) seedlings in situ for each I'm grafting. (3) seedlings of F2 "Hark" in each spot; (3) seedlings of F2 "Mullahy"; and I had seedlings of F2 "OC-9" that I'll be using as the rootstock for 'OC-1'. I'll use the most vigorous of the three in each place, but graft on all three.

A few days ago I secured the mounting hardware for my Fieldcraft Topgrafter on my greenhouse bench. I can use the tool as a mount or remove it easily and go graft in the field. For next year I have 125 Missouri pecan seedlings for understock and about (8) F2Hark I think that calipered up real nice this year in their first season. I'm going to graft 'Hark' onto those F2's of course.

Having the Fieldcraft Topgrafter is going to improve my takes substantially. I also plan to graft all deciduous whether oak, pecan, etc. a month and 1/2 ahead of when I usually graft in my heated greenhouse. (mid-Feb. now about April 1). I think the results will be better and certainly I won't need to bring the temperature of my greenhouse up and spend money unnecessarily.

Dax

    Bookmark   November 7, 2014 at 8:32AM
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treebird101

Sounds like a good plan Dax. The above graft is actually a 4 flap. Fred Blankenship swears by it and it does work great for hickory. I have had success with a simple whip graft also. The grafts seem to all survive their first winter better with the cambium over lay on the flap grafts than they do with any sort of cambium/wood matching grafts like whip or omega grafts. But that could be just because I use bare root seedlings that aren't established before I graft to them. I just plant, wait, then graft all in the same year. I like grafting hickory because the variance in leaf color/size and bud structure is very diverse.

    Bookmark   November 9, 2014 at 8:16AM
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devonhubb

I resurrected this thread from Page 9. Too much info in here for it to get lost.....

Is anybody thinking about cutting scion wood yet? Probably about 4 or 5 weeks still too early here.

I sure would like to get a start of Hark pecan if anybody has any to share.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2015 at 11:55AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Hi devon,

My rootstocks are outdoors and I'll dig them when the time is right and bench-graft them bare-root. Should be sometime April here. Of course I'll have harvested (my own scions) as late as possible for freshness, and prior to the fact while completely dormant.

Dax

This post was edited by gardener365 on Sat, Jan 10, 15 at 15:48

    Bookmark   January 10, 2015 at 2:49PM
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nuss1 pete

Hi Dax,
I read your post and I want you say.
I find, that digging out the roots of pecan is not a good idea.
Because pecans need a strong rootstock for start the scions
after grafting.
So you will graft the plant outside or work with potted roots.
For walnuts, it is good grafting with fresh digged root,
then here the stock do not bleed.

[url=http://www.fotos-hochladen.net][img]http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/jd501497b1ylkp6wor.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://www.fotos-hochladen.net][img]http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/jd501548ze2alvkxf9.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://www.fotos-hochladen.net][img]http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/jd5000258e7sh05fod.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://www.fotos-hochladen.net][img]http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/jd500170skp3e0wocz.jpg[/img][/url]

This is my experience here in Germany

Good growing

Peter

    Bookmark   January 19, 2015 at 9:58AM
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nuss1 pete

Sorry, new try for the photos

    Bookmark   January 19, 2015 at 10:12AM
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devonhubb

Peter,

What varieties do you propagate?

    Bookmark   January 19, 2015 at 7:19PM
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nuss1 pete

Hi,

My small pecan trees growing next to 50 latitude North.
Which is further north than the border USA - Canada.
So I have northern and far northern pecan selections.
We have the last frost in begin of May and the first freeze at
mid of November. Harder is, the lack of heat in the summer.
Rarely it is warmer than 30ð C / 85ð F.
Last year, one tree " Lucas " had the first flowers.
And I hope, I can see fruits in the next years.
In Austria, I found one pecantree, which have nice ripen nuts
mid of October

    Bookmark   January 20, 2015 at 8:10AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Hi Peter,

I understand and thank you for your information. It is however ok to dig because my mentor does this every year. He has 90-95% success.

Roots are dug from within very deep the soil. They are then grafted on the bench and roots transferred to tall containers often kitchen garbage cans then sawdust filled and kept away from cold in heated greenhouse where heat mats keep the roots and sawdust warm until the grafts are good and show growth and are able to return outside.

You are very correct that grafting to field-established-seedling of course. It's because scion when bench graft may fail during winter if there is much seasonal-growth. The scions may not always harden/mature timely, prior to winter and the scions die. When field grafts the roots are very much established and this helps to aid the wood maturing all season so winter does not kill. My mentor describes and says.

Thank you for these true observations....

Protection to scions may be very helpful come along winter their first winter of those bench grafted.

Dax

    Bookmark   January 20, 2015 at 10:13AM
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nuss1 pete

Hi Dax,

Thanks for your informations.
Thatôs right, new grafts will die in winter if the shoots are to soft.
In my regions, the seedlings needs growing of 3 to 4 years,
to have the size for grafting.
How old are your rootstock when you graft them.?

I lost this graft from 2013 in last winter.
Because the scion start very late growing and was green
at the first frost.


Peter

    Bookmark   January 21, 2015 at 8:39AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Hi Peter,

three years is likely to get rootstock of size.

F2 'Hark' seedlings - some become large enough grown in a pot their first year although not the same as 3 years in ground. I will graft true cultivar 'Hark' onto F2 seedling Hark this year.

Dax

    Bookmark   January 21, 2015 at 9:03AM
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nuss1 pete

Hi Dax,
your seedling have nearly the same growth as sapling which start from southern pecan seednuts.
For several years, I am a member of NNGA and I received form the nutgrowers scions and seednuts for my research.


target="_blank">

To Bill Totten, also I sent a request, and he wanted help me in my trials. At further mails, Bill had not responded unfortunately.

As I read in the forum, you're also in contact with Mr. Bill Totten.
================================================
But treebird, next-year I'm geared up with 125 pecan rootstocks and I'm going to graft mainly Hark and Mullahy to sell as a combo (share with friends) since their bloom(s) overlap couldn't be a more perfect match. Bill Totten gave me his blessing to begin propagating/selling 'Hark'.
================================================

I hope Bill is healthy and he just overlooked my message. ?

Peter

    Bookmark   January 22, 2015 at 8:46AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Bill is doing pretty well but is aging and cares full-time for his wife that needs assistance.

Peter, send an email to me. click on "My Page" above next to my gardener365 name.

Dax

    Bookmark   January 22, 2015 at 9:11AM
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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Back to grafting. I did oaks yesterday, however... I've mastered this Fieldcraft Topgrafter tool and will be using it for everything deciduous in the future.

Dax

Grafting Oak WB Using Fieldcraft Topgrafter Pt.1 Waxing Scions

Grafting Oak WB Using Fieldcraft Topgrafter Pt. 2

    Bookmark   3 hours ago
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