JD425 no spark or fuel.. HELP!!!!

Robs425September 16, 2013

I have a 1993 JD425 with 20 hp Kawasaki engine. Engine turns over but has no spark to either plug. Also noticed that fuel pump is not working! Through reading some other postings, I checked voltage to coils and got 12.2 v coming in! Replaced time delay module... still nothing! Also jumped seat safety (yes, with 12 gauge wire!). Figuring something safety, but not sure what to check next. Help ASAP would be greatly appreciated!

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mownie(7)

There seem to be some factual discrepancies in your post.
What source of information are you using that says there should be battery voltage at the "coils"?
The Kawasaki manuals I have indicates the ignition system is magneto type. A magneto ignition system DOES NOT need any external voltage, in fact........all external voltage sources must be kept away from the magneto wiring.
So, if you are able to detect battery voltage on the small black wire at either of the magnetos, the presence of such voltage is in itself a condition that should not exist, and points to a defective key switch, or a cross feed type of short circuit in some wiring in the dash harness.
Now, all this that I have said might not apply to your particular Kawasaki engine but you don't actually state which model of Kaw engine you have.
Also, none of my Kaw manuals show any kind of "time delay module" in the ignition scheme either.
So, I'm not sure if I am in the right song book, let alone on the right page.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 11:15AM
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justalurker

IIRC the JD 425 has a Kawasaki FD620D engine.

I recall that JD425 engines prior to 1998 had plastic cam gears and that caused some problems.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 12:06PM
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mownie(7)

OK, FD620 does not have magneto ignition. So I was on the wrong song book in my first reply.
On the FD620, the same battery positive circuit that feeds the + side of the ignition coils, also feeds battery + to the igniter module.
If you are getting battery + at the ignition coils, that is half the requirement, you must also determine if the igniter is being fed a battery + input as well. Essentially, the igniter provides a ground for the ignition coils. When the igniter opens the circuit and deprives a coil its ground, the coil fires a spark.
The igniter needs battery voltage to operate off of to do its switching task.
If you confirm that the igniter is getting battery voltage, check all the ground wiring points of attachment. If you have lost a ground somewhere on the chassis or engine, that might be affecting the operation of the igniter AND the fuel pump.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 12:46PM
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justalurker

Check the voltage at the battery static. Turn the lights on and see if the voltage drops. Try to start the engine and see if the voltage drops. Have the battery load tested.

Check BOTH ends of BOTH battery cables for clean and secure connection.

Check all the fuses with a meter or test light not just by sight. Make sure all the fuses are making a good connection.

Check the engine mounting bolts for clean and tight connections.

This post was edited by justalurker on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 20:21

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 7:17PM
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Robs425

Thank You for the helpful idea's. I have checked them and still nothing. Can anyone help me understand what actually sends power to the fuel pump? Does the ignition module relay info to the fuel pump AND coils? Does anyone know where I can download a service manual? Thank You in advance for time!

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 5:56PM
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justalurker

Google John Deere 425 Technical Manual

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 6:28PM
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Robs425

Thank You for the helpful idea's. I have checked them and still nothing. Can anyone help me understand what actually sends power to the fuel pump? Does the ignition module relay info to the fuel pump AND coils? Does anyone know where I can download a service manual? Thank You in advance for time!

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 7:14PM
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justalurker

When you Google the first hit IS the technical manual for your JD425.

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 7:20PM
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bill_kapaun

Turn the key to the ON position.
manipulate the seat switch.
You SHOULD hear Operator Presence Relay K2 (OPR) clicking.
IF not, check the fusible link from the battery or fuse F3.

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 8:03PM
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Robs425

Thank You justaliker and will check also bill kapaun!

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 8:16PM
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Robs425

OK.... After tracking down wires, I have found the blue wire (750) going from control / fuse module is not sending power to PTO switch. Checked wire for resistance, it is good. The Red (PTO) LED light on the module is not on leading me to check this part. So, that being the case, is the Control / Fuse module bad? That is actually the Ignition Module (AM128878) correct!???

    Bookmark   September 19, 2013 at 10:07PM
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bill_kapaun

You might refer to a page number since that manual is SO HUGE-

I see 750 going between S4 PTO switch to K3 PTO relay.
I don't see a "going from control / fuse module".

Maybe to help your tracing-
Relays-
when current is flowing between pins 85 & 86, pin 30 is connected to pin 87.
IF no current flowing, pin 30 is connected to 87A.

    Bookmark   September 20, 2013 at 12:29AM
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Robs425

I assume you are looking at power circuit schematic(PCS) on page 5-33. I was using PTO circuit diagnosis 5-80 to 5-82. Additionally looking at the troubleshooting steps on page 5-31. Reading PCS (5-33) power comes out of PTO switch(S4), to the (K3) PTO relay, then to the (E2) PTO LED light which does not work!? The relays are not replaceable correct? Forgive my ignorance as I am not use to reading schematics to detail! THANK YOU ALL WHO ARE TRYING TO HELP ME!!!!!

    Bookmark   September 20, 2013 at 8:06AM
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bill_kapaun

Relays definitely should be replaceable.

These are known as Bosch relays.
Used for decades on things such as head light circuits for cars to switch between hi & lo beams etc.

Any auto parts store should have them.

http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm

Edit-
I see where it says the relays are part of the circuit board (5-31)
That sucks-
You might see IF they still unplug.
IF not, I'd-
1. Check fuses
2. Disconnect every thing on the board and test the individual relays.
No power between 85 & 86- 30 & 87A should show continuity.
Power between 85 & 86 - 30 & 87 should show continuity.

This post was edited by bill_kapaun on Fri, Sep 20, 13 at 9:07

    Bookmark   September 20, 2013 at 8:48AM
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Robs425

Well.... tractor works!!!! After checking every connection on the tractor for power, and talking with J.D. service tech, I bought an Ignitor. Brought it home, plugged it in, and she fired immediately. Thanks for everyones help in trying to chase down what I was hoping was going to be cheaper than $291.50! This is a great forum and I look forward to learning and helping in the future!

    Bookmark   September 21, 2013 at 11:34AM
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bill_kapaun

Ouch!
Glad you got it running. Those JD schematics are an ordeal-

    Bookmark   September 21, 2013 at 11:42AM
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justalurker

You got it narrowed down, didn't waste money on any unnecessary parts, you now have a copy of the technical manual, and that's all good.

When the dealer has a part like an ignitor in stock that indicates that it fails often enough to earn an inventory investment by the dealer.

@ $291.50 pricey for sure but a small percentage of what a 425 is worth.

You should check your serial numbers and investigate whether your engine has the plastic cam gear so that surprise doesn't await you down the road. That repair is much more $$$ than the cost of the ignitor so it's wise to preempt the plastic gear failure.

This CLICK HERE is worth reading.

This post was edited by justalurker on Sat, Sep 21, 13 at 14:01

    Bookmark   September 21, 2013 at 1:16PM
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mownie(7)

***"When the dealer has a part like an ignitor in stock that indicates that it fails often enough to earn an inventory investment by the dealer."***
That statement is so true.
Now I'll give you a look at another "truism" that applies to the shop I work for.
Large company fleet of OTR trucks, trailers, and forklifts. We have our own "parts department" with a sometimes "dubious" inventory assortment.
Our common saying amongst the mechanics is that if you go to the parts room and find a plentiful supply of any item, that item DOES NOT FIT anything in our fleet.....because if it fit something in the fleet.......it would be out of stock instead. Of course this is all aimed at our "parts men" who have been known to order something incorrectly. :^)

    Bookmark   September 21, 2013 at 3:18PM
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justalurker

mownie,

My experience is that there are partsmen(women) and parts clerks. Everywhere I've been that there are partsmen(women) I rarely had to special order a part. Everywhere there were parts clerks the parts I needed were rarely on the shelf and they wanted customers to pay for shipping for special ordered parts.

I've worked with parts professionals who used to sit down and review every new model every year and had parts ordered and on the shelf before those new models hit the sales floor based on experience with previous model years and they rarely were wrong on their decided stocking selection or quantity.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2013 at 6:42PM
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