OH NO! how can I save these guys?

berninicaco3June 22, 2014

I'm new to roses. We had minis when I was a kid, and in a bout of nostalgia I bought a bunch of these guys from a local garden center.

These were healthy when I bought them. All the leaves on these 2 are turning yellow and wilting/dying and I'm scared of losing the whole plant. I potted them on wednesday/thursday. Some of the others are showing the same symptom, but to a lesser degree.

These are 'baby elizabeth' and 'real pink' if breed is relevant.

I used a nice mix of compost with some sand and vermiculate for drainage, and touch of pearlite just because. I also mixed in some granulated rose fertilizer.
at the bottom of the pots is either sand or cocoa mulch (I ran out of sand).

What's causing it, and is there anything I can do in the way of damage control?

Is it just stress from repotting and they'll recover?

could I have over-fertilized (and if so, should I immediately re-repot with soil without fertilizer)?

overwatering from the recent rains (and I need to move under porch to dry out)?

fungus/disease? (seems less likely).

let me know before these die!!

thanks!
-Bernard

Here is a link that might be useful:

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canadian_rose(zone 3a)

Well, I'm no expert but....I wouldn't have potted them in compost. I think that would be too rich for the baby roots. What I use is a mixture of lots 2/3 potting soil and 1/3 garden soil, and that's it. Plus I would never fertilize anything that young. The roots might have been burned.

The extra water might be helping to flush out the fertilizer.

I would repot and leave the compost for top dressing once the roses are bigger/older.
They should be fine then. :)

Now, someone else might come up with a better/different solution. :)

New things always have a learning curve. You'll get it. :)
Carol

    Bookmark   June 22, 2014 at 8:31PM
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seil zone 6b MI

That doesn't look like a disease. More like water stress. Unfortunately the symptoms for both OVER watering and UNDER watering are those yellowing leaves.

I would re-pot them in a good quality POTTING soil. Don't add any fertilizer. You can clean them up by removing any dead leaves and spent blooms but leave all the green leaves you can to feed the plant. Keep them generously watered but not soggy wet. If possible put them in a spot that only gets morning sun and not hot afternoon sun. Let them rest and recuperate and they should be fine.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2014 at 8:59PM
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berninicaco3

OK it's probable I over-fertilized.
And it looks like you're right... so,
over-water for the next couple days and see if I can't get them re-hydrated?

It's really just those 2 that are badly affected; others are doing fine. Think they could make it?

I'd appreciate any other damage-control advice you have.

Next question... so these roses came from a better local greenhouse. Now, there were also some lovely miniatures at another place, from a grower in canada: the color I really liked so I got one.
But I discovered on bringing it home that it was not one healthy plant in the pot, but 4 seedlings which were crowding each other.
I soaked them to tease apart the tangled roots without tearing too many of them, but they're all wilting, perhaps beyond the point of recovery :(
I've got one left I haven't repotted yet. How would you proceed? Let them get bigger before repotting, or repot now as a unit and separate them later? Or separate now... but do something differently?

    Bookmark   June 22, 2014 at 9:16PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Flushing them is good but I don't think your compost mix is the best soil for them either. I think they should be re-potted in regular potting soil.

They often pot up several cuttings to make those plants look better for sale. I used to try and separate them too but after losing them time and again I quit trying and just pot them all up together as is. You get one nice big healthy plant that way instead of 3 or 4 dead ones.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2014 at 9:27PM
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berninicaco3

are the 4 plants a problem, or will they grow outwards together/ merge into one plant?

    Bookmark   June 22, 2014 at 9:50PM
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vasue(7A Charlottesville)

Suspect teasing the roots apart is the initial problem for that four-in-one rose & your potting recipe, method & pots themselves poor choices. Am I understanding correctly that these all came from greenhouse conditions? If so, would have been a good idea to gradually transition them to outdoor realities to help them adapt before considering repotting or messing with them in any way, pretty much a rule of thumb for all plants newly coming out of greenhouse controlled environments. After successfully transitioning them to outdoor conditions, let them grow on in peace until they show additional growth without problems, indicating they've adapted & stabilized. At that point, you can work with them and their needs toward your goals. If you plan to add them to other plants in a mixed pot, you can do that then. Otherwise, no need to repot to a larger size unless & until their roots have filled & are beginning to crowd their original pot. You can slip their pot into a more decorative one for looks.

For future reference - if you prefer the lush full pot look the multiples were intended to provide, leave them be & treat as one plant. If you want to transplant the individuals in the multiple pot, wait at least until they've transitioned & stabilized as above to do so, and disturb the roots as little as possible in the process. Here's one method that works for me. Prepare by watering well a few hours or the night before dividing. You want the soil moist but not soggy, able to hold together without falling apart or crumbling. Set yourself up in the shade with your new pots & potting mix at hand. Using a sharp knife long enough to cut through the soil in a smooth motion without sawing, cut an x in two strokes across the pot leaving each plant centered in its section, as if cutting a cake into four equal pieces. Slide the knife down around the inside of the pot as if you were loosening a cake from its pan. Remove (I actually use a pie/cake server to do this) & pot each slice & water gently but thoroughly to settle them in. If the new soil sinks down below the slice's outline, top it up & water again until it's even. If they're sun or part sun plants, keep them in the shade for a few days to reduce any stress of dividing. Have done this successfully with mini roses several times, as well as other types of plants, but only tried when the stems were spaced in the original pot far enough apart to allow this, not when crowded together in the center.

Agree with other sound advice about immediate remedial repotting, potting mix, shade, frequent fine misting & not fertilizing new plants or transplants for reasons given. See no point for a sand layer below the soil or the mulch at the bottom, and imagine the mulch will absorb water & rot to the detriment of the plant. Which brings me to the pot itself. Looks like terracotta clay, whether glazed outside or wet can't tell. Terracotta absorbs a lot of water & can leave plants thirsty as well as wicking moisture from the soil. It has its advantages as well, but wouldn't recommend them for new gardeners. When using them with plants that need even moisture, they need to be initially soaked in a pail or sink of water until bubbles stop rising & then some to fully saturate them. After planting, you need to water the pot & the soil each time you water. You can tell when the soil & pot need to be watered again by rapping your knuckles against the side of the pot. A hollow sound like a ripe watermelon indicates excessive dryness & a dull rap signals adequate moisture. Water slowly till the surface below the pot is wet, then come back & water again a few minutes later. Once for the pot & twice for the plant. Another learning curve best left for another day. Use them for slip pots if you will, leaving room between your actual pot & the sides of the terracotta to prevent possible heat transfer.

No one to ask & no idea what questions were appropriate when I began gardening, then-timid me checked out a lot of library books on cultivation each time a new step was contemplated (very pre-internet). Advice was often contradictory from one author to the next. Muddled through, finding what succeeded, following the reasoning behind each treatment & remedy & building confidence.

Believe most gardeners have managed to unintentionally lose a lot of plants along the way - know I have! - as well as learning from goof-ups & salvaging a good many struggling ones back to health. Welcome to the ongoing journey of always-more-to-learn that makes gardening so fascinating & so rewarding!

This post was edited by vasue on Mon, Jun 23, 14 at 0:29

    Bookmark   June 23, 2014 at 12:27AM
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