What Fragrant Red Hybrid Tea has nice shrub shape?

cjrosaphile(z8 Pacific NW)June 16, 2014

I have had Veteran's Honor, Velvet Fragrance, Red Masterpiece (which has no fragrance), Papa Meidiland, Deep Secret. . .now have Alec's Red. I love the blooms and smell of Alec's Red but the plant is gangly, drops it's leaves, ugly for the summer. And such was the case for all of these at least for me. VH has horrible rust, VF was not vigorous, Papa Meidiland, gangly as well. I just can't seem to find a red with fragrance and nice shrub shape (and keeps it's leaves). . .any ideas? I would consider a Floribunda if the blooms are nice and fragrant, etc.

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adamharbeck(WA Aust)

Have you considered Francis Dubreuil? It's referred to as a tea, but most people recognise it as the hybrid tea "Barcelona". A very, very fragrant rose and quite a nice bush. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.2835


    Bookmark   June 16, 2014 at 10:49PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

Good luck! Hybrid Teas were bred to have long, straight stems for cutting -- not something that tends to go along with "nice shrub shape." Then there's the disease issue -- generally, you can get up to 2/3 from this triad, but not all three: fragrance, red bloom color, disease resistance.

I, too, love the fragrant red HTs, but I took a different approach for mine. Rather than fight their nature, I put them individually in pots, with annuals at the base to "fill and spill." This way, what would be an ugly growth habit in the garden can work as the "thriller" in a mixed planter. If I have to resort to fungicides, I can do so per individual pot, rather than "contaminate" the rest of my garden.



Here is a link that might be useful: My pot-pet red Hybrid Teas

    Bookmark   June 16, 2014 at 11:01PM
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My Firefighter is fragrant, disease resistant, very full growth.
It's young plant and has had short stems. Except for not having sprays and it's height, it reminds me of a floribunda.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2014 at 11:37PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

Actually, I should have asked -- are you growing own-root or budded/grafted roses? I've noticed (though mine are still young) that many own-root HTs are "bushier" than budded/grafted versions of the same rose I've seen elsewhere. Growth is still upright, but not so vigorous and canes are shorter, giving the illusion of being fuller overall.



    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 12:14AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I have a new Oklahoma in my garden--it was actually several years old, grown in a pot when I bought it and planted it in my garden, so I'm not sure whether it grows like a newbie or a more mature plant. At any rate, it has a nice shape for a HT and the smoldering dark red is gorgeous! However, if you get it, probably plant it where you can usually view it relatively closely--the dark red color will then strike you as wonderful! Viewed from a distance, that same dark red doesn't carry well--it just "disappears" into the background or has a dying bloom appearance--no charm at all. Fortunately, I planted mine at the beginning of the perfume path so that I always get a close-up view when I go there.

In general, I do not get those ugly bare-knees on my HT that others sometimes complain about. I always attributed that to my zone--here in zone 6 we often have to spring-prune our HTs back down low (sometimes just a few inches from the soil line) due to winter damage, so in essence the plant starts over with new growth (on established roots) and thus refreshes itself every year. No legginess as a result. (I am referring to grafted HTs--don't know about own root HTs).


    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 12:42PM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

The McCartney Rose.Very fragrant, very full. Does not hold exhibition form for long, but the fragrance makes up for it.
DUH, you asked for a RED! Sorry!

This post was edited by diane_nj on Tue, Jun 17, 14 at 12:47

    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 12:46PM
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My Firefighter is grafted and planted less than a year ago. The shape of the bush is nice. No diseases, dark green leaves, and THE FRAGRANCE IS TO DIE FOR!
I said a day or two ago, here on the forum, this rose is probably my most beautifully fragrant of the bunch. I have 30 and half of them are Austins. Young Lycidas,
Gertrude Jekle, Munstead Wood, Lady Emma Hamilton,
and Carding Mill are all very lovely. But none perfumes
the air as Firefighter does.

P.S. This rose is NEARLY as beautiful as Olympiad.


    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 4:05PM
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The best for bush shape that I've grown so far was a grafted CHRYSLER IMPERIAL (HT, 1952) in USDA Zone 7b coastal VA: nicely opened 4x3 foot urn shaped shrub. I haven't grown Firefighter but I continue to read very good reports.

Image of Chrysler Imperial taken by MichaelAlreadyTaken in z9-Louisana (from the Hortiplex database).

    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 4:21PM
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cjrosaphile(z8 Pacific NW)

Thank you for all of your comments. I'm going to check out all of the suggestions. Firefighter looks promising. So hard to wait for the next rose season to get one. Oh and I do like McCartney's Rose. . .even though it is not red. So many of the reds are gorgeous but not fragrant, even though they are said to be. How can fragrance be so subjective??

Most of my roses are original root stock -- and if they are HTs then they are usually not very vigorous. And they also do not do well with the cane borer issues that we are having in my area. About ready to give up on HTs or may group two to three together to get the shrub I want. Seems to work at some of the rose gardens I've visited.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 8:37PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

here's a quick snapshot of firefighter. the wall behind it is 6' tall. The plant is 10 years old.

here's a quick snap of Barcelona (Francis Dubreuil). It's about 12 years old. It got got a hard prune so it's a little under 5' tall right now.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 8:43PM
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cjrosaphile(z8 Pacific NW)

Just read that Red Masterpiece has Chrysler Imperial as a parent. . .but neither one of these have much fragrance to my nose. So wish that Alec's Red had a beautiful shrub shape. Here's a photo.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 8:44PM
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adamharbeck(WA Aust)

It's not red, but have you considered Double Delight. That rose has an unquestionable fragrance. Also Fragrant cloud, though more coral red, has a very spicy sweet fragrance. The bush is just typical upright hybrid tea though. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.244670

And Dolly Parton is Fragrant Cloud x Oklahoma. Amazing scent.

    Bookmark   June 18, 2014 at 3:47AM
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Have you tried Grande Amore. You might want to take a good look. VERY nice.

    Bookmark   June 18, 2014 at 10:55AM
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cjrosaphile(z8 Pacific NW)

I have Double Delight and because its canes do not have much segmentation, the cane borers have killed one plant and I'm afraid that I'm going to SP the remaining one at the end of this season. Fragrant Cloud really looks more orangy to my eye. Definitely want a red. . .

    Bookmark   June 18, 2014 at 11:42AM
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cjrosaphile(z8 Pacific NW)

Does Grande Amore have a fragrance?? Many of the beautiful reds have no fragrance and I'd like one with. . .thx

    Bookmark   June 18, 2014 at 2:39PM
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adamharbeck(WA Aust)

It's not a hybrid tea, but what about the David Autin "Tradescant". http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.210687

    Bookmark   June 18, 2014 at 8:46PM
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Grande Amore has a nice mild fragrance. Not heavy but really nice.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2014 at 10:33AM
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petaloid(SoCal 10a/24)

Another fan of 'Firefighter' here. I am coastal, and it shows no signs of rust or powdery mildew in our garden. The fragrance is very strong and very pleasing to my nose.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2014 at 3:37PM
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the_morden_man((Z4-Z5) Ontario, Canada)

They are not HT's, but both grow rather upright and will have the bushier shape you are looking for and fragrance.

Cuthbert Grant- Opens pure red and then eventually fades to more purple red. Very fragrant.

Darcy Bussel- An Austin red with fragrance that grows upright and generally not too tall here in colder zones at least.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2014 at 8:25AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Didn't have a picture of Oklahoma when I recommended it above, but I just took one this morning. How can anyone resist this dark, dark red beauty?

Oklahoma HT

Very floriferous and (so far) disease resistant. Nice overall appearance of the whole plant. It has been in my garden only since late April, but it was obviously a mature container plant when I bought it at my local garden center.


    Bookmark   June 20, 2014 at 11:32AM
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canadian_rose(zone 3a)

Oh!! Beautiful!!! Oklahoma has such pretty flowers. I love the purple on yours!!!

    Bookmark   June 21, 2014 at 1:43AM
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Dinglehopp3r z7A. EastTN

My Chrysler Imperial has a pleasant round-ish shape and has had fairly reliable blooming over the few months it has been with me, not bad for a young plant!

Kate, that photo of Oklahoma is gorgeous, now I want one! I had no idea it was such a deep velvety red. Lovely.


This post was edited by Dinglehopp3r on Sat, Jun 21, 14 at 15:56

    Bookmark   June 21, 2014 at 3:52PM
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Desertgarden- Las Vegas, Z8b @ 2800 ft.


Your Oklahoma is gorgeous!!!


    Bookmark   June 21, 2014 at 4:08PM
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poorbutroserich(Nashville 7a)

I love love love Oklahoma. And Mr. Lincoln. The only fragrant red I've ever grown that meets the requirements would be Barcelona/Francis Dubreuil. This is a bullet proof rose. Slow to grow, like a tea. But the color is gorgeous and the scent is to die for. I'm getting almost continuous bloom at this time in the season.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2014 at 6:01PM
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