Is this normal growth for Deep Secret? Several pictures.

Rosecandy VA, zone 7July 13, 2014

Here's the backstory:
I bought Deep Secret as an own root band back in April. Soon after planting her I mulched her with pine bark mulch. I have clay soil that retains water well, so I haven't had to water my roses much dispite the weather constantly being in the upper 80s to upper 90s. It's also been very humid nearly all spring and summer. My roses have faired well, though a few times I accidentally let them get a little water stressed. Recently we were in a little drought. The grass was dying and weeds were wilting, and when you passed by a field you could easily see they were stressed. I neglected my roses during most of this time due to a hectic schedule, though the roses that showed the worst stress I did manage to water. Deep Secret was not one of them. She has never been a fast grower, though she has always been quite bushy on her single cane and I was very pleased with her health. Then, about two weeks ago I picked some Comfrey leaves and placed them around some of my roses to give them a bit of a boost. I had experienced with Sunrise at Heirloom that Comfrey seemed to make her explode with growth, so I figured it would do Deep Secret a lot of good. A few days (I'm not entirely sure how long, but it was no more than a week) later we got a nice heavy rain - the first rain in weeks.

Within a couple days Deep Secret shot up a second cane. This cane was thicker than the first and much, much taller and less bushy. It's RIGHT next to the first one, so for a while I thought it was just a flower shoot. What struck me as odd was the number of thorns on it. It has many more thorns than any of the other growth from the first cane and my concern was RRV. After careful research I decided it couldn't be RRV. The reasons I decided it wasn't RRV are:

- Several other roses I fertilized with comfrey are also putting out quite a bit of new growth.
- Deep Secret is a hybrid tea. The new growth from Midas Touch is also putting out a new, taller blooming shoot. Stainless Steel is also a hybrid tea and it put out two blooming shoots taller than this one while the rest of its growth remained closer to the ground. Moonlight Magic had similar growth as well. Stainless Steel and Moonlight Magic are obviously healthy and their growth is weeks older.
- The new growth on all my roses is rubbery, and the new growth from Deep Secret becomes hardened after only a day or two (the thorns most noticably).
- The new growth turns green within a few days. The leaves are also turning green except for the underside, and it's normal for my roses to have the underside remain red for a while longer (especially the hybrid teas).
- Its a second cane, and sometimes new canes are different from the old canes.
- Hot and humid weather is known to do crazy things to rose bushes, and this growth happened right after a rainstorm which is known to encourage new growth in all plants.
- The pictures of RRV roses look nothing like this growth.

Deep Secret continued to grow and today I noticed it finally put out a new bud. I've still been reading threads on RRV, and what I've read worries me.

- This cane is just SO different from the first one that I can't get rid of the feeling that something's wrong.
- The sepals seem extra long, and though this has happened to underdeveloped hybrid tea buds on my roses many times it still concerns me.
- From every leaf "branch" there is a new actual branch growing. Though Deep Secret is very bushy, this is not normal for the first cane.
- The new growth on the first cane is nothing like this growth: it doesn't have a huge number of thorns and there isn't a branch coming out of every leaf-branch.

So, I decided for peace of mind I MUST ask about it. I wish I could send in a specimine and find out for sure, but I haven't been able to find a way online. I really, really want to keep this rose. It's very possible that this cane is older than I think it is, because this rose bush is so bushy, tight, and thorny that it's difficult for me to inspect it. If it makes a difference, this rose has nearly always had a spiderweb in it. There haven't been any worm issues and I've checked the webs for them. They seem to be made by genuine spiders rather than any insect (today I found a spider on it, even). I have not destroyed any of the webs except for today because I want to encourage spiders to eat bad bugs.

Here are some pictures:
This is to show how much taller it is than the first cane. This entire new cane has grown within about two weeks and stands a little over a foot tall. Also notice that the center is the bushiest.

This is showing the green of the new growth. All of the thorns are hard now and there are no branches this far down. I don't know what the dark thing is on the left. It feels like a scab. If the cane is older than I think it is than it's possible I pulled a damaged leaf-branch and accidentally ripped the skin.

This is the bud. It feels squishy like there's only air above the green. The hard part feels like a ball rather than a rain-drop. Then again, this bud is one day old, if that.

This shows the branch and leaf-branch thing. You can also see the number of thorns on the smaller branches. See how the number of thorns on the front branch are more than the ones in the background? Is that normal?

This is a new branch on the first cane. Notice how few thorns it has.

This is an older branch on the first cane. It has more thorns than the new branch on the same cane. This branch is 1-2 weeks older than the new cane and the underside of the leaves are starting to turn green (though the picture doesn't show it well).

This shows how close the two canes are to each other. The one to the left is the first cane.

If you want more pictures or something, let me know!

Oh, I'm in Virginia, zone 7.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Looks like healthy new growth to me. I don't usually start worrying about RRD (or RRV) until I see some truly UGLY growth--like a cancer growing out of control.

We will see what some other posters have to say, but in the meantime, just keep an eye on it (and water it) until some really weird growth appears--then let us see a picture of it.

If you are a new rose-mommy, keep in mind that anxiety attacks are not uncommon to newbies--because you care for your roses, of course. Take 3 deep breaths and carry on! : )


    Bookmark   July 13, 2014 at 2:02PM
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seil zone 6b MI

There's a lot of healthy growth there. It doesn't seem at all distorted or hyper thorny. I think it's fine.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2014 at 2:05PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

I agree, it looks normal. On the Antiques forum, someone asked about their 'Crepuscule' and I wrote a post about how my 'Jaune Desprez' grew last year from a similar-looking band. Generally, when you receive an own-root band, the growth it has is what you'd see on the pruned-off-for-cuttings part of a mature plant -- so the thinner outer stems. These "baby canes" will feed the plant, and when the roots have enough reserves, a stouter cane will emerge that's more typical of "from the ground" substance. You may find (as I have, with my bands from last year) that the original growth it had when you received it will gradually fade away as the rose continues to push thick new canes. For many of mine, I simply pruned them off this year if I felt there were enough new shoots coming from the base -- they were flopping on the ground by now, anyway.



Here is a link that might be useful: What is up with this Crepuscule I received?

    Bookmark   July 13, 2014 at 3:06PM
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Rosecandy VA, zone 7

Awesome! That gives me so much relief! I will take some deep breaths and relax...until the next thing worries me, haha!

I'll keep in mind what you said, Aquaeyes, and not freak out if that happens to my bands.

I really appreciate this forum and everyone on it! Thank you so much guys!

    Bookmark   July 13, 2014 at 5:36PM
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