Thalictrum you like

rouge21_gw(5)October 22, 2011

I have seen many posts this summer and fall extolling the virtues of Thalictrum 'Splendide'. I get the impression from my on-line reading that it is the superior variety of all the many perennial varieties of Thalictrum. However for many of us it is too large a plant for our smaller residential gardens.

Do you have personal experiences with smaller stature Thalictrums that are perform very well in your garden?

How much shade can these plants tolerate (and of course still flower)?

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christinmk z5b eastern WA

You NEED (yes I am enabling!) to try out Thalictrum ichangense 'Evening Star'! It is a stellar little plant. Mine is about eight inches tall with small double-ish pink/purple flowers on delicate, wiry stems. Looking at my pics from spring, it looks like it started blooming late May early June and still has blooms as of today! The foliage is an interesting olive/bronze-purple color with light veins. It hasn't grown too much since last spring (when I got it), but that could be because it isn't in the best spot.

Thalictrum kiusianum is another small type of Meadow Rue. I don't grow it myself (yet!), but think it is about the same height as 'Evening Star'.

Thalictrum aquilegifolium is slightly bigger at around three feet, but still smaller than a lot of other kinds. Just got seeds of it, so can't say much about growing it yet.

I've got other Thalictrums, but they are all the bigger sorts ;-)
CMK

    Bookmark   October 22, 2011 at 1:59PM
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aachenelf z5 Mpls

I love Thalictrum rochebruneanum 'Lavender Mist'. It's a very tall plant (6 feet or more), but the whole thing is so light and airy, it's easy to use even in a small garden.

I also grow kiusianum, but it's never grown over 3 inches tall which makes finding it a good place kind of difficult. Heck! The primrose next to it kind of overwhelms it! It's very cute though.

As far as shade and sun goes, the more sun the better, but not hot afternoon sun.

Kevin

    Bookmark   October 22, 2011 at 2:11PM
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christinmk z5b eastern WA

-Kevin, interesting your kiusianum hasn't gotten bigger than three inches! Does it put on a good show of flowers though?? I also found placing my 'Evening Star' difficult, since it is such a delicate plant and probably easy to crowd out or overshadow with larger/showier shade plants! I ended up planting mine along the border of my front shade garden with some other 'mini' shade plants like Aslenium trichomanes and 'Moonlight Treasure' Tricyrtis.
CMK

    Bookmark   October 22, 2011 at 10:35PM
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aachenelf z5 Mpls

CMK

Yes, it blooms nicely and has slowly spread to make a decent sized clump, but I do have to find a better place for it - just to make better use of its individual charm.

The size of this plant has also puzzled me for a very long time. From what I've read, it should be taller. Maybe it was mislabeled when I purchased it and it's another species entirely?

Kevin

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 6:04AM
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wieslaw59

Kevin, I had the same problem with Thalictrum aquilegifolium Thundercloud. Catalogues said one meter or so. I have bougt it twice and both times it grew only to 40 cm or so . And there was nothing spectacular about it. Not a single thunder came out of it. I want also warn you about Thalictrum Black Stockings which is supposed to have black stems. Plants from laboratories DO NOT HAVE BLACK STOCKINGS! At least not all!! So buying plugs is 'risky'.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 6:20AM
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christinmk z5b eastern WA

-Kevin, adorable!!! I think it is charming that your plant is even MORE miniature! Did you buy it online or some local place? Only thing I could think of for it being uber small is that it is planted in a lot of shade and is therefore dwarfed OR it was seed raised and happens to have turned out to be a smaller form of the species. If you end up moving it to a sunnier site it might get taller, who knows!

-wieslaw, how interesting that 'Black Stockings' does not come true by culture. I thought that vegetative propagation pretty much the only way to ensure a hybrid came true to form.
I feel the same. It is getting insane how many plants "they" are introducing onto the market as "new" or has some special, unique quality when in reality it looks exactly the same as many other cultivars out there!
CMK

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 1:58PM
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aachenelf z5 Mpls

CMK

I purchased this from someplace local years and years ago. Actually, it is getting quite a bit of sun - probably more than 3/4 day. Maybe the soil isn't moist enough? Not sure.

I was thinking the same thing about possibly being a seed raised plant. Maybe these are highly variable if grown that way.

K

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 4:24PM
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wieslaw59

CMK, theoretically micropropagation should produce identical clones. But when daylilies began to be propagated some years ago , it was found out, that it is not always the case. A single cell can mutate, and when it is divided many times, thousands of mutants can be produced. The whole Europe is flooded with cheap daylilies from Holland, where the plants bear very remote resemblance to mother plants. I bought Sabine Bauer and when it bloomed it looked like dish water or something. This could be solved by letting the plants bloom before selling them and weed the mutants out. But here is the problem : nearly nobody does it.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 7:15PM
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flora2b(z6a bc)

Thalictrums I have for different reasons, all deer resistant. Haven't heard of some that have been discussed.

Spring blooming Thalictrum Aquilegifolium, blooming white, about 2-3 ft tall

and pink

Summer blooming, Thalictrum Rochebrunianium, blooms about a month, 4-5 ft tall.

and my very favorite, which started blooming in July and is still blooming right now, doesn't spread (wished it would or at least set seed) Thalictrum Delavayi Decorum, about 3-4ft, lovely and airy in part shade


Flora

    Bookmark   October 23, 2011 at 11:13PM
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christinmk z5b eastern WA

Oh Flora!!!! I am so in love with your Thalictrum delavayi decorum! I have never seen one offered around here...BOO! ;-(
CMK

    Bookmark   October 24, 2011 at 12:27AM
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wieslaw59

I have tried T.d.decorum, died for me. The ones that thrive for me and are free from problems are: T.pubescens(= polygamum) from USA and T.flavens subsp. glauca. Different plants of T.flavens glauca differ in the degree of blueness of the leaves and the intensity of yellow flowers; they make a great companion plants for tall blue Delphiniums.
Thalictrum aquilegifolium is prone to mildew in dry places and is more often atacked by hordes of aphids.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2011 at 8:36AM
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rouge21_gw(5)

Call me crazy but I bought two 'Splendide' (in pots) TODAY (October 28). And just last night we got our first heavy frost! Tomorrow I will dig two holes and back fill with a combination of triple mix, 'rock dust' and a bit of sheep manure. And to finish it off I will surround them with lots of mulch. I am going all out to do what I can to give them a chance at surviving the winter.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 6:37PM
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rouge21_gw(5)

I noticed that the on-line 2012 catalogue of my favourite nursery shows a Thalictrum called Anne.

I don't see much about it elsewhere online.

They describe it as follows:

An explosive new introduction with tall,dark purple
stems with masses of lavender ball-shaped buds
erupt in a fireworks of long yellow stamens.Blooms
in July and August.A hybrid between T.
rochebrunianum and T.flavum

Do any of you have it?

    Bookmark   January 28, 2012 at 10:21AM
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wieslaw59

I do not have it, but as far as I know it is the same cross between T.rocherbrunianum and T.flavens as T. Elin. There was much rave about Elin too, so I bought it. It grew well and healthy, but the flowers did not resemble the beautiful pictures at all, so it went to the compost pile. There was nothing spectacular about it. Maybe the tissue culture has a bad influence on it. But I admit the foliage was quite good on this one

    Bookmark   January 28, 2012 at 5:50PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

this may not be helpful ...

a few years back.. i bought a couple or 4 ...

my favorite ended up being the one that survived my neglect.. and prospered ...

and i have no clue which one it was ...

please refer to the first line

ken

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 5:21PM
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rouge21_gw(5)

UPDATE: This first year "Splendide" has been a great addition to my garden. (See below).

The flowers last for such long time...now going on for 5 weeks and hopefully will be there till the end of August!

I am looking now for a white flowering Thalictrum, less tall with white flowers but importantly also flowering mid to late summer (like my "Splendide"). It seems flora2b's "Aquilegifolium" is spring flowering but I do like the shape of those flowers...nice to be different than my "Splendide".

Does anyone know about Thalictrum "Sprinkler" with respect to flowering time?

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 7:17AM
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Ispahan Zone6a Chicago

Rouge21, beautiful photo! I planted 3 Thalictrum 'Splendide' this spring. They have not really grown much (the tallest is now approaching three feet tall), but they have managed to bloom for at least the last six weeks and show no signs of stopping. I can't wait to see how they will perform next year!

Another Thalictrum you might like which is also new to me is 'Hewitt's Double'. The blooms look like beautiful airy sprays of baby's breath that sway gracefully in the breeze. My spring-planted specimens have been in bloom for at least the past five weeks. Since the blossoms are fully double and sterile, they last and last and last.

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 10:53AM
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rouge21_gw(5)

ispahan, my "Splendide" in the picture above was one of two I put in the ground purchased and then planted in October 2011. However both came through that 'baby' winter just fine but the one above has been much more vigorous than the one shown below i.e. the one above is just over 6 feet tall and has been blooming for 5 weeks; the one below is 2.5 feet tall and has just this week shown flowers! They are in different gardens and the smaller one is in much poorer soil and does not receive nearly as much water.

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 1:04PM
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rouge21_gw(5)

ispahan wrote: Another Thalictrum you might like which is also new to me is 'Hewitt's Double'. The blooms look like beautiful airy sprays of baby's breath that sway gracefully in the breeze. My spring-planted specimens have been in bloom for at least the past five weeks. Since the blossoms are fully double and sterile, they last and last and last.

Thanks for the suggestion. I am/was considering it but your description seems too much like "Splendide" which I have in an adjacent garden about 25 feet away. So I am looking for a Thalictrum with a different looking flower (different from "Splendide") and is less tall...less than 4 feet hopefully. But I do want it to flower at the same time as "Splendide" ie mid summer and lasting through August. Thalictrum "Sparkler" looks and sounds promising but I have a feeling that it is a late spring early summer bloomer.

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 1:22PM
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twrosz

Here's my Thalictrum 'Splendide' (photo a bit over exposed) plant is a giant at well over 7 ft high and topped with a massive 3 x 3 head of bloom, it's quite an amazing and much admired plant! I think I'm gonna carefully divide it next spring and hope to make an additional two more plants.

Terrance

    Bookmark   August 30, 2012 at 11:39PM
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rouge21_gw(5)

twrosz, yours is another best picture of 2012 on GW! Incredible. I am now a bit embarrassed having posted mine.

I am thinking that the density of the flowers on yours is due to its age and its location (mine doesn't get much strong sun...lots of dappled).

How long has it been in that location?

How much direct sun does it receive?

(And still thinking of finding a location for another 'Splendide' I am curious how wide is this particular specimen right now?)

    Bookmark   August 31, 2012 at 6:30AM
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Campanula UK Z8

the humble T.delavayii album has been a lovely plant to light up darker areas and flourishes in my sons garden under an enormous Madame Alfred Carriere rose.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2012 at 8:54AM
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twrosz

"I am now a bit embarrassed having posted mine" ... mmmm, planted with that hydrangea and the clematis in the background, looks great to me and I'm gonna steal the combo idea :)

Several years ago, I so nearly had tossed Thalictrum 'Splendide' in the compost pile. For two seasons it languished against the east side of my house, I mean it grew no more than 8" high and always covered in mildew. Was gonna throw in the towel, though recalled just how highly touted the plant was, so I plunked it in the main large flowerbed with no thought as to placement or care to tend it. The following summer it made a nice recovery and a friend noticed it and remarked "OMG, Terry, I love, love, love that big purple plant and must have one for myself!

The plant is about six years old, the first two seasons don't count, as it was pathetically barely hanging onto life then. It's been in its current location for two years now and in very deeply amended soil with good moisture and full sun. As to the width, I'd say the foliage near the bottom isn't much more than 2' wide, though the flowering top is impressively large.

Here's another photo

    Bookmark   August 31, 2012 at 4:53PM
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rouge21_gw(5)

I just am in awe of that picture. I am now glad to hear you that you have your picture perfect "Splendide" in full sun as just this afternoon, inspired by your post twrosz I moved my second less flourishing "Splendide", the one pictured about 6 posts above this one to a much more sunny location.

Btw, does your "Splendide" have any stake support?

    Bookmark   August 31, 2012 at 5:10PM
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twrosz

Out of curiosity, I measured the plant, it towers over 8 ft in height! I tie the stems to a sturdy bamboo stake, otherwise the plant is face down to the ground after any storms.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2012 at 5:42PM
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a2zmom(6a - nj)

twrosz, that is an absolutely beautiful plant. As it so happens, I am in the midst of increasing my two front beds (lawn? Who needs lawn?) and I know at least one plant that I will be adding!

    Bookmark   August 31, 2012 at 9:32PM
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twrosz

a2zmom, I hope you enjoy this plant as much as I do, mine always stops people in their tracks, myself included! Prepare the soil deeply and be sure to water regularly during hot dry weather. I'm unsure as to how much blazing hot sun the plant can take, as the heat received here pales in comparison to your region.

flora2b, your Thalictrum Delavayi Decorum is outstanding, I really must acquire this gem!

    Bookmark   August 31, 2012 at 11:37PM
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rouge21_gw(5)

twrosz wrote: your Thalictrum Delavayi Decorum is outstanding, I really must acquire this gem!

I agree twrosz and I spent some time searching many quality Canadian nurseries with no success (except for one in BC). So instead I picked up a couple of "Hewitt's Double", another "Splendide", 1 "Sparkler" and 2 more "Evening Star"!

    Bookmark   September 1, 2012 at 1:02AM
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twrosz

I'll have to order off for Thalictrum Delavayi Decorum and must obtain 'Evening Star' ... I know 'ES' strain can vary, can anyone please post photos, love to see!

    Bookmark   September 1, 2012 at 4:55PM
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rouge21_gw(5)

Well twrosz let me know if you find a Canadian supplier of "Delavayi Decorum" that ships across country!

FWIW here is a picture of my 2 year old 'ES'. I had quickly placed it in the totally wrong location a couple of years back as it is at the very back of a deep bed and so is totally hidden from anyone strolling by the front edge of the garden. With its delicate features it must be positioned so that it is extra easily seen.

    Bookmark   September 1, 2012 at 5:46PM
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