the new leaves on my tea rose are yellow to begin with (the baby leaves) and stay yellow. what am i doing wrong? do they need iron or some other food?
Which fertilizer have you used? It is usually caused by some kind of nutrient deficiency, either lack of nitrogen, iron or magnesium. Basic soil amendments like compost and organic fertilizer will get you far. When it is urgent like now it can be helped with watering in some kind of liquid fertilizer. I like the organic ones, but any with all NPK and full list of micronutrients will help. It also helps to know if you have acid or alcaline soil in your area. If it ph is way off it needs sorting out, it will intefere with nutrients absorbtion in the root. Anything from 5.5 to 7 is easy to manage though. Very compact and/or wet soil can be the reason too.
i put magnum grow for roses on it a week ago and some iron, thinking iron could be the problem. magnum grow was recommended to me by a man who grew potted roses and won prizes. i have had the container for 6 years and just used it now. i have no idea how often to use it. and how do i test the ph? thanks so much by the way.
Those who grow roses in green houses often use these 100% water soluble fertilizers. They are ideal for automatic watering systems, and easy to use in a can if needed. Ideally it is used every time you water, but once a week works too. If it is a small potted rose it should do all right. I googled it and your fertilizer have enormous amounts of phosphorous (NPK 8-10-8). Is it meant to be used all growing season? It's probably a very good product though.
However, I grow roses outdoors in the ground and a few in containers. I turned to organic fertilizer after the first few years, the plants surive winter much better and live longer. I live in an area with frost in winters.
In theory your rose should be all healthy looking of you used the fertilizer regularly. This type of fertilizer is absorbed very easily and can show results litterally over night. Did you use new soil in the pot when you planted the rose?
This post was edited by taoseeker on Fri, Jul 19, 13 at 6:25
my roses are in the ground here. that is why i asked about the ph. it has been a week since i used the magnum and no results. i watered again yesterday. what i do is put the hose on low and let it soak for 30 minutes. in this heat i imagine i have to do this 2x a week? and how about fertilizer? once a week? i think i used a tablespoon per plant.
by the way, i like your name and love the taoist teachings.
You could be over watering your roses.
Read the article link I've posted.
I had unknowingly over watered my roses when i first got them and suddenly had yellow leaves. I live in the north east where we are in the midst of a massive heat wave and I only water once a week. When its not so hot and we have some rain I water every other week. I put a pencil in the ground and let it sit for about 5 minutes. If the pencil is wet looking I do not water. If it comes out dry I water. I do the same with my orchids.
Here is a link that might be useful: how to properly water your roses
Pencil? My grandchildren gave me one once but I could not figure out how to use it. Where do you put the battery?
If you have had flooding rains this month, like most in the eastern and southern US, it could be iron deficiency caused by water logging. The leaves will slowly green up when some oxygen is able to get into the soil. If the iron problem recurs, and you have lower leaves turning yellow and dying as well, you may need to raise the bed a few inches.
If the soil is not water logged, check the pH and adjust into the slightly acid range if needed. Often 1/2 cup of sulfur per square yard is appropriate.
Most soils have plenty of iron, but soil conditions can render it unavailable to the plant.
Is your rosefeed grey or white granules (perhaps blue or green too), or does it look more like sugar and dissolves fast and completely in water? I cannot figure out which type of fertilizer Magnum Rose Food is when searching on the web. If it is the sugar type (may be coloured too though) it has to be dissolved into water before application. Granules can be spread out dry like you did and will eventually dissolve and seep down into the roots.
One application of solid fertilzier a week ago might not have done much yet. Since you have watered well it should in theory though. Can you still se any trace of it? If it is the dry granule type it can be spread lightly around the rose, about as wide as the rose is tall is common advice. Smaller plants at least in a radius of a foot or two. If possible take a fork and stir it into the top layer. Granule type fertilizer is usually used two or three times a year, at least when spread out dry. If you live in an area with lots of rain you can use it more often, once a month or so but apply less.
If the soil drains fine you have not overwatered. A hybrid tea easily needs a bucked or two of water a week,. For a large tea rose with deep roots watering is probably not that urgent, but thoroughly when done. A trick is to dig down a few inches into the soil, grab some and if you can sqeeze out a bit of water enough to dampen your hand it is wet enough.
If the weather is dry and very hot I would recommend dissolving a bit of the firtilizer in a watering can or bucket and water it down into the soil. Don't make the solution too consentrated. A table spoon in bucket of water should be fine though (directions should be on the package really).
Regarding pH, there are strips, tests, and even electronical pH meters available where they sell garden related stuff. They don't cost as much as they used to, but still a bit though. There is even a method using red cabbage!! You can send in a soil sample to a local laboratory and know all about it. You can be fairly safe it has about the same ph which is common in your area. Talk to your neighbors ;-)
Still, if you haven't used any organic stuff in years I would recommend getting a bag or several of compost, cowmanure or simmilar and blend it into the top layer around your roses. Use some kind of solid organic fertilizer once or twice a year. There are much less trouble with strange nutrient deficiencies then.
Soil should be able to breathe, in other words not too compact and dense. It should hold water fairly well too. What type of soil do you have? Could be sandy, clay, contain little or lots of organic matter. If you see earthworms they are a good sign.
Thanks to everyone.
First, my roses looked good early in the spring, but we had so much rain that it almost killed them, so I can see that they could have an iron deficiency, and do my azaelas on the other side of the house. I gave them all iron over a week ago. Our land is on a slope so I imagine that all the iron washed down the hill.
I put a huge T. in a bucket of water, and it is the color of green. I did this again today. Will wait for another week to do it again. The roses may need more water since it is hot and dry, and it takes me a while to get around to putting the hose on them. Haven't had rain in a while. I also see that I am only putting the bucket of water around the rose, but if i put it outside a little, it would run off.
I also remember talking to the Antique Rose Emporium and was told not to use Magnum Rose. That was last year, and now I don't recall why. But I can get cow manure.
We have tons of earthworms here.
When I learned how the rains were doing my roses, I dug a trench around them and so now the water goes way in front of them. I was able to save them in this manner. I also had to remove the compost around them because it wouldn't allow them to dry out. Now I probably need compost.
Forgot to read the article posted on over-watering but when when I am finished with this.
I don't know what you call our Oklahoma soil, I don't live in red dirt country, but it is very rocky, but where I have the roses it is good soil. I will try using a water meter before watering them again. I suppose if it says moist, don't water?
Rose Emporium had suggested Sea Tea for a fertilizer, which is what I was using early on, but nothing was happening, so I went to Magnum Grow. I still have a gallon of concentrated Sea Tea and can go back to using that.
If the roses are showing iron deficiency without being waterlogged, you should check the pH. I use a Rapi-Test meter. It is best to correct the pH with sulfur rather than applying iron all the time. There is already iron in the soil. Best pH for roses is 6.0-6.7. For azaleas, around 5.5.
Here's what our rose leaves look like from all the rain we got and soil got water logged.. (Only the roses planted out front of house...)
ooops I double posted! Sorry
This post was edited by jim1961 on Fri, Jul 19, 13 at 13:25
Might be some kind of deficiency, but looks odd. Hmm....
There is a type of larvae which only eat the thinnest layer of the skin under the leaf, it can look very much like this. It doesn't eat through the leaf, only partially. Then there is a type of cicada, leaf hoppers I think they are called in English. They are like very tiny white grasshoppers which live under the leaves and jump around when you touch the plant. At least the grown ones jump and fly. They suck the juice out of the cells in the leaf and leave traces like this. Can you take a look under the leaves for traces of bugs?
This post was edited by taoseeker on Fri, Jul 19, 13 at 15:30
That pic is not Jessaka's rose leaves...
They are mine... I have 6 roses out front all doing the
same thing after we got 10 inches of rain within 3 weeks time...
jim1961, your roses look better than mine.
Oh, sorry jim, I should pay better attention when reading. It looks horrible, and it hasn't greened up when better weather arrived at all? In theory I thought it would. At least new growth looks fine
Jessaka mentioned yellow new growth and leaves which stayed yellow. I doubt pH can be way off if azaleas are surviving in much the same soil. Roses usually don't have any noticeable trouble from pH 5.5 and up, but ideal is more narrow.
...but : "I put a huge T in a bucket of water..." ??
Regarding fertilzer, it looks like we think differently where I live than in US. In my mind a good rose fertilizer has some thing like NPK 5-2-5, or even 7-2-7, maybe 7-2-5. Soil usually have enough phosphorus, at least if we use bone meal when planting or yearly doses dried chicken pellets and even cow manure. It stays in the soil for years and usually accumulate when it is fertilzied. The trick is to add organic matter and enough nitrogen to activate microorganisms to work on the bound phosphorous. High levels of water soluble phosphorus is usually for green houses and pots. Sea Tea with NPK 2-3-2 is probably a good fertilizer, but you probably need more nitrogen and potassium?
This post was edited by taoseeker on Fri, Jul 19, 13 at 17:50
My magnum grow is 8-10-8. By T. I meant that I put a T. of it in a bucket for water for each plant.
here is a photo of my rose bush. the darker leaves are old leaves. as you see even the rose that tried to grow didn't.
I see what you mean jessaca. I had roses like that when I made a bed with sand and bags of pure peat soil. No matter how much I fertilzed it never improved. The only thing which made them perk up was those 100% soluble fertilizers with all micronutrients. I'm not sure what the correct term for them are, but the Miracle Grow type fertilizer and liquid once in bottles.
After years of trouble and amendments which never did much I changed tactics completely. Much less peat if any at all, real soil,, composted bark and woodchips, cowmanure compost, a bit of mineral rich clay,green sand, sandy soil from the ground...all sorts to make a better soil. It worked luckily.
I am just thinking out loud now but I suppose first step is chicking ph. Then possible draining problems. Generally working with the soil to get it more porous, adding compost and organic matter, growing different plants, is much the same for any pH though. It helps make nutrients more available by its' self.
Maybe your soil is too compact even in drier periods? Waterlogging usually clears up after rain, and should not last for weeks after. I have something like this in spring, when it sometimes rains a lot and the soil is still cold. If you have earthworms it should not be too bad though. Is it possible to turn the top layer around the plant with a small shovel, and mix in some compost? Airing the soil should some times not be underestimated. The gardener at the local rosarium does it at least once or twice a year. Hacking at it with a rake or metal claw of some sort now and then if soil hardens. Adding compost and seaweed meal should have improved this though.
This post was edited by taoseeker on Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 5:52
last year these roses were so beautiful, lush green many roses. too much rain and i get this. then the dry spell didn't help. the soil around them is soft. if they don't perk up from this last fertilizing i will get some cow manure and work it into the ground. they are not waterlogged but too dry now from lack of rain.
Jessaka, apparently your roses have iron deficiency caused by high pH (since you rule out water logging). Get a pH meter, check the pH and adjust it with sulfur.
Fertilizer is not the issue, except that some fertilizers such as Miracid contain a lot of chelated iron. This is iron that is supposed to be accessible to plants even if the pH is too high.
Do not double up on fertilizer. If you have applied something that says "every 4-6 weeks," don't apply another fertilizer after two weeks. Rule of thumb, most fertilizers contain the same basic nutrients. Doubling up can poison your plants. But again, fertilizer is not your problem and will not fix your problem (unless maybe via chelated iron).
thi, i had a lot of water logging in the spring when we had too much rain. they have been yellow ever since. i bought iron for plants and put it on them over a week ago. i doubt if it was chelated iron though. thanks
Michaelg is right, but I still argue watering with liquid fertilizer (with micronutirents) will improve plants right a way. In the right consentration watering is hardly any risk. I'm thinking of it as a way to sort out if someting is hindering nutrients absorption in the soil, or if something else is wrong (like roots being eaten, damaged....) If things are that bad pH wise there is probably equal deficiency in zink, manganese and other too. However, the most urgent is getting soil to around pH 6. Not sure what can have changed that fast from being fine last year to terrible this year though? Do you have very high calcium in the drinking water in additon to alkaline soil?
Michaelg is right, but I still argue watering with liquid fertilizer (with micronutirents) will improve plants right a way. In the right consentration watering is hardly any risk. I'm thinking of it as a way to sort out if someting is hindering nutrients absorption in the soil, or if something else is wrong (like roots being eaten, damaged....) It sort of bypasses any trouble with soil when applied regularly for a week or two. If things are that bad pH wise there is probably equal deficiency in zink, manganese and other too. However, the most urgent is getting soil to around pH 6. Not sure what can have changed that fast from being fine last year to terrible this year though? Do you have very high calcium in the drinking water in additon to alkaline soil? Too much rain should not have that longlasting effect.
This post was edited by taoseeker on Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 13:22
can you name a brand on here tao? all spring my roses were flooded with water due to all the rain we had.
Rose buds turn downward, as well as new leaves yellow
It doesn't have to be any particular brand. I'm sure your local garden center or where you usually buy your plant and garden stuff have some version of it. I describe it very cumbersomely, but I am trying to describe something very common and ordinary. It is just easy to get the wrong stuff if I'm not precise enough. Liquid organic will work too, just get something which can be watered in two or three times a week for a short period. Your Sea Tea might work just as well, but regular ones like "Miracle Grow", "Dr Earth" even, but as mentioned just as long as it dilutes easily and goes in a watering can; another one is "FoxFarm Grow Big" NPK 6-4-4. Organic ones are just a bit more expensive, and some smelly.
Don't bother too much about brand, just look for something in a bottle or something in a fairly handy size box with a powder which dissolves completely like sugar (no trace of anything in the bottom of the watering can). Make sure it has all NPK, and a good list of trace elements; iron, magnesium, boron, selenium, zink, molybden, cobolt.... NPK number should be something like 7-3-7; 10-5-10, N and K preferably 5 at least. The cheapest ones usually only have NPK, the slightly more expensive ones usually have trace elements too. Prices vary a lot.
This type of liquid artificual fertilziers are not that good for the rose in the long run, but it will help sort things out when use for a shorter period. You can use the remains for anuals, summerflowers, anything which doesn't live outside in winter.
I stil find it odd with your roses being fine last year and early this spring, and now will not recover. PH should not change that suddenly with out a very obvious reason.
Honest to God, I think the the waterlogged conditions are the root of the problem.
When roots are essentially drowning, they cannot absorb nutrients, so it doesn't much matter WHAT you give them. It's like they're locked into a jail cell, with nothing to eat, and piles of food just out of reach on the other side of that barred door.
IF that condition is going to be a continuing problem, roses aren't going to flourish in that location. You will have to fix it, or not grow roses there.
You might have to pull them up, put them in containers, and take the time to remodel the bed, providing decent drainage.
When we first began planting roses, we had to dig French Drains for one area where we had heavy clay.
No our rose leaves never cleared up even though I pushed back the mulch and weather has cleared...
We just had 7 days of 90's temps which may of made our
rose leaves look even worse...
But Jessaka does state her rose leaves turned yellow and stayed yellow after lots of rain...
So waterlogged soil just may be the problem as JeriJen says...
That would explain the sudden change this year...
Yeah, water logging needs to be double checked. Dig a deep hole, at least a foot or so deep, fill it with a bucked of water. If the water is gone within a few minutes it is all right, maxiumum 15 minutes.
In jessaca's case; If it was waterlogging, and now have dried up in the fine weather, Jessaca's roses should in theory have healthy looking new growth. Older leaves might not recover fully, but usually green up noticeably.
Jessaca; is your rosebed made from soil you have bought in bags?
The fertilizers which are 100% water soluble does work in any kind of soil with almost any kind of trouble, waterlogging, compact, "dead", or pH way off, as long as it is applied often. It bypasses the trouble. Soil is a very intersting subject.
I am talking in every which direction, but I am really just trying to sort out the issue ;-)
This post was edited by taoseeker on Sun, Jul 21, 13 at 5:25
thanks tao. we have a limited garden supply in our town, but i can order online.
jenjen, i solved the water logging problem a couple of months ago by digging a trench around my roses, about 2 feet from them.when i pour a bucket of water my my rose bushes, it disappears immediately. new growth is yellow and stays yellow.
we used good soil when planting them 3 years ago, and i had mulched them every year. but moved the mulch away when they were getting too much water and holding it in. the french worked.
A florist or large grocery store should have a good liquid fertilizer. Maybe a feed sale for farmers too.
will check it out tao.
Keep us updated on your rose. Interesting to see which solution solves for the problem ;-)
i will. i just have this dream of roses in front of my house, b.r.cant. i have one other rose, new dawn that looks as bad, and i lost a few of them. i hate to think of finding something to replace the roses with something else.
Cool on the drainage problem is fixed...
Well I also wish you the best and let us know how you make out...
one of the bushes is greening up some. i put epson salt on all of them, about a cup each during the last rain storm, and maybe the rains helped as well.