Pictures of this one on hmf intrigue me but I hear it is a weak grower and gets a lot of blackspot. I'd like to hear how it does from anyone who grows it. Does St. Patrick have a definite green tint to the outer petals?
Heat or hot, direct sunlight brings out the greenest tints in St. Patrick in my garden. When it gets colder, say around 75F or below, it looks more golden. I have been extremely impressed with it so far.
I also have Table Mountain, which does the same for me. It's a pretty light pink or white/pink blend with a outer row of greenish petals. I really like it. Unfortunately I have no pics to linky here on my work computer, but there are some good ones on HMF that show its variability.
There's always Wedding Cake, if you like that sort of thing & can find it....it's a Floribunda, though.
Another odd one I've lusted after is Sheila MacQueen.
Harkness bred Greensleeves and wrote that when he first showed it at the Chelsea Flower Show, a little girl exclaimed to her mother, "Mummy, look! A sea sick rose!" He didn't like how the flowers fully expanded and the stamen turned black. At that stage, he felt it looked like "a dirty, green ashtray". The flowers last weeks on the plant, turning very green with age and water spotting dark, "dried blood red-brown", but it is spectacular in a vase where it will green very well without the water spots.
He then bred Sheila MacQueen, hoping to improve upon Greensleeves. Both are rather "Kordes-like" or "McGredy-like" plants, getting tall, rangy and floppy with many prickles, like floribundas from those breeders of the 1980s and 1990s, and both can have issues with mildew and black spot, so aren't choice candidates for high disease pressure areas without spray. Sheila's buds are nearly fluorescent apricot-amber and age quite green both on the plant and in a vase. She is an improvement on Greensleeves in that her petals don't fully expand flat, so they help cover up the blackened stamen. Both are wonderful novelties for a Coffee Rose bed.
Rainforest, a Ralph Moore "miniature", is an improvement on Greensleeves, both in plant vigor, habit, health and flower. The photo is how it looks right now in the back yard.
Mint Julep is one which pretty much requires budding to really produce. It will grow own root, but no where near as well, nor with as many blooms. The hotter it is, the greener the flowers. They seem to last forever, both on the plant and in a vase. Table Mountain isn't as green, but it is a better plant with better form. Kordes chose not to introduce it in Germany due to mildew problems. Ludwig's Roses did introduce it in South Africa, where the hotter, more arid climate reduced the mildew issue. It was named for the prominent landmark overlooking Cape Town. It was popular for a short time as an exhibition rose. It is OK own root, but definitely better budded. Greensleeves, Sheila and Rainforest are acceptable plants own root.
The link is for an article, "Coffee Roses", I wrote back in the mid nineties for Potpourri of Roses, the Huntington Volunteer Newsletter, about the brown, gray and green roses. It contains descriptions resulting from collecting, growing and studying them for a number of years in my old Newhall garden. Kim
Here is a link that might be useful: Coffee Roses on Paul Barden's, Old Garden Roses and Beyond
I've been on the hunt for a "green" rose too ever since I started getting into roses.
So far I've tried these:
Table Mtn: Prob the closest to green that I've been able to find. I think that the pink tends to make the green tones look brighter. Lots of BS though...
Mint Julip: Added this one own root from Vintage. It does BS alot for me, but it also blooms pretty well for being own root.
Greensleeves: Does terrible here! Completely defoliates before the leaves even mature, and I've yet to get a bloom off of it in 2 years :(
Wedding Cake: Really like this one! Kind of a funky rose in general, which I like. I was doing well and blooming until it got a case of scale insects (which apparently aren't commen here in the SE, so I think it may have been shipped with them)
Leading Lady: a mini-flora. I have it in partial shade and it does have true green shadings, but a lot of BS as well.
Green Ice: Another one that is pretty close to a light green. Does well, and not a ton of BS like the others.
I haven't tried Sheila McQueen, but have been eyeing that one. I may try it at some point.
Acropolis is another one that I've been happy with. Nice green undertones and not much BS. Tends to ball a little, but nothing I can't live with.
St. Patrick is yellow for me :( Very little green...maybe I need to move it into a sunnier location after reading the other posts.
There's also a rose called Green Romantica which is a florists rose. I've been SOOOO tempted to try it, but I figure if I can't grow hybrid teas very well, I prob wouldn't have much luch with a florists rose (besides, all of the HMF comments talk about how much blackspot it gets)
Kim, I'm kinda wanting Rainforst now! lol
This is a picture of Mint Julep that I took a few minutes ago...
Oh---I totally forgot---this year I added Sunstruck. Often with a first year rose I'll do some odd things, like deadheading blooms at different intervals to see what it likes best.
I left 2 or 3 blooms on & they never dropped their petals. It "fades" to a greenish-white color as well, but nowhere near as attractive to me as Table Mountain, Sheila, or what I just saw of Rainforest.
Nor'East grows Rainforest. You might contact Burling to see if she can get it from them. Failing that, there are always cuttings...Kim
Wow..thank you for all the comments and pictures on ones you grow! I had no idea you were so intrigued with green roses, Tammy. This is a new interest for me. I'm glad to hear some of these are doing well for you Flaurabunda, Tammy, and Kim.
Kim, that is just a fabulous and very comprehensive article! Now I have lots more roses to look up. I have long been curious about Victoriana but now Egyptian Buff, Cafe, Fantan, Brown Velvet, Julia's Rose and Kim's Cream sound so exotic. I had heard that Julia's Rose was hard to grow but sounds like it did well for you. Both the brown and green roses sound like they'd make very interesting arrangements. Mostly I don't cut roses but do sometimes. The possibilities would be great with these. Tammy , I have had my eye on Green Romantica also but it's patented so I passed it up. Eden has a nice watermelon rind green tinge to the outer petals sometimes. The green China, I think it's Viridiflora, looks interesting but in pictures it doesn't look like a flower. How is it in person?
Viridiflora is a marvelous plant for me! As with most Chinas, it resents being whacked back hard, so let it get as large as you can and it will flower year round here. It isn't one you cut for itself, unless you want a small bouquet of its very intriguing, odd, peppery scented "flowers". Where it really excels is as a filler in a bouquet of other blooms. I grow it as well as the "Reversion", which, unfortunately appears to be wanting to "revert" to the green! Dang-it!
I'll have to dig around to see if I can find the slides of the gray-green arrangement in a white ceramic pitcher and the "brown vignette" Earlie Mae Payne created from them for my Unusual Roses presentation for a Huntington Old Rose Symposium back in the nineties.
The pitcher contained Grey Pearl, Grey Dawn, Mint Julep, Greensleeves, Sheila MacQueen, and perhaps, Viridiflora. It has been MANY years since I looked at the slides, but I remember cutting them all for the arrangements as I also had them all propagated for the plant sale. The Brown Vignette contained all of the browns I could collect to that point...Fantan, Brownie, Brown Study, Brown Velvet, Jocelyn, Victoriana, Julia's Rose, Golden Julia, Edith Holden, Vesper, Distant Drums (at its cinnamon stage), with russet and silver shades of foliage, both dried and fresh. They were quite interesting! Kim
Elfe is a truly lovely, healthy green-tinged creamy white climbing rose bred by Tantau - a beautiful rose, imo which does not discolour, streak or shrivel (faults of many greenish roses). It always looks very fresh to me.
Kim, I was looking at the Viridiflora Reversion on HMF a couple of months ago...very interesting. It still has that really vegitative look to it, but more true petals. Sorry to hear yours in reverting back :(
Linda, yes I have a green rose quest going on...unfortunetly none of my greens are standouts in my garden so far (the worst growers have been Table Mtn & Greensleeves...verging on 1 cane wonders, but both are ownroot)
Viridiflora performs for me as well as any other china here. No big BS issues either, just a touch in the hot humid months. I have it on the protected side of my house because I was concerned with winter, but I think in the spring I'll move it out a bit before it gets too big. I think it will be able to handle our winter (hoping so anyway) I hate to admit it, but I've almost pulled it more than once when I was weeding in a hurry, thinking it was a weed LOL
Its "blooms" also vary quite a bit...here's a sample all taken from the same plant in 2011:
Tammy, it isn't surprising none of them have been great in your garden. None of them would attract pollinators in the wild, so they would die out without reproducing themselves. Nature doesn't throw away good genes on bad combinations. We keep the oddities, novelties, around through our un Natural Selection. You had to come all the way down to Hot Cocoa before a really GOOD plant could be had under a brown rose. Brown Velvet came close, but not as close as Hot Cocoa. None of the "blue" roses were as good (or as "blue") until Midnight Blue, Rhapsody in Blue and Blue for You. You can argue Reine des Violettes is bluer than any modern, but not reliably! Now, we need someone to recreate the gray and green colors on as decent plants as Hot Cocoa and Midnight Blue/Blue for You. Kim
Very interesting, Kim. That explains a lot in term of successes and failures in my garden. The idea that insects wouldn't identify it as a flower makes pefect sense, but I hadn't thought of it previously.
I had Brown Velvet for 3 years and finally shovel pruned it this year (other russets/tans that haven't done well are Tom Brown, Honey Dijon & Spiced Coffee). It just never grew or bloomed for me. Now on the other hand, Hot Cocoa does very well for me, and from what you're saying, makes sense.
Love Midnight Blue which I added this year! Rhapsody in Blue has yet to proove itself, but its partially my fault because I neglected it.
Now for the grey/greens...I'll patiently wait for someone to breed one successfully...hint,hint! ;)
Green and brown aren't difficult to come up with, actually. Gray is quite a bit more difficult, unless you accept Stainless Steel as "gray". While pollinators wouldn't identify the flowers as something to be attracted to, unfortunately, ants and aphids are ADDICTED to the greener petals. In the old garden (back in the 'good old days'), on the edge of the chaparral and in full sun with mid desert heat, I frequently had to "mulch" with Diazinon granules to keep the ants and aphids from infesting their petals. Otherwise, they would be loaded with black aphids and teaming with ants farming them and I could never cut them.
A big issue has been, until the Hot Cocoa days, these novelties have always been selected as budded plants. Many just aren't vigorous nor vital enough own root to make decent plants. You can root most of them, and you can get them to grow, but never become GOOD garden plants. Budded, most are a totally different story. Tom Carruth hit upon a remarkable combination with Hot Cocoa. It roots exceptionally easily; grows quite well own root and has all the vim and vigor you could expect. Unfortunately, many of his violet roses aren't as good own root as Hot Cocoa. They're gorgeous budded, but own root is another story.
I hope someone takes you up on your hint to create a GOOD gray rose. I raise quite a few rather green ones (accidentally), but nothing I'm using is likely to result in anything approaching gray. Kim
How do Victoriana, Edith Holden, or Iced Tea do own root?
Isn't Brown Velvet a pretty good grower? Kim do you have a picture of Kim's Cream?
Kim's Porcelain Rose can have green in the outer petals. Will post a picture of it but it's new to me so haven't had time to get a very good picture and there's no green to be seen. Kim has some better pictures showing the green..it's very charming and sweet.
Likes to bloom, is healthy and grows well. They often have cabbagey centers.
Thanks for the Viridiflora pics, Tammy. I can't tell if I'd like it..wish I could see it in person. Wedding Cake looks freaky sometimes and pretty other times. I don't see any green on Elfe, Campanula.
Victoriana is sort of OK own root, in the right conditions and climate. Edith Holden, like Iris Webb (which I still grow) is vigorous and grows well own root here. Brown Velvet in this climate was "suitable for pegging". My initial plant was imported from Harkness and on whatever root stock he used. I quickly discovered it rooted like a weed and became even more of a semi climber that way. In the mid desert climate, it was spotless, but I've heard quite a few reports of black spot on it from around the country. Iced Tea is Moore mini. It was selected own root and is only offered that way. Black Tea is a Japanese HT and marginal in many places own root. The few budded ones I've seen have been stunning. If I have any images of Kim's Cream, they'll be slides in the box of bazillians somewhere in the garage.
Thanks, Linda, that green in Porcelain Rose is one of the many things which attracted me to that seedling. I'm really liking that plant! Kim
I second the earlier post that said the mini Green Ice is a good one. Good sprawling plant with good disease-resistance and good rebloom--but the faint green glow on the white blooms is usually apparent only in somewhat cooler weather. When it first opens, the white blooms often have a faint peach glow to them. Excellent mini.
Green Ice sounds nice. I wrote to Burling this afternoon and though she acknowledged my email she is out checking to see if she has some of these plants in stock. I saw Green Ice on her list, Sheila MacQueen, Black Tea, Iced Tea, Brown Velvet ( out of stock). She has a lot of uncommon ones.
I am excited..put in a request for Sheila's, Iced Tea, Black Tea and Errinerung an Brod which I was sold on this spring. Black Tea looks flaming orange in some pics and very beautiful - blackberry, pomegranite, glowing embers in others. Even if it was not vigorous, it would be special just to see one of those sometimes. I guess it helps treat this addiction to have more in- person gardens to visit. Kim - could you post your picture of cut Porcelain Rose buds on the wire table? Is Edith Holden pretty or not? I noticed that the generic name that Harkness gave Sheila MacQueen is HARwotnext!
Green Ice was a tremendous little landscape type mini in my old garden. High heat with a bit of shade produced the greatest green tints. It never suffered any fungal issues, created a lovely mound of beautiful foliage and flowered incessantly in that garden. Green Diamond is even greener but no where near as healthy. The flowers never fully open. It is much more of a novelty. I'm glad Burling had maintained the Coffee Roses. Sequoia was the first to accept them out of curiosity all those years ago after I brought them through quarantine. So many had either originated here or had been on the market here, but were no longer available anywhere. I wanted to make sure if I ever lost them or someone else wanted them, we didn't have to import them again. Thankfully, Peter Schneider had also imported some (Greensleeves, Julia's Rose) and had shared them with Annie Laurie McDowell, who shared them with me. Iced Tea was a serendipitous discovery in Mr. Moore's breeding. Who would have thought that breeding could create those colors? He'd already raised many green ones from similar lines, so I guess it makes sense.
All of the darker russet roses are oranges which "blue" or purple with heat and age. In brilliant, hot sun and high heat, all of them are shades of orange. It takes cooler temps to cause them to age "blue", much like early dark red roses did, only with them, bluing was seen as a fault. You can cut opening buds of Brown Velvet (and probably all the others) and open them under refrigeration and they will turn "chocolate". Jocelyn is a bit different as it is usually pretty "scabby" colored, no matter what the weather.
Was Edith pretty? Edith Holden can be drop dead gorgeous! All of them can. Under the wrong conditions, they can also be as uninspiring and unattractive as any other rose, or other flower for that matter. Whether that is pretty or not depends upon your taste. If you are intrigued by the description "copper and parchment", which literally translates to "brown paper shopping bag", you'll love the funny colors. Iris Webb is a bit different still. Instead of the deep russet, it is more taupe, being more of a melon color with whitish reverse here when it's hot (as it is now!). The foliage is much better than many, being dark, glossy, almost holly-like and very healthy. The flowers are smaller, more double and in pretty large clusters. Edith was a "big girl", definitely a shrub, tall and broad in Newhall. A very husky, large plant.
The colors can be quite hard to place in a "gardening scheme", though. They don't reflect a lot of light, so they create a void, a hole, in the scene. I had the best success creating a dedicated bed for all of them, which was close to the entry to the garden so they would draw attention and be easily studied up close. The rest of the brighter beds reflected tons of brilliant sun, so they drew you in to see them quite well.
Here are the Porcelain Rose (LynPoO) buds you asked for. Kim
That's really lovely, Kim!
I wonder what I did wrong? I've had two Green Ice plants and neither one did well for me and eventually died over winter. :(
Thanks, Seil. You may not have done anything wrong. It could be the variety just didn't like your climate/soil/water. It was bred and selected in a hot, dry climate and did very well in the same. How would you compare yours to that description? Not all do similarly well everywhere, as you know! Kim
I love your Porcelain Rose Kim!
Thank you! It's been a nice plant, always in flower and completely without prickles or fungal issues here. There isn't any scent I can detect, but it doesn't bite and there are always flowers, so it isn't an issue for me. Kim
A new greenish one is 'Pitihaya Light' by Kordes.
FWIW, a Pitihaya is a strange-looking tropical fruit that's colored rosy pink and green (aka Dragon Fruit -- find a photo of one & you'll understand why). Pitihaya Light is a commercially bottled drink made from the fruit.
Here is a link that might be useful: Rosa 'Pitihaya Light'
I like Pitihaya Light..I wonder if it will be offered in the US.
um, well i know it is horses for courses but honestly, i just don't like them. Jenny's rose is another of these pink and greenish roses which was hastily composted back in the day because I just hated that skanky parchment look (and since my idea of flower arranging involves plonking a handful in a jamjar, i failed to appreciate the dull buff petals. In fact, anything which is described as a 'flower arranger's dream' is a no-go area for me (viridiflora - DIE!)
Well, I haven't seen any of them in person so I'm not sure I'll like them either, but think I want to see for myself. Pitihaya is such a strong green it looks like it has moss or algae growing on it. I don't think I like grey roses but maybe in person I would. The russets and tans appeal to me the most I think. Some of the greens are much more subtle than others..thinking Eden, which is very beautiful to me, and Kim's Porcelain Rose. What's that plant with green stalks..Bells of Ireland. I like that in arrangements very much so I think I'd like Viridiflora or the green zinnia, Envy.
If 'Pitihaya Light' isn't quite green enough for you, Kordes also offers 'Pitihaya' which has more intense coloring.
Seems as though roses showing green on the petals are currently in vogue in Europe, if Kordes's 2011 lineup of florists roses is any indication. Scroll down thru the photos on the link . . .
Here is a link that might be useful: Kordes Florist Roses
Oh, for sure. The green flower brigade is in full victorious flow (bafflingly), having seen off the black and white monochrome look (thankfully) so popular a few years ago.
As for those Kordes roses, Ranuncula has to be one of the nastiest things (cannot bring myself to call it a rose and going by the name, neither could Kordes marketers) - would not even defile my compost heap with such a monstrosity.
Ah yes, Bells of Ireland. Well, if you go in for all that Constance Spry stuff, then I guess it is a good plant to have but, since I can barely manage the odd posy of sweet peas, all that fiddling about with wire and Oasis is just not ringing my bells. Mr.Camps, in an attempt to discover his inner femme, once attended an Ikebana class, only to be roundly discouraged by cruel hoots of laughter at his lovingly assembled red pepper and twig array. We don't mention flower arranging in our house anymore unless the word 'divorce' follows soon after.
Companula -- I couldn't agree more with your opinion of Ranuncala. Let's hope floral arrangers and their clientele won't go ga-ga over it and instigate a clamor for Ranuncula-like blooms in an array of colors.
Breeding FOR vegetative centers . . . Is there a chance it could come to that?
Is Constance Spry stuff kind of like Martha Stewart stuff? I plonk too, Campanula, and never have impressed my garden club with my bouquets or wannabe arrangements. Flower arranging is so serious! I can't imagine trying to breed for vegetative centers either but I saw several offered on a florists' cut flower site. Taste in things can be contagious.
kind of, Diane. She was the 'grand dame' of flower arranging back in the fifties (when housewives did the flowers between cooking three meals a day and greeting their man at the door in lipstick and negligee with dinner on the table).
Oh, I am being unfair but she (Constance) did raise the whole flower arranging thing into a mini art form. She didn't fiddle her taxes though and I somehow doubt she ever made a cupcake.
Vegetative centers have been used commercially before Kordes' florist variety. In the late fifties to early sixties, Sequoia Nursery had a red mini with reliable vegetative centers. Mr. Moore said it looked like a "red bowl full of salad". They sold it to magazine companies who offered it as premiums for buying subscriptions. Those kinds of "faults" occur rather regularly in seedlings. I had one which threw rather attractive vegetative centers. I finally disposed of it due to lack of plant health. Kim
Here is a link that might be useful: Queen of the Desert
Oh, c'mon - breeders will breed for anything once they get that god complex going on.
Disagree - then explain to me the horrific 'munchkins' in the cat fancy dystopia - not to mention the increasingly insane world of the pidgeon fancier.
Oh yeah, Crufts and the bloody Kennel Club - not going there!
Suzy, you owe me a new keyboard. I shot coffee through my nose onto it after a resounding chuckle, reading that post.
I can't explain what draws me to the oddities in roses; I love a Double Delight as much as the next person, but I also love the roses that other folks deem a hot mess. All that considered, I think Viridiflora is a bit too much for even me.
I love russets, stripes, screaming orange messes, green tints, speckles, etc....but I can't bring myself to love vegetative centers. Hot Cocoa does that frequently for me. I also think that roses should look like roses and not another type of flower. If I wanted ranunculus, I'd plant those instead.
After reading all the comments, I had to scope-out Ranunculus again. It is pretty ghastly, isn't it? Vegetative centers are bad enough, but veggie centers AND stripes??? Yikes!
Personally, I don't want either of those characteristics in my garden.
I think I like green roses better than I'd like blue roses. I took another look at Sheila MacQueen pics to see if I overlooked it being an ugly oddity but almost all the pictures of it are pretty as far as I'm concerned. It's been fun to find out about these odd ones.
I really like the pale green. I have Green Ice in big pots near my entry, where there's only some morning sun in the area. Even in the heat, they look nice and pale green! They are still white enough to look like mini roses blooming, so I think it looks really cool :)
I really like the dark purple and pale green look. Dark salvias look great with Green Ice.
I haven't tried any other green ones yet.
Kim, where is your Porcelain Rose sold? It's so pretty, and I'm chock full of 'partial shade'... The only full sun I actually have is smack in the middle of my driveway, and I can't plant there, my husband would have a cow! I can't Google it, and I can't find it where HMF says it's sold.
Thanks Minflick. Porcelain Rose will be introduced by Long Ago Roses once she has stock built up of it. Kim
Here is a link that might be useful: Long Ago Roses
Thanks. Guess that means I have to wait a while, eh?
Very nice rose Kim, must be interesting to see others growing and distributing your creations.
Thank you, Kippy. Yes ma'am, it really is! It's also quite gratifying hearing from and getting to know people who are growing them and finding them pleasing in their gardens. No rose can be perfect, or even really good, everywhere. I'm told I tend to be too much of a perfectionist about my roses, not releasing ones which have turned out to be awfully good. But, I'm trying! LOL! Kim
Kim, thanks for posting the picture of Porcelain Rose. It's a very green and pink picture but the green comes from the sepals. You do have another picture or two of it that shows more green in the petals don't you? Could you post one of those?
Hi Linda, Porcelain Rose can vary quite a bit. Are these the ones you meant by more green? Kim
Yes, thank you.
That's really gorgeous, Kim!
I have a thing for roses that look like they are made out of wedding cake icing :)
Thank you Meredith, it actually does look like frosting! Kim
I used to think "green" roses were butt ugly. I especially remember when I grew ST. PATRICK (HT 1986). In the hot and humid summers of Tidewater Virginia it had bright lime green buds that were practically florescent. I shovel pruned him because I couldn't stand the color. However, as I've gotten older I've learned to appreciate green tones, especially when combined with delicate pink. PIERRE DE RONSARD (aka Eden, CL 1985) sometimes has green on the white outer petals. The contrast with the bright watermelon pink inner petals is very beautiful.
Image of Eden by Cactus Joe at Hortiplex
That's pretty. I think watermelon rind describes Eden's green tones too. I am interested in St. Patrick and would like to see the green buds. I got Sheila MacQueen last year..it came through the winter ok and is looking healthy.