disappointed with order of teas/chinas

poorbutroserich(Nashville 7a)September 13, 2012

Hello. I ordered from a nursery I shall not name at this time. I did NOT seek advice from this forum...Anyway, what arrived is defoliated, spotted, naked caned and just plain awful compared to what I received from Heirloom.

Where do I go from here? Do I complain? Just eat the loss and never order again? Are teas/chinas really this lousy looking????? Is it just this time of year? I would be ashamed to ship these out of my business.

Thanks.

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bluegirl_gw

I'd call them. Any reputable business owner WANTS to know if an order was received in poor condition. It could be their picker's fault, the packer, or the shipper.

That said, I *think* some ship defoliated, & often roses will drop a few leaves during the stress of shipping. But your description doesn't sound like a proper shipment--especially if you've had good results from Heirloom.

I'd photo the plants, call & email the photos if requested
hope you get a good response

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 8:37PM
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TNY78(7a-East TN)

If its the same one I've had problems with (I know you said you had a pending order with them before), if you email them, they will respond. I had an entire order refunded this past spring. Of 8 plants I ordered all were barely rooted, 4 died, one ended up being the wrong variety, and 3 haven't even grown an inch. I attempted to give them a second change this summer, but they just sent me a refund check without filling the order. It's a shame because I've heard good things about them from other posters (like I said, IF its the same nursery).

Tammy

Tammy

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 9:06PM
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Krista_5NY

I often receive potted roses from vendors without leaves, so the defoliation you describe sounds normal to me.

If the rose lacks a root system, that's cause for concern.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 9:17PM
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ogrose_tx

Fortunately, in my dealings with ARS, Chamblee, Vintage, Heirloom, Rogue Valley, etc. I've NEVER received roses that didn't look completely healthy and ready to go. Even when I got roses from Eurodesert (different scenario, I know)last year in June in our 105 Degree weather they looked pretty darn good.

Would definitely contact them!

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 9:38PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

FWIW, not only have we received plants from various vendors, sans leaves -- there are stages when plants we start here are without leaves.

That said, I'd a heckuva lot rather receive something that looked like an actual plant, so I can understand your dismay.

Jeri

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 10:13PM
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roseseek

Agreed, Jeri. You also have to take into account the incredible heat across the country at this time. The only plant material I've taken the chance with during this heat period was Fed Ex to Europe where it was guaranteed (and delievered) 36 hour service to The Netherlands and that was over Labor Day! I won't sacrifice anything to Priority or even Express Mail right now. The chances of them actually cooking in the box are just too great. Kim

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 11:20PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

It's a bad time, and if (as predicted) such conditions become more common, we'll have to learn to take such things into consideration.

Jeri

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 12:42AM
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Campanula UK Z8

Yes, sometimes, what seems like a lot of choices are no choice at all. In the UK, potted roses are sold but rarely as mail order because the cost of both the potted rose and the carriage is so prohibitive (we have not embraced bands or own roots here yet). Practically all mail order rose buying occurs between November to March when they are dug up, bare rooted from the fields.
Personally, I would only buy mail order plants as either tiny plugs or rooted cuttings because while the nursery may well fulfill their customer obligations, there is no guarantee that postal services will offer any priority for fragile plants other than stamping a note on a cardboard box. Having worked for the Post Officxe as a student, I recall with horror the jostling, bouncing and general mismanagement of parcels.
Poor, it would be a shame for your experience to be so unpleasant so at least contact the nursery and, once the annoyance has subsided a little, chalk it down to experience and decide to order roses during dormancy if you can.
Oh, have a good look at the root system - this is what we are really paying for, especially if they are not grafted specimens....I have, on many occasions, bought plants (direct from the nursery) which appeared to be nothing more than a pot filled with soil - no sign of plantage for months....but the roots were fine.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 6:57AM
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brittie(Houston 9a)

I think you also have to take into account whether the nursery is no spray and field grown, rather than sprayed for everything and grown in a nursery. I know my garden is starting to develop some disease issues due to the temperature being ten degrees lower (it's only 90, YAY!). I've only had one band actually die ever, and that was from Heirloom. As far as the nekkid goes... I don't know what you bought, but some teas and chinas ARE fairly sparcely foliated compared to modern roses.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 7:49AM
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roseseek

Those are also two very valid points, Brittie. There are great differences between classes in vigor, density of foliage, quality of foliage, how they appear as immature plants, etc. Once mature, Chinas and Teas CAN be as black spot resistant as some of the best of the moderns, but as small, immature plants, generally are not. They don't have the root, wood and foliage mass required to have sufficiently developed immune systems. Add being in an enclosed box with higher temps, higher humidity, lack of air circulation and those leaves are highly likely to spot, whether they've been sprayed or not. Kim

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 8:46AM
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poorbutroserich(Nashville 7a)

Thanks everyone for the observations. I am going to take a photo and email it to them. I will also inspect the roots as I am going to pot them up a size.
The nursery is "no spray" and I know that makes a difference.
This was not one of the bigger vendors.
I have GOT to LEARN to make a very small first order until I know the quality of the plant I'm going to receive.
Another rookie mistake.
Susan

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 8:58AM
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jaxondel

Sometimes when those much-anticipated roses emerge from the box, you just know that you've been taken to the cleaners.

About a month ago I received a shipment of Teas, Chinas and a Bourbon that fit the description of the plants that Poorbutroserich received. It was obvious that mine had been poorly cared for -- all were very small, either leafless or almost so, had brittle, quite old-looking silvery-gray "canes" and unhealthy root systems. The potting medium in which each was growing -- pardon me, in which each was PLANTED -- was host to a thick mat of bright green moss and extraneous weeds. Most of us know a grossly neglected plant when we see one. Of the five roses in the shipment, three now are struggling; the other two were DOA, no question about it.

Some folks are either too inept, too lazy, or have too many other irons in the fire to operate a nursery business. And I fell for one of them. Anyone who received those plants (including, I'm sure, the rip-off vendor who pawned them off on me) would have been angered and disgusted upon seeing what they had just purchased and paid to have shipped.

I currently have an order pending with the same vendor for roses that have recently been imported. I'll not be following thru on that order.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 10:01AM
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alana8asc

I wish the nursery would be named to save us all some future heart break, I don't know about anyone else but I would sure love to know. I do understand you not wanting to give a vender a bad name but for those of us on monthly income, we don't have the luxury of not receiving quality plants.I for one just love roses :) along with a couple of other annuals.So I spend my extra little money on them and would not like to order from a nursery not taking care of their roses. FYI I have a order placed with RVR, Burlington, and Longagoroses, the later two are cheaper seem like really nice people and I ordered from them based from reveiws on here, all three seem to be really nice via talking email, but the other two are just starting out, if I remember right from what I read on here, and wanted to give alittle support to everyone.My order will not be coming until spring, however, but I don't know if that makes a difference. Anyone with comments or advice on what I stated please feel free to leave it and to give me your experiences with these nurseries,

Thanks

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 11:17AM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Alana -- I've not dealt with Longago -- but I sure like what I see of what they are stocking.

I HAVE dealt on multiple occasions with RVR and Burlington.
I now RARELY buy roses, because

(A) we already have so many that both I and the rose could be invited to leave . . . AND
(B) The few things we ARE adding here are foundlings which we've propagated, and will share with others . . .

BUT I wholeheartedly recommend both of those nurseries, because I've gotten great roses from them, well-packed.

Jeri

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 1:09PM
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alana8asc

Thanks Jeri, that makes me feel better, I haven't ordered from any of them before so this will be my first time with all three of them and if I can figure out how, when I receive them in the spring I'll post some pics. The one thing with longago, she's just getting started and doesn't have green houses or anything yet, and she won't accept payment untill next spring to make sure they survive the winter, and I think that's very good and she's gonna stay in touch and let me know if any don't survive so I can get them elsewhere, she seems like a very nice lady :). It's good to receive the good remarks about them and advice. thanks

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 1:47PM
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jaxondel

Alana, Let me be quick to say that I've ordered roses from the three vendors you mentioned -- RVR, Burlington and Long Ago. In my experience, each of those nurseries have supplied fine plants, and I will not hesitate to order from them again.

(Incidentally, I HATE it when I make idiotic mistakes with the language . . . I feel those plants were palmed off, NOT pawned off. Good grief.)

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 1:54PM
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TNY78(7a-East TN)

Alana, I've ordered multiple times from all three vendors you mentioned and have been happy each time. The owner of Long Ago Roses, Linda, is a regular poster on here. She ships her roses wrapped in Saran Wrap, rather than potted, so just make sure you have something to transfer them into upon arrival. She also has weekly EBay auctions for her roses (user name longagoroses) and she has 100% positive feedback with almost 2000 feedback entries. Really great lady!

Tammy

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 2:55PM
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alana8asc

Thanks everyone for the positive feedback, Linda sounded really nice from her emails, and I did read on the site thats how she shipped so I'm ordering some pots to pot up her's and the ones I'm receiving from the other two venders as well. I think the lady from Burlington posts on here as well doesn't she? or I may have them confused. Thanks to everyone letting me know your experiences :)

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 3:04PM
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alana8asc

I just read where the poster poorbutroserich said they didn't ask on here about the place prior to ordering or I probly wouldn't have asked about those three venders, because I had already read all the positive feedback on here prior to ordering :) I hope your roses start leafing out and would love to see pics of what you received if you would like to post, hopefully happy rose gardening everyone!

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 3:52PM
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saldut

Maybe you could tell us where this vendor , and nursery, is located, without naming it... I am also on a limited income and don't want to order someplace where i don't get my money's worth... thanks, sally

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 4:55PM
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roseseek

There is quite a bit too much rush here to prejudge this nursery. They haven't even been notified that their customer feels something is wrong with their order and they aren't being given a fair chance to explain or resolve any potential issues. It doesn't matter one whit WHO the nursery is UNTIL they show their service. Anyone and everyone is capable of screwing up royally. It all boils down to how a problem is handled. That is presuming what is being described actually IS a "problem" and not a result of any of the several potential explanations provided in the posts above.

Let's see what their explanation and suggested resolutions are before any more suggestions to provisionally besmirch their reputation, shall we? You can't honestly determine whether or not you will actually get your money's worth from them until you find out why the plants look the way they do and what they suggest to do about it. It is entirely possible there is nothing actually "wrong" other than the types of roses ordered and the fact they were shipped when it was too hot to safely send them. Many Teas and Chinas are going to look wimpy and crappy until they mature. We're not even sure of what the roots look like yet. They won't mature in bands. Kim

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 5:42PM
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Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev

Hi poorbutroserich,

Could you possibly post some photos of what the roses looked like when you received them? Then people could compare with what they have gotten (of these or similar roses) and maybe give you a better idea of whether this is normal or above/below average.

Fyi, last year I started taking pictures of ALL plant orders I receive (not just roses). Pretty easy and cheap to do with a digital camera. I shoot the outside of the box, and then as I unpack. This gives an idea of the type of packing used, how well it survived shipping, how easy it is to unpack, how well the contents were protected, etc. Then I take pics of the plants inside. Over time this has given me some invaluable data, what's normal versus what isn't, who is doing a better job. Some companies have very effective and creative methods of packing whereas others are, well, rather dreadful. And interestingly enough, some of the "dreadful" ones also looked to have taken the most time to accomplish (as in labor intensive).

Melissa

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 5:59PM
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Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev

I forgot to mention something else in my last post. Regarding recommendations, it is a good idea to find out how recent the experience has been. Did someone buy from a nursery many years ago, have a bad experience, and so the evaulation is based on that negative. Has the nursery improved, or maybe even gotten worse! Same thing with good experiences. How long ago was this? While it is useful to hear how a nursery was doing ages ago, to me it is more important to find out how they are operating *now*. Maybe they are just as wonderful as ever, but this isn't necessarily the case.

I do check the site of a guy named Dave who has a garden (but not all that much) for ratings of nurseries and pay particular attention to current ratings. However, I use that site more for plants other than roses (basically for places from whom I've never ordered before) and this one more for roses. I have to say a mea culpa here, since I haven't entered more than a few ratings for nurseries on that site. I can and should do better.

Melissa

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 6:14PM
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alana8asc

HI,
Kim I hope you not angry at anything I said, I was just curious, and I also said I would love to see picks of how they look, and am very interested in what happens when the nursery is contacted, it could very well be alot of different factors so no jumping the gun, just wait and see. and Melissa you made some very good points, I love reading on here, ya'll are teaching me something new all the time, my daughter says every time she see's me on here(she just tuned eight, my oldest,) my mom sure loves roses don't she? anyways no offence and hope this turns out well :) I'll be waiting on the follow-up

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 7:03PM
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roseseek

Hi Alana, no, absolutely, NOT angry with or at anyone. We all have to remember that we can easily damage these nurseries and we NEED them all. There are too many who have already been lost with more to come. Sales are hard enough to make. Dealing with the state and federal agricultural idiots (yes, idiots) is tougher every day and makes less sense this week than it did last. Dealing with post offices and other carriers is an increasing pain.

I'm all for warning others about a sub standard business, as long as they have had ample opportunity to PROVE themselves sub standard. There really are possible, logical explanations for why the roses are described as they have been. I look forward to hearing that what was thought was disappointing was actually logical and all has been satisfied. I, too, look forward to seeing the photographs. I believe they could be quite educational. Thanks. Kim

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 8:05PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

It's a bad time, and if (as predicted) such conditions become more common, we'll have to learn to take such things into consideration.

Jeri

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 8:58PM
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alana8asc

Hi, no argument their ya'll are absolutely right!

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 9:04PM
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TNY78(7a-East TN)

I'll say that I do know what nursery this is after inquiring in a private message, and I had, what sounds like, the same issues with my order this past spring. The problem wasn't so much that they were defoliated (I know the leaves fill grow back); it was the size of the plants, and lack of health & root systems. These plants are sold as 1g plants and are smaller than some of my own barely rooted cuttings that are still in 6oz Dixie cups. I have never received plants even close to this small and unhealthy from other nurseries. The owner did refund my full purchase amount, including shipping, promptly and apologized for the problem. They did not however, accept an additional order after my initial complaint (I was trying to give them another try).

My issue is that, yes, the complaint was addressed, and the refund given, but obviously they haven't fixed the issue. I would rather give my money, like most other posters, to nurseries that provide a quality plant. There's no use staying in business if you offer an inferior product at the same cost.

I'll still leave it up to poorbutosorich to name the nursery :) However, in my post regarding the same issues, there are pictures and the nursery was named after a little prompting. The thread was called "Compare: What You Get for the Money!" If anyone is really curious.

I've ordered over 500 roses over the internet from probably 20-30 different vendors, and this is the only complaint I ever felt compelled to contact the nursery about. So I'm not a habitual complainer...promise!

Tammy

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 9:07PM
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henry_kuska

Another factor that has to be considered when dealing with any small business in today's world is: how reliable is the hired help? Unless the nursery is so small that the owner is involved in every aspect of the operation, there is a risk that he/she is not aware of employees taking "shortcuts" until they are communicated to him/her by the customers.

According to recent studies

Many college students cheat. http://education-portal.com/articles/75_to_98_Percent_of_College_Students_Have_Cheated.html
As a retired university faculty member I have no reason (based on my own experience and the experience of other faculty that I have discussed this with) to dispute those studies.

Here is a link that might be useful: Google search

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 10:39PM
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roseseek

This mornings news here in Los Angeles contained a report of a company comprised of out of work university professors who will, for a price, complete your educational requirements for you. They will attend your classes, take your tests and write your papers for you for fees. Nothing is surprising anymore and that is sad. Kim

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 10:51PM
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debnfla8b

Please tell me it wasn't Rose Petal Nursery in South Florida! I just ordered 3 from there. I know that isn't a large amount to some of you but to me it was a chunk of money. Shipping is unbelievable, it was as much as the roses cost!

Deb

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 8:29AM
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brittie(Houston 9a)

It probably is, and it honestly makes me feel terrible because I love them! I've ordered several plants from them over the past two seasons (most recently about three weeks ago) and they've all done so well. They DID arrive on the scrawny side, and I left them all in their gallon pots for quite a while to let them grow on before planting (the three I just ordered are still in their original pots right now). My sub-tropical climate probably helps quite a bit, in that we don't have many freezes and get plenty of rain. I tend to think of the plants as band sized, and tend to them with that in mind.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 11:03AM
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