New Buck Roses?

predfern(z5 Chicago)September 11, 2010

I just got the new Chamblees catalog in the mail and they list some Buck roses (without dates) that I had never heard of before.

American Legacy

Butterfly Magic

Calico Gal

Cinderella's Song

Cinnamon Spice

Dawn Star

Grandpa's Boy

Kathy's Find

Mary Susan

Summer Honey

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karl_bapst_rosenut(5a, NW Indiana)

Did you notice, although they're listed under Griffith Buck Roses, the description under each picture does not credit them as Griffith Buck roses. Those hybridized by him are described as Griffith Buck roses.
I can find no reference of them in any of my roses lists. The Official Registry and Checklist doesn't list them. Not being listed in that book keeps them from being exhibited in rose shows. They are doing a great injustice to rose growers listing these as Griffith Buck roses if they are, in fact, not so.
I've e-mailed Chamblees to explain and the ARS Chairman of the Registration Committee to verify or disclaim.

    Bookmark   September 12, 2010 at 12:21AM
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

Karl, would you keep us posted on what you hear? I take pride in growing Buck roses and am tracking those that do fine without spray. I am not ready to test roses that have not gone through the Buck testing.

Sammy

    Bookmark   September 12, 2010 at 7:17AM
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sc_gardener(zone 5)

Yes, I did notice those roses as well. They look intriguing. Maybe those are buck-hybrids. He does sell Ponton (sp?) roses and don't those contain some buck rose ancestries?

I plan on ordering from Chamblees this year, maybe I will try one.

    Bookmark   September 12, 2010 at 12:29PM
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professorroush(6A)

Yes, please, I'd like to know what you hear. The Iowa State website doesn't list these roses as Buck's either, although Chamblee's is listed as an outlet. Iowa State also notes that his breeding stock was destroyed upon his retirement...so I doubt anybody unknown is continuing unless they're line-breeding his creations.

Here is a link that might be useful: Griffith Buck posting on Garden Musings blog

    Bookmark   September 12, 2010 at 12:33PM
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karl_bapst_rosenut(5a, NW Indiana)

Could a rose hybridized by others using Buck roses as breeding stock be classified as Buck Roses? I don't think so. I suppose they could be called Buck types but not as Griffith Buck roses.
The fact the pictures of these roses on Chamblees website and catalog leaves out the Griffith Buck name indicates to me they know this to be true.

    Bookmark   September 12, 2010 at 3:36PM
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

I do know that Mark Chamblee is highly ethical. There have been disputes in the past about an Austin rose that Chamblees was in agreement with David Austin to sell. It turned out not to be an authentic Autstin in the opinion of many, but the contract won out, and Chamblees could legally sell it.

Last year's catalog says that the Buck collection has 90 varieties and Chamblees has 72. He said they would have more this year.

My newest catalog is safely sitting within a pile of papers, and is hiding.

Sammy

    Bookmark   September 12, 2010 at 4:00PM
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windeaux

It was precisely nine years ago yesterday (9/12/01) that'Quietness' bloomed for the first time in the greenhouses at Roses Unlimited. I don't know when Dr Buck retired from Iowa State, but he died in 1991 -- ten years before 'Quietness' arrived on the scene. The Griffith Buck Rose brochure issued by Iowa State's Reiman Gardens lists 'Quietness' as a Buck Rose, so the possibility exists that there are other roses of recent vintage that are recognized as Bucks.

I recall that Pat at RU received the plant material (seeds I assume) from Dr Buck's wife an/or daughter that eventually produced 'Quietness'. She also involved members of the Buck family in selecting a name for the rose.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2010 at 10:04AM
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lookin4you2xist(9b)

Very cool Windeaux.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2010 at 6:38PM
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sc_gardener(zone 5)

That "summer honey" looks pretty nice to me...

    Bookmark   September 13, 2010 at 8:03PM
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karl_bapst_rosenut(5a, NW Indiana)

Mark Chamblee contacted me today. He stated he's worked closely with Mary and Ruby, Dr. Buck's Family. They claim Dr. Buck gave plants that had not been inroduced or named to friends and family. Ruby and Mary have contacted these friends and relatives and collected cuttings of these unnamed, unpatented, unregistered roses. The family gave the roses names and passed them onto Mark who has introduced them as Dr. Grifith Buck Roses because they were hybridized by him. Because the parentage is unknown, they can't be registered or patented so anyone can propagate them but they cannot win awards in ARS sanctioned rose shows. These are the claims as given to me by Mark Chamblee. I tend to believe this but all we have is the Dr. Buck's family's word on it.
So, what do you think?

    Bookmark   September 13, 2010 at 8:31PM
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jaxondel

Disclosure of a rose's parentage is prerequisite to registration or to qualifying to win awards at ARS-sanctioned rose shows? Since when?

    Bookmark   September 13, 2010 at 9:07PM
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

I am anxious to find out if they require spray. I love Buck roses, and am very fond of Mark Chamblee.

Sammy

    Bookmark   September 13, 2010 at 9:30PM
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karl_bapst_rosenut(5a, NW Indiana)

jaxondel
You are correct about registering a rose. I quoted Mark without checking. My comment to him was regarding the fact these New Buck roses were not registered or patented. His reply was why they weren't registered or patented and I failed to check if his statement was correct. Parentage is desired but not a prerequisite to registering a rose.
The list of instructions and the form is linked below.

But, per the Handbook for Judging Roses, any rose not registered with the American Rose society must be be disqualified if exhibited at an ARS sanctioned Rose Show.
Registration can be checked by using the Official Registry and Checklist, its supplements, Modern Roses latest edition, the Handbook for Selecting Roses, International Registry of New Rose Varieties, New registrations printed in each edition of the American Rose Magazine and the Annual, and the Combined Rose List.

Here is a link that might be useful: Instruction for completing the registration form.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2010 at 12:53AM
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zack_lau

I've been to Rose Shows that have special categories for roses without an Approved Exhibition Name. Our local show has Class 35--Mystery Roses. (note--the class number is different for each show--this is just to help you find it in the rules referenced in the link below)

Here is a link that might be useful: CT Rose Show Rules

    Bookmark   September 14, 2010 at 8:46AM
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karl_bapst_rosenut(5a, NW Indiana)

Chamblee's e-mailed me today with a follow-up to our phone conversation on September 13. He repeats what he said then. I was asked not to include Mary Buck's personal contact information which I understand.

The e-mail from Chamblee's follows;
"The new "Buck" roses listed in our catalogue are a collection of Dr. Buck's seedlings that were given to family and friends that were never formally introduced. The parentage of most of these roses is unknown. We acquired cuttings of these roses from various locations in Ames, Iowa in an effort to save them from being lost forever. Mary Buck, Dr. Buck's daughter can verify the authenticity of these roses."

I have requested they send this information to the ARS Rose Registration Committee and they've said they will.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2010 at 4:09PM
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sc_gardener(zone 5)

Very exciting!

    Bookmark   September 16, 2010 at 8:54PM
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predfern(z5 Chicago)

Excellent!

    Bookmark   September 17, 2010 at 12:06AM
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ronda_in_carolina

I have been told by Pat at RU that it is true that Dr. Buck gave unnamed roses to friends and family. Cuttings have been collected so as to introduce these roses. Other than hearing that, I have no new information.

I will say that the most beautiful Buck I grow....and without spray in humid SC is Country Dancer. It doesn't have fragrance but the color is awesome. The center stays a deep medium pink and the outside petals fade a bit. The rose blooms have depth from quite a distance. I love mine and have had more comments on this rose than any other.

Ronda

    Bookmark   September 18, 2010 at 9:26PM
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

Ronda, Country Dancer isn't the only beauty in your garden. She's darling.

I am thinking about next year's orders, and would love to find more information about these roses. I would say that I can only grow 1/3 of the Buck roses without spray.

I fear that Dawn Star is from Prairie Star that needed spray.

Cinnamon Spice looks so much like Honeysweet or Distant Drums that I am afraid to purchase it.

Mary Susan is pretty, but I wonder what it would be like.

Dorcas is also pretty, but I am worried.

I wish there were someone who could give us some information. I don't like being a test garden.

Sammy

    Bookmark   October 16, 2010 at 8:04AM
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sc_gardener(zone 5)

OK, I have ordered one of the newer Bucks:
Cinderella's song
and these:
Earth song
Gentle Persuasion
Pearlie Mae
I had G.P. and P.M. before but I got poor specimens from a vendor and they did not make it. Both are lovely. So I have always wanted to try again.
And Earth song, because of all the recommendations on here.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2011 at 11:29AM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

Wow, I missed this thread last year. It would be great if some people other than sc gardener would try one of those roses and report. Or question Mark Chamblee about which are the most promising ones.

The story I remember about 'Quietness' was not that RU raised it from seed--it was cuttings from a plant growing in Buck's own yard and planted by him. RU got the cuttings from Mrs. Buck. 'Quietness' is a truly great rose that almost disappeared without a trace. If any of these other roses is worthwhile, it needs to be publicized.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2011 at 12:57PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Does anyone know if these have been registered yet with the ARS?

    Bookmark   November 20, 2011 at 3:34PM
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mgleason56(Michigan 5b)

Interesting that HMFR does have a listing for Cinnamon Spice with the following breeding info;

Carefree Beauty X Piccadilly

Also states this is from 1975.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 9:40AM
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Terry Crawford

SC_Gardner, I grow several Bucks...among them 'Gentle Persuasion, Pearlie Mae, and Earth Song'. Of the 3, 'Gentle Persuasion' has not been a very robust grower. It rarely gets over 1.5' tall. It gets winter-killed to the ground every year while the other two just shrug off the cold temps and just need a good haircut. I'm interested in your experiences with GP...maybe mine's just a poor clone.

You'll be very happy with the other two; they're bloom machines. Plan on giving them lots of space; mine easily get 5' tall by 4' wide. I grow clematis through them and even little finches nest in them. Great choices!

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 12:11PM
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Terry Crawford

'Pearlie Mae' blossom...

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 7:47PM
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alameda/zone 8

I just bought these newer Buck roses. Cant comment much on them as they have just been planted but I can say that American Legacy as of this Thanksgiving Day has loads of blooms on a plant that was set out 2 weeks ago and it is a beautiful hot pink color.. Butterfly Magic and Cinderella's Song are lovely and interesting colors. Dawn Star is gorgeous and has an interesting scent and a cabbage look to the bloom. Summer Honey is a beautiful yellow color but soft not glaring. Dorcas is a Buck rose I ADORE. Hybrid Tea type blooms, healthy bush and loads of blooms in all seasons. Malaguena is a show stopper today - covered in pink blooms. I really do like many of the Buck roses......Simon Estes is another good pink. Looking forward to seehing them bloom in the spring.
Judith

American Legacy
Butterfly Magic
Calico Gal
Cinderella's Song
Cinnamon Spice
Dawn Star
Summer Honey

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 1:15AM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

alameda--

Please put up a post next fall about how these roses have done, esp. whether any were disease resistant.

"Simon Estes" is the 1984 Buck rose 'Buckaroo.' Apparently Pat Henry thought it was a good rose rendered unsaleable by its name.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 9:27AM
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predfern(z5 Chicago)

It would be nice to know if any of these Buck roses are fragrant. Dawn Star sounds interesting. Hardiness is another issue.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2011 at 12:31AM
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alameda/zone 8

I will be happy to give a report next year when I see how these do. Only 3 I have not been happy with and wont replace - Blue Skies, Allamand Ho and Golden Princess [have a friend who wont replace the latter 2 either]. They just werent strong growers. I am going to put in another plug for Dorcas again....it is a tall, strong grower and big blooms that look like hybrid teas. Loads of blooms! Not crazy about the name [I think of "dorky"] but I sure love the rose. Bright Melody and Do Si Do are two other goodies. I live near Chamblees and they are into the Bucks so I love to try them all. Just got a Simon Estes, big and healthy, from the sale yard - beautiful rose! I am a big fan of the Bucks.
Judith

    Bookmark   November 26, 2011 at 10:14AM
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amaryllidaceous

I'm a bit late to this party, but I couldn't help mentioning: I've got a 1-year-old Dawn Star that I bought from Chamblee, and so far, it's terrific.

Very pretty loose globular pale pink flowers, fairly large, on a clean, upright shrub with healthy dark green foliage. I haven't noticed any blackspot or mildew, but we don't have huge problems with either in general.

Not much fragrance, which always surprises me--it _looks_ like it should smell good. But I love the shape of the flowers--old fashioned and a little rustic.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 11:38PM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

Calling alameda (Judith) and anyone who has experience with any of the new Buck roses introduced by Chamblees--please report!

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 10:02AM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

This ProfessorRoush post in his blog earlier this year may be of interest while we wait for updates from others.

Here is a link that might be useful: ProfessorRoush's New Buck Roses

    Bookmark   November 23, 2012 at 7:24PM
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jktx55(8a TX)

Just a foot note in regards to Chamblee' Nursery. I was there in the middle of October and they told me they were dropping EARTH SONG from their inventory. So if you want one I suggest your order it right away.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2012 at 11:45AM
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Karolina11(6b Central PA)

After reading your post, jktx55, I ran over to Chamblees and didn't even see it on the website. Will have to call Monday to see if there is anyway they still have it. Thank you for the heads up!

    Bookmark   November 24, 2012 at 12:14PM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

Wow, Earth Song is the best Buck rose I've grown.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2012 at 1:32PM
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

I used to think I liked Earth Song, but Quietness, Prairie Breeze, and a few others are much more reliable.

I hope those of you who have purchased the new varieties can comment on resistance to black spot. I had to remove far too many good Buck roses when I stopped spraying. I don't want to experiment anymore.

Sammy

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 9:48AM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

Regarding Earth Song, you can't get more reliable than a huge flush every six weeks for fifteen years, with winter hardiness and black spot resistance. For me, it produces roughly twice as many blooms as the excellent Quietness and is more resistant--but not completely resistant.

Sammy, I gather that Prairie Breeze is resistant for you. Is it noticeably fragrant?

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 11:07AM
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

Michael, Earth Song has not stood the test of time for me. Quietness, Prairie Breeze, Square Dancer, Country Dancer, Prairie Harvest have been great. Folksinger, Pearlie Mae are ok, but not as good as the others. Everyone loves Carefree Beauty, but my plants grow well, yet don't seem to be outstanding.

My Earth Songs are beside Spice, and in front of two louis Phillippe. I replaced one with another Earth Song, and it died this year.

Sadly, I do not have a sharp nose for the rose scents. I don't know why, but I do not seem to be able to get the pleasure of the fragrance as most people do. Therefore I just have to enjoy their beauty in other ways. Inside I can smell them, and can be quite allergic to them. But outside, walking by, I do not often catch the scent.

Sammy

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 2:28PM
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professorroush(6A)

Sandandsun, I've since posted individually on most of the roses in the blog post you referenced...if others want to search them by name on the blog (the search bar is on the right), there's some info on blackspot and growth habits now after a year's growth. Of the four in that blog you referenced, I think IoBelle or Queen Bee are the best, while Bright Melody is the fastest repeater. Folksinger was a little disapointing this year.

Can't believe Chamblee is dropping Earth Song...perhaps it's available so many other places that it just wasn't selling? Mine is completely trouble free, although I'm not fond of the shade of pink.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 2:36PM
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predfern(z5 Chicago)

My Earthsong (purchased from Sam Kedem) has survived for several years although a few years ago it didn't come back until almost July. I thought it had died. No fragrance that I can detect. I also have Prairie Breeze. Again no fragrance but huge blooms and very hardy. Quietness has nice bloom form and occasionally I can detect a little fragrance. I also have Griff's Red which is very hardy and has a little fragrance. Repeat not as good as the others. Honeysweet is my favorite with lots of blooms but still not much fragrance. September Song is not very impressive so far and Enchanted Autumn will probably not make it through another winter. Silver Shadows has been barely hanging on for several years (another Same Kedem along with Honeysweet) but it is very fragrant. Queen Bee and Distant Drums were not hardy here. For some reason blackspot is not too bad here and I don't spray so I can't comment on disease resistance. Many of my Austins do not get much blackspot either.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2012 at 12:36AM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

Thread link:

Here is a link that might be useful: Help me choose some Buck roses

    Bookmark   December 3, 2012 at 9:31AM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

professorroush,

Thank you for sharing the search feature; I had used the 'Griffith Buck' tag.
Also, I may be tardy to the party, but I never miss one of your blog posts.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2012 at 9:35AM
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farmerduck

professorroush -- I am too a devoted follower of your post. Never post anything as I don't have a facebook account or whatever account that is needed for posting. So I have been stalking for about 1 year now...

Mark

    Bookmark   December 3, 2012 at 10:34AM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

Well, only 5 or so years ago:

Here is a link that might be useful: What's your favorite Buck rose?

    Bookmark   January 3, 2013 at 8:58PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

I found the linked information from the Houston Rose Society very interesting.

Here is a link that might be useful: Houston Rose Society's Introduction to Griffith Buck Roses

    Bookmark   January 3, 2013 at 9:03PM
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

Sandandsun, it is always interesting to read information from a Rose Society. The roses they selected as roses that worked well in their climate need to be sprayed for fungus. It was so difficult for me to purge my garden of the roses that required spray. Some people say they do not spray often, or even once or twice a year. However, rose growers like me do not have success because I never spray anymore.

I like the nursery where I purchase most of my roses because they do not use spray. If they promote the roses without spray, my roses have a better chance. Still many do not survive.

Sammy

    Bookmark   January 5, 2013 at 8:39AM
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belle_va(6b)

I have several of these "newer" Buck roses. I absolutely LOVE Dawn Star. I mean I truly adore her. The flower is just exquisite- more loose and airy than Quietness (which I also love). I purchased Dawn Star from Chamblees in the Spring (2012)and by September it was 4 feet tall. Very upright with a nice shape. Did not need spraying in my garden at all. I also have Simon Estes (from RU) which someone mentioned above. I do like it- the flower is fatter and plumper (and darker in color) than other pink Bucks in my garden. But I will say that even with rigorous spraying, Simon suffered some blackspot.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2013 at 8:43PM
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michaelg(7a NC Mts)

"Simon Estes" is the older Buck rose 'Buckaroo' renamed by RU for marketing reasons.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 10:09AM
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