How nervous should I be replacing roses?

simcan(z5b/Toronto)October 27, 2010

I have several old not-so-great hybrid teas that I am pulling up in the early Spring and giving to my folks for their garden, and I have ordered 14 bare-root roses from Pickering for early Spring delivery. Some of there are going to be going right where the old ones are coming out and I have read that roses sometimes just die if planted in a spot formerly occupied by another rose.

How nervous should I be? Should I, for example, dig out a big hole and fill with amended soil from somewhere else (filling that spot with the old rose soil)? Or is this a rare problem and not worth thinking about?

The 14 roses, by the way, are 3 iceberg, 3 cinco de mayo, 1 rosa hugonis, one blanc double de coubert, 2 lavaglut, 3 lovely fairy and 1 mutabilis.

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karl_bapst_rosenut(5a, NW Indiana)

Don't be nervous! Take some Prozac, Zanax, do yoga, or something else to control being nervous.
Even though a causal factor has not been found, this problem has been reported in Europe where the soil has been gardened for hundreds, if not thousands of years.
It isn't a problem here in the Americas. You might want to amend the area with some horse manure, compost, or other organics to enrich the soil but you don't have to replace the soil.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2010 at 1:53PM
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henry_kuska

There is some scientific evidence that suggests that rose roots do give off a growth inhibitor.

Title: Growth inhibitor accumulates in the nutrient solution of closed system rose cultivation.

Author: Sato, N.

Authors affiliation: Shizuoka Agricultural Experiment Station, 678-1 Tomioka, Shizuoka, Iwata, Japan.

Published in: Acta Horticulturae (2005), 697(Proceedings of the International Symposium on Soilless Culture and Hydroponics, 2004), pages 511-516.

Abstract: "The circulating soln. was collected and analyzed for its nutrient concn. Three types of solns. were prepd. for the bioassay. One was the circulating nutrients soln. Activated charcoal was added to second soln. The third soln. was prepd. to the analyzed formula of nutrients soln. using distd. water. The rooted cuttings of rose were planted in each soln. and incubated in the growth chamber. The rate of change of fresh wt. before and after the incubation was biggest for the prepd. soln., which does not include the circulating soln. The fresh wt. growth rate was smallest for the circulating soln., and the results for the activated charcoal treatment was between them. Since the activated charcoal does not have a sterilization effect, it is possible that the growth inhibitors accumulated in the soln. during the circulating cultivation of roses. "

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A rose society article: http://www.marinrose.org/replantdisease.html
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There was a special symposium just on the subject of "replant disease:
http://www.actahort.org/books/363/index.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: link for rose society article mentioned above

    Bookmark   October 27, 2010 at 2:12PM
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

When you take out the old rose, you will be punching around the area to get as many roots as possible. You will have a hole in your yard. Fill in the hole with new soil, then mix it with the old. You should always have a pretty large area ammended so that you won't have a "swimming pool" effect in your yard. (all the water going to that area and drowing the rose)

Don't be nervous. You are going to have roses you have chosen, and you will be happy.

Sammy

    Bookmark   October 27, 2010 at 6:26PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

I've planted new roses in old rose holes umpteen times and have never encountered a problem. Of course I add potted soil and amendments but don't get rid of the old soil and it's always worked, despite what the literature may say. On the other hand, before I moved here, roses had not been grown in this soil as far as I know, and that might make a difference.

Ingrid

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 7:29PM
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Campanula UK Z8

hello simcan, rose replant disorder is common throughout the UK and I have never dared to put it to the test.Several rose nurseries recommend planting bare root roses with a mycchorhizal treatment, but also either replacing as much old soil as possible or planting in a cardboard box in clean loam. I am not at all certain that there is any soil assay which could determine the likelihood of 'rose sickness' but there surely would be local horticultural knowledge to be tapped.On the other hand, RRD means something completely different in the US (horrible) but replant disorder is not a problem. Hard to say which is the most malign. Still, Sammy is quite right - despite all that, if you plant roses, you will be happy.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 5:11PM
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