Love and Peace vs the original Peace?

mike_in_new_orleans(9a/ coastal LA)November 5, 2011

I've nearly decided to get Peace next spring. It is easy to find, from many sources. But I've been intrigued by what I've read about Love and Peace, which I think I would have to mail order this fall or winter. Does anyone here grow both? Can you tell me how they compare and what are the relative strengths or weaknesses of each? Does one grow bigger than the other? I know Love and Peace is not a sport of Peace, rather an descendent. It will cost me more due to shipping costs. is it worth it? Does it really bloom more continuously than Peace? I've got Chicago Peace already, and had the original Peace many years ago. If I can only get one this coming year, which should I go for? Please don't say "both," because of course that's what I want, but I don't have room --never mind the budget.

What to do...


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Hi Mike, of course I can't speak to the performance of either rose in your climate, but in mine, Love and Peace is the hands-down winner. It has none of the "issues" original Peace has, period. Each decade, the bar for performance is raised dramatically, and in the half century plus between them, there were MANY improvements.

I have a friend who at her old house in Santa Clarita, Ca., along an exposed, windy, hot and very sunny drive, grew an alternating hedge of Henry Fonda (budded), Ingrid Bergman and Love and Peace to separate her yard from the neighbor's. Love and Peace and Ingrid Bergman were always five feet tall, Henry was about a foot shorter. Love and Peace flowered continuously and had dense, heavy foliage from top the ground, performance Peace struggles to approximate here. I'm not trashing Peace. It IS a beautiful HT when and where it's happy, and when it's given what it requires to perform to its potential. Here, Love and Peace is a "plant and forget" type rose. It has the health, vigor and performance required to succeed when provided the barest minimum any rose could hope for.

I know some will disparage it for being "garish" and I can understand that compared to softer, "duller" colors, but this rose has all that's required here to be a great landscape and garden rose, without requiring coddling. If what you REALLY want is Peace, and you don't begrudge its quirks, go for Peace. If others report Love and Peace performs well in climates similar to yours and you'd prefer one which does its thing whether you interact with it or not, plant Love and Peace. The highest compliment I can give a plant is to call it a "weed". Here, Love and Peace IS a weed! Kim

    Bookmark   November 5, 2011 at 6:29PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Just in case you want to look it up at helpmefind, you should probably know that the HT is "Love & Peace." If you look up "Love and Peace," it will refer you to a mini.

I have been growing Love & Peace for about 6 years now--it has lovely blooms. However, I didn't find it quite as disease-free as the California grower did. The first 3 years or so, it would get a severe attack of blackspot immediately after completing each blooming cycle. I'd have to spray once or twice and then everything would be fine until the next blooming cycle ended. I should add, however, that I don't remember major BS breakouts post bloomin in the past couple years, but sometimes there would be some more limited BS problems after each blooming. Not a big problem now--but Love & Peace almost got the spade several times during its first few years.

I haven't grown Peace in years--because it had lots of BS problems. It has, however, some of the most beautiful blooms of any rose I've ever seen. But I won't grow it again--because of the BS problems.

I also used to grow Chicago Peace--which I loved also. Can't remember what happened to it. But I just wanted to point out that if you were thinking of growing Chicago Peace and Love & Peace close together, I think they might clash.


    Bookmark   November 5, 2011 at 7:49PM
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mike_in_new_orleans(9a/ coastal LA)

Thanks Kim and Kate! It's helpful to hear these differing experiences with the varieties. Kate, I did look up Love and Peace on Helpmefind, with the "and" and it always pulls up both the listing for the miniature and the hybrid tea, even though the HT is listed just as you said, with the "&" symbol. From what Kate says, I am sure to have to spray for either rose to ward against blackspot, though it sounds like Love & Peace isn't quite the blackspot magnet that Peace has been. I grew Peace as a kid in the 1980s in western Washington (also blackspot country) but not nearly as much so as the Gulf Coast. When I planted one again in Mobile, AL in the mid-1990s, the first year it was covered in blackspot. I almost gave up on it, but instead I just decided to spray very diligently with ortho funginex and give it a year on probation before tossing it. The change was amazing. It's second year, it was MUCH healthier and bloomed much better as a result. Since I've been using Bayer Advanced on all my roses the past several years, none has had a significant problem.
I have the mini, Bees Knees, which seems in coloring to be much like Love & Peace, brighter and "more garish" than Peace. I'm afraid what I really want is a rose that acts like Love & Peace but with soft and subtle coloring like Peace. I remember Peace needing a significant span of time between flushes; bloomed in quite distinct cycles. I prefer continuous blooms. But on the flip side, Peace when it did bloom tended to produce a lot of blooms at once, and they last impressively. Hmm...I'll have to give this more thought.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2011 at 1:12PM
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Mike, I've had both for several years & I prefer L&P. L&P is more resistant to BS in my garden than Peace but then I don't have the humidity you have in NO. 2 reasons I prefer L&P are, I like its color better & its blooms last longer. Being in z4, I don't always get good Fall blooms, but last year Mother Nature was kind to me. Below a picture of a pic of a L&P bloom that was close to 7" across when it opened & being a Fall bloom it has its most intense colors.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2011 at 8:46PM
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mike_in_new_orleans(9a/ coastal LA)

Beautiful Picture! Does the color intensity vary much with the weather as some other roses do? If so, that might be good. Some year-round variety.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2011 at 11:04PM
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The colors are not as intense during the warmer summer bloom cycle for me. I was just thinking---can you get the intense coloring of my Fall bloms down South? Being up North, the angle of the sun is much lower in the sky than what you have & my days are cooler which is what causes the intense color of my Fall blooms. Also I get more hours of sunlight on my Summer blooms than you which may fade my blooms more (my son lives in Atlanta & I know that my longest summer days are at least an hour longer than his). Than again maybe I'm thinking too much.....

    Bookmark   November 8, 2011 at 12:12AM
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reg_pnw7(WA 7, sunset 4)

I've grown both, on the west coast. L&P has no fragrance. Sure, it's healthier and more vigorous, and better flower substance, and I like it and recommend it, but - no fragrance. And I didn't like how the flowers aged, color-wise. The colors were too distinct and separate, not blended like they are on Peace.

Peace is beautiful. Finicky, blackspotty, but the epitome of rose beauty, and reasonable fragrance.

I don't have either, currently, but if I were to get one or the other, it would be Peace, not L&P.

    Bookmark   November 12, 2011 at 12:17PM
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Here in SoCal, you can almost think of L&P as a yellow Double Delight as far as the coloration is concerned. It takes heat and light to generate the strawberry wash over the yellow. The hotter and brighter it is, the redder the wash. Cooler and more overcast and the red is less intense, just as it is on DD. No, there is no fragrance, but for general garden/landscaping use, it is a significantly superior variety over Peace. It all depends upon your use, requirements and choice. Kim

    Bookmark   November 12, 2011 at 1:09PM
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Tuggy3(9b NorCal)

I was given a Love & Peace on its own root. It has produced a total of three blooms in three years and is still very small with few canes. I have an opportunity to buy a high quality budded bareroot L&P locally. I like the rose but I'm wondering if it's the own root thing on this particular rose. It's in a mixed bed of own root and budded roses that all grow like crazy. It gets plenty of light. Dump it and buy a new bare root or just give it another year?

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 11:45PM
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Since we're taking peaces (smile), I must mention Pink Peace. Pure and fairly bright pink, super healthy, and the most delightful and quite strong fragrance that smells like fruit loops (in a great way). I love this rose. I purchased Peace and Chicago Peace this year and look forward to having them in my garden.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 9:02AM
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seil zone 6b MI

Original Peace is sort of iffy. I think the billions of clones of it down through the decades have weakened it some what. I remember my Mom's as being big, strong and healthy with huge blooms. Mine is not any of those things. It still can pump out an occasional beauty though!

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 10:13AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Oh, seil--that's lovely! I personally think Peace is the most beautiful rose in the world--but refuse to grow it again due to it being a blackspot magnet.


    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 10:23AM
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Agree with Kate. My garden will never be without Peace. Have purchased many over the years and they have all died. LAst one was from PAlatine and it is doing beautifully...fingers crossed. Flaming Peace is nice, too.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 2:15PM
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For me, Peace, hands down. Since you spray (like me) you won't have any problems. If you get it on Dr Huey, put it in a 25 gal. pot with good potting soil and it will get big and beautiful (5x5) in two years. If you get it on fortuniana (K&M), put it in the ground and get out of the way. It will be HUGE in 3 yrs. Whatever you do, DON'T prune it hard. Just shape the bush up year after year. For some reason it will croak after 2 or 3 years if you prune it hard in the deep south. The blooms are drop dead beautiful. I will probably have Peace and Chicago Peace in my garden as long as I can garden.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 2:56PM
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Ditto everything that Ken said . . . Peace (and Chicago Peace), hands down.

I have to admit to an irrational bias, though: I loathe the coloration of Love & Peace, and have the same aversion to all other roses with that glaring, unsubtle combination of yellow and deep rose pink or red. Sheila's Perfume and Dick Clark are a couple of other yellow/rose blends that force me to avert my gaze.

Peace and Chicago Peace are two varieties that I have to spray routinely to keep BS at bay. Oddly, Chicago Peace is more BS-prone in my garden than its parent. Even more oddly, Climbing Peace has always been practically disease-free for me. Seems to me that the sporting phenomenon sometimes produces changes that aren't immediately obvious.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 11:29PM
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mike_in_new_orleans(9a/ coastal LA)

I ordered Love & Peace months ago and should be receiving it from S&W in two weeks, along with Veterans Honor. So many people talking about varying experiences with both Peace and Love & Peace got me thinking. It's not only climate and soil conditions that determine the performance of a rose; I do think rootstock variety, or lack of any rootstock, makes a difference, especially in some varieties, and Peace is one of those. In my experience it does much better on Dr. Huey than on its own roots. I had one on Dr. Huey that I know for a fact had Rose Mosaic Disease, and it still was robust and a very good bloomer; a blackspot magnet, yes, but still a good performer once I found a good fungal treatment. The Chicago Peace I have had for about 3 years now is a cheap Walmart body-bag rose that came on a stunted, half-rotted looking rootstock. I bought it on a whim. Almost pitched it after the first year but decided to give it the full 3-year probation period. This past year it looked more respectible, not thick-caned and vigorous like I remember Peace but still as vigorous as some lesser roses I've grown. Fair amount of bloomes, though, and they're fat and gorgeous, so it has won a reprieve. S&W has always sent me vigorous, quality bareroot plants in the past, so I am anticipating a quality Love & Peace coming. Guess I'll find out. Someday I will get Peace again. It's a scentimental and historic rose, even if it does require careful protection from blackspot.
The mention of Pink Peace got me thinking about its striped sport; what was that called? "Candy-"something? I've never been able to find it from any mailorder nurseries anywhere; wonder if anyone knows of it being on the market from anywhere? It's a shame so many nurseries have gone out of business; we've probably lost a lot of rose varieties as a result.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2013 at 9:17AM
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Candy Stripe. Vintage lists it but not as currently available.
What a gorgeous photo of Flaming Peace--I snapped it up from Vintage last fall--it had been a long time since they listed it as available. Can't wait to see a bloom

This post was edited by bluegirl on Sun, Feb 3, 13 at 23:36

    Bookmark   February 3, 2013 at 11:17PM
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mike_in_new_orleans(9a/ coastal LA)

Thanks, bluegirl. I'm puzzled, though, Vintage announced prominently a while back that they were no longer going to be a retail nursery. Now they are again? I've only ever purchased from Vintage a couple of times, mostly because it's costly on shipping to purchase just one or two roses, and usually the one's I want from them have not been available at the same time to allow an order of 4. I will probably never pay their custom root prices. I do appreciate, though, what they represent for the rose hobbyist community. Can't think of anyone else out there with the variety of hard-to-find varieties.

I understand Pink Peace to be an offspring of Peace, rather than a sport. I wonder if it too does much better on rootstock vs. ownroot.

As for Peace vs. Love & Peace, what tipped me toward the latter at this time is that I'm more inclined to go for roses I haven't grown before rather than ones I have. It's that ol' curiosity thing. Plus, supposedly, L&P is a more continuous bloomer. I'll always be fond of Peace, though, and will grow it again someday.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 12:06AM
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harryshoe zone6 eastern Pennsylvania

I would chose Peace. Very simply because a Peace bloom is like no other. And its got history. I find it no more difficult than any other HT. Just much more rewarding!

    Bookmark   February 10, 2013 at 6:00PM
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Vintage was still going last I heard. Got several bands this November--they were MUCH larger than bands I have ordered for spring delivery previously. Yeah, I really appreciate their maintaining old varieties. Haven't ever paid for custom propagation--I just check on a regular basis to see if any on my wish list are available--like Flaming Peace was this fall. They always have plenty of choices I'm happy to have to round out a box & make it worth the shipping price. (TX also has a phytosanitary fee to cover, too, grrrr)

Pink Peace has huge, very fragrant blooms. Can't say whether it would be better for you as own-root or not. I haven't had Love&Peace but Chamblees carries it & it seems very popular.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 6:43PM
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