New consulting rosarian manual, Nov 2, 2012

henry_kuskaDecember 7, 2012

Apparently a new edition of the ARS Consulting Rosarian Manual is now available (Nov 2, 2012).

"2012 Consulting Rosarian Manual
The 2012 Consulting Rosarian Manual is now available, to members only, as a downloadable PDF document.

To go to the members only section, password protected, click here.

To purchase copies of the 2012 Consulting Rosarian Manual,visit our shop."

If anyone has a copy, could you post what it states about Rose Rosette Virus?

Here is a link that might be useful: ARS notice

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amandahugg(SS19 CA)

Oh, Henry. Your sense of humor and joie de vevre gives us all a lift in our rosy lives. What would we do without you!.....lots.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2012 at 1:06AM
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dan_keil_cr Keil(Illinois z5)

The only problem with the download, unless your copier prints on both sides you will have 65 pages! I'm ordering mine!

    Bookmark   December 11, 2012 at 5:04PM
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I did not keep my old version so I cannot do a line by line compare.

However, the rose rosette section leaves me disappointed. I feel the present information is too brief and in some aspects out of date. Some of this could be overlooked if the article provided some internet links to where either more detail or possible future updated information could be expected to be found.

The general rose virus information (mainly a Table titled "Virus Descriptions"), I feel, is considerably out of date. For example for Rose Spring Dwarf no mention is made of the fact that it has been determined to be caused by a virus and is spread by aphids.

Rose Mosaic appears in the first table. It also appears in a specific "Rose Mosaic" section. Rose Mosaic also appears in another table (titled "IPM OF ROSE DISEASES"). There does not appear to be much of an attempt to coordinate the information in the 3 sections. For example the IPM table states: "No adverse effect on flower production has been reported." while the specific Rose Mosaic section states: "Plants infected with virus usually are slower to develop in spring than healthy plants and usually produce fewer good quality blooms."

    Bookmark   December 11, 2012 at 8:47PM
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Henry, you seem to be on top of the latest information about rose rosette. Why not prepare an article and send it to them for that section, and include that you will send updates as you hear of them so when the manual 'goes to print' it will have current info. They may be grateful for a dependable source of information.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2012 at 10:29PM
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lucille, a potential problem with having only one person have that responsibility for each disease is that there is always a possibly that his/her view would not be an accurate description of the available science.
For this reason, I recommend that a subcommittee be given the responsibility of preparing a "consensus" report.

The standing committees of the American Rose Society are listed at:

Of these the Consulting Rosarian Committee and the Research Committee seem to be the closest to draw on to develop
groups (subcommittees) that could be given the responsibility to see that the latest information on each rose disease is available to the consulting rosarians. (One could also ask university researchers in the particular field to be consultants of the subcommittee (called public service)).

    Bookmark   December 12, 2012 at 12:15AM
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Then ask if you can help build the subcommittee or head it up. This disease seems to be a real threat, and without research, information and publicity, it is conceivable that the days of roses could be numbered.

    Bookmark   December 12, 2012 at 8:38AM
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lucille, unfortunately, the 2012 revised manual has already come out. It would of been "nice" if a general announcement concerning a request for comments on a first draft had been distributed first.

For example the manual says nothing about possible confusion with herbicide damage. Yet someone who appears to be a consulting rosarian made the following comment in an earlier thread:

"I'm concerned about this slide show. Its liable to send newbys into a panic and cause them to rip out perfectly good roses as soon as they show signs of new growth. Many roses will normally have reddish new growth. Emphasis should be made that reddish new growth is diagnostic only if it is not normal for that variety of rose. Many roses will have very vigorous new growth that is very thorny compared to the older canes. Many roses throw excessivly vigorous basil canes that look very different than exsisting canes. Experienced rosarians know what is normal for a rose and abnormal growth stands out like a sore thumb. The same cannot be said for those who are less experienced. Any talk about rose rosette disease should emphasize that anyone who is not sure if their roses have rose rosette disease should contact a local consulting rosarian through their local rose society for a diagnosis before panicing and ripping out roses. Thats what consulting rosarians are there for.
Round up damage will affect new growth and if the rose normally has reddish new growth, the roundup damaged new growth will be red too."

H.Kuska additional comment:

If an electronic first draft had been distributed to at least the consulting rosarian member list, this person could of alterted the committee to this point (which I also feel is very important).

Here is a link that might be useful: herbicide comment

    Bookmark   December 12, 2012 at 12:59PM
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"It would of been "nice" if a general announcement concerning a request for comments on a first draft had been distributed first."

Yeah, I have the impression thats not how the ARS works. If ARS committees worked in a more collaborative environment, its unlikely the Modern Roses publications would have perpetuated the reams of mistakes contained therein. I wouldn't hold out much hope of ever being invited to submit input on this topic.

IMO, because of questionable information on topics like RRD, the rosarians manual is barely relevant in this age of information sharing. I have a copy from about ten years ago and I read through it once and never looked at it again: way too much "iffy" information that wasn't worth broadcasting. Maybe it has improved, but I doubt I will ever bother to investigate. I mean, why would I??

    Bookmark   December 12, 2012 at 1:12PM
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karl_bapst_rosenut(5a, NW Indiana)

Insead of knocking what may be wrong with it, why not look at all that's right.
When asked to recommend a good "how to" book by new rose growers, I suggest the Consulting Rosarian manual. It's a good book for basic info. There is no rose growing book that addresses the needs of all growing zones. There are a few that address a particular zone. Most are generic to the U.S. This means, local experienced CRs have the best knowledge regarding local rose growing recommendations and problems. This experience and knowledge is not attained by growing roses for one or two years, but rather growing them over many, many years. Even now, though, when replying to question from the ARS webpage, I advise contacting local CRs or societies for advice in growing zones other than mine, and I supply links to those local sources.
At least the ARS is trying to get the info out.
I was just asked why I don't post anymore. Part of it is the negativity on this Forum.

    Bookmark   December 12, 2012 at 2:23PM
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Unfortunately, some of you may not have access to the document under discussion. See the link below as to what appeared in the October, 2011 issue of the Topeka, Kansas local rose society newsletter concerning Rose Rosette Disease (and attributed to the Consulting Rosarian Manual).

I do not know if that information is from a draft of the new edition or is from the old edition. (As far as I can tell it is word for word the same as what appears in the new edition.)

Here is a link that might be useful: link to newsletter

    Bookmark   December 12, 2012 at 5:41PM
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anntn6b(z6b TN)

If anyone cares, a paper from three or four decades ago, from the California Plant people proved that rose viruses reduced the bloom production by at least ten percent.

Secor, G.A., Kong, M, and Nyland, G. 1977. Rose virus and virus-like diseases. California Agriculture.

Lucille, you might want to take a look at some of the RRD literature that's in the bibliography in my e-book about RRD. You might also want to glance at the multiple chapters and the FAQ, and then compare with the paragraph that Henry linked to, just to see how incomplete it is.

The information is out there, but getting people to read the original papers is danged hard.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bibliography up to 2010

    Bookmark   December 13, 2012 at 3:47PM
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I should of mentioned that besides the paragraph that I linked to earlier from Kansas (which was the same as the information in the 2012 Consulting Rosarian Manual about Rose Rosette Disease) a single picture of a rose rosette diseased plant is included in the 2012 manual. That picture is the same one pictured at the following website:

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   December 13, 2012 at 8:14PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

I console myself with the knowledge that the rose world is in transition. Rose Trials have transitioned to testing roses without chemicals to keep them healthy. The All-American Rose Selections organization has announced its last winner we're told. It is rumored that the ARS has elected a forward thinking president. These are major modern changes that have not come about suddenly.

Anyone with any experience or interaction with bureaucracies knows that change within such organizations is slow, difficult, and often nearly down right impossible.

But sometimes change is required and THEN, it STARTS to happen.

The virus that causes Rose Rosette Disease has only just been isolated and identified after decades of infection. And the disease is still not widely understood although it is increasingly widespread.

It may be that learning about and understanding of RRD will change too as it becomes increasingly necessary.

Hopefully before 'The Masque of the Red Death' crashes the garden party.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2012 at 11:02PM
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